Can the Klitschkos save the Heavyweight Division?

Most everyone will agree that the Heavyweight division ( and boxing in general) is plagued by the parasites that we know as "boxing organizations"
These for profit "business" have leeched the life blood of boxers and the sport itself for their own I'll gotton gains and contributed nothing to the sport itself other than to drag it down into disrepute! The alphabelt belt rankings and corrupt matchings are based on who will and won't pay sanctioning fees and "title" shots are based on payoffs, revenues and who will kick the most $ into deep greedy "boxing" organizations pockets! This is nothing new to any of us.
The sad Samuel Peter fiasco is just another page in the disgraceful Events that seem to unfold daily in the boxing world. After 2 clear wins and untold $ paid in sanctioning fees based on promises of mandatory title shots Samuel Peter sits waiting and is now being offered "side stepping" money so a bigger and brighter star or more lucrative cash cow can take his place! Legal "emeritus" status aside its still a mess! If there is no real basis of Peter's claim HE WOULD NOT BE BEING OFFERED ANY MONEY! plain and simple!
What Boxing needs is an UNDISPUTED CHAMPION in every division! a champion who's credentials eclipse the phony tag of belt holder with the universally recognised title of Undisputed WORLD Champion. A linear championship can then be Reestablished and the belts dumped into the garbage can as Riddick Bowie once attempted (reasons dubious!)
As for the HW division? And the current Peter/Maskaev/Klitschko situation?
I think That the Klitschkos brothers dream is to hold all 4 belts between the 2 of them. And since they won't fight each other that just delays what the sport wants and needs. A unification of all 4 belts for an undisputed WORLD heavyweight champion who can then establish a chronological championship lineage and get rid of the "power" that the belts hold on the division! That isn't something that the brothers are ever going to provide for the division
in spite of all the skills and good things they bring to the table!
(bold added for overly defensive Klitschko fans! lol)
Their motivations are selfish in that they place family unity and brotherly love above the interest of boxing (not that I'm saying thats wrong)
So if Vitali and Wlad can't (or won't ever) unify the 4 titles and bring REAL credibility to the Division
that it SO desperately needs!.
WHO CAN? WHO IS LEFT? that can do it??
who has a chance to beat the other title holders, bring recognition and media attention to the division, say with some kind of incredable record
(phony or not) make a title defense or 2 to solidify his postion and vanquish the phony belts to the position of obsolescence and irrelevance that they deserve!

The Klitschko won't! who's left??


Briggs?
Maskaev?


Hey wait a minute!!!!

man why am i not surprised this thread is actually about valuev!

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Originally Posted by armin

man why am i not surprised this thread is actually about valuev!

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Uh so you agree??


I'll take that as a yes.

Well I do kinda agree about the Klits, I'm hoping Sam Peter can hold fort until Evander Holyfield comes riding in and retakes his throne for the 4th time ;)

land got a give it to ya you totally twisted that one on me, but no I don't agree with ya. but cc for the cleverness

Actually on this post I'm serious.
maybe I've finally baffled myself with my own bulshit!! LOL
I loved Evander....but he's done...MAN! I'm 46!! whats Evander? 105?
Maybe because the div is so thin..
in a few years it may ALL be different

as for Bilbo...hold fort? he lost to wlad.....and lost his first fight to Toney.....again... I love the guy but he aint got what it takes..

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Actually on this post I'm serious.
maybe I've finally baffled myself with my own bulshit!! LOL
I loved Evander....but he's done...MAN! I'm 46!! whats Evander? 105?
Maybe because the div is so thin..
in a few years it may ALL be different

as for Bilbo...hold fort? he lost to wlad.....and lost his first fight to Toney.....again... I love the guy but he aint got what it takes..

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But to be champ these days you don't need to have what it takes.

i'll just answer what the title of the topic is;

Can the klitschkos save the heavyweight division?



yes.........

Wladimir potentially could. Not Vitali.

Let me answer as well,
Yes,

Wlad and vitali,
Owning all 4 belts will be the best thing for boxing.
why?
It will get sold as the Klitschko brothers OWNING the HWD. it will bring publicity to the HWD like we havent seen in years.
Think about how much the klitschko brothers were talked about (and still are) when they were fighting at the same time. Nevermind if they hold all the belts too. Even though they wont fight each other, people will talk about that possibility for years. The positive attention that it would bring would be Huge.
if vitali comes back right to a title shot, it will only be a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Wladimir potentially could. Not Vitali.

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If vitali's body is in working order and he has the balls to not quit anymore fights than i'd actually support him becoming the ring champ. Wladimir, just no.

Save it? They're trying to ruin it with corruption.

how are the klitschko's being corrupt?

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Well I do kinda agree about the Klits, I'm hoping Sam Peter can hold fort until Evander Holyfield comes riding in and retakes his throne for the 4th time ;)

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And you rib me for picking Collazo!! ;D ::**

no they cant ones got no chin and the others a quitter.

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Originally Posted by landmine950

Most everyone will agree that the Heavyweight division ( and boxing in general) is plagued by the parasites that we know as "boxing organizations"
These for profit "business" have leeched the life blood of boxers and the sport itself for their own I'll gotton gains and contributed nothing to the sport itself other than to drag it down into disrepute! The alphabelt belt rankings and corrupt matchings are based on who will and won't pay sanctioning fees and "title" shots are based on payoffs, revenues and who will kick the most $ into deep greedy "boxing" organizations pockets! This is nothing new to any of us.
The sad Samuel Peter fiasco is just another page in the disgraceful Events that seem to unfold daily in the boxing world. After 2 clear wins and untold $ paid in sanctioning fees based on promises of mandatory title shots Samuel Peter sits waiting and is now being offered "side stepping" money so a bigger and brighter star or more lucrative cash cow can take his place! Legal "emeritus" status aside its still a mess! If there is no real basis of Peter's claim HE WOULD NOT BE BEING OFFERED ANY MONEY! plain and simple!
What Boxing needs is an UNDISPUTED CHAMPION in every division! a champion who's credentials eclipse the phony tag of belt holder with the universally recognised title of Undisputed WORLD Champion. A linear championship can then be Reestablished and the belts dumped into the garbage can as Riddick Bowie once attempted (reasons dubious!)
As for the HW division? And the current Peter/Maskaev/Klitschko situation?
I think That the Klitschkos brothers dream is to hold all 4 belts between the 2 of them. And since they won't fight each other that just delays what the sport wants and needs. A unification of all 4 belts for an undisputed WORLD heavyweight champion who can then establish a chronological championship lineage and get rid of the "power" that the belts hold on the division! That isn't something that the brothers are ever going to provide for the division
in spite of all the skills and good things they bring to the table!
(bold added for overly defensive Klitschko fans! lol)
Their motivations are selfish in that they place family unity and brotherly love above the interest of boxing (not that I'm saying thats wrong)
So if Vitali and Wlad can't (or won't ever) unify the 4 titles and bring REAL credibility to the Division
that it SO desperately needs!.
WHO CAN? WHO IS LEFT? that can do it??
who has a chance to beat the other title holders, bring recognition and media attention to the division, say with some kind of incredable record
(phony or not) make a title defense or 2 to solidify his postion and vanquish the phony belts to the position of obsolescence and irrelevance that they deserve!

The Klitschko won't! who's left??


Briggs?
Maskaev?


Hey wait a minute!!!!

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Does the heavyweight division really need to be saved by the Klitschkos anyway?!

I dont get this thread?! ???

miles, do you enjoy the state of the heavyweight division right now?
Do the current champs of the heavyweight div satisfy you?

i answer no, to both questions, at one time the heavyweight Crown was the most important title in sports. Now, its joked on. So yes, i believe it needs to be saved,resurrected. Awhile ago, the phrase "HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD" would give me chills, now its more like..ya ya ya

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

miles, do you enjoy the state of the heavyweight division right now?
Do the current champs of the heavyweight div satisfy you?

i answer no, to both questions, at one time the heavyweight Crown was the most important title in sports. Now, its joked on. So yes, i believe it needs to be saved,resurrected. Awhile ago, the phrase "HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD" would give me chills, now its more like..ya ya ya

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Boxing for me is about far more than the heavyweights and it always has always been so. Most of my boxing pleasure comes from the lower weight divisions. And this is very understandable.

But regardless, the heavyweight division does still interest me to a limited degree. But I dont really see how the Klitschko's are needed to save the division. How can they save the division? Can they automatically summon up a thousand worthy opponents and give us a great number of new and interesting match ups? No.

Sam Peter has been keeping busy and has got a shot at the title and that has interested me. And for him to be asked to stand aside. Well, that kinda turns me off again...

And who is Wlad fighting next? Exactly!! And why cant Vitali wait a fight before challenging? Exactly!!

The Klitschkos are not saving any division ::**

oh miles, i expected lots more from you sir....

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Boxing for me is about far more than the heavyweights and it always has always been so. Most of my boxing pleasure comes from the lower weight divisions. And this is very understandable.

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A real fan of boxing will get pleasure out of watching any "GOOD" fight at any weight division, so i agree with you there. However, The HWD is to be the forefront of boxing. its massive sized boxers exasterbates the qualities of boxing as a sport.

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Can they automatically summon up a thousand worthy opponents and give us a great number of new and interesting match ups? No.

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your right they cant, but who can, who has, No one,
but what they can do is bring attention to the sport, add Class to a division that is laughed upon.Bring back the days where dedication to athleticism was appreciated. Not trash talking, over the hill, over hyped wind bags who CANNOT perform when their time comes.
Although wlad has had his problems (supposedly with his chin), and vitali quit on his stool due to valid injury. You cant say that having both wlad and vitali doesnt help the heavyweight division. And if you help the HWD, you help boxing.
I mean the day of briggs and maskaev being called world champs is a sad day IMO.
But miles, if you cant see how having the klitschkos would add excitement to the HWD, then maybe your right when you say most of your boxing pleasure comes from lower division...because someone that watches the HWD enough, can see bright as day, on how the klitschko's (or fighters like them) will add only positives to the sport.

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Sam Peter has been keeping busy and has got a shot at the title and that has interested me. And for him to be asked to stand aside. Well, that kinda turns me off again...

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Hey, ive said it before and ill say it again, if peter doesnt get his shot, i feel bad for him, But rules are rules and they have been in place for years.

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And who is Wlad fighting next? Exactly!! And why cant Vitali wait a fight before challenging? Exactly!!

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First wlad is fighting a MANDATORY fight to keep his belt, something that alot of fighters in the "lower weight divisions" do not care 2 sh!ts about anymore. So you want to knock him for that, Congrats ::**
Second, why cant vitali wait? Why should he? Would you? Let me get that one for you...No you wouldnt
Vitali see's a right that was Granted to him a long time ago, he see's a possible fight with a guy from his neck of the woods, that would sell 2 fold over a peter vs vitali fight overseas. Hmmm, do i want to fight a guy who my brother Annihilated, or a bigger payday with maskaev. And then slap peter around after.

Klitschkos will bring more attention, respect,class, and dedication to the HWD than any combination of heavyweight fighting today. And althought their competition may be lack luster, their performance most likely wont be. You cant say that about 1 heavyweight in the buiz right now.

All of the comments on what the Klitschko brothers CAN bring to
the HW division are TOTAL outweighed by what they CAN'T or at least WON'T bring.
And THAT! is what the Division and really EVERY division needs!

A Unified Championship. The Ring Champion! Give him a crown and call him "The King of the Ring"

The other "belts" would become mere stepping stones like the intercontinental belts currently are to the World belts

If there is any hope at all of this happening in the near future, that hope rests solely on a very tall set of extremely hairy shoulders.

is Top Ten a brand of boxing equipment??? From Valuev's gloves.

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Originally Posted by landmine950

All of the comments on what the Klitschko brothers CAN bring to
the HW division are TOTAL outweighed by what they CAN'T or at least WON'T bring.
And THAT! is what the Division and really EVERY division needs!

A Unified Championship. The Ring Champion! Give him a crown and call him "The King of the Ring"

The other "belts" would become mere stepping stones like the intercontinental belts currently are to the World belts

If there is any hope at all of this happening in the near future, that hope rests solely on a very tall set of extremely hairy shoulders.

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How many unified champions are there right now, in every division?All of the divisions are in the same boat, why is it only the heavyweights that need a unified champion?Having Vitali back brings a lot more intrest back and that is more important than having one guy with all the belts.

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Originally Posted by Klitschkofan

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Originally Posted by landmine950

All of the comments on what the Klitschko brothers CAN bring to
the HW division are TOTAL outweighed by what they CAN'T or at least WON'T bring.
And THAT! is what the Division and really EVERY division needs!

A Unified Championship. The Ring Champion! Give him a crown and call him "The King of the Ring"

The other "belts" would become mere stepping stones like the intercontinental belts currently are to the World belts

If there is any hope at all of this happening in the near future, that hope rests solely on a very tall set of extremely hairy shoulders.

---

How many unified champions are there right now, in every division?All of the divisions are in the same boat, why is it only the heavyweights that need a unified champion?Having Vitali back brings a lot more intrest back and that is more important than having one guy with all the belts.

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It's not just a matter of unifying, noone even holds the ring belt at HW, least not to my knowledge. Tell me another division where that is the situation? I can't think of many.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

oh miles, i expected lots more from you sir....

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Boxing for me is about far more than the heavyweights and it always has always been so. Most of my boxing pleasure comes from the lower weight divisions. And this is very understandable.

---

A real fan of boxing will get pleasure out of watching any "GOOD" fight at any weight division, so i agree with you there. However, The HWD is to be the forefront of boxing. its massive sized boxers exasterbates the qualities of boxing as a sport.

Quote:

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Can they automatically summon up a thousand worthy opponents and give us a great number of new and interesting match ups? No.

---

your right they cant, but who can, who has, No one,
but what they can do is bring attention to the sport, add Class to a division that is laughed upon.Bring back the days where dedication to athleticism was appreciated. Not trash talking, over the hill, over hyped wind bags who CANNOT perform when their time comes.
Although wlad has had his problems (supposedly with his chin), and vitali quit on his stool due to valid injury. You cant say that having both wlad and vitali doesnt help the heavyweight division. And if you help the HWD, you help boxing.
I mean the day of briggs and maskaev being called world champs is a sad day IMO.
But miles, if you cant see how having the klitschkos would add excitement to the HWD, then maybe your right when you say most of your boxing pleasure comes from lower division...because someone that watches the HWD enough, can see bright as day, on how the klitschko's (or fighters like them) will add only positives to the sport.

Quote:

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Sam Peter has been keeping busy and has got a shot at the title and that has interested me. And for him to be asked to stand aside. Well, that kinda turns me off again...

---

Hey, ive said it before and ill say it again, if peter doesnt get his shot, i feel bad for him, But rules are rules and they have been in place for years.

Quote:

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And who is Wlad fighting next? Exactly!! And why cant Vitali wait a fight before challenging? Exactly!!

---

First wlad is fighting a MANDATORY fight to keep his belt, something that alot of fighters in the "lower weight divisions" do not care 2 sh!ts about anymore. So you want to knock him for that, Congrats ::**
Second, why cant vitali wait? Why should he? Would you? Let me get that one for you...No you wouldnt
Vitali see's a right that was Granted to him a long time ago, he see's a possible fight with a guy from his neck of the woods, that would sell 2 fold over a peter vs vitali fight overseas. Hmmm, do i want to fight a guy who my brother Annihilated, or a bigger payday with maskaev. And then slap peter around after.

Klitschkos will bring more attention, respect,class, and dedication to the HWD than any combination of heavyweight fighting today. And althought their competition may be lack luster, their performance most likely wont be. You cant say that about 1 heavyweight in the buiz right now.

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I disagree with your comment about heavyweight boxing being at the forefront. As far as im concerned it doesnt need to be all about the heavyweights. I get more skill and just as much entertainment from boxers from a whole range of divisions.

As for fighting the mandatories and keeping the belts. Well, Wlad can fight all the mandatories he wants. It wont prove him the best in the division until he begins to unify. I wouldnt mind seeing him trying to avenge a loss or 2 also. We all know the real value of these belts anyways. Calzaghe, as much as I like him, has fought too many mandatories over the years and against who?? Exactly. Keeping the belt and fighting mandatories does not make a great fighter. More is needed. Maybe Wlad will do it. Time will tell on that one.

You ask me if I would indeed step aside and allow Peter his shot at Maskaev first? My honest answer is that yes I would stand aside. I can see clearly that Peter has fought twice to have his shot. He deserves it. I see no problem in taking a warm up and then fighting the winner or Maskaev: Peter.

And dont give me that bullshit about rules. The boxing commisions change the rules to suit their self indulgent whims at will. How exactly do these mandatories get their positions, they are seldom worthy of a shot!

Sam Peter excites me more than Vitali Klitschko right now, now that is a fight I want to see. It would cetainly generate more interest than a Maskaev: Klitschko fight!

I think this is quite an interesting thread and I agree partially with most people's opinions.

First off I do think the Klitschkos are VERY important to the heavyweight division. In an era where most of the heavies are old, fat, slow and out of shape the ripped and chiselled Wladimir and hopefully soon his brother as well definitely bring some credibility to the division.

Seriously can you even imagine how bad the division would have looked had not Wlad been in it these past couple years? :-X

Chris Byrd would probably be the Ring champion and Calvin Brock the heir to the throne.

Let's be honest heavyweight boxing needs Wladimir right now.

BUT and I can partially agree with Landmine on this, the potential comeback of his brother may actually serve to the detriment of the sport as the two brothers have stated many times that they would definitely not fight each other.

This really wouldn't be good for the sport.


As for the old debate about whether the heavyweight division is the flagship for boxing, well personal opinions may vary but historically it clearly is.

Boxing lives and dies with it's heavyweight division in terms of mainstream appeal.

Some of us may prefer the lower weight classes, especially right now as thats where most of the talent is but historically the heavyweight divison has always been seen as the pinnacle of boxing and indeed of the whole of sport, at least as far as individual events go.

For boxing to remain popular to the mainstream it needs to have a strong heavyweight division.

Personally I think it's a million miles from that, but it has definitely got a bit better over the past couple years. We desperately need a couple great new fighters to break through and make it exciting again, but unfortunately there is just nobody out there.

It wouldn't suprise me if some Pride and UFC fighters decided to try their luck at some point. Mirko Cro Cop or Fedo Emelianko would probably be just as dangerous as Matt Skelton at least and probably a whole lot more, and they would bring some entertainment value back to the sport.

Aside from that, I really can't see anyone coming along unfortunately.

For me the term "save" it's getting lame and old there is always someone who can beat the other.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I think this is quite an interesting thread and I agree partially with most people's opinions.

First off I do think the Klitschkos are VERY important to the heavyweight division. In an era where most of the heavies are old, fat, slow and out of shape the ripped and chiselled Wladimir and hopefully soon his brother as well definitely bring some credibility to the division.

Seriously can you even imagine how bad the division would have looked had not Wlad been in it these past couple years? :-X

Chris Byrd would probably be the Ring champion and Calvin Brock the heir to the throne.

Let's be honest heavyweight boxing needs Wladimir right now.

BUT and I can partially agree with Landmine on this, the potential comeback of his brother may actually serve to the detriment of the sport as the two brothers have stated many times that they would definitely not fight each other.

This really wouldn't be good for the sport.


As for the old debate about whether the heavyweight division is the flagship for boxing, well personal opinions may vary but historically it clearly is.

Boxing lives and dies with it's heavyweight division in terms of mainstream appeal.

Some of us may prefer the lower weight classes, especially right now as thats where most of the talent is but historically the heavyweight divison has always been seen as the pinnacle of boxing and indeed of the whole of sport, at least as far as individual events go.

For boxing to remain popular to the mainstream it needs to have a strong heavyweight division.

Personally I think it's a million miles from that, but it has definitely got a bit better over the past couple years. We desperately need a couple great new fighters to break through and make it exciting again, but unfortunately there is just nobody out there.

It wouldn't suprise me if some Pride and UFC fighters decided to try their luck at some point. Mirko Cro Cop or Fedo Emelianko would probably be just as dangerous as Matt Skelton at least and probably a whole lot more, and they would bring some entertainment value back to the sport.

Aside from that, I really can't see anyone coming along unfortunately.

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You show glimpses of superior Intelect...when you agree with me..
In the cage, UFC or any MMA fighter would ruin ANY boxer.
But in the boxing ring the opposite is true also.
IF any mma guy could fight at a top level as a boxer.....he would
the money is 10....no 100 times as great
I don't think you can name a MMA guy who can box.
There was one, a guy who held a minor belt who did well in MMA but I don't think the opposite will happen with any MMA guy I know of.

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Originally Posted by landmine950

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I think this is quite an interesting thread and I agree partially with most people's opinions.

First off I do think the Klitschkos are VERY important to the heavyweight division. In an era where most of the heavies are old, fat, slow and out of shape the ripped and chiselled Wladimir and hopefully soon his brother as well definitely bring some credibility to the division.

Seriously can you even imagine how bad the division would have looked had not Wlad been in it these past couple years? :-X

Chris Byrd would probably be the Ring champion and Calvin Brock the heir to the throne.

Let's be honest heavyweight boxing needs Wladimir right now.

BUT and I can partially agree with Landmine on this, the potential comeback of his brother may actually serve to the detriment of the sport as the two brothers have stated many times that they would definitely not fight each other.

This really wouldn't be good for the sport.


As for the old debate about whether the heavyweight division is the flagship for boxing, well personal opinions may vary but historically it clearly is.

Boxing lives and dies with it's heavyweight division in terms of mainstream appeal.

Some of us may prefer the lower weight classes, especially right now as thats where most of the talent is but historically the heavyweight divison has always been seen as the pinnacle of boxing and indeed of the whole of sport, at least as far as individual events go.

For boxing to remain popular to the mainstream it needs to have a strong heavyweight division.

Personally I think it's a million miles from that, but it has definitely got a bit better over the past couple years. We desperately need a couple great new fighters to break through and make it exciting again, but unfortunately there is just nobody out there.

It wouldn't suprise me if some Pride and UFC fighters decided to try their luck at some point. Mirko Cro Cop or Fedo Emelianko would probably be just as dangerous as Matt Skelton at least and probably a whole lot more, and they would bring some entertainment value back to the sport.

Aside from that, I really can't see anyone coming along unfortunately.

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You show glimpses of superior Intelect...when you agree with me..
In the cage, UFC or any MMA fighter would ruin ANY boxer.
But in the boxing ring the opposite is true also.
IF any mma guy could fight at a top level as a boxer.....he would
the money is 10....no 100 times as great
I don't think you can name a MMA guy who can box.
There was one, a guy who held a minor belt who did well in MMA but I don't think the opposite will happen with any MMA guy I know of.

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Well Matt Skelton is Britains top heavyweight and is probably going to get a world title shot within the next year or so. He left K-1 at age 34 to take up pro boxing and to be honest and does pretty well so far.

He got robbed in his only loss to Danny Williams last year and then beat him easily in a rematch. He's outmuscled everybody before that and is rough enough to be a handful for most of the current bunch I reckon.

Of course the likes of Wlad would take him apart but I think he could definitely hang with the Shannon Briggs and Oleg Maskaev's of the division.


Someone like Cro Cop or Vanderlai Silva would definitely provide some entertainment and in terms of skill wouldn't really be any worse than Peter.

I honestly think with training someone like Cro Cop could be a force.

And if they allowed him to use his kicks against Vitali you just know his poor face would fall apart.

i dunno bilbo, vitali did pretty decent with his kicks too lol


BUT MILES

If i could just respond to what you said.

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I disagree with your comment about heavyweight boxing being at the forefront. As far as im concerned it doesnt need to be all about the heavyweights. I get more skill and just as much entertainment from boxers from a whole range of divisions.

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I will agree to disagree, because I am not saying that there isn’t just as much skill in the other divisions. But boxing fans like you and I love boxing for the sport it is, But unfortunately it gets most of its recognition from people who could care less about the sport, and just want to watch 2 guys fight until 1 hits the canvas.
However, bilbo makes a good point
“Some of us may prefer the lower weight classes, especially right now as that’s where most of the talent is but historically the heavyweight division has always been seen as the pinnacle of boxing and indeed of the whole of sport, at least as far as individual events go.
For boxing to remain popular to the mainstream it needs to have a strong heavyweight division.”

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As for fighting the mandatories and keeping the belts. Well, Wlad can fight all the mandatories he wants. It wont prove him the best in the division until he begins to unify. I wouldnt mind seeing him trying to avenge a loss or 2 also. We all know the real value of these belts anyways. Calzaghe, as much as I like him, has fought too many mandatories over the years and against who?? Exactly. Keeping the belt and fighting mandatories does not make a great fighter. More is needed. Maybe Wlad will do it. Time will tell on that one.

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Jesus miles, how in the hell can someone UNIFY if they don’t fight the mandatory for the belts that they currently have, and possibly have to drop their belt? Also, how can Wlad Force people like DON king to give up some HW shots? “Wlad has said all along, after every fight, I’m not the champ, because there are other people with belts” so if you want to unify, you have to keep belts to do it. He knows, he wants it.

