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I am not massively familiar with Tszyu and his previus fights, but after seeing Mayweather acting the fool in the press conference with De La Hoya, I would love to see him put on his ass in that fight. It got me thinking, I don't think De La Hoya has the quality anymore to beat Mayweather, but would the Kostya Tszyu of 2002-2003 have been able to do it? As I have said, I'm not the most knowledgable of people on Tszyu's history, so i would like to hear some opinions on it.
A classic match up of 2 greats. At 140 it would be very interesting. Tszyu was a master at figuring out his opponents style and adapting his own to control fights. I just think PBF would've had too much for him
PBF UD
tszyu packs a hell of a punch. his sparring partners used to say he hits like a heavyweight aparently. must be a bit of an exageration i know but he was awesome and i reckon he could very well have had the power to put mayweather on his arse. but as we havent realy seen floyd take a decent punch yet we cant really judge how he would have handled geting hit by a fighter like kostya.
PBF would have had to stay away from Tszyu's right all fight long....he could have done it but KT was mighty quick and he took out PBF's good buddy Zab Judah pretty quick.
Too dangerous of a fight for Floyd to make it....and so he didn't
agreed. mayweather chose to go for gatti to win an easier title and then claim he beat the best in the division and was the man at 140. i remember watchin an interview with floyd that someone put on where he was talkin about paper champs and all kinds of shit. the interviewer ended up making him look silly to cut a long story short.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
....I don't blame him for skipping Tszyu....Mosley and De la Hoya did it but then again they made up for that by making some big fights at 147.
I always wondered how KT would have done at 147
First, Mayweather never fought at 140 until May 2004, so if Floyd and Tszyu ever would have fought, it would've been in 2004 or early 2005. This is during the time when Tszyu took a 16 month layoff prior to fighting Hatton in mid-2005.
Tszyu was a great champ, but IMO he would've been beaten rather soundly by Floyd. The only time Tszyu fought during this time period was when he lost to Hatton. If he had to quit on his stool against Hatton, then he would have been beaten by Mayweather as well. That is, unless you think that Ricky Hatton is a better fighter than Floyd Mayweather :rotflmao:
One thing everybody fails to consider is that Tszyu was a Showtime fighter, whereas Mayweather and Gatti were both signed to deals with HBO. Those two networks don't work together, unless it's a huge exception like Lewis and Tyson. To ignore the politics of the sport is avoiding the whole story regarding any potential fights with Tszyu.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
Mosley jumped right from 135 to 147 to take a big fight with DLH, so Tszyu wasn't an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
As for DLH, see my above comment about network politics. DLH has been the cornerstone of HBO Boxing for over a decade. As long as Tszyu was with Showtime, I don't see where a fight would've been a possibility.
I thought zab was going to win when they fought and when Kostya knocked him down and he did that silly dance i knew then how good he really was i pick Kostya of 2002/2003 to ko Floyd in pretty much the same fashion thinking of Zab now doing that silly dance still makes me laugh :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Then by your rational the Tyson-Lewis fight among many others should never have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
The fact is Tszyu was a great champion and he was a scary fighter....he wasn't worth the risk is a better assesment of the situation.
I think Ricky Hatton has a better chin than Floyd Mayweather Jr.
I'd agree with that Floyd got shook up by Demarcus Corley he did had some jelly legs ;)
Did you even bother to read my post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I said the two networks don't work together unless it's a megafight like Lewis-Tyson. While Mayweather-Tszyu would have been a big fight, it wouldn't have had 1/10 of the mainstream appeal that Lewis-Tyson did. It wouldn't have given the networks the financial incentive to work together.
Based on what evidence?Quote:
I think Ricky Hatton has a better chin than Floyd Mayweather Jr.
I guess based on Ricky having been hit in his career and mayweather not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
This however, is not a Hatton- Mayweather discussion, so try to keep it on track. As for the politics, although worth a mention, are not reall relevant. I was not asking if the fight could have happened, but what the outcome would have been if it had.
If Mayweather had fought Tszyu at any point prior to that year he took off before hatton, we'd be calling it the Mayweather shuffle.
And while I don't beleive Hatton to be better than PBF, he would have a lot better chance of making a guy quit on his stool. Hatton's body attack that night was shades of Lamotta. All PBF could do against Tszyu is run around hoping to score enough points to get a decision without getting caught and KTFO.
sweat pea by your logic then the fact that tszyu knocked out zab whereas floyd had to go the 12 with him makes kostya a better fighter than floyd then does it?Quote:
If he had to quit on his stool against Hatton, then he would have been beaten by Mayweather as well. That is, unless you think that Ricky Hatton is a better fighter than Floyd Mayweather
it doesnt work like that mate and you should know that. i seriously doubt that floyd would beat tszyu before hatton did. floyd would have boxed to a decision at best.
I haven't seen anything from Floyd that would make me think KT could catch him with a big shot and knock him out though. I think anyone who says so is basing it on pure speculation.
Floyd's got a chin and a rolling defense to absorb shots well to minimize impact when he gets hit.
If we're talking about the Floyd who injured his shoulder in 2002, the injury might put him in a precarious position to get tagged. But if we're talking pre-injury or 2003, Mayweather had perfected the left shoulder roll by then and I don't see KT landing an effective straight right well enough against his defense.
Yes I understand, but it does seem a bit strange that BOTH Shane and Oscar skipped over 140???Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Shane and Oscar vs any top tier fighter is a SUPERFIGHT and fights vs Tszyu would have been no different.
as per Ricky's chin, Ricky got hit by Kostya Tszyu a number of times.....Floyd has yet to really be hit by anyone and his family history is that of lackluster chins.....and it does matter as you'll see vs ODH
No it doesn't. If you look thru all my posts on this site, I think I'm pretty consistent in my stance that KO victories and decision victories are the same, they're both victories.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
One punch KO's like Tszyu's over Judah get fans excited and they look cool but they don't prove anything regarding overall dominance that a decisive decision victory can't prove.
The whole game of "This guy won by KO and this other guy won by decision, therefore KO guy is better" is a rather foolish argument in my opinion.
Because Hatton does what better than Mayweather?Quote:
i seriously doubt that floyd would beat tszyu before hatton did.
And that counts for less than winning because a guy quits with a round to go?Quote:
floyd would have boxed to a decision at best.
Nice match up but I think Tszyu takes this one by UD dropping PBF in the later rounds to seal the deal.....
As Lyle pointed out about PBF skipping Tszyu, Tszyus not the only fighter PBF skipped he skpped a shit! load of Champs and fought the OTHER guys...
Exactly what he did at Welter....
hatton applies pressure, generally has a higher workrate and roughs fighters up better than mayweather and has a higher KO percentage. thats about it really and i could make a list of even more things that floyd does better than hatton.
hatton had the right tactic to beat tszyu because he swarmed him, out worked him and roughed him up. that is something that floyd couldnt do and in my opinion the best floyd could do against kostya is use his superior boxing skill and try and stay out of the way of tszyu's right hand all night and maybe pinch a decision.
and yes a KO victory is generally more impressive than a points decision. that is generally the public opinion mate.
http://www.pwnedcake.com/misc/floyd-vs-kt.jpg
I have a dream
It's nothing to do with Hatton. Completely contrasting styles and how hatton did against Tszyu would have no bearing on how mayweather would do. If your in the comparing business then how about comparing Zab Judah to mayweather because he's more similar than Hatton is. And we saw what happened to ZabQuote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
meowza,Quote:
Originally Posted by meowza
I just payed close attention to your sig. and realised the crowd.....
:lolhaha:
They look likes ghosts...... ;D
were you guys (lyle and j birdy) even following boxing around the time floyd was at 140?
do you not remember that floyd was gonna fight tszyu after the hatton fight?
remember what happened?
hatton beats tszyu, then floyd wants to fight hatton but warren didnt want ricky fighting in the us and floyd didnt want to come to england (smart move imo, because the fight probably would have went 12 and theres no way in hell pbf gets a decision in manchester regardless of how lopsided the fight would have been)
CC, bruv. Top pic ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by meowza
Oh, btw. I think 6 or 7 times outta 10 Floyd takes this one by UD but there is a good chance he'd get KTFO... Just cant dismiss the posibility so easily.
Zab and Floyd have similarities, but they're not that similar. Where they are similar is in their raw physical abilities, basically they both have great hand and foot speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ono
But when it comes to actual boxing techniques, there are some pretty big differences. First is the most obvious, which is that Judah is a southpaw, and southpaws are always more vulnerable to straight right hands. It would be much more difficult for Tszyu to land a big right hand on Floyd than Zab.
And Zab, for all his skills, has never been able to use his athleticism to avoid big punches, not just against Tszyu but against any legit fighter.
Mayweather has the most refined defensive technique is all of boxing. He hasn't been able to avoid big punches his whole career because of luck, it's because of skill.
I agree with SweetPea that Floyd is an entirely different fighter than Zab. Floyd is much more complete and is mentally on a completely different level. But people need to understand that Tszyu was MUCH more than a one punch knockout artist. The man was an incredibly intelligent and skilled boxer. If they where to meet years ago in would be by far Floyd's toughest challenge. I just don't understand how people can just flat out say Floyd would just win. You don't underestimate great champions...and Tszyu was a great champion. Not to say Floyd couldn't win...but i could just as well see him losing. Since he has never fought anyone of Tszyu caliber...a fighter with great skill, intelligence, and power...i am not one to just pass judgment so quickly. I would have loved to see them fight.
Juda naturally has a much bigger punch, so he's bound to (naturally) fight different to Floyd. I can't really remember the last time he won a fight where he didn't put the other guy down... He really is a boxer-puncher IMO.
Anyway im off point.
Sweat Pea is probably right about HBO & Showtime... Its a shame really.
He got hit very cleanly against Zab Judah, and didn't even flinch. As fighting Baldomir proved Mayweather is a totally different ball game to fight than Zab. He has a way better defense, and is also the best adapting fighter in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirdy
Floyd ani't zab. PBF would have won by UD.
I agree with every point you make here.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin
Tszyu was a great champion and much more than just a puncher. And Tszyu would've been the biggest challenge of Floyd's career at that point.
I just think Tszyu would have lost to a younger, much faster, and more well-rounded fighter like Floyd. I've always thought 140 was actually Floyd's most natural weight class and I wish he had stayed there a little longer.
wasn't kostya injured in 2002.
Isn't this thread theoretical ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'
i know i was just askin
Just playin fella - nice to see you around ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'
Whatever.....the point i was trying to make is, you cannot say Mayweather would beat Tszyu simply because Hatton did. I agree Mayweather has the ability to outbox anyone.....and Kostya would be no exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
First of all it's all hypothetical and it doesn't matter when Mayweather first fought at 140.
The fact is he has fought at 140 at some point. Secondly this is the fight that Mayweather needed to have to shut up all of his detractors.
Forget about the Showtime/HBO thing, if he really wanted it he could have got it.
Mayweather was always a bigger name in the US than Tszyu and something would have been worked out. Tszyu was simply to dangerous an opponent back then, his 1999-2001 form is outstanding and it would be difficult to see how Mayweather would not get caught at some point during the fight.
He would need all of his defensive skills to avoid Tzsyu who banged just as hard with his left as his right.
We only saw the right hand so much because of his dominance over Southpaws.
It would go the distance because of Mayweathers skills but a younger fit Tszyu back then was awesome.
Hatton got him when he was old and struggling with weight and injury.
I think Tszyu is one of the top 3 hardest punchers of all time 140 and below. Hatton used his head to block Tszyu shots, I know it sounds stupid but Kostya's right hand is all about leverage, by standing close he stopped KT getting all that leverage. If Floyd pulls back like Zab did he goes down, but i still think Mayweather wins this one 6 outta 10 times. Ricky beating Tszyu was almost a sure thing stylistically on reflection.
I think Kostya would have knocked Mayweather out. Kostya was so dangerous and even though his footwork was slower his handspeed was shocking and he had incredible power andaccuracy. As proved by Phillips and Hatton the only way to beat Kostya is to tear into him and never take a step back. I dont think Floyd has it in him to fight like this with anybody.
Floyd can stand on the inside and make fighters miss
Yes but which fighters?Quote:
Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'