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No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Very good :) and Shane did great tonight...but he's falling back into the habit John David had taught him not to do(coming in and shooting back with your hands down) I don't like how he got caught with a straights and counter hooks when he was rushing in. I hope Jack works on it..but he never has before I don't expect him to do it now, so Shanr better fix that.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
Most of his comments are absurd.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07. I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
Most of his comments are absurd.
yeh thats true.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
Winky Wright. Though Shane didn't beat him.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
Winky Wright. Though Shane didn't beat him.
so whats your point?
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
Winky Wright. Though Shane didn't beat him.
Winky Wright 10 times better than Tszyu? I think they both are in the same echelon of greatness.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
I think Tyszu is overratted to be honest. Plus he was old, out of shape, had only fought 3 times in 3 years...go figure..
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya, or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
I think Tyszu is overratted to be honest. Plus he was old, out of shape, had only fought 3 times in 3 years...go figure..
He fought Hatton on the back of a brilliant performance, destroying Mitchell in three rounds (I would think that's evidence he was in pretty good nick), started a big favourite against Hatton, and was rated in everyones P4P lists including P4P 3 by The Ring magazine (for an overrated fighter he sure fooled a lot of people). ;)
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07.
I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
I'll agree that Mayweather would beat Shane, but I truly believe he'd be Mayweather's toughest opposition out there right now.
I think you need these three things to beat Floyd.
1. Match Floyd in hand speed (or at least come close)
2. Sustain a quick pace for 12 rounds
3. Have a good enough chin to take Floyd's straight rights.
Of all the guys out there right now, Shane's the only one that comes close to having all three of those things.
Gone are the days when bullrushing Floyd was the gameplan to beating him.
As tough as it sounds, you gotta outbox him and catch him with sneak shots when you can.
And if you don't have all three of the above listed things, it's easy work for Floyd.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07.
I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
I'll agree that Mayweather would beat Shane, but I truly believe he'd be Mayweather's toughest opposition out there right now.
I think you need these three things to beat Floyd.
1. Match Floyd in hand speed (or at least come close)
2. Sustain a quick pace for 12 rounds
3. Have a good enough chin to take Floyd's straight rights.
Of all the guys out there right now, Shane's the only one that comes close to having all three of those things.
Gone are the days when bullrushing Floyd was the gameplan to beating him.
As tough as it sounds, you gotta outbox him and catch him with sneak shots when you can.
And if you don't have all three of the above listed things, it's easy work for Floyd.
I disagree that Floyd can't be bull rushed. Goneindeed are the days where it was thought Hatton or Baldimor could bull rush him but someone naturally bigger and stronger will still have the best chance against in my opinion. Margarito remains a threat, as is De La Hoya.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
You roll your eyes JimBoogie but what had Tyszu done in the last 5 years exactly?
He beat Ben Takie in a 12 round decision, Tackie ALWAYS loses to any name fighter, he lost his next two after Tyszu to Hatton and Mitchell, has subsequently lost to Lazcano and fought to a draw against Contender 'star' Norberto Bravo. Big deal.
Tyszu knocked out Jesse James Leija in 5, again Leija gets knocked out by ALL the big names, De La Hoya 2, Mosely 9, Gatti 5 A Nelson 6, again really not a big deal.
And he beat Sharmba Mitchell in 3 another fighter who always gets knocked out by the big names, Mayweather 6, Williams 5, Stevie Johnstone 9, Leaveander Johnson 8.
The last big win for Tyszu was in 2001 against Zab.
His team have since urged him not to come out of retirement becuase the y believe he's shot.
Beating Tyszu wasn't that big a deal. A good achievement yes, but Tyszu was on the slide, it's fact.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07.
I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
I'll agree that Mayweather would beat Shane, but I truly believe he'd be Mayweather's toughest opposition out there right now.
I think you need these three things to beat Floyd.
1. Match Floyd in hand speed (or at least come close)
2. Sustain a quick pace for 12 rounds
3. Have a good enough chin to take Floyd's straight rights.
Of all the guys out there right now, Shane's the only one that comes close to having all three of those things.
Gone are the days when bullrushing Floyd was the gameplan to beating him.
As tough as it sounds, you gotta outbox him and catch him with sneak shots when you can.
And if you don't have all three of the above listed things, it's easy work for Floyd.
I disagree that Floyd can't be bull rushed. Goneindeed are the days where it was thought Hatton or Baldimor could bull rush him but someone naturally bigger and stronger will still have the best chance against in my opinion. Margarito remains a threat, as is De La Hoya.
If anyone, De La Hoya could rush Floyd and have a shot. But i don't think Oscar would fight him that way.
And I'm not sold on Margarito one bit yet.
He could rush Floyd all he wants but his hand speed just isn't fast enough in my opinion. Plus, he loops his heavy shots quite a bit. Floyd would be able to roll his shots even the times Margarito does land.
I really think speed is the big big thing one needs to beat Floyd.
I gotta point at Judah - PBF as a blueprint to beating Floyd.
If Zab Judah was able to fight Floyd like he did in round 1 for all 12 rounds he could've had a real legitimate shot at winning. You gotta admit he looked good in the first few rounds. But he fell apart.
And if anyone could do what Zab did in round one but sustain it for 12, it's gotta be Mosley.
I'm still putting Mosley as Floyd's greatest danger.
I'll see your Oscar at number 2 though.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07.
I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
I'll agree that Mayweather would beat Shane, but I truly believe he'd be Mayweather's toughest opposition out there right now.
I think you need these three things to beat Floyd.
1. Match Floyd in hand speed (or at least come close)
2. Sustain a quick pace for 12 rounds
3. Have a good enough chin to take Floyd's straight rights.
Of all the guys out there right now, Shane's the only one that comes close to having all three of those things.
Gone are the days when bullrushing Floyd was the gameplan to beating him.
As tough as it sounds, you gotta outbox him and catch him with sneak shots when you can.
And if you don't have all three of the above listed things, it's easy work for Floyd.
I disagree that Floyd can't be bull rushed. Goneindeed are the days where it was thought Hatton or Baldimor could bull rush him but someone naturally bigger and stronger will still have the best chance against in my opinion. Margarito remains a threat, as is De La Hoya.
If anyone, De La Hoya could rush Floyd and have a shot. But i don't think Oscar would fight him that way.
And I'm not sold on Margarito one bit yet.
He could rush Floyd all he wants but his hand speed just isn't fast enough in my opinion. Plus, he loops his heavy shots quite a bit. Floyd would be able to roll his shots even the times Margarito does land.
I really think speed is the big big thing one needs to beat Floyd.
I gotta point at Judah - PBF as a blueprint to beating Floyd.
If Zab Judah was able to fight Floyd like he did in round 1 for all 12 rounds he could've had a real legitimate shot at winning. You gotta admit he looked good in the first few rounds. But he fell apart.
And if anyone could do what Zab did in round one but sustain it for 12, it's gotta be Mosley.
I'm still putting Mosley as Floyd's greatest danger.
I'll see your Oscar at number 2 though.
Yeah I agree I would favour Mayweather over all of them. I think if Margarito really pressed him and kept his punch output high he could nullify Floyd to some extent.
We saw Taylor physical strength over Kasim Ouma, he effectively reduced his punch output to half as Ouma couldn't open up against Taylor for fear of being hit back.
I think Floyd would have to be very cagey against Margarito, and I'm 99% sure that if fight took place Margarito would throw at least 30% more punches than Floyd which might be enough to keep the fight close on the scorecards.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
i've thought mosley would beat mayweather for ages. he's got bigger balls and equal speed.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07.
I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
I'll agree that Mayweather would beat Shane, but I truly believe he'd be Mayweather's toughest opposition out there right now.
I think you need these three things to beat Floyd.
1. Match Floyd in hand speed (or at least come close)
2. Sustain a quick pace for 12 rounds
3. Have a good enough chin to take Floyd's straight rights.
Of all the guys out there right now, Shane's the only one that comes close to having all three of those things.
Gone are the days when bullrushing Floyd was the gameplan to beating him.
As tough as it sounds, you gotta outbox him and catch him with sneak shots when you can.
And if you don't have all three of the above listed things, it's easy work for Floyd.
I disagree that Floyd can't be bull rushed. Goneindeed are the days where it was thought Hatton or Baldimor could bull rush him but someone naturally bigger and stronger will still have the best chance against in my opinion. Margarito remains a threat, as is De La Hoya.
If anyone, De La Hoya could rush Floyd and have a shot. But i don't think Oscar would fight him that way.
And I'm not sold on Margarito one bit yet.
He could rush Floyd all he wants but his hand speed just isn't fast enough in my opinion. Plus, he loops his heavy shots quite a bit. Floyd would be able to roll his shots even the times Margarito does land.
I really think speed is the big big thing one needs to beat Floyd.
I gotta point at Judah - PBF as a blueprint to beating Floyd.
If Zab Judah was able to fight Floyd like he did in round 1 for all 12 rounds he could've had a real legitimate shot at winning. You gotta admit he looked good in the first few rounds. But he fell apart.
And if anyone could do what Zab did in round one but sustain it for 12, it's gotta be Mosley.
I'm still putting Mosley as Floyd's greatest danger.
I'll see your Oscar at number 2 though.
Yeah I agree I would favour Mayweather over all of them. I think if Margarito really pressed him and kept his punch output high he could nullify Floyd to some extent.
We saw Taylor physical strength over Kasim Ouma, he effectively reduced his punch output to half as Ouma couldn't open up against Taylor for fear of being hit back.
I think Floyd would have to be very cagey against Margarito, and I'm 99% sure that if fight took place Margarito would throw at least 30% more punches than Floyd which might be enough to keep the fight close on the scorecards.
That's assuming Margarito goes off on Floyd.
Against nobodies, sure Tony looks great throwing a million punches a round. But when he realizes he's not landing against Floyd and realizes that Floyd can actually hit back, he may hold off a bit and try to reserve some energy.
That's why I wanna see Margarito in with some actual competition and see how he fares with world class competition before I seriously consider him a threat to Floyd.
I still think Tony's fans want him to be better than he actually is.
Prove me wrong, Tony.
I'd be happy if I was wrong and he's the real deal.
-
Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
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Originally Posted by meowza
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
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Originally Posted by meowza
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Originally Posted by bilbo
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Originally Posted by meowza
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
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Originally Posted by No Contest
Shane is gonna wreak havok on the welterweight division. I'm kinda pullin for him because hes gettin older and its cool to see an old guy whoop up on the youngsters.
I don't know if he'll wreak havoc. If Mosley wants a big payday, then he'll get in the ring with Mayweather in late '07.
I think Mayweather would beat Shane rather decisively.
But Mosley would be either favored or at about even odds against any welterweight besides Mayweather.
I'll agree that Mayweather would beat Shane, but I truly believe he'd be Mayweather's toughest opposition out there right now.
I think you need these three things to beat Floyd.
1. Match Floyd in hand speed (or at least come close)
2. Sustain a quick pace for 12 rounds
3. Have a good enough chin to take Floyd's straight rights.
Of all the guys out there right now, Shane's the only one that comes close to having all three of those things.
Gone are the days when bullrushing Floyd was the gameplan to beating him.
As tough as it sounds, you gotta outbox him and catch him with sneak shots when you can.
And if you don't have all three of the above listed things, it's easy work for Floyd.
I disagree that Floyd can't be bull rushed. Goneindeed are the days where it was thought Hatton or Baldimor could bull rush him but someone naturally bigger and stronger will still have the best chance against in my opinion. Margarito remains a threat, as is De La Hoya.
If anyone, De La Hoya could rush Floyd and have a shot. But i don't think Oscar would fight him that way.
And I'm not sold on Margarito one bit yet.
He could rush Floyd all he wants but his hand speed just isn't fast enough in my opinion. Plus, he loops his heavy shots quite a bit. Floyd would be able to roll his shots even the times Margarito does land.
I really think speed is the big big thing one needs to beat Floyd.
I gotta point at Judah - PBF as a blueprint to beating Floyd.
If Zab Judah was able to fight Floyd like he did in round 1 for all 12 rounds he could've had a real legitimate shot at winning. You gotta admit he looked good in the first few rounds. But he fell apart.
And if anyone could do what Zab did in round one but sustain it for 12, it's gotta be Mosley.
I'm still putting Mosley as Floyd's greatest danger.
I'll see your Oscar at number 2 though.
Yeah I agree I would favour Mayweather over all of them. I think if Margarito really pressed him and kept his punch output high he could nullify Floyd to some extent.
We saw Taylor physical strength over Kasim Ouma, he effectively reduced his punch output to half as Ouma couldn't open up against Taylor for fear of being hit back.
I think Floyd would have to be very cagey against Margarito, and I'm 99% sure that if fight took place Margarito would throw at least 30% more punches than Floyd which might be enough to keep the fight close on the scorecards.
That's assuming Margarito goes off on Floyd.
Against nobodies, sure Tony looks great throwing a million punches a round. But when he realizes he's not landing against Floyd and realizes that Floyd can actually hit back, he may hold off a bit and try to reserve some energy.
That's why I wanna see Margarito in with some actual competition and see how he fares with world class competition before I seriously consider him a threat to Floyd.
I still think Tony's fans want him to be better than he actually is.
Prove me wrong, Tony.
I'd be happy if I was wrong and he's the real deal.
I'm not really a fan, and I don't think he's the real deal but he's so much bigger than Floyd naturally that it could have an effect.
Baldomir was big, but slow as hell and a non puncher. Margarito is bigger, has a longer reach, throws way more punches and can dig. He's also got a tough jaw won't be bothered about getting hit by Floyd.
I'd still favour Mayweather but Margarito could be a threat, like Coralles but bigger, throws more, hits harder and doesn't have a china chin.
Whether he could land much against Floyd is the big question though. If he can't it's an easy UD for Floyd, if not then it could be a long night indeed for the pretty boy.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
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Originally Posted by ono
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Originally Posted by BoxingGod
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
You roll your eyes JimBoogie but what had Tyszu done in the last 5 years exactly?
He beat Ben Takie in a 12 round decision, Tackie ALWAYS loses to any name fighter, he lost his next two after Tyszu to Hatton and Mitchell, has subsequently lost to Lazcano and fought to a draw against Contender 'star' Norberto Bravo. Big deal.
Tyszu knocked out Jesse James Leija in 5, again Leija gets knocked out by ALL the big names, De La Hoya 2, Mosely 9, Gatti 5 A Nelson 6, again really not a big deal.
And he beat Sharmba Mitchell in 3 another fighter who always gets knocked out by the big names, Mayweather 6, Williams 5, Stevie Johnstone 9, Leaveander Johnson 8.
The last big win for Tyszu was in 2001 against Zab.
His team have since urged him not to come out of retirement becuase the y believe he's shot.
Beating Tyszu wasn't that big a deal. A good achievement yes, but Tyszu was on the slide, it's fact.
Yeah but still... No better than a faded Vargas? :headscratch: :-\
Bilbo? :'( :shakehead:
;)
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
I think if Margarito really pressed him and kept his punch output high he could nullify Floyd to some extent.
I think Floyd would have to be very cagey against Margarito, and I'm 99% sure that if fight took place Margarito would throw at least 30% more punches than Floyd which might be enough to keep the fight close on the scorecards.
Agreed.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Whether he could land much against Floyd is the big question though. If he can't it's an easy UD for Floyd, if not then it could be a long night indeed for the pretty boy.
That is the only important issue, what you posted there.
By looking at the past performaces of Margarito and Mayweather and looking at their strengths/weaknesses, there is nothing to indicate that Margarito will be able to land much against Floyd.
A fighter like Floyd loves a big slow target that he can potshot at will. He fought 23 rounds against Corrales and Baldomir, and won all 23.
If Mayweather met up with Margarito, I would expect to see Margarito chasing Floyd all night, landing almost nothing, and getting hit repeatedly in the process.
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
You roll your eyes JimBoogie but what had Tyszu done in the last 5 years exactly?
He beat Ben Takie in a 12 round decision, Tackie ALWAYS loses to any name fighter, he lost his next two after Tyszu to Hatton and Mitchell, has subsequently lost to Lazcano and fought to a draw against Contender 'star' Norberto Bravo. Big deal.
Tyszu knocked out Jesse James Leija in 5, again Leija gets knocked out by ALL the big names, De La Hoya 2, Mosely 9, Gatti 5 A Nelson 6, again really not a big deal.
And he beat Sharmba Mitchell in 3 another fighter who always gets knocked out by the big names, Mayweather 6, Williams 5, Stevie Johnstone 9, Leaveander Johnson 8.
The last big win for Tyszu was in 2001 against Zab.
His team have since urged him not to come out of retirement becuase the y believe he's shot.
Beating Tyszu wasn't that big a deal. A good achievement yes, but Tyszu was on the slide, it's fact.
Yeah but still... No better than a faded
Vargas? :headscratch: :-\
Bilbo? :'( :shakehead:
;)
Vargas had only ever lost to two fighters prior to meeting with Shane both hall of famers in De La Hoya and Trinidad.
Coming into the first Mosely fight he had won 4 straight since being knocked out in the 11th round by De La Hoya, He beat Javier Castillejo just prior to fighting Mosely and he was no joke, certainly up there with the likes of Ben Takie and Sharmba Mitchell, he knocked out Felix Sturm last year after all to win the WBA middlewight title!
-
Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
You roll your eyes JimBoogie but what had Tyszu done in the last 5 years exactly?
He beat Ben Takie in a 12 round decision, Tackie ALWAYS loses to any name fighter, he lost his next two after Tyszu to Hatton and Mitchell, has subsequently lost to Lazcano and fought to a draw against Contender 'star' Norberto Bravo. Big deal.
Tyszu knocked out Jesse James Leija in 5, again Leija gets knocked out by ALL the big names, De La Hoya 2, Mosely 9, Gatti 5 A Nelson 6, again really not a big deal.
And he beat Sharmba Mitchell in 3 another fighter who always gets knocked out by the big names, Mayweather 6, Williams 5, Stevie Johnstone 9, Leaveander Johnson 8.
The last big win for Tyszu was in 2001 against Zab.
His team have since urged him not to come out of retirement becuase the y believe he's shot.
Beating Tyszu wasn't that big a deal. A good achievement yes, but Tyszu was on the slide, it's fact.
Yeah but still... No better than a faded
Vargas? :headscratch: :-\
Bilbo? :'( :shakehead:
;)
Vargas had only ever lost to two fighters prior to meeting with Shane both hall of famers in De La Hoya and Trinidad.
Coming into the first Mosely fight he had won 4 straight since being knocked out in the 11th round by De La Hoya, He beat Javier Castillejo just prior to fighting Mosely and he was no joke, certainly up there with the likes of Ben Takie and Sharmba Mitchell, he knocked out Felix Sturm last year after all to win the WBA middlewight title!
:coolclick:
yea how shane moves up to higher weight classes and knocks out a guy like vargas is impressive, hatton doesn't even want to leave 140, shane wouldn't give a damn he'd clim as high as he can in division to fight better oppenents. and still his only lost to great fighters(forrest and winky) and still has the balls and competetive drive to still want rematch even when its clear his style is perfect for forrest and winky.(to lose to)
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
You roll your eyes JimBoogie but what had Tyszu done in the last 5 years exactly?
He beat Ben Takie in a 12 round decision, Tackie ALWAYS loses to any name fighter, he lost his next two after Tyszu to Hatton and Mitchell, has subsequently lost to Lazcano and fought to a draw against Contender 'star' Norberto Bravo. Big deal.
Tyszu knocked out Jesse James Leija in 5, again Leija gets knocked out by ALL the big names, De La Hoya 2, Mosely 9, Gatti 5 A Nelson 6, again really not a big deal.
And he beat Sharmba Mitchell in 3 another fighter who always gets knocked out by the big names, Mayweather 6, Williams 5, Stevie Johnstone 9, Leaveander Johnson 8.
The last big win for Tyszu was in 2001 against Zab.
His team have since urged him not to come out of retirement becuase the y believe he's shot.
Beating Tyszu wasn't that big a deal. A good achievement yes, but Tyszu was on the slide, it's fact.
Tackie beat Oliveria
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Re: No One in Good Conscious Can Rate Hatton Higher Than Shane P4P
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson3000
And before you respond, no, it has nothing to do with the fact that Shane was more impressive against a common opponent, because I realize styles make fights, and I don't hold that against Ricky, but whatever your definition of p4p is, whether it's what have you done for me lately, or who would beat who hypothetically, Shane beats Ricky in both those criteria areas. Right now at this very moment, there is no rational explanation to have Hatton rated higher than Mosley.
the fact hatton is undefeated and is getting hype nowadays is whats holding him in the p4p ranks, but shane has beaten and fought ten times better oppenent then hatton has, and at 35 just dominated a guy that should of beat hatton just a few months ago.
Name one shane mosley victim who is ten times better than Kostya Tszyu? I agree with everything else. Shane is a helluva fighter but that comment is absurd
prime oscar dela hoya (twice) way better then a old koysta tszyu that had only 3 fights in what 3 years,
shane has only lost to two fighters, winky and forrest.
hatton has only 1 name that stands out, old tszyu...shane has fought and dominated divisions and he move up in weights for the sake of just fighting better oppenents. he fought winky in a higher weight class, unlike hatton, he rather rot at 140 and pick on smaller fighters so he can protect his virginity.
:coolclick: I agree, beating a 35 year old Tyszu who had barely fought in 3 years isn't the same as beating a prime De La Hoya,
or even moving upto 154 and beating a faded Vargas.
Tyszu has spent the last two years tap dancing, does anyone really think he would have been doing that if him and his team felt he still had something to offer?
;D ::**
You roll your eyes JimBoogie but what had Tyszu done in the last 5 years exactly?
He beat Ben Takie in a 12 round decision, Tackie ALWAYS loses to any name fighter, he lost his next two after Tyszu to Hatton and Mitchell, has subsequently lost to Lazcano and fought to a draw against Contender 'star' Norberto Bravo. Big deal.
Tyszu knocked out Jesse James Leija in 5, again Leija gets knocked out by ALL the big names, De La Hoya 2, Mosely 9, Gatti 5 A Nelson 6, again really not a big deal.
And he beat Sharmba Mitchell in 3 another fighter who always gets knocked out by the big names, Mayweather 6, Williams 5, Stevie Johnstone 9, Leaveander Johnson 8.
The last big win for Tyszu was in 2001 against Zab.
His team have since urged him not to come out of retirement becuase the y believe he's shot.
Beating Tyszu wasn't that big a deal. A good achievement yes, but Tyszu was on the slide, it's fact.
Tackie beat Oliveria
That was an amazing fight. Pretty sure it broke compu box numbers for total punches thrown at any weight :o Took alot out of each guy though, neither of them ever beat a solid fighter again...
