Would Calzaghe-Kessler draw box office in the states if all four belts on the line ?
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Would Calzaghe-Kessler draw box office in the states if all four belts on the line ?
Hasnt JC lost his IBF belt and hasnt Kessler lost his WBA belt ? im sure i read it somewhere! but even if it wasnt for a belt its the biggest fight imo to be made at 168 for a very long time.
They may have done. Not sure but it would be interesting to see what reaction the fight would get in America. Do they rate Calzaghe ?
Yer he gets a lot of talk on here but they dont seem happy with a manfredo fight. I understand why but i do feel the JC-kessler fight would get a lot of attention imo more than Lacy-JCQuote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
I'm from the states, and I think I can speak for a majority of Americans in this regard, Calzaghe gained a lot of respect by tearing up Lacy, but since then it has been lost, by his fight choice. While Americans recognize Peter Manfredo, it's not like anyone here thinks he is worth a fight with the champ yet.
JC DID give up his IBF title to fight a "Contender Runner-up"
He should have fought Glenn Johnson, he's backed out of fights with him 3 times now.
Kessler still has the WBC and WBA titles and will be defending both against Librado Andrade
Thats exactly what us Brits are getting fed up with. His refusal (since the Lacy fight) to fight anyone decent. A fight with Hopkins, Wright or Jermaine Taylor. Thats what we want to see. Even agreeing to take on Beyer or Kessler would be great. I've got a feeling that he wont though. I like Calzaghe but he is fustrating. At least Hatton wants to take on all comers.
Beyer is past it imo he is a backwards step. I would prefer to see JC-Carl froch because Carl is becoming a real prospect and when JC has gone i really think he will shine! but i also feel that JC should fight Kessler and get the hell outa 168 and got for Clinton woods who imo is the man to beat at light heavy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
Id rather see him fight Beyer then fooking Manfredo or Bika!! but Your right, i fight with Froch would be great to watch for us brits, i wish he would just take on Kessler, and see what happens there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Calzaghe: Kessler would be a very good fans fight...then a fight with an american "name" fighter would be ideal. Calzaghe has made a mess of things. Manfredo is not deserving of a shot. Not by a long shot.
JC gave up his IBF title to fight Manfredo. But Kessler still has the WBA belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
I think the course for the confussion is that Kessler has been made WBA "Superchamp" after getting the WBC belt and therefore the socalled "regular" WBA-belt will also be in play (Mundine-Soliman).
Like their system or not. But Kessler is still the REAL WBA-champ.
I think us Brits feel the same too mate - I am losing patience with him tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
I don't think so. The SMW division is relatively new and has never had a great American champ that wasn't just passing through on the way to heavier divisions, so no one really cares about it. WW, MW, HW--those classes all have history, so you don't need an American star in a championship fight in order to draw an American crowd. Not the same for SMW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
But that's still the fight that should be happening--in Europe.
How can Manfredo be unworthy of a title shot (which he is) but not Froch? Froch hasn\'t done much to deserve one himself. He\'s just as unworthy as Manfredo isQuote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
This be one of the fights Id definitely would want to see, and I think cal would win by ud. Saddly I don't think it's going to happen anymore, and if cal takes another manfredo type fight after manfredo I'm just going to give up on him
Very true. They're both unworthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotten Apple
Well Froch IS more deserving according to the WBOQuote:
Originally Posted by Rotten Apple
Here are their rankings
1. Robert Stieglitz <==== Has stepped aside a few times to let others fight Joe
2. Denis Inkin
3. Allan Green
4. Carl Froch
5. Lucian Bute
6. Jeff Lacy
7. Peter Manfredo, Jr.
8. Cristian Sanavia
9. Juergen Braehmer
10. Jean Pascal
11. Markus Beyer
12.Vitali Tsypko
13. Jean Paul Mendy
14. Hector Velazco
15. David Gogiya
why is carl unworthy? he is beaten everybody he has fought. he is a tough fighter and he has awesome ko power. he is a british undeafted fighter and deserves a shot against his fellow country man.Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdane
Socalzaghe has said that he refuses to fight hopkins, wright or taylor? after lacy he was lined up to fight johonson but had to pull out with a hand injury - make fo that what you want. Hopkins was busy with tarver, taylor and wright were set to fight eachother and neither were ready t move up to SMW at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughesd
bika was the only one 'worthy' of a fight at that time, he had been in the ring with beyer when the fight got called a NC due to beyers cuts (bikia was winning on the cards at that point)
I do agree calzaghe NEEDS A BIG FIGHT
Manfredo was ranked number 3 in the world at one point and its the fight HBO want to see calzaghe in... i would much rather calzaghe fight hopkins wright or taylor but thats not going to happen just yet...
Hopkins said if he didn't get the oleg fight he would go for calzaghe, yet hes gone for RJJ
Taylor said before the ouma fight he wnated calzaghe after the actual fight with ouma, now he has been linked with the contender winner (strangly came under almost no critesism for it either!!!)
Wright; there was anarticle about wright posted on these forums where he said he was thinking about moving up to fight calzaghe - nothing came of that and right now i done think wright even knows what his plan is.
Calzaghe needs a big fight next, i think after manfredo he lands a big fight and does well people will give him the benefit of the doubt for manfredo,if he doesn't fight taylor, wirght, hopkins or the winner of kessler and whats his face he will ve thought of as the next sven otte...
ones welsh, ones english; froch should be looking to to secure the european belt before claiming his right to a world title shot. by the by, this is from warren i know, so always hard to believe it; but i think i read it in his sunday write up in the NoTW, he said froch was offerd a shot to fight calzaghe when he was making noise about it before, but went all quiet when warren made them a written offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
I feel Carl is improving yano. I agree the Euro belt will give him that leap but he should surely get a shot at a 168 crown soonish! Rob mccracken will help him there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
By who? Boxrec? LOL. No respectable ranking system has ever put him anywhere near the top 3. He's currently 10th in the Ring rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
His last opponent was ranked 127 (or there abouts) at SMW by boxrec if i remember correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Now i'm no fan of Boxrec-ratings but... 127!!! pleeeeeeease ::**
Plenty of other undefeated ppl at SMW who fights REAL opposition.
And the countryman-thing means feck all in regards to being worthy.
Carl Froch? Why is Ryan Rhodes busy? I rather see Manfredo over an overrated character like Froch. Shit I rather see Mario Veit crash and burn (actually no I wouldn't) for the 3rd time than see a 29 year old so-called prospect who's proven nothing get a title shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Boxrec means shit mate. This was a preivsulsy arranged grudge match. Dodson i think was the mandatory to his crown as well. Fair play he was ranked 127 and he looked like it when a world ranked fighter put him on the canvas with a well placed body shot!Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdane
I think Carl Froch has achived a lot more than manfredo imo. Why dont people see that Carl Froch is a big name at 168? he would beat most people in the top 10 imo. Just you wait and see ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I think people outside of the UK think he is a 'big name' at 168, but only because the devision is lacking with talent. Froch is 29, going on 30 and is a British champion... if he was a real big talent he would of fought for/won a European belt, defended, vacated and fought and won his way to a mandatory right now. When i think of big name, i think of people who Have been knocking about at world level for some time, froch has/sill is defending his British title, when if think of world prospects i think of a of a youngster tearing through the world devision, someone hold a domestic title around the age of 22-26 not 29! or someone who took a medal at the Olympics at a young age;Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Froch doesn't to me, fall in any of those category's.
ive seen most of frochs fights and ill tell you he is a class act id like to see him fight kessler in the next 12 months because thats a fight froch will win, anybody who's seen kessler fight could see he's clearly b-level but he can punch. joe calzaghe is on a diffrent level to all these guy's any fighter listed at 160-168-175, the u.s public like to hate on joe because he aint fought over there why?? he's fought and beat most top u.s fighters who realy if there good enough should be winning no matter where the fight is whether its in the uk the u.s or on pluto. i know for a fact that calzaghe offered to fight a primed roy jones stateside at 175 but roy didn't want to know and after hopkins won the middleweight tourny in 2001 he was offered a carrer high purse at that time of $4m to fight calzaghe in england but it was refused also. joe will fight twice more after manfreido jnr and personaly id like it to be stateside against taylor and hopkins 2 fights he wont have a problem winning.
I'm surprised you think Carl couldnt make the top level at least! In his last fights he has stopped his oppantants and looked good in doing. As for the belt situation it aint all about who has it, come on look at Manny pac he aint the world champ but he still is the number one! I think if Carl has a busy year wins his next fights etc why doesnt he get a world title shot? He will have one of the best records at 168 and I feel he can be a champion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
froch v kessler is a real possibilty in the next 12 months.
Your right that Calzaghe did offer Jones a fight. But the reason it was turned down was because Calzaghe was actually stupid enough to ask for the bigger purse. Jones was the number 1 P4P fighter at that time. And Calzaghe actually taught he deserved more than him.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygunn
where did you get this info from because ill tell you its a long way off the mark. steve collins tried to get a fight with jones too for a couple of years and when calzaghe offered hop the fight hop was to get $4m and joe just $2m.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
And? What do Collins and Hopkins have to do with Calzaghe asking for money than Jones?Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygunn
i asked where you got your info on calzaghe and jones dont try to avoid the question.
Waiting,,,waiting...waiting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
FFS the guy is 29 and has achieved next to nothing.
So you've seen something in Froch that makes him this fantastic otherworldly fighter. Something that noone outside the UK has apparently been able to see.
Same time you've seen Kessler and been able to quickly conclude he's nothing but a B-level fighter.
Please remind me to not ever trust your judgement on anything boxing-related. ;D
ive also seen kessler and would have to agree with the guy ho said he's a b-level fighter, ive seen him fight about 10-12 times and he's got descent pop but lacks the skill's of calzaghe. kessler v froch would prob be a good fight.
first point when did i ever say that Kessler was a B-level fighter? Kessler is outstanding bro i really like him a lot. second point people do talk about Carl out of the UK he is a decent fighter and you wait and see bro stick him with anybody in the top 10 and he will most likely beat them. ANd what is the mattter with my boxing judgement? being honest its probably better than yours!Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdane
YES IT WUD
but i think joe has lost he IBF and kellser has lost some belt as well WBA I think.
I think the fight would still draw box office crowds, but if all four belts were on the line it would just make it better.
I think JC wud win as he is the better boxer and puts in consistant, excellent performances, like against lacy.
its a shame he doesnt get more recongnition for his acheivements, all he got was 1 award
http://www.boxingdaily.co.uk/calzagh...sh-admiration/
but i get the multi million dollar pay days make up for it...
Whatever Joe Calzaghe is, it's definitely not "consistent." He wins, which is the most important thing, but he can look pretty average when he's up against pretty average opposition. Would you really call his performance against Bika "excellent"?Quote:
Originally Posted by gamesam43
And again, I don't know if you're American, but I am, and I'm pretty sure (for reasons I've already given in this thread) that this would not be a big fight in the US--it would make FAR more money in Europe, where people actually follow this division.
Have to admit i made a clearcut mistake about the Kessler B-fighter comment I mistook one of tommygun's posts for yours. I apologize for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
With that my comment about you're judgement ability is also out of line. Apology for that as well.
Doesn't change how i feel about Froch. Don't understand how he can be considered more worthy or talented than a number of prospects at SMW, especially considering Froch is not a young fighter. Also seems clear from my perspective that this high regard for Froch is an almost exclusively british thing.
No probs bro! I feel that Carl has came on a lot and because im British i feel i can see the way he has improved if you no what i mean? ive watched Froch for years now and other the time he has imrpoved a lot. I feel with his training he will improve every fight, and i feel that will lead to a world title shot in the long run!Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdane