he is not an all time great and is vastly overated. Floyd Mayweather has also beat no all time greats. in his last four bouts ricky hatton has won world titles of defending champions.
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he is not an all time great and is vastly overated. Floyd Mayweather has also beat no all time greats. in his last four bouts ricky hatton has won world titles of defending champions.
You seem like a Hatton Fan too so gonna give ya cool click,
Be interesting to see this mayweather De la Hoya fight...would love to see Mayweather beaten because he would then b forced to take on fights such as Hatton Cotto etc. to try secure his legacy...
mayweather wins hands down. deloya is too slow. i think hattons last four fights have been impressive no matter what anyone else says. he's stood up to be counted and won. yearts ago i thought hatton would crumble once he met a world class fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I think it's going to be a close fight.
If you look at Floyd's record, can you name a single fighter on their who De La Hoya wouldn't have beaten just as easily? I can't see any....
DLH is not an all-time great and yes, he is overrated. I don't think he's "vastly" overrated, but slightly overrated. You could make an argument that DLH went 0-3-1 in the Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad and Mosley I one fights. DLH's legacy will be that he was a very very good fighter who was willing to fight the best of the best year after year, and that's very impressive in its own right.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
You're right, Floyd Mayweather has not beaten an all-time great.
If your last sentence is meant to imply that Ricky Hatton is somehow better than DLH and Mayweather, then you're out of your mind.
:sadclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
you do realize that PBF beat Hattons next opponent twice already.
Great post, yes I agree with everything you said. You have found a home here. Was your forum name Realitycheck prior to sweetpea.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
It is unfortunate that we have to use our opinions to judge which of these fighters is truely the best....Only when the bell rings we will no, and it becomes less and less likely every day that the bell will ring for hatton/mayweather
dela hoya also got robbed in 2nd mosley fight and should of won and i think he edged tito fight and i had whitaker fight even i think quartey won vs dela hoya though by a roundQuote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Well once 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'
The judges won the first fight for Mayweather.
I feel DLH won the second Mosley fight and that's why I did not include that fight as a loss. Although you could make an argument that the undeserved loss in Mosley II was balanced out by the controversial victory over Felix Sturm. I've never seen the Sturm fight in its entirety so I can't make a specific comment on who won.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
In the end, many people would say (including myself) that DLH has been on the winning end of more controversial decisions than the losing end.
There's actually a new method. Some boxing fans have tried actually using their eyes. THe concensus is, Mayweather is way better.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
CC.....I agree. It's no secret that I'm not a fan of either Floyd or Oscar but to say Hatton is better is insane. I don't recall the last time Either of the two got chased back down in weight after just one fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Well it all depends on what 'YOU' consider great......Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Heres how I see it.....
Barry McGuigan is a Hall of Famer. (which I don't agree with)
Heres how he stands as a fighter.
Record: (32-3)
He beat Pedroza for his WBA title defended it twice then lost it, and that's it.
So if what Barry did landed in the Hall of Fame which equals greatness the heres how I see it for ODLH.
John John Molina
Record: (52-7)
He beat LaPorte for the vcant WBO belt. Then beat Lopez for his IBF belt, he defended that belt once then lost the re-match to Lopez. He won the vacant IBF belt and defended that belt 7 times. He then moved up in weight fought ODLH and lost. (And it's not like Molina grew old in 3 months) Molina then WAAYYY past his best days beat Tackie.
Genaro Hernandez
(38-2-1)
He was undefeated (32-0) when they met and Genaro was still in his best days.
He beat Landonas for the vacant WBA belt and defended it 8 times. He moved up in weight and lost to ODLH. (Again it's not Hrndz. grew old in 6 months) Hrndz. then wen't on to Azumah for his WBC belt and won he defended that belt 3 times before loosing.
'Santa Tokyo' Miguel Angel Gonzalez
(51-5-1)
He was undefeated (41-0) when they met and Miguel was still in his best days.
He beat Rocha for the vacant WBC belt and defended it 10 times. He then moved up in weight and lost to ODLH.
Pernell Whitaker
(40-4-1)
Crap! Do I really have to list all of his accomplishment?
Inducted to the IBHofF this year.....
Ike Quartey
(37-4-1)
He was undefeated (34-0) when they met and Ike was still in his best days.
He beat Espana for his WBA belt he then defended that belt 7 times. He then fought ODLH and lost.
So you see measuring ODLH opponents by the IBHofF (which equal grateness) standards and the 'in their peak' standard that you've set here ODLH has fought and beaten those kind of fighters...... You just gotta look closely.... And the same way hes beaten them they have beaten him; (In paper) Tito, SSM, B-Hop.
See above and this isn't even mentioning his stats (titles, defenses etc. etc.)Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Fwock! >:mad I should have read your post completely. Instead of typing all that up to realise this is coming from a Hatton fan. Now I'm confused. ???Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
The title on your thread talks about ODLH not beting fighters in their peak as you say.
You then go on to say "In his last four bouts ricky hatton has won world titles of defending"
Curious to know which 'GREAT' fighter has Hatton beat in their peak?
Kostya Tszyu
(31-2)
P4P Light Welter King. Defende his titles 7 times.
and....... ??? ummmmm!!! and ummmmmm :( ..... thats it.
I'm one of the few who thinks that Tszyu was NOT past his best days. Hatton was the better fighter that night. But to mouth of ODLH and then praise Hatton ius absurd and don't make no sense....
Anything else you'd like to discuss? :)
So, bloody what?!Quote:
Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'
I dont know what you are arguing here...
DelaHoya has his record and it stands against some very good opponents...questionable decisions aside, he deserves his status...
I do think he is past it though, and will get shown up horribly by Floyd....
I agree CC #837Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I think Mayweather will totally dominate and i agree that Oscar is past his best by a long shot. Hope he proves me wrong but i don't think he will. A KO win over Mayorga doesn't quite cover up how he lost 2 of his previous 3 fights and was very very very fortunate to get the W against Sturm who i fought did enough to win.....with one arm. I think this will be close to being a complete shutout for Mayweather.
Click right back, mateQuote:
Originally Posted by ono
Im not Mayweather fan really, but that boy has got skillz and an old Oscar isnt going to be able to negate it...
Yeah, De La Hoya or MAyweather will never be an all time great like Hatton. He's just beat too many champions. I mean DLH may have fought over twice as many defending champions in over three times as many weight classes, but yeah he's never faced anyone as good as Maussa Urango or Collazo.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Whilst I'm not sure about the Hatton analogy,Oscar is more known for his selling prowess and his losses than his wins. He will be in the hall of fame and deserves it for what he has done for our beloved sport but an all time great...no way.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Yeh and throw in a few gift decisions as well while your at it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Seriously i hope he whoops Mayweather but i can't really see it.
On the day of the fgiht,I'll be one of Oscar's biggest fans but I just don't see how he is going to win. Oh how I'd love to see that beautiful left hook land and KTFO Floyd.
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
When I think of Oscar's career, the first thing I think of is his marketability and popularity.
Oscar had a huge following right from the beginning of his career, and therefore he could make just about any fight he wanted, because opponents knew they'd make more $$$ fighting Oscar than against anyone else.
Because of his popularity, Oscar could have made big money fighting against anyone, even a bunch of stiffs. The reason I will always respect Oscar is that he used his popularity to fight the best fighters on the planet, when he could have just sat on his fame and not taken chances.
He is not an all-time great in terms of boxing skills or wins and losses, but he has been a great influence on the sport and I think he has a chance to make an even more important impact as a promoter.
Surprised that one went over your head ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who cares what the record says!!
All Oscar's controversial fights that could have gone either way only mean one thing...
he is as good as his opponent!!
Oscar was as good as Whitaker 147, Quartey 147, Trinidad 147, Mosley 154, Sturm 160. Its just a shame Kostya fought Phillips because if he didn't Tzsyu 140 would also be on the list.
Incidently who has Floyd got on his list? oh thats right... Castillo 135. ;D
i hate floyd and oscar is one of my favorite fighters....delahoya win in decision!
CC.....Even as an Oscar basher, I gotta agree with that statement about him being at least good enough to be in the same ring as those guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo
Be that as it may, at leats Oscar said "what the fuck" and gave it a shot vs Mosley, Trinidad, and Hopkins....fucking middleweight Bernard Hopkins at their peak!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
Floyd has NEVER come close to taking those risks!
Oscar did beat Castillejo, Vargas, Campas, and Quartey at their best!
well he beat clifford hicks ,one of the great southpaws of our generation :P
Hattons a natural 140lb fighter who stepped up to the plate and beat a natural 147lb fighter. He then admitted he wasnt a natural 147lb fighter and went back down to 140lb and outboxed urango. dela hoya moved up in weight because his body grew naturally as did mayweathers and they could no longer make the weight. I beleive mayweather could still make 140lb and should box hatton there. Mayweather shouts his mouth of all the time about hatton. But the fact is hatton has more appeal than mayweather and has not let fame change the person he is. Mayweather says he'll box hatton in england. They should box @ the millennium stadium in wales and ricky would kick the over hyped bums backside back across the atlantic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx730NY
He didn't do bad number on Chico either did he.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairdoo
No offense, Lyle. But you can't SERIOUSLY believe Oscar beat Vargas and Campas at their best. Fact is they were both damaged goods by the time they fought Oscar. DLH had ample opportunity to face either of these guys, particularly Vargas, before they got destroyed by Tito. Vargas would've fought Oscar for FREE. But the Golden Boy wisely chose to wait until after Fernando got "ferociously" KO'd by Trinidad. Come to think of it..... the same can be said about Mayorga.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Hmmm.....
I think the same can be said for vargas..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Im not entirely sure about campas..He was undefeated when he fought tito.. Something crazy like 58 -0 50 something ko's.. I dont feel the tito fight damaged yuri like the tito fight damaged vargas..
They was two different fights .. And plus vargas had fought better competition leading up to tito then yuri boy had.. Just yuri had fought many more.. Mostly in mexico..
Depends how you weight it up i guess...
Although I sort of agree... did you see the Tito KO of Campas? I think the ref could've stepped in there a couple of punches sooner. That last punch to the head almost sent Campas' head sailing into the seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Campas had a long, illustrious career; and I thoroughly enjoyed watching his fights. But the Campas that Oscar fought was "over-the-hill", while Tito caught him as an undefeated, rising star.
And that's what some of Tito's and Oscar's common opponents had in common. Tito caught them undefeated, near or at their peak, and KO'd them impressively. Oscar got them a few years later, either damaged or on the downhill side of their careers.
I have no trouble agreeing..I still give oscar credit for great competition..Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
But he did get a couple of tito's hand me downs..
oba carr.. Yuri boy campas.. Vargas..mayorga..Macho Camacho..( Hate caMAcho..!)
But it was also to do with the fact that these fighters were still part of the good competition when oscar arrived at welterweight because tito fought the best and oscar arrived a little late to claim the same..But they were still very good comp..
Peace
Much respect, and I agree with you about 95%, Tito_BHB. But you see what I "bolded." That's where I differ a little bit. I think it wasn't all "arriving too late" as much as some self-preservation and incredible savvy and sense of timing from the Golden Boy. Again, he could've met Vargas before Tito did......... IF, he really wanted to. Vargas never made a secret of wanting to face the Golden Boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
you lost me on your last sentence, yes its fair to say oscar and floyd never beaten an all time great well as for oscar he never beat an all time great at thier prime, he did beat jcc in 4 rounds and fought everyone around, as for floyd(...........)that sums it up,Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE
boxing fans are so funny, cant refuse to mention thier favorite fighter somehow and give them credit, oscar and floyd may have not beaten an all time great at thier prime, but hatton well his even worst, i mean way worst. hatton struggle right from the get go of leaving his mamas house, and he refuse to leave 140 in fear of losing, he stays there to pick on the smaller guys that even gives him a hard time.(scuuurrrrdddd,....turrrd)
floyd and hatton do have undefeated records, but hands down oscar fought ten times better oppenents then those two. and oscar still manage to reach the statues of boxings golden boy.....something floyd and hatton can't even dream of.
I do think oscar is a bit overrated but there is no doubt he is a top fighter nd he has fort far superior opponents compared to mayweather nd hatton opponents put together nd as i hate a floyd i would love oscar to ko him but i no thats alot easier said than done cos his skills r amazing nd to be honest i can c him outboxing odhl but i am truly hoping floyd gets knocked out. Nd a couple of things from wot i read in some posts i dont think theres a problem with hatton staying at one weight is a problem at least will there r fights there nd alsoi think if floyd fort kostya therer would be a gd chance he would get stopped.
Ah!! come on guys no one want's to quote me.... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
I just wanna have fun...... :(
If you want to get technical as far as who has never beaten a great boxer at their peak, you could say the exact same thing about Roy Jones, Joe Frazier, Lennox Lewis, Winky Wright, Joe Calzaghe, Larry Holmes, , Kostya Tzsyu, Jack Dempsey, the list goes on. The problem is that kind of thinking is being way too picky.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEANIE