Should Shane Mosley be P4P top 10 once again?

What do you think? Was Collazo over rated therefore Hatton gets less respect and drops down?

Yes definitely, he should never have dropped out of the top 10 anyways.

Hatton now trails behind Mosely and Cotto on my books, with Marquez (Raul I mean, not sure about Juan Manuel) set to leapfrog him next month.

Hatton in reality is a fringe top 20 fighter at best. He has one win over an elite opponent, but that fighter was old, injury prone, longtime out of action and has now retired.

Since Tyszu he's looked bad against 2 C grade and one B grade fighter.

Mosley truly showed that even at 35 he is still a formidable force. I shall eat humble pie.

Mosley does deserve to replace Hatton in the top 10 P4P....

Sorry this was meant to be here... Third time I posted this same message. I will delete the original second one making this the second one...

If Mosley replaces Hatton on the P4P list, does that mean that Hatton comes back and takes Castillo spot if he wins that fight? I think the loser of the Hatton Castillo fight should be replaced by Mosley.

LOL,Bilbo you mean Rafael Marquez as opposed to Raul right?

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Originally Posted by miles

Mosley truly showed that even at 35 he is still a formidable force. I shall eat humble pie.

Mosley does deserve to replace Hatton in the top 10 P4P....

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You and I both,Collazo was poor!

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Sorry this was meant to be here... Third time I posted this same message. I will delete the original second one making this the second one...

If Mosley replaces Hatton on the P4P list, does that mean that Hatton comes back and takes Castillo spot if he wins that fight? I think the loser of the Hatton Castillo fight should be replaced by Mosley.

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If Hatton beats Castillo,I think he jumps more than one place because JLC is pretty high in most P4P lists!

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Sorry this was meant to be here... Third time I posted this same message. I will delete the original second one making this the second one...

If Mosley replaces Hatton on the P4P list, does that mean that Hatton comes back and takes Castillo spot if he wins that fight? I think the loser of the Hatton Castillo fight should be replaced by Mosley.

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You've had a tough time posting that same message!! ;D :coolclick:

@ EL Gamo, sorry buddy slip of the tongue. Yep Rafael will be top 10 when he beats Isreal Vasquez.

The Barrera Marquez fight is a pick'em not sure which way to go with that one.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

@ EL Gamo, sorry buddy slip of the tongue. Yep Rafael will be top 10 when he beats Isreal Vasquez.

The Barrera Marquez fight is a pick'em not sure which way to go with that one.

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I will be picking Barrera, Bilbo...

Hope this helps! :)

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Originally Posted by bilbo

@ EL Gamo, sorry buddy slip of the tongue. Yep Rafael will be top 10 when he beats Isreal Vasquez.

The Barrera Marquez fight is a pick'em not sure which way to go with that one.

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I like Marquez. Unless Barrera wraps his gloves in ducttape again...

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

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Originally Posted by bilbo

@ EL Gamo, sorry buddy slip of the tongue. Yep Rafael will be top 10 when he beats Isreal Vasquez.

The Barrera Marquez fight is a pick'em not sure which way to go with that one.

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I like Marquez. Unless Barrera wraps his gloves in ducttape again...

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I was on the fence but leaning towards Barrera. But honestly, siding with Miles, is like siding with Barry McGuigan, his vote is the kiss of death to any fighter. :-\

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

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Originally Posted by bilbo

@ EL Gamo, sorry buddy slip of the tongue. Yep Rafael will be top 10 when he beats Isreal Vasquez.

The Barrera Marquez fight is a pick'em not sure which way to go with that one.

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I like Marquez. Unless Barrera wraps his gloves in ducttape again...

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I was on the fence but leaning towards Barrera. But honestly, siding with Miles, is like siding with Barry McGuigan, his vote is the kiss of death to any fighter. :-\

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That is very true, somehow my brainwaves are able to eradicate the abilities of the very fighters Im actually gunning for! ;D

But seriously, Barrera is a decent pick...a very tough fight though...

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

---

1. Mayweather
2. Wright
3. Pacquiao
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe
6. Taylor
7. Hopkins
8. Mosely
9. De La Hoya
10.Cotto


Just fixed it for you :)

JMM has only fought two recognisable fighters in the past 2 years, losing to one and drawing with the other.

R.Marquez hasn't beaten anyone of meritr since Tim Austin, plus he seems to have a thing for beating up on the same fighter twice.

Hatton should change his name to Paper Cutter considering he only fights against C level paper chumps.

The rest was ok though ;)

Bilbo,you know I love you,but you're list sucks ass and balls at the same time!!

Rafa Marquez has beaten more RING top 10 fighters than anyone in that list for one weight class and Austin and Johnson were legends. He also beat the shat out of Silence Mabuza who is by far and away one of the top 3 guys in the division.He should DEFINITELY be in there.

Hopkins lost 2 of his last 3 regardless of what anyone thinks and the one he did win was against Tarver who was not in anyone's P4P lists nor anywhere near the top 10 so why should Hopkins be there?

Oscar...dear dear me...3 fights in 3 years or something,2 of which he lost(Sturm deserved the W) and the one he did win against a Mayorga who recieved a career ending beatin from Tito? No fwocking way Oscar is in there.

I am one of Cotto's biggest fans but he needs a few more wins before he can get into the top 10 especially at the cost of JMM,who has beaten as many good fighters as Cotto has and should have gotten the W v a Manny who annihilated Barerra.

I'm not sold on Mosley being there just yet,Castillo gets that final spot imo,look at whom he has fought!

Mick,I think you're list is almost identical to mine.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Bilbo,you know I love you,but you're list sucks a** and balls at the same time!!

Rafa Marquez has beaten more RING top 10 fighters than anyone in that list for one weight class and Austin and Johnson were legends. He also beat the shat out of Silence Mabuza who is by far and away one of the top 3 guys in the division.He should DEFINITELY be in there.

Hopkins lost 2 of his last 3 regardless of what anyone thinks and the one he did win was against Tarver who was not in anyone's P4P lists nor anywhere near the top 10 so why should Hopkins be there?

Oscar...dear dear me...3 fights in 3 years or something,2 of which he lost(Sturm deserved the W) and the one he did win against a Mayorga who recieved a career ending beatin from Tito? No fwocking way Oscar is in there.

I am one of Cotto's biggest fans but he needs a few more wins before he can get into the top 10 especially at the cost of JMM,who has beaten as many good fighters as Cotto has and should have gotten the W v a Manny who annihilated Barerra.

I'm not sold on Mosley being there just yet,Castillo gets that final spot imo,look at whom he has fought!

Mick,I think you're list is almost identical to mine.

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Well fair enough Gamo I surrender judgement to you on this.

I admit my knowledge of the really little guys is small. I struggle to really rate any man highly who I'd think any averaged sized man could take in a street fight.

I think Hopkins deserves his place in the mix though. He was p4p number 1 in the world before losing two razor close decisions to Taylor who is now a universally recognised p4p star.

And beating Tarver WAS a big deal, he went up two weight divisions and beat the undisputed man at light heavy regardless of whether people liked him or not.

De La Hoya beat Sturm whether you liked the decision or not and was fighting above his natural weight. Put De La Hoya in with any of the current 154 lb champs and I'm sure he beats them all. He's seen by virtually everyone as the man who has the best chance to dethrone the unquestioned p4p number 1 in the sport so surely deserves to be ranked in the top 10.

JMM lost to Chris John, who hardly anyone had ever heard of prior to that loss so if your are going to penalise Hopkins then..................

JMM was robbed against John,totally and completely.In fact he was robbed v Norwood too.

And thats a huge assumption about Oscar beating Spinks,Kamazin and Simms(whom I believe would confuse and frustrate Oscar). No way is Oscar there,I've actually never seen a P4P list with Oscar in it apart from yours,even Mick,the NUMERO UNO Oscar fan does not have him there! And just because he has a chance to dethrone Floyd doesn't make a difference!Fighting above his natural weight is impressive but I would have thought he would have beaten Sturm easier.and his biggest win in 3 years is Mayorga,that is NOT p4p quality!

B Hop's win against Tarver was good but I think Adamek and few other guys would hurt Tarver too.

And Rafael Marquez would KTFO most guys in a street fight,I mean have you seen the size of that guys knuckles?! WTF!!

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

---

1. Mayweather
2. Wright
3. Pacquiao
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe
6. Taylor
7. Hopkins
8. Mosely
9. De La Hoya
10.Cotto


Just fixed it for you :)

JMM has only fought two recognisable fighters in the past 2 years, losing to one and drawing with the other.

R.Marquez hasn't beaten anyone of meritr since Tim Austin, plus he seems to have a thing for beating up on the same fighter twice.

Hatton should change his name to Paper Cutter considering he only fights against C level paper chumps.

The rest was ok though ;)

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I don't get how hopkins and taylor can be on it. Considering hopkins has won only 1 of his last 3 fights i think you should just stick with taylor. Beating Tarver doesn't mean much too me. He's not all that.

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

JMM was robbed against John,totally and completely.In fact he was robbed v Norwood too.

And thats a huge assumption about Oscar beating Spinks,Kamazin and Simms(whom I believe would confuse and frustrate Oscar). No way is Oscar there,I've actually never seen a P4P list with Oscar in it apart from yours,even Mick,the NUMERO UNO Oscar fan does not have him there! And just because he has a chance to dethrone Floyd doesn't make a difference!Fighting above his natural weight is impressive but I would have thought he would have beaten Sturm easier.and his biggest win in 3 years is Mayorga,that is NOT p4p quality!

B Hop's win against Tarver was good but I think Adamek and few other guys would hurt Tarver too.

And Rafael Marquez would KTFO most guys in a street fight,I mean have you seen the size of that guys knuckles?! WTF!!

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Gotta give you a :coolclick: for this quote, And Rafael Marquez would KTFO most guys in a street fight,I mean have you seen the size of that guys knuckles?! WTF!!

You really are the true Statto of the board to notice the size of a fighters knuckles. ;D

Basically it comes down to whether you weigh accomplishments higher than a fighters abilities and skill in the ring. Personally I would say that Bilbo's list is fine. DLH, Hopkins, and Mosley may not have all been very active against world beaters as of late.. But I think they are 3 of the best fighters p4p in the world, regardless. For instance, to have Hatton ranked over Hopkins or Mosley at this stage just does my head in. He beat Tszyu what, 2 years ago... And since then hasn't faced anyone who is even close to p4p status. Now if I felt he was one of the 10 best fighters in the world Id have him on my list anyways, but I simply see no way he is better than say, Mosley, Hopkins, DLH, Israel Vasquez, either Marquez brother, etc. My top 10 p4p, for what it's worth.

1. Mayweather- pretty clear cut.
2.Winky- He and Pac are interchangable for 2 and 3...
3.Pacman- Except, I remember most had Pac 3rd behind Winkster after he stopped MOrales in the rematch. The 3rd fight showed us nothing new imo.
4. Calzaghe- How anyone in their right mind would have him towards the end of the list, let alone behind Hatton, baffles me. He's a great fighter, who admittedly needs a big win. But like I said, Id rather judge a fighter by what I see than on a what have you done for me basis..
5.Hopkins- Shouldn't have dropped off the list after losing to Taylor, but for what it's worth Tarver was ranked no.8 p4p in the world by Ring Mag before Hopkins beat him.
6. R.Marquez- This guy is a monster, can't wait for him to fight Vasquez.
7. Barrera- He has probably been off the top 10 list for a total of 3 weeks in the last 10 years, and still chugging along. Cant wait for him to fight Marquez, but worry he could get old very quickly now.
8. Mosley- Still have to see last nights fight, but unless Wacko was that shitfaced ;D, it sounds like he was very impressive and back on form.
9. Israel Vasquez- Complete warrior. Really really love to watch this guy, he has a great resume and is underrated.. Plus to take Ghonzales and now R Marquez back to back is insane.
10. Jermain Taylor- for me he's just scraping by, needs to really come out and make a statement imo. You could say but he got a draw with Winky.. Well, I think he lost, and that the only reason he did as well as he was able to is because he is a bigger man.

HM: Juan M Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Jhonny ghonzales, Ivan Calderon, Jorge Arce.

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Originally Posted by ono

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

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You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

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You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

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So why the fuck do you have jermain 'bad fuckin intentions' taylor at number 10?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Basically it comes down to whether you weigh accomplishments higher than a fighters abilities and skill in the ring. Personally I would say that Bilbo's list is fine. DLH, Hopkins, and Mosley may not have all been very active against world beaters as of late.. But I think they are 3 of the best fighters p4p in the world, regardless. For instance, to have Hatton ranked over Hopkins or Mosley at this stage just does my head in. He beat Tszyu what, 2 years ago... And since then hasn't faced anyone who is even close to p4p status. Now if I felt he was one of the 10 best fighters in the world Id have him on my list anyways, but I simply see no way he is better than say, Mosley, Hopkins, DLH, Israel Vasquez, either Marquez brother, etc. My top 10 p4p, for what it's worth.

1. Mayweather- pretty clear cut.
2.Winky- He and Pac are interchangable for 2 and 3...
3.Pacman- Except, I remember most had Pac 3rd behind Winkster after he stopped MOrales in the rematch. The 3rd fight showed us nothing new imo.
4. Calzaghe- How anyone in their right mind would have him towards the end of the list, let alone behind Hatton, baffles me. He's a great fighter, who admittedly needs a big win. But like I said, Id rather judge a fighter by what I see than on a what have you done for me basis..
5.Hopkins- Shouldn't have dropped off the list after losing to Taylor, but for what it's worth Tarver was ranked no.8 p4p in the world by Ring Mag before Hopkins beat him.
6. R.Marquez- This guy is a monster, can't wait for him to fight Vasquez.
7. Barrera- He has probably been off the top 10 list for a total of 3 weeks in the last 10 years, and still chugging along. Cant wait for him to fight Marquez, but worry he could get old very quickly now.
8. Mosley- Still have to see last nights fight, but unless Wacko was that shitfaced ;D, it sounds like he was very impressive and back on form.
9. Israel Vasquez- Complete warrior. Really really love to watch this guy, he has a great resume and is underrated.. Plus to take Ghonzales and now R Marquez back to back is insane.
10. Jermain Taylor- for me he's just scraping by, needs to really come out and make a statement imo. You could say but he got a draw with Winky.. Well, I think he lost, and that the only reason he did as well as he was able to is because he is a bigger man.

HM: Juan M Marquez, Ricky Hatton, Jhonny ghonzales, Ivan Calderon, Jorge Arce.

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I like your list p4pking. To me Taylor isn't all that either but he's got the decisions whether we agree with them or not so a win and two draws against Hopkins and Wright by far the top two middleweights in the last 5 or 6 years then he needs to be ranked.

I agree with Calzaghe as well, he's rated below Hatton by nearly everybody which to me is just crazy, Calzaghe has skills!

I will go with you and El Gamo regarding R Marquez, I just don't know enough about to him to be honest.

JMM gets a chance to break into the top 10 with a win over Barrera, in fact he would go in pretty high , around 6 or 7 I think.

I expect Vasquez to be handled easily by R Marquez to be honest.

Mosley defo is top 10 p4p . He replaces Castillo who I dont think really deserved it anyway based on who he's beat . I dont think he beat Casa . He lost twice to Floyd . His only win over Chico was when he didnt have to make weight and Chico did and plus Castillo looked poor last time

But anyway back to Mosley . He's always been top 10 since the lightweight days regardless of his results . He's consistantly been one of teh best fighters in the world and is far from done yet . Floyd knows he is the danger man out there .

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Originally Posted by GAME

Mosley defo is top 10 p4p . He replaces Castillo who I dont think really deserved it anyway based on who he's beat . I dont think he beat Casa . He lost twice to Floyd . His only win over Chico was when he didnt have to make weight and Chico did and plus Castillo looked poor last time

But anyway back to Mosley . He's always been top 10 since the lightweight days regardless of his results . He's consistantly been one of teh best fighters in the world and is far from done yet . Floyd knows he is the danger man out there .

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A well deserved :coolclick: to you sir!

Glad to see somebody else on this board who doesn't hug on Castillo's nutsacks.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

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You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

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So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

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He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

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1. Mayweather
2. Wright
3. Pacquiao
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe - Too high, IMO and fighting Peter will do nothing for him on my list.
6. Taylor
7. Hopkins - Lost 2 of his last 3 bouts, IMO does not belong on this list.
8. Mosely - Too high.
9. De La Hoya - Oscars my boy but top 10 P4P NO.....
10.Cotto - Cottos my boy and I could see this but to me he needs just 1 more win and surely he'll be here....


Just fixed it for you :)

JMM has only fought two recognisable fighters in the past 2 years, losing to one and drawing with the other.

R.Marquez hasn't beaten anyone of meritr since Tim Austin, plus he seems to have a thing for beating up on the same fighter twice.

Hatton should change his name to Paper Cutter considering he only fights against C level paper chumps.

The rest was ok though ;)

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I fixed your list for you at the top. :)
I don't see how anyone can have B-Hop on the p4p list I don't care what he did to Tarver.
JMM & R.Marquez have been P4P for a couple of weeks now and will stay there if they can keep on wining.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

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You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

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So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

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He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

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He looked terrible and i think anyone has a case for him even losing all 3. Hell i'm not saying hatton should be in the top ten because i honestly don't think he should be, but if he is there i don't understand how you can drop out when you have won 3 world titles in a row with 1 being at a higher weight and 2 being away from home.

Styles make fights so to not have somebody on the list simply because they didn't look brillaint is a bit silly IMO. Style wise Hatton's last 3 fights have been a total nightmare. One clown and 2 southpaws. But he found a way to win and that IMO is more important than looking good and losing, which seems to fit the criteria for making your p4p list....ala Bernard Hopkins.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

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You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

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So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

---

He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

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He looked terrible and i think anyone has a case for him even losing all 3. Hell i'm not saying hatton should be in the top ten because i honestly don't think he should be, but if he is there i don't understand how you can drop out when you have won 3 world titles in a row with 1 being at a higher weight and 2 being away from home.

Styles make fights so to not have somebody on the list simply because they didn't look brillaint is a bit silly IMO. Style wise Hatton's last 3 fights have been a total nightmare. One clown and 2 southpaws. But he found a way to win and that IMO is more important than looking good and losing, which seems to fit the criteria for making your p4p list....ala Bernard Hopkins.

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3 world titles in a row.. It's a moot point. Maussa and Urango were 2 of those world titles. They are both garbage and 2 of the weakest trinket holders you could dream of. collazo was the only real opponent he's faced since Tszyu, and I think he lost, and looked bad doing so. Hey, Hopkins was the no.1 p4p fighter before he "lost" to Taylor in the first fight. He still deserved to be in the rankings afterwards. I had no problem with him dropping off the top 10 after losing the rematch by a hair. I figured he'd retire anyways. But he didn't, moved up TWO weight divisions, and dominated the linear champion and no.8 p4p fighter according to the ring mag. If Hatton's last 3 fights were against the p4p equivalent of Jermain Taylor, I think he'd have lost them all. I just don't feel he is among the 10 best fighters in the world.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by ono

Also how can Hatton drop out when since kostya tszyu he's stil won 3 in a row. 3 world titles too. It doesn't matter how good you look winning, its getting the win that's important.

---

You actually couldn't be more wrong there. How good you look winning is most of what p4p is all about. Otherwise Sven Ottke would be in the top 20 all time.

---

So why the F*** do you have jermain 'bad F****** intentions' taylor at number 10?

---

He beat hopkins the second time, after a very very competitive first fight that I thought Hopkins edged out.. Then fought to a draw in a very close fight against WRight. Again, I thought he lost by a round or so.. But the fact is, that at the time those were the number 1 and 2 p4p fighters in the world, almost undeniably, and he still hasn't lost. Hell why do you think after fighting #1 and 2, I only have him at number 10? Im not saying he's looked great. But he took the 3 hardest possible fights in a row and did fairly well for himself in each. Sure if Hatton had beaten Tszyu yesterday Id proably have him in the middle of the list, but the fact is it wasn't, and since then he has not only fought mediocre opposition, but looked average doing it. I think he is already on the slide, to be honest.

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He looked terrible and i think anyone has a case for him even losing all 3. Hell i'm not saying hatton should be in the top ten because i honestly don't think he should be, but if he is there i don't understand how you can drop out when you have won 3 world titles in a row with 1 being at a higher weight and 2 being away from home.

Styles make fights so to not have somebody on the list simply because they didn't look brillaint is a bit silly IMO. Style wise Hatton's last 3 fights have been a total nightmare. One clown and 2 southpaws. But he found a way to win and that IMO is more important than looking good and losing, which seems to fit the criteria for making your p4p list....ala Bernard Hopkins.

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3 world titles in a row.. It's a moot point. Maussa and Urango were 2 of those world titles. They are both garbage and 2 of the weakest trinket holders you could dream of. collazo was the only real opponent he's faced since Tszyu, and I think he lost, and looked bad doing so. Hey, Hopkins was the no.1 p4p fighter before he "lost" to Taylor in the first fight. He still deserved to be in the rankings afterwards. I had no problem with him dropping off the top 10 after losing the rematch by a hair. I figured he'd retire anyways. But he didn't, moved up TWO weight divisions, and dominated the linear champion and no.8 p4p fighter according to the ring mag. If Hatton's last 3 fights were against the p4p equivalent of Jermain Taylor, I think he'd have lost them all. I just don't feel he is among the 10 best fighters in the world.

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me neither but to have both taylor and hopkins in there is silly. You have to decide which most important.....looking good or winning. Fact is hopkins has lost 2 of his last 3...to taylor, so there for should he not be below Taylor?

Does a win over Tarver really push Hopkins back above Taylor?

If Clinton Woods beats Tarver will that see him gatecrash the p4p rankings????? ::**

That's like saying if Hopkins were to beat Winky in a competitive fight in July, Id have to decide which one should still be on the top 10 p4p?? Rubbish. I thought Hopkins wen't 1-1 with Taylor. Im not just going by paper, I felt Hopkins won the first fight, and I feel he's a better fighter than Taylor.. He just struggled with making 160 for a long time and fought too conservatively in general. And no, of course Clinton Woods beating Tarver wouldn't put him in the top 10 p4p, unless Tarver had a good win beforehand to get back on track, then Woods proceeded to put on a masterful boxing performance. But guess what... He can't, because he isn't as good as Hopkins. THat's all Im saying, my top 10 p4p is in my opinion the 10 best boxers in the world.. You still haven't said why Hopkins or Taylor shouldn't be in the top 10.. Who should be instead?? Since you admit you don't think Hatton should, Id like to hear.. Anyways CC, we've had some good debates recently.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's like saying if Hopkins were to beat Winky in a competitive fight in July, Id have to decide which one should still be on the top 10 p4p?? Rubbish. I thought Hopkins wen't 1-1 with Taylor. Im not just going by paper, I felt Hopkins won the first fight, and I feel he's a better fighter than Taylor.. He just struggled with making 160 for a long time and fought too conservatively in general. And no, of course Clinton Woods beating Tarver wouldn't put him in the top 10 p4p, unless Tarver had a good win beforehand to get back on track, then Woods proceeded to put on a masterful boxing performance. But guess what... He can't, because he isn't as good as Hopkins. THat's all Im saying, my top 10 p4p is in my opinion the 10 best boxers in the world.. You still haven't said why Hopkins or Taylor shouldn't be in the top 10.. Who should be instead?? Since you admit you don't think Hatton should, Id like to hear.. Anyways CC, we've had some good debates recently.

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yeh i clicked you back. Its cool debating with you, you put across great arguments.

I was joking bout Clinton, he's ok but thats about it.

At the minute i'd have hopkins outside the top ten but a win over winky would put him back up there somewhere....maybe coming close to taking winky's place, depending on how dominating he is. That would knock winky down a peg and thus have a domino effect on everyone else.

my top ten at the minute would be

1: PBF
2: Pac
3: Winky - 2&3 inter changeable...was tempted to stick them at 1&2 purely because they have fought overseas on many occassions which is a big thing IMO. But Floyd is the better boxer so.....
4: MAB
5: Calzaghe
6: Raul Marquez
7: Jermain Taylor - purely results wise.....i don't dig him personally but somehow he gets it done.....
8: JJ Marquez
9: Shane Mosely
10: Jose Luis Castillo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's like saying if Hopkins were to beat Winky in a competitive fight in July, Id have to decide which one should still be on the top 10 p4p?? Rubbish. I thought Hopkins wen't 1-1 with Taylor. Im not just going by paper, I felt Hopkins won the first fight, and I feel he's a better fighter than Taylor.. He just struggled with making 160 for a long time and fought too conservatively in general. And no, of course Clinton Woods beating Tarver wouldn't put him in the top 10 p4p, unless Tarver had a good win beforehand to get back on track, then Woods proceeded to put on a masterful boxing performance. But guess what... He can't, because he isn't as good as Hopkins. THat's all Im saying, my top 10 p4p is in my opinion the 10 best boxers in the world.. You still haven't said why Hopkins or Taylor shouldn't be in the top 10.. Who should be instead?? Since you admit you don't think Hatton should, Id like to hear.. Anyways CC, we've had some good debates recently.

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yeh i clicked you back. Its cool debating with you, you put across great arguments.

I was joking bout Clinton, he's ok but thats about it.

At the minute i'd have hopkins outside the top ten but a win over winky would put him back up there somewhere....maybe coming close to taking winky's place, depending on how dominating he is. That would knock winky down a peg and thus have a domino effect on everyone else.

my top ten at the minute would be

1: PBF
2: Pac
3: Winky - 2&3 inter changeable...was tempted to stick them at 1&2 purely because they have fought overseas on many occassions which is a big thing IMO. But Floyd is the better boxer so.....
4: MAB
5: Calzaghe
6: Raul Marquez
7: Jermain Taylor - purely results wise.....i don't dig him personally but somehow he gets it done.....
8: JJ Marquez
9: Shane Mosely
10: Jose Luis Castillo

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Now you see our lists aren't too different at all. You wouldn't have Hopkins in there, I didn't have J Marquez or Castillo.. I think there are perfectly valid arguements as to why any one of them should or shouldn't be top 10, to a degree.. Just think about it this way, Hopkins was the no.1 p4p until he fought Taylor in the middle of 2005. I thought he won the first, lost the second, and he obviously dominated Tarver. Since that same time, who have Castillo or Marquez beaten, or even fought?? Marquez fought to a draw with Pac in 2004, and since then has not faced p4p caliber fighters, plain and simple. Chris John was his best opponent since, who he lost to, quite contraversially albeit. Castillo lost to Corrales in 2005 by TKO, no matter how great the fight was, Corrales wasn't on anyone's p4p list.. And since that he KOed Corrales in the rematch but didn't make weight, fought Ronaldo Reyes in a complete stinker, and recently scraped by Ngoudjou by a hair. Both Marquez and Castillo have not been active against elite fighter's since Bhop was the undisputed p4p king. So why should his going 1-1 with Taylor, then moving up 2 weights and beating Tarver, now put him behind those 2 men? You see where Im coming from??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ono

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p4pking

That's like saying if Hopkins were to beat Winky in a competitive fight in July, Id have to decide which one should still be on the top 10 p4p?? Rubbish. I thought Hopkins wen't 1-1 with Taylor. Im not just going by paper, I felt Hopkins won the first fight, and I feel he's a better fighter than Taylor.. He just struggled with making 160 for a long time and fought too conservatively in general. And no, of course Clinton Woods beating Tarver wouldn't put him in the top 10 p4p, unless Tarver had a good win beforehand to get back on track, then Woods proceeded to put on a masterful boxing performance. But guess what... He can't, because he isn't as good as Hopkins. THat's all Im saying, my top 10 p4p is in my opinion the 10 best boxers in the world.. You still haven't said why Hopkins or Taylor shouldn't be in the top 10.. Who should be instead?? Since you admit you don't think Hatton should, Id like to hear.. Anyways CC, we've had some good debates recently.

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yeh i clicked you back. Its cool debating with you, you put across great arguments.

I was joking bout Clinton, he's ok but thats about it.

At the minute i'd have hopkins outside the top ten but a win over winky would put him back up there somewhere....maybe coming close to taking winky's place, depending on how dominating he is. That would knock winky down a peg and thus have a domino effect on everyone else.

my top ten at the minute would be

1: PBF
2: Pac
3: Winky - 2&3 inter changeable...was tempted to stick them at 1&2 purely because they have fought overseas on many occassions which is a big thing IMO. But Floyd is the better boxer so.....
4: MAB
5: Calzaghe
6: Raul Marquez
7: Jermain Taylor - purely results wise.....i don't dig him personally but somehow he gets it done.....
8: JJ Marquez
9: Shane Mosely
10: Jose Luis Castillo

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Now you see our lists aren't too different at all. You wouldn't have Hopkins in there, I didn't have J Marquez or Castillo.. I think there are perfectly valid arguements as to why any one of them should or shouldn't be top 10, to a degree.. Just think about it this way, Hopkins was the no.1 p4p until he fought Taylor in the middle of 2005. I thought he won the first, lost the second, and he obviously dominated Tarver. Since that same time, who have Castillo or Marquez beaten, or even fought?? Marquez fought to a draw with Pac in 2004, and since then has not faced p4p caliber fighters, plain and simple. Chris John was his best opponent since, who he lost to, quite contraversially albeit. Castillo lost to Corrales in 2005 by TKO, no matter how great the fight was, Corrales wasn't on anyone's p4p list.. And since that he KOed Corrales in the rematch but didn't make weight, fought Ronaldo Reyes in a complete stinker, and recently scraped by Ngoudjou by a hair. Both Marquez and Castillo have not been active against elite fighter's since Bhop was the undisputed p4p king. So why should his going 1-1 with Taylor, then moving up 2 weights and beating Tarver, now put him behind those 2 men? You see where Im coming from??

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Game set and match....p4pking ;D

i see exactly where your coming from but i do prefer to go by what the record book says and it says 2 losses for b-hop. I dint wanna have Taylor on there......but as i was getting down to about 7 or 8 on the list i was thinking 'he's right b-hop should be on here' but my mind wont logically allow me to have both taylor and b-hop on :-\

I even came close to finding a reason for ricky hatton to be on it ;D

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

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Isn't it going to be wonderful? Your number 4 and 5 are fighting each other!! teh way boxing should be :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

LOL,Bilbo you mean Rafael Marquez as opposed to Raul right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miles

Mosley truly showed that even at 35 he is still a formidable force. I shall eat humble pie.

Mosley does deserve to replace Hatton in the top 10 P4P....

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You and I both,Collazo was poor!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Sorry this was meant to be here... Third time I posted this same message. I will delete the original second one making this the second one...

If Mosley replaces Hatton on the P4P list, does that mean that Hatton comes back and takes Castillo spot if he wins that fight? I think the loser of the Hatton Castillo fight should be replaced by Mosley.

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If Hatton beats Castillo,I think he jumps more than one place because JLC is pretty high in most P4P lists!

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Nah, the Ring dropped Castillo from their p4p list entirely last month.

I don't understand how people can possibly NOT have Bernard Hopkins on their p4p list.

Going in against Taylor he was the p4p NUMBER 1 in the sport!

He lost a controversial razor thin decision, then lost another close, hard fought decision.

The person he lost to then gets a draw in a very close fight against the p4p NUMBER 2 in the sport!

Hopkins then goes on to move up TWO divisions to fight and beat the UNDISPUTED (although no title) light heavyweight champ who had previously KNOCKED OUT the long time P4P NUMBER 1 in the sport!

How the hell can you not have B Hop in the top 10 after that ???

Hop is top 5 p4p right behind Mayweather, Winky, Pacquai, Barrera and Taylor. How anyone can possibly make a case that Calzaghe, Hatton, Castillo, either Marquez or anyone else has done more than B Hop is completely beyond me ???


If Barrera loses to Marquez next month, does he leave the top 10 p4p?

If Mayweather loses to De La Hoya does he drop out of the top 10? ???

Oh how fickle are the people whose top 10 changes week by week. ::**

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Hop is top 5 p4p right behind Mayweather, Winky, Pacquai, Barrera and Taylor. How anyone can possibly make a case that Calzaghe, Hatton, Castillo, either Marquez or anyone else has done more than B Hop is completely beyond me ???

Oh how fickle are the people whose top 10 changes week by week. ???

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bilbo

1. Mayweather
2. Wright
3. Pacquiao
4. Barrera
5. Calzaghe
6. Taylor
7. Hopkins
8. Mosely
9. De La Hoya
10.Cotto

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:lolhaha:


Your contradictions are world class ;D


:coolclick:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

Yes, cause he was @ 154 and won 2 fights there then came down to 147 and won there.....

Heres how I have my P4P list as of yesterday....

1. PBF
2. Winky
3. Pac
4. MAB
5. JMM
6. R.Marquez
7. JTaylor
8. Hatton
9. Joe C.
10. *SSM


*I had JLC rated at #10, but after yesterdays win SMM takes the #1o spot IMO.

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Isn't it going to be wonderful? Your number 4 and 5 are fighting each other!! teh way boxing should be :)

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Indeed and as you say thats the way it should be.... :)