I've always wondered this,we always discuss the more popular greatest heavyweight etc but what about flyweight? I'm reallly not sure!! Also, what was the best fight which ever ocurred at the weight?? CC's for any responses!
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I've always wondered this,we always discuss the more popular greatest heavyweight etc but what about flyweight? I'm reallly not sure!! Also, what was the best fight which ever ocurred at the weight?? CC's for any responses!
There is only one guy i can think of who you could say yeah, he prolly was the grestest ever flyweight... Jimmy Wilde...
This Link will tell you everything you need to know about Jimmy and why he IMO was the best.
CColI'll check that in a sec,CC!! What were his best fights? Any other contenders?
Pancho Villa?
Spot on, Preme - there are not many weight classes where you can say with any degree of certainty who was the best ever ....... but flyweight is one of them, and Jimmy Wilde is the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Hard to say im not even certain if there is an video of him, he started his pro boxing career before there was ever a flyweight champion, he was the first ever. you can only go by what you read on this guy. The ring used to call Jimmy in the 40's or 50's the best p4p there was.
I have their fight against each other(Pancho and Jimmy) ;D But have not had time to see it yet.I think I have one or two other Wilde fights too although I'd have to check that.
A fight i would love to see, jimmiy was like 31, 32 then 6 years of being the best at his weight, over 800 booth fights, 130 pro fights, that shit catches up on you, and when pancho came out he was to young and youthfull for wilde, although this had its fair share of contreverys too... (one reaosn id love to see it)Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
At the end of the second when the bell went wilde dropped his hands coz the round was over, on doing this pancho hit him with a yhunderous hook, wilde supposedly fought the rest of the fight concust not remebering anythign after the second round... it was his last ever pro fight (adleast recorded)
he ghost with a hammer in his hand
need we go any further ??????
Jimmy Wilde for sure
I know who it ain't......
Pongsaklek hes fighting again some guy whos not even ranked in the top 100.... :-X :(
I sware I can't take it anymore.... This fucker is getting away with that kind of shit!!..... >:mad
Yeah... The Mighty Atom' The Tylorstown Terror :pQuote:
Originally Posted by althetruthhindley
definetly jimmy wilde that man could seriously crackQuote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Miguel Canto was a superb Flyweight IMO there could be an arguement that he might be the best ever.....
Theres a lot to be taken into consideration here; opponents, accomplishments etc. etc.
Mick,fill me in on Canto,what was he like? Record? And will you ever cease your HATRED for Wonjongkam! Has that guy EVER fought someone in the top 10? or even top 20,30? And he keeps racking up the records,I hope that in 40,50,60 years from now they remember that all he ever did was fight bums!
Don't knw greatest but I know great ones like:
Finito Lopez
and actual Ivan Calderon
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Miguel Angel Canto Solis (born January 30, 1948 in Mérida, Yucatán) is a former world boxing champion from Mexico.
Contrary to many Mexican boxers, Canto was not a "slam-bang" type of boxer ("Slam-Bang" is a term that is used to describe boxers whose fights are usually action-packed; Mexican boxers are usually stereotyped as "slam-bangers"). He enjoyed using boxing techniques and knowledge instead of trying to score knockouts in most of his fights. Prove of this is that he only won fifteen fights by knockout, out of more than seventy professional bouts.
Canto began his professional boxing career on February 5, 1969. He became one of those rare cases in boxing, like Alexis Arguello, Henry Armstrong, Bernard Hopkins, and Victor Luvi Callejas and Wilfredo Vazquez, where a boxer loses his first fight and goes on to become a world champion. He lost that day to Raul Hernandez, in Canto's hometown of Mérida, by a knockout in round three.
His first win came against Pedro Martinez, on May 5, 1969, by a four round decision, also at Merida. Canto lost his next fight, but a streak of seven undefeated fights (he went 5-0-2, with 2 knockouts during that streak), led him to fight Vicente Pool on May 27 of 1970, for the Yucatan state Flyweight title. Canto won his first professional belt when he outpointed Pool over twelve rounds. In his first defense, he retained the crown, with a twelve round decision over Jose Luis Cetina. After losing his next bout, a ten round, non title bout, on a decision, he went on to win 21 bouts in a row, including his first bout outside Merida (a two round knockout of Pedro Martinez in Cansahcab, Mexico), and a win over Constantino Garcia on January 22, 1972, by twelve round decision, to claim the Mexican Flyweight title. On January 31, 1973, he fought to a ten round draw (tie) against perennial contender Ignacio Espinal.
After a streak of twenty six fights without loss (including the tie against Espinal), he was given his first world title try, when he fought Betulio Gonzalez in Maracaibo, Venezuela, for the WBC world Flyweight title. In what was also his first fight abroad, he was outpointed by the equally legendary Gonzalez, considered by many to be Venezuela's greatest fighter of all time, on August 4 of 1973.
Canto won six more fights, including two Mexican title defenses, and on January 8, 1975, he became the WBC world Flyweight champion by defeating then champion Shoji Oguma by a fifteen round decision at Sendai, Japan. His dream of becoming a world champion finally realized, Canto was a busy champion, mixing several non-title bouts with his title defenses. He beat Espinal in a rematch by a ten round decision, and his first four title defenses (including a third fight with Espinal, in which Canto retained the title by a fifteen round decision) were made in Mexico, but he eventually became a travelling world champion.
For his fifth title defense, he returned to Venezuela for a rematch with Gonzalez. The second time around, he beat Gonzalez by a fifteen round decision. and, one month later, he retained the crown against Orlando Javierto, once again by fifteen round decision, in Los Angeles, California.
On April 24, 1977, he returned to Venezuela for a third time, retaining the title against Reyes Arnal by a fifteen round decision in Caracas. Two months later, he beat Kimio Furesawa by a fifteen round decision in Tokyo. Then, he and Martin Vargas fought the first of their two bouts: on September 17 1977, Canto outpointed Vargas in his hometown of Mérida.
It was Canto's turn to travel to Vargas' hometown of Santiago, Chile, for their rematch, held on November 30 of the same year. Canto once again retained the title with a fifteen round decision.
In 1978, Canto retained his title three times, including two rematches with Shoji Oguma, both of them held in Japan, and another fifteen round points win over Facomrom Vibonchai, in a fight held at Houston, Texas.
By this time, Canto's name had become a household name all over Latin America, thanks in part to The Ring En Espanol, which gave Canto's fights much coverage.
On February 10 of 1979, he retained the title against a future world champion, Antonio Avelar, by a fifteen round decision, but, on March 18, his reign came to an end, when he lost a fifteen round decision to Chan Hee Park in South Korea.
On September 9 of that same year, he tried to recover the title from Park, but, after fifteen rounds, the champion retained the title with a fifteen round tie.
Canto's career took a downward spiral after that. He went 4-4 in his last eight fights, including a loss and a win against future world champion Gabriel Bernal, a loss against Olympic Bronze medalist Orlando Maldonado of Puerto Rico and another loss against future world title challenger Candido Tellez.
After losing by knockout in round nine to Rodolfo Ortega on July 24, 1982, Canto retired from boxing for good. He had a record of 69 wins, 9 losses and 4 draws (ties), with 15 knockout wins.
Excellent skills, you wanna talk about ring generalship 'The Teacher' had it....Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Hes along the lines of Pernell and 'Finito' Lopez.... Very seasoned and moved well in the ring I've only seen 2 of his fights and highlights on tv of him.....
Pancho Villa was good.....gotta love Jimmy Wilde though
its a tie between Francisco "Pancho Villa" Guilledo and Miguel Canto
Boxing's Best of the Century
BOXING: THE TOP FIGHTERS OF THE CENTURY - Sport - The Independent
I think there are probably four guys in the coversation
Jimmy Wilde-Perhaps the greatest p4p puncher the sport has ever known, The division was more or less created for him. Tiny even for a flyweight. Arguably one of the ten greatest fighters in history.
Pancho Villa-A whirling dervish. Wilde's successor. Defeated Wilde but Wilde was long past it. Dead at 24 with 90+ wins IIRC
Pascual Perez-1950's champ. Ten defenses. Under 5' tall, an attacking machine. Another 80-90 win guy
Miguel Canto-Unlike the other three was not a huge puncher. An excellent boxer and he had something like 14-15 defenses.
In my view the best answer is Wilde. Had Villa lived longer he certainly had a chance to pass him because in the early-mid 1920's the 112's got absolutely loaded with guys like LaBarba and Genaro and Panama Al Brown (how does a 5'11 flyweight grab ya?). Pancho would really have been tested but he could also have rolled up some awfully big wins.
Here's one other thought. By the time Finito Lopez rolled around men were getting weighed in the day before. On a same day weigh-in basis? Finito probably belongs in the discussion. He was taller and longer than anybody I've mentioned except Al Brown.
Nice question BTW!
I'd argue the scores for the top four are effectively a tie.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Jimmy Wilde.
My top Fly's Canto, Gonzalez, Laciar & Oguma.
Gotta mention Masao & Zapata when talking about the small guys.
"Chava" Sanchez & Masao lived a mirrored life... For those interested I did some research on this years ago and posted this.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ntertwine.html
I do not want Shane to win because it would ruin the Pac v Floyd fight totally.
Drinking again????Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I'll go with Finito Lopez.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Jimmy Wilde v Ricardo Lopez would have decided the best of all time , and its a pick em fight for me.
Before u say Lopez fought at a lower weight , so did Jimmy , these are the best of any one time.
LOL I swear I posted this on another thread. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMickDrinking again????Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Jimmy Wilde is the best but the one I have seen would be Chitlada.
Wilde ususally fought in double digits and you can bet when he weighed in over 105 he was fully clothed including shoes. He probably gave up more size in more fights than anyone in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Are you aware Lopez had ZERO flyweight bouts?Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'll go with Finito Lopez.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Wongjonkam is a good fighter but he's not as great as some people rate him.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
During his reigns at flyweight he didn't fight Darchinyan, Montiel, Arce, Donaire, and Narvaez. And he's never even tried to move up in weight. It's sickening.
Who's his next opponent? Some Thai novice making his pro debut? Seems to be the trend with him these days...
Yes but there wasnt a strawweight or junior fly when Wilde was about , Jimmy would have boxed below fly if he had the chance u fuckwit!Quote:
Originally Posted by kidboxinAre you aware Lopez had ZERO flyweight bouts?Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratI'll go with Finito Lopez.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So that makes it ok to rank him as the best flyweight to ever step into a boxing ring? Do you know how silly that sounds?
Lopez is the greatest strawweight of all-time and doesn't deserve to be mentioned alongside the flyweight greats.
Wilde and its not even close.
Yeah he does. Withoput day before weigh-ins, I'm not sure ANY of the straweights make 105 or maybe even 108.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidboxin
This is the easiest weight division in which to answer this questions - Jimmy Wilde was unquestionably the best that ever lived. His record says so, his opponents said so, the press said so, history said so.
Easy.
Our very own (ok adopted Mongolian) Shinny Bayaar! ;D
http://www.shinnybayaar.co.uk/images...y_gallery1.jpg
Jimmy Wilde without a shadow of a doubt. Lopez wasn't a Flyweight so we can't use him as an example. That would be like saying Manny Pacquiao is the best middleweight in the world. Canto was great too and for me second to Wilde!
Lopez never defeated flyweights and his competition at 105-108 was not very impressive. Therefore, I cannot rate him with the flyweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah he does. Withoput day before weigh-ins, I'm not sure ANY of the straweights make 105 or maybe even 108.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidboxin
Are you even aware that Lopez was often times well under the strawweight limit? He was tiny.
Good to see someone with sound logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu