Holyfield Named in Report on Internet Steroid Bust

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/16800369.htm

"...The Albany Times-Union, which broke news of the raids Tuesday, reported that drugs from the Mobile lab were allegedly received by former heavyweight boxing champion Evander Holyfield, Los Angeles Angels outfielder Gary Matthews Jr., former slugger and best-selling author Jose Canseco and former major league pitcher Jason Grimsley, whose home was raided last year by IRS agents...."

"...Approached by a Daily News reporter in New York, Holyfield shook his head when asked about the report. Pat English, the attorney for Holyfield's promotion company Main Events, called the accusation "bull----."

"I've known Evander 20-something years. Plain bull----," English said. "And by the way, he's been regularly tested (for steroids) when he fights in Vegas..."

What do you think? Shane Mosley was on Balco's client list. The same Balco client list that has absolutely destroyed the reputation of baseball players like Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi as well as track stars like Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones. Yet you never hear Mosley's named paired with steroids or more significantly "cheater."

James Toney and Fernando Vargas have both tested positive for steroids. Toney just got two opportunities at a heavyweight title shot. And Vargas seems to have nine lives in boxing.

So I think the big question is...do you even care?

I think that because boxing and football (American) are a lot less cultured sports then baseball and the Olympic games so I don't think fans care that much. The same standards aren't applied to boxing so I don't think we'll hear as much about an all time great heavyweight champion possibly taking steroids as we will about a fairly good baseball player like Gary Matthews Jr. taking steroids.

Anyone else think that maybe almost ALL boxers are on steroids ?

As depressing a thought as it is, I'm sure there are some boxers out there who are on steroids, and Toney was one guy who really needed them to muscle up for the HW division, but this is just something that we have to leave down to the authorities and hope that the random drug testing is enough to deter most of the fighters.

There will always be someone who thinks they won't get caught, who thinks they can outsmart the system, but I hope they get busted and banned. I'd like to see longer bans for positive druyg tests, maybe 2 or 3 years minimum, because that will really decimate their career, and make people realise that they are not to be messed with.

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

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Originally Posted by Poom

Anyone else think that maybe almost ALL boxers are on steroids ?

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I'm not in any gyms but...I mean when you get tested, you're getting tested by state commisions. You're getting tested by the government. Or at least it's perceived that way. It's hard to sneak one by the government and that's one advantage boxing has over any other sport. Baseball is getting tested by...baseball. Boxing is being tested by the government so I wouldn't think steroids are so widespread in boxing.

But again...I'm not in any gyms and I don't know what's going on in these boxer's bathrooms or anything but you would think more fighters would get caught if EVERYONE used them.

I'd say 80% of RB's in the NFL or using.

Also, chemists are always working on new steroids that they don't have a test for yet.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

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To be honest that kindof makes sense. I read an article once before about the various banned substances in sports (not only boxing and also not just steroids but a lot of lesser things) and it makes you wonder - steroids - when combined with proper training make you faster, stronger, etc - banned. Energy drinks such as Lucozade - when combined with proper training make you faster, stronger, etc - perfectly legal. Really whats the difference? Now im not saying I agree with the use of steroids but if they really were as widespread as some people believe (and they're probably not) then would it not make sense to just give up the testing and let the athletes get on with it? Just made me think.

Holyfield has been tested many times over the past 5 years around the time he fought Ruiz and never been tested positive. Either way at this point it makes no difference to me. Maybe they will suspend him so he cant fight.

Does anyone know what the drug testing procedure is prior to fights?
I know they take blood for an HIV test, but do they do the drug test with just a urine sample or do they test the blood for drugs too?

Because HGH doesn't show up in a urine test, a fighter could take that and never show up positive if he's not blood tested.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Holyfield has been tested many times over the past 5 years around the time he fought Ruiz and never been tested positive. Either way at this point it makes no difference to me. Maybe they will suspend him so he cant fight.

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The thing is though, chemist are constantly ahead of the game. The whole Balco thing was big because "the cream" and "the clear" hadn't even been officially recognized as steroids. Chemist are working to constantly stay ahead of the curve. Testing reforms take place oh once a decade. Maybe twice. These chemist are working CONSTANTLY, there is even a term for it. "Designer steroids" is what they call them. And on top of that, they are also working on additional masking agents.

One thing though, the name they trace Holyfield back through is a supposed alias named Evan Fields. But apparently the reporters felt strongly enough to believe it was Holyfield to publish his name.

One thing for sure though, this is only the tip of the iceberg.

i wonder if hed have had so much "heart" (been a punching bag that just keeps taking shots) if he wouldnt have been all juiced up?

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

i wonder if hed have had so much "heart" (been a punching bag that just keeps taking shots) if he wouldnt have been all juiced up?

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Now that's jumping to conclusions a little bit to fast right?

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Holyfield has been tested many times over the past 5 years around the time he fought Ruiz and never been tested positive. Either way at this point it makes no difference to me. Maybe they will suspend him so he cant fight.

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The thing is though, chemist are constantly ahead of the game. The whole Balco thing was big because "the cream" and "the clear" hadn't even been officially recognized as steroids. Chemist are working to constantly stay ahead of the curve. Testing reforms take place oh once a decade. Maybe twice. These chemist are working CONSTANTLY, there is even a term for it. "Designer steroids" is what they call them. And on top of that, they are also working on additional masking agents.

One thing though, the name they trace Holyfield back through is a supposed alias named Evan Fields. But apparently the reporters felt strongly enough to believe it was Holyfield to publish his name.

One thing for sure though, this is only the tip of the iceberg.

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Well they have a lot to prove if is Holyfield is indeed Evan Fields. Who knows who was on what computer and when. I have have a hard time believing Holy uses steroids. Steroid users eventually get careless and over the years back when they didnt have these masking agents he would have been found out.

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

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I completely agree with you. I really don't see the big deal. If it is because of one fighter or any athlete for that matter gaining an unfair advantage then what about those athletes who can only afford to train part time?

Should they outlaw being able to devote yourself full time to your chosen sport because others like the world's greatest dad Bonsante have to work the nightshift at Walmart?

Personally that to me is more unfair than steroids. Poor Anthony has to train during the day when he should be sleeping, then goes to work ALL NIGHT, comes back, takes the kids to school, quick nap, train, back to work etc.

John Duddy his next opponent has no job to worry about, has a fulltime trainer, coaching staff etc and is devoted 24/7 to winning his fights.

Under these circumstances I'd be all for Bonsante being able to take whatever the hell he wanted. :-\

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

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I completely agree with you. I really don't see the big deal. If it is because of one fighter or any athlete for that matter gaining an unfair advantage then what about those athletes who can only afford to train part time?

Should they outlaw being able to devote yourself full time to your chosen sport because others like the world's greatest dad Bonsante have to work the nightshift at Walmart?

Personally that to me is more unfair than steroids. Poor Anthony has to train during the day when he should be sleeping, then goes to work ALL NIGHT, comes back, takes the kids to school, quick nap, train, back to work etc.

John Duddy his next opponent has no job to worry about, has a fulltime trainer, coaching staff etc and is devoted 24/7 to winning his fights.

Under these circumstances I'd be all for Bonsante being able to take whatever the hell he wanted. :-\

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if they allowed steroids then lazy fighters who dont bother to train would just use them constantly and say other guy trained his hardest and other guy just used steroids and guy with steroids won would that be fair hell no :P

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

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I completely agree with you. I really don't see the big deal. If it is because of one fighter or any athlete for that matter gaining an unfair advantage then what about those athletes who can only afford to train part time?

Should they outlaw being able to devote yourself full time to your chosen sport because others like the world's greatest dad Bonsante have to work the nightshift at Walmart?

Personally that to me is more unfair than steroids. Poor Anthony has to train during the day when he should be sleeping, then goes to work ALL NIGHT, comes back, takes the kids to school, quick nap, train, back to work etc.

John Duddy his next opponent has no job to worry about, has a fulltime trainer, coaching staff etc and is devoted 24/7 to winning his fights.

Under these circumstances I'd be all for Bonsante being able to take whatever the hell he wanted. :-\

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if they allowed steroids then lazy fighters who dont bother to train would just use them constantly and say other guy trained his hardest and other guy just used steroids and guy with steroids won would that be fair hell no :P

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Sounds fair to me. I personally would love to see some fighters get injected with Kevlar armour under their skin and to some kind of bionic arm insertions!

It's the 21st century for fuk's sake, we should be saving the heavyweight division by creating a race of super fighters.

Who would bother to watch UFC or Pride if the heavyweight boxing scene was ruled over by Russian Terminators and armour plated super hero's.

They would be ten times bigger than Tyson in his hayday, they should make this happen.........

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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did i say tyson used steroids ??? and how do i have it backwards? would you care to elaborate! have you ever used them or just read magazine clippings....you sound very uneducated on the matter and its almost impossible to huge without steroids......

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Originally Posted by beerjelly

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

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To be honest that kindof makes sense. I read an article once before about the various banned substances in sports (not only boxing and also not just steroids but a lot of lesser things) and it makes you wonder - steroids - when combined with proper training make you faster, stronger, etc - banned. Energy drinks such as Lucozade - when combined with proper training make you faster, stronger, etc - perfectly legal. Really whats the difference? Now im not saying I agree with the use of steroids but if they really were as widespread as some people believe (and they're probably not) then would it not make sense to just give up the testing and let the athletes get on with it? Just made me think.

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I think the issue is that steroids are actaully pretty dangerous , and have lots of weird side effects etc, and athletes should not have to think that they have no choice but to do this mind and body altering thing to compete in a sport.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Who cares? I personally think that we, as sports fans, are entitled to see the best athletes that science can produce!!!! ;D Im really only half kidding.

---

I completely agree with you. I really don't see the big deal. If it is because of one fighter or any athlete for that matter gaining an unfair advantage then what about those athletes who can only afford to train part time?

Should they outlaw being able to devote yourself full time to your chosen sport because others like the world's greatest dad Bonsante have to work the nightshift at Walmart?

Personally that to me is more unfair than steroids. Poor Anthony has to train during the day when he should be sleeping, then goes to work ALL NIGHT, comes back, takes the kids to school, quick nap, train, back to work etc.

John Duddy his next opponent has no job to worry about, has a fulltime trainer, coaching staff etc and is devoted 24/7 to winning his fights.

Under these circumstances I'd be all for Bonsante being able to take whatever the hell he wanted. :-\

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if they allowed steroids then lazy fighters who dont bother to train would just use them constantly and say other guy trained his hardest and other guy just used steroids and guy with steroids won would that be fair hell no :P

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Sounds fair to me. I personally would love to see some fighters get injected with Kevlar armour under their skin and to some kind of bionic arm insertions!

It's the 21st century for fuk's sake, we should be saving the heavyweight division by creating a race of super fighters.

Who would bother to watch UFC or Pride if the heavyweight boxing scene was ruled over by Russian Terminators and armour plated super hero's.

They would be ten times bigger than Tyson in his hayday, they should make this happen.........

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CC Bilbo i agree. Imagine Valuev on juice!!! He'd KO people with his bitch tits ;D

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Originally Posted by MR T

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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did i say tyson used steroids ??? and how do i have it backwards? would you care to elaborate! have you ever used them or just read magazine clippings....you sound very uneducated on the matter and its almost impossible to huge without steroids......

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My point is that you dont have to use steroids to get big. There are plenty of athletes with a holyfield phisique that never touched them. People on steroids only have to work harder?? How is that. Sticking a needle in your arm isnt the hardest workout. Personally i dont respect athletes that juice up and as a boxer it definately doesnt help you perform in any way

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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did i say tyson used steroids ??? and how do i have it backwards? would you care to elaborate! have you ever used them or just read magazine clippings....you sound very uneducated on the matter and its almost impossible to huge without steroids......

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My point is that you dont have to use steroids to get big. There are plenty of athletes with a holyfield phisique that never touched them. People on steroids only have to work harder?? How is that. Sticking a needle in your arm isnt the hardest workout. Personally i dont respect athletes that juice up and as a boxer it definately doesnt help you perform in any way

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What? Of course it helps and a lot. Id guess 90%+ of the top ten in each dev take some form of steroids,hgh,epo,etc...they DO help and for the amount of $$$ the elite boxers make its worth it and really they have no choice but to take them because their opponents are too.

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Originally Posted by 1st rd ko

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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did i say tyson used steroids ??? and how do i have it backwards? would you care to elaborate! have you ever used them or just read magazine clippings....you sound very uneducated on the matter and its almost impossible to huge without steroids......

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My point is that you dont have to use steroids to get big. There are plenty of athletes with a holyfield phisique that never touched them. People on steroids only have to work harder?? How is that. Sticking a needle in your arm isnt the hardest workout. Personally i dont respect athletes that juice up and as a boxer it definately doesnt help you perform in any way

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What? Of course it helps and a lot. Id guess 90%+ of the top ten in each dev take some form of steroids,hgh,epo,etc...they DO help and for the amount of $$$ the elite boxers make its worth it and really they have no choice but to take them because their opponents are too.

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Im speaking off experience. i never touched the stuff but i have worked with guys who have and im telling you it ruined them mentally and slowed them down phisically. Now i can only think of maybe a couple boxers i know professional and amateur that use them 99% dont. Im talking about illegal steroids not supplements, etc. Ive trained with some very sucessful pros that fought at high levels and they werent concerned with what their opponents were doing or not.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I'm sure there are some boxers out there who are on steroids

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Understatement of the year.

I'm sure steroids are just as rampant in boxing in boxing as they are in any other sport, probably even moreso do the conditioning required to be a top level professional boxer. I'm not niave about it, I know that chances are my favorite boxers of today probably use steroids.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by 1st rd ko

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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did i say tyson used steroids ??? and how do i have it backwards? would you care to elaborate! have you ever used them or just read magazine clippings....you sound very uneducated on the matter and its almost impossible to huge without steroids......

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My point is that you dont have to use steroids to get big. There are plenty of athletes with a holyfield phisique that never touched them. People on steroids only have to work harder?? How is that. Sticking a needle in your arm isnt the hardest workout. Personally i dont respect athletes that juice up and as a boxer it definately doesnt help you perform in any way

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What? Of course it helps and a lot. Id guess 90%+ of the top ten in each dev take some form of steroids,hgh,epo,etc...they DO help and for the amount of $$$ the elite boxers make its worth it and really they have no choice but to take them because their opponents are too.

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Im speaking off experience. i never touched the stuff but i have worked with guys who have and im telling you it ruined them mentally and slowed them down phisically. Now i can only think of maybe a couple boxers i know professional and amateur that use them 99% dont. Im talking about illegal steroids not supplements, etc. Ive trained with some very sucessful pros that fought at high levels and they werent concerned with what their opponents were doing or not.

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EPO wont slow you down. The perfect drug for lower weight classes. Ruin guys mentally? That simply isnt possible. Steroids and the like do not effect your brain. "Roid rage" and such are myths. As far as slowing a boxer down, I can only see that happening to a boxer in a lower dev who put on to much muscle. Even then with a good "trainer" they will figure out the right combo of steroids,hgh,epo and whatever else some chemist can create. "Steroids" work,no doubt about it.

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Originally Posted by 1st rd ko

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by 1st rd ko

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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I dont know where you get your info but you got it backward my friend Steroids harms your body and yes yes you can bulk up naturally. Tyson never used steroids

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did i say tyson used steroids ??? and how do i have it backwards? would you care to elaborate! have you ever used them or just read magazine clippings....you sound very uneducated on the matter and its almost impossible to huge without steroids......

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My point is that you dont have to use steroids to get big. There are plenty of athletes with a holyfield phisique that never touched them. People on steroids only have to work harder?? How is that. Sticking a needle in your arm isnt the hardest workout. Personally i dont respect athletes that juice up and as a boxer it definately doesnt help you perform in any way

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What? Of course it helps and a lot. Id guess 90%+ of the top ten in each dev take some form of steroids,hgh,epo,etc...they DO help and for the amount of $$$ the elite boxers make its worth it and really they have no choice but to take them because their opponents are too.

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Im speaking off experience. i never touched the stuff but i have worked with guys who have and im telling you it ruined them mentally and slowed them down phisically. Now i can only think of maybe a couple boxers i know professional and amateur that use them 99% dont. Im talking about illegal steroids not supplements, etc. Ive trained with some very sucessful pros that fought at high levels and they werent concerned with what their opponents were doing or not.

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EPO wont slow you down. The perfect drug for lower weight classes. Ruin guys mentally? That simply isnt possible. Steroids and the like do not effect your brain. "Roid rage" and such are myths. As far as slowing a boxer down, I can only see that happening to a boxer in a lower dev who put on to much muscle. Even then with a good "trainer" they will figure out the right combo of steroids,hgh,epo and whatever else some chemist can create. "Steroids" work,no doubt about it.

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errr they dont effect you mentally... Steroids are mostly basically hormones , they effect your brain alot during and after the cycle, I have a body building buddy who when he finished his roid cycle, started crying everynight because of the lack of testostorone he was naturally producing.


Still i do agree, steroids definately would work for boxing , and im sure do.

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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Ist of March and we already have dumbest post of the year. You obviously do not know enough abput steroids to defend them or accuse somebody else of taking them.

If your on a steroid cycle you might have the extra incentive to work out harder for the duration of the cycle and the pct but to say a juicer works harder than a natural athlete or bodybuilder basically tells me you don't know a great deal about working out naturally. Just because a guy is big, it doesn't mean he is on steroids. You sound like a jealous skinny guy who is thinking about trying them.

A drug-free person working out side-by-side with a user will never keep up. The user will excede them by leaps and bounds. The drug-free person can still get bulk up and get strong but it will look more natural and take much longer to achieve. Also, when the user stops taking they will backslide very quickly.

Diet also makes a huge difference. Drug-free lifters that eat right can achieve the young holyfield look. No problem.

If you see a guy in the gym squatting 1200 pounds he's a user...

Of course people always had their doubts about Evander.....he's been in top shape for how long now???

I wouldn't be surprised if he's been using roids or hgh.....the thing with this steroid bust is the drugs were only SENT to the athletes you cannot assume they used them....but I'm sure the athletes will be watched carefully from now on.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by MR T

society make out steroids to be worse than they really are!....people have the idea that roids will make you super strong like ivan drago,and its just not the case! all roids do is help repair damaged musle tissue so you can work out harder.......if anything people on steroids have to work out harder than those who do it naturally.

.....and holfeild was definatly on the juice at some point in his career...its almost impossible for someone to bulk up that much naturally

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Ist of March and we already have dumbest post of the year. You obviously do not know enough abput steroids to defend them or accuse somebody else of taking them.

If your on a steroid cycle you might have the extra incentive to work out harder for the duration of the cycle and the pct but to say a juicer works harder than a natural athlete or bodybuilder basically tells me you don't know a great deal about working out naturally. Just because a guy is big, it doesn't mean he is on steroids. You sound like a jealous skinny guy who is thinking about trying them.

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IM 100 KG OR 215 POUNDS SO YEAH IM REAL JEALOUS SKINNY GUY AND THANX FOR THE SC for voicing my opinion i am sure i know more than you about roids and for the last fuking time it is impossible to get huge naturally you have to take creatine,tribulus,protien,supplements does that sound natural to you

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

A drug-free person working out side-by-side with a user will never keep up. The user will excede them by leaps and bounds. The drug-free person can still get bulk up and get strong but it will look more natural and take much longer to achieve. Also, when the user stops taking they will backslide very quickly.

Diet also makes a huge difference. Drug-free lifters that eat right can achieve the young holyfield look. No problem.

If you see a guy in the gym squatting 1200 pounds he's a user...

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cc thats all i was trying to say is that roids will alow you to work out harder,hence you will get bigger quickly.....but some on this board is having trouble taking this info in ???

so let me get this straight...................holyfield who was one of the smallest heavyweight champs ever at 204lbs, was never a big puncher was never a strong man bullying fighters, was never the most athletic as he couldnt move out the way of punches,as he aged his athletis abillity and stamina deteriated rapidly, i lost count the number off times commeters said holy just cant box for 3 mins around anymore but he was on steriods coz some guys think a coded name is his on some file and alot of guys here straight away buy it

funny