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You ask me if I would indeed step aside and allow Peter his shot at Maskaev first? My honest answer is that yes I would stand aside. I can see clearly that Peter has fought twice to have his shot. He deserves it. I see no problem in taking a warm up and then fighting the winner or Maskaev: Peter.

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I am not questioning your honesty miles, but I cant honestly say I believe unless I seen you turn down a multi million dollar payday, to Give it to someone else

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And dont give me that bullshit about rules. The boxing commisions change the rules to suit their self indulgent whims at will. How exactly do these mandatories get their positions, they are seldom worthy of a shot!

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So your saying that “champion emeritus” was made up for klitschko?

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Sam Peter excites me more than Vitali Klitschko right now, now that is a fight I want to see. It would cetainly generate more interest than a Maskaev: Klitschko fight!

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To YOU.
But what about the 15+ million people in oleg’s homeland
Or maybe the 143+million in russia, and the 83+ million in germany (where the klits are ever so popular)
Listen, I care about MY entertainment too, and I can understand your interest in a Oleg vs Samuel fight. And its your opinion on how much more you would like to see that fight than vitali vs oleg, I have a different opinion. But IMO where the fight will be held (Moscow), it will sell more, a lot more than samuel peter vs oleg Anywhere else in the world.

The only thing that will save the heavyweight division is if the best fighters fight each other and stop letting politics ruin the sport.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

i dunno bilbo, vitali did pretty decent with his kicks too lol


BUT MILES

If i could just respond to what you said.

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I disagree with your comment about heavyweight boxing being at the forefront. As far as im concerned it doesnt need to be all about the heavyweights. I get more skill and just as much entertainment from boxers from a whole range of divisions.

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I will agree to disagree, because I am not saying that there isn’t just as much skill in the other divisions. But boxing fans like you and I love boxing for the sport it is, But unfortunately it gets most of its recognition from people who could care less about the sport, and just want to watch 2 guys fight until 1 hits the canvas.
However, bilbo makes a good point
“Some of us may prefer the lower weight classes, especially right now as that’s where most of the talent is but historically the heavyweight division has always been seen as the pinnacle of boxing and indeed of the whole of sport, at least as far as individual events go.
For boxing to remain popular to the mainstream it needs to have a strong heavyweight division.”

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As for fighting the mandatories and keeping the belts. Well, Wlad can fight all the mandatories he wants. It wont prove him the best in the division until he begins to unify. I wouldnt mind seeing him trying to avenge a loss or 2 also. We all know the real value of these belts anyways. Calzaghe, as much as I like him, has fought too many mandatories over the years and against who?? Exactly. Keeping the belt and fighting mandatories does not make a great fighter. More is needed. Maybe Wlad will do it. Time will tell on that one.

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Jesus miles, how in the hell can someone UNIFY if they don’t fight the mandatory for the belts that they currently have, and possibly have to drop their belt? Also, how can Wlad Force people like DON king to give up some HW shots? “Wlad has said all along, after every fight, I’m not the champ, because there are other people with belts” so if you want to unify, you have to keep belts to do it. He knows, he wants it.

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You ask me if I would indeed step aside and allow Peter his shot at Maskaev first? My honest answer is that yes I would stand aside. I can see clearly that Peter has fought twice to have his shot. He deserves it. I see no problem in taking a warm up and then fighting the winner or Maskaev: Peter.

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I am not questioning your honesty miles, but I cant honestly say I believe unless I seen you turn down a multi million dollar payday, to Give it to someone else

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And dont give me that bullshit about rules. The boxing commisions change the rules to suit their self indulgent whims at will. How exactly do these mandatories get their positions, they are seldom worthy of a shot!

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So your saying that “champion emeritus” was made up for klitschko?

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Sam Peter excites me more than Vitali Klitschko right now, now that is a fight I want to see. It would cetainly generate more interest than a Maskaev: Klitschko fight!

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To YOU.
But what about the 15+ million people in oleg’s homeland
Or maybe the 143+million in russia, and the 83+ million in germany (where the klits are ever so popular)
Listen, I care about MY entertainment too, and I can understand your interest in a Oleg vs Samuel fight. And its your opinion on how much more you would like to see that fight than vitali vs oleg, I have a different opinion. But IMO where the fight will be held (Moscow), it will sell more, a lot more than samuel peter vs oleg Anywhere else in the world.

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To be fair I was only arguing for myself and not the general fan. In the first quote of mine I did say "As far as Im concerned....". Bilbo did make some excellent points as you stated. Historically the heavyweight division has been the most noticable of the divisions to the casual fan. Historically we've always had fighters who can entertain, from Dempsey through to Tyson and even Holyfield and Lewis. The division is going through a relatively lean patch today. Good fights are pretty few and far between. I maintain that the heavyweight just isnt where its at when it comes down to me and boxing.

In response to your second argument, of course Wlad will lose his belts if he doesnt fight his mandatory. My only concern is if Wlad is fed a diet of jumped up punks who fights solely because Its his obligation to keep the belt. If there are bigger fights out there then they should be made. Of course boxing politics is a slimy, festering place and its always easier said than done. There are big fights that can make money and generate interest and these should be made.

Seriously, If I was Vitali I would have no problem standing aside and fighting the winner of Maskaev: Peter. It would be an even bigger fight and an even bigger payday. Well, worth a few months delay.

I think Peter deserves his shot now because he has paid his sanctioning fees, his dues as it were. Vitali is due his shot too, and he will get it. So I really dont understand the problem with him fighting the winner of Maskaev: Peter. Personally I think Sam Peter is a very improved fighter and that Vitali at 35 and with injuries and lay off is possibly not quite the fighter he was. Sam Peter has a realistic shot of taking Vitali to the limits at this stage and perhaps this is what the Vitali camp feel too. I dont know this of course and it is mere speculation.

A Peter: Vitali fight would be a huge event for heavyweight boxing and more so than Maskaev: Klitschko. Maskaev is not a known fighter and he has a mediocre record. Sam Peter on the other hand is coming off of 2 popular fights with Toney and is now more widely known than Maskaev.

Vitali waiting and then fighting the winner of Maskaev: Peter....this is not just good for me, but for the image of heavyweight boxing in general. A truly mouthwatering matchup!!! :)

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A Peter: Vitali fight would be a huge event for heavyweight boxing and more so than Maskaev: Klitschko. Maskaev is not a known fighter and he has a mediocre record. Sam Peter on the other hand is coming off of 2 popular fights with Toney and is now more widely known than Maskaev.
Vitali waiting and then fighting the winner of Maskaev: Peter....this is not just good for me, but for the image of heavyweight boxing in general. A truly mouthwatering matchup!!!

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So your saying a fight with Samuel peter vs Vitali klitschko would be a bigger event than oleg vs vitali Globaly?

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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A Peter: Vitali fight would be a huge event for heavyweight boxing and more so than Maskaev: Klitschko. Maskaev is not a known fighter and he has a mediocre record. Sam Peter on the other hand is coming off of 2 popular fights with Toney and is now more widely known than Maskaev.
Vitali waiting and then fighting the winner of Maskaev: Peter....this is not just good for me, but for the image of heavyweight boxing in general. A truly mouthwatering matchup!!!

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So your saying a fight with Samuel peter vs Vitali klitschko would be a bigger event than oleg vs vitali Globaly?

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Its quite possible. If Peter beats Maskaev then its a potentially massive fight.

once again miles
Out of respect for you....
i will agree to disagree...
For the simple fact, these two men having fought already in amatures (quite a hoopla there as to what actually happened) and the similar background these men come from would be A LOT larger of an event "globaly". (IMO)
by the way, thanks for bringing an "objective" point of view to this debate, instead of just opinion/emotion based arguments.
Many could learn from you.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

once again miles
Out of respect for you....
i will agree to disagree...
For the simple fact, these two men having fought already in amatures (quite a hoopla there as to what actually happened) and the similar background these men come from would be A LOT larger of an event "globaly". (IMO)
by the way, thanks for bringing an "objective" point of view to this debate, instead of just opinion/emotion based arguments.
Many could learn from you.

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Thanks for those kind words. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, the world would be a dull place if everyone agreed on everything! Ive nothing against opinion based posting though just as long as its backed up by a reasonable argument. If there is nothing of any credence to support it then I lose all interest though. There have been a variety of interesting posts on this thread.