Printable View
In your opinion who do you guys think was or is the greatest boxing fighter of all time?I would have to say Oscar cause of all he has accomplished in the sport of boxing and i dont think there is another boxing fighter who could win six world titles in six weight classes.
jimmy Wilde.
All time it is Ray Robinson...The original Sugar....DLH could not wipe Rays ass.....Six titles in six weight classes...try defending your title 5 times in two weeks....
Then Hank Armstrong...Again six titles uin six weight classes....Try three titles in three weight classes at the same time....
ALI---No need to explain
heres a few
muhammad ali
willie pep
henry armstrong
jimmy wilde
sugar ray robinson
joe louis
honourable mentions
larry holmes
carlos monzon
roberto duran
julio cesar chavez
jack johnson
got to be Homicide Hank, he did three weight world champion simultanously when there was no light welter, light middle etc and he had a pop at the middleweight crown which ended in a draw.. :o
We talking about 'fighters' or just p4p greatest of all time, as in 'fighters' boxers etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
i'll just say ali....but then again sugar ray is,...ok wait....cRAp see how hard this is.
Well 2 things..
1) Modern fighters are better then old fighters
2) great records indicate great fighters
3) undefeated records really set a fighter apart from the crowd
So really the answer is obvious isn't it?
or is 46-0 not Quite long enough? maybe we need 49-0 or 50?
1.Henry Armstorng
2.SRR
3.Willie Pep
4.Benny Leonard
5. Ali
6. Roberto Duran...
...i could go on but Homocide Hank was the best of all time imo
Willy Wise! No seriously Armstrong, Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Duran, Jofre, just to hard to do..
Oscar if he beats Mayweather is in the top 20.
Jofre is probably the most underrated fighter of all time. People often forget about him and his foe Fighting Harata who was also a great fighter. Man Jofre could fight and he was an all time top 10 great.Quote:
Originally Posted by glennf
Correct Boom Boom, Eder Jofre was a legend as a Bantam and his demolition of Saldivar at Feather is to often overlooked as are a lot of the smaller guys.
Ricardo Lopez is another one who will unfortunately have the same fate. I think the lower weights actually have the best fights, but for some reason the lackluster heavyweight division seems to mostly all the coverage...and yeah the Saldivar fight was a great win for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by glennf
When he was in shape and not groggy from binging then crash deiting to lose an insane amount of weight in little time, I think Roberto Duran was almost perfect. Insane stamina, good power, good handspeed, great head movement, a very smart fighter. I think the Roberto Duran who fought Buchanan and Leonard 1 was one of the best fighters I've ever seen.
srr / amstrong vecause of the number of fights is hard to look past them
but i feel roy jones cud have been up there if he took boxing 100% serious from the start
Armstrong, SRL,SRR, Wilde, Pepp....there is just so many to chose from!
That's not always true. For instance look at Nicolay Valuev. He is that 7 ft Russian Heavyweight. He has a great record, but he is a sub-par fighter, and he will only maintain that record if he continues to fight crappy opponents( IE Monty Barret, Owen Beck, or Jamel McCline) or if he just stays in Germany and accepts gift decisions(Larry Donald, John Ruiz).Quote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
So, Valuev is a good argument against records having any significance.
Pound for pound all time list are hard to make for several reasons...One of the biggest I see most often is lack of history.
EG-Not to sound like a broken record but we will use Ray Robinson yet again......
If you are lucky enough to see footage from his welterweight days...He is as fast as anyoneout there today...Unlike many older fighters Ray Jabbed,,,Danced like Ali,,,Used combos even Mosley and Mayweather would be in awe of...But again if you never seen it for yourself it is hard to know exactly what one is speaking about when they mention these things...especially how people ten to exxagerate..
Another example...Jack Dempsey....People talk of Tysons assults in the ring...Jack had no mercy...he pummeled his guys...but again unless you seen it for yourself you can not imagine it's full effect.....
I am lucky enough to have acess to old time footage of such things thanks to my Dad...........If not then I would have a hard time judging certin things...
Soo P4P list are difficult....when you watch shows on ESPN classic and others like it...The so called experts who make these list seem to do it so easily but again they have acess to footage we can only dream of and not just clips or one fight but tons!!!
Agreed Jack Had a masters degree in brutality the guys a heroe of mine even named the dog after him, but i wouldn't put him any where near best boxer list, he was just pitbull terrior inside the ropes. An i have a few of Dempeys film on tapeQuote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcitycobra
Was using Dempsy/Tyson comparison as an example about how you have to see fights or fighters to make actual comparison..and how it is hard to make assumptions or rank guys by record using description of fighters or fights...
As for Jack I have about 15 of his fights on 32mm projector and he was absolutly vicious....again you would have to see it to understand exactly how vicious he was in the ring...If you have footage of him you know exactly what I am talking about when it comes to that aspect of him
WHAT?? Are you serious?? Valuev has defended the WBA Inter-continental Championship 4 timesQuote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
AND then the WBA Heavyweight Championship 5 times! Against the VERY best that the WBA has to offer!!
Its not his fault that guys who look really good against OTHER lesser fighters, like
Jameel McCline: Win against Shannon Briggs (current WBO Champ)
Close SD loss against Chris Byrd ( IBF Champion)
Win over Lance Whittaker ( WBC Continental American Champ)
Monte Barrett:
Wins over Dominic Guinn,MD loss to Joe Mesi,Win over Tim Witherspoon
John Ruiz : Wins over Golota,Rahman,Kirk Johnson,Tucker
Larry Donald : Win over Evander Holyfield,
Clifford Ettiene : Draw against Botha Win over Clay Bey
Look like garbage when they step in against "THE BEAST FROM THE EAST!"
get used to it! VALUEV will make them all look like crap! ESPECIALLY the guys who are used to punching down onto fighters who lay off to the right. It's not that they are so bad! It's that he is SO good!
The Klitschkos will be TOTALLY baffled against Valuev. As will PETER,MASKAEV,BRIGGS and all the rest! Worn down,out punched,out jabbed, clubbed into submission! You think Wlad and Vitali have gotton worn out and tired out in past fights!? wait till the 350 pound giant starts whacking and pushing them around the ring! They'll have their mouths hanging open (as borat says) "Like mouth of tired dog!"
Look how easily he out jabs McCline (6'6" right between Wlad at 6'5" and Vitali at 6'7")
And John Ruiz who at 6' 2 1/2" is more Briggs/Peter/Maskaev sized
His jab is like a massive steel piston backed by 350 pounds that comes rocketing from 7 feet away and smashes into your face, a brutalizing painful punishing jab!, try and get inside...Then when you do he clubs you with viscious inside shots that make it feel like your surrounded by an angry mob of cops with nightsticks!
I rest my case...
John Ruiz : Wins over Golota,Rahman,Kirk Johnson,Tucker= yea but ruiz was down twice against golota and alot of people think golota got robbed ruiz also got destroyed in less than 40 seconds by tua and golota has been destroyed twice in 1st roundQuote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
Larry Donald : Win over Evander Holyfield,= winning against what 42 or 41 holyfield ?? you and i both know prime holyfield would beat larry donald with ease and valuev struggled to beat old shot larry donald just about scraping by with decision oh yes very impressive
Clifford Ettiene : Draw against Botha Win over Clay Bey= yes the black rhino also got destroyed in 1 by a past it shot tyson
im not even going to bother with rest
lets be honest here if valuev was in era of early 90s when you had bowe lewis prime holyfield razor ruddock mike tyson ray mercer tommy morrison oliver mccall george foreman
valuev would get destroyed by most of the opponents i listed and id be very shocked if he would even hold version of heavyweight title
[/quote] John Ruiz : Wins over Golota,Rahman,Kirk Johnson,Tucker= yea but ruiz was down twice against golota and alot of people think golota got robbed ruiz also got destroyed in less than 40 seconds by tua and golota has been destroyed twice in 1st round
Larry Donald : Win over Evander Holyfield,= winning against what 42 or 41 holyfield ?? you and i both know prime holyfield would beat larry donald with ease and valuev struggled to beat old shot larry donald just about scraping by with decision oh yes very impressive
Clifford Ettiene : Draw against Botha Win over Clay Bey= yes the black rhino also got destroyed in 1 by a past it shot tyson
im not even going to bother with rest
lets be honest here if valuev was in era of early 90s when you had bowe lewis prime holyfield razor ruddock mike tyson ray mercer tommy morrison oliver mccall george foreman
valuev would get destroyed by most of the opponents i listed and id be very shocked if he would even hold version of heavyweight title
[/quote]
WOW that's the most EXCUSES I've seen in a post in a long time...
Think you can do it for all 46 wins?? what about when he gets to 49?
55? 60? yawn...try as you might you can't somehow erase or diminish Valuevs PERFECT 46-0 record.
Had he fought in the era of Bowe,Lewis,Evander,Ruddock,Tyson,Mercer,Morrison,M cCall..........same result...you'd be making different excuses as to why he beat them...admit it...your a hater....Give the guy the credit he so obviously deserves as the
GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT ON PLANET EARTH
P.S. I think Big George at 250 is mayeb the ONLY guy who would have a real chance against Valuev as he is probably Physically stronger.
And MAYBE Larry Holmes just cuz he was SO good and had the best jab ever in boxing.
(but please don't tell anyone I said that...I'm on salary with the Russian Boxing Federation and Ringling Brothers Circus travelling freak show)
John Ruiz : Wins over Golota,Rahman,Kirk Johnson,Tucker= yea but ruiz was down twice against golota and alot of people think golota got robbed ruiz also got destroyed in less than 40 seconds by tua and golota has been destroyed twice in 1st roundQuote:
Originally Posted by landmine950
Larry Donald : Win over Evander Holyfield,= winning against what 42 or 41 holyfield ?? you and i both know prime holyfield would beat larry donald with ease and valuev struggled to beat old shot larry donald just about scraping by with decision oh yes very impressive
Clifford Ettiene : Draw against Botha Win over Clay Bey= yes the black rhino also got destroyed in 1 by a past it shot tyson
im not even going to bother with rest
lets be honest here if valuev was in era of early 90s when you had bowe lewis prime holyfield razor ruddock mike tyson ray mercer tommy morrison oliver mccall george foreman
valuev would get destroyed by most of the opponents i listed and id be very shocked if he would even hold version of heavyweight title
[/quote]
WOW that's the most EXCUSES I've seen in a post in a long time...
Think you can do it for all 46 wins?? what about when he gets to 49?
55? 60? yawn...try as you might you can't somehow erase or diminish Valuevs PERFECT 46-0 record.
Had he fought in the era of Bowe,Lewis,Evander,Ruddock,Tyson,Mercer,Morrison,M cCall..........same result...you'd be making different excuses as to why he beat them...admit it...your a hater....Give the guy the credit he so obviously deserves as the
GREATEST HEAVYWEIGHT ON PLANET EARTH
P.S. I think Big George at 250 is mayeb the ONLY guy who would have a real chance against Valuev as he is probably Physically stronger.
And MAYBE Larry Holmes just cuz he was SO good and had the best jab ever in boxing.
(but please don't tell anyone I said that...I'm on salary with the Russian Boxing Federation and Ringling Brothers Circus travelling freak show)
[/quote]
So let me get this straight. You're saying that Foreman and Holmes would be the only fighters of ALL TIME who could beat Valuev? So you mean to tell me that Valuev is a top 3 all time heavyweight? Valuev isn't a top 100 all time heavyweight. I've gotta post more so I can SC some fools.
Ray Robinson
Have to agree with Robinson, Armstrong, Wilde, Pep, Leonard and Ali, but what about Archie Moore? He fought a long time and was well into his 40's (or even older) when he finally retired. I believe he holds the record for the most KO's. Took him a long time to get a shot at the light heavyweight title, most guys were probably afraid of him. Downside, didn't have any success at heavyweight.