Which current active fighter has a more sound legacy than PBF?

I believe if Floyd retires after delahoya fight win lose or draw his legacy will not be that profound to be considered in the top ten greatest of all time, he definetly has potential to be on that list but would have to fight for a little longer and more quality opponents.

I think fighters like bernard hopkins, roy jones, Barrera, and oscar(if he wins the PBF fight) have a more sound legacy than floyd

OLDH
Wright
B-Hop
Barrerra
Holyfield

Sadly, that's about it.

This man dominated a decade (90's) he will have a greater legacy. Oscar has to many questionable decisions.

I'd have to go with ODLH and maybe Roy Jones...PBF hasnt loss and he is dominating,so I dont see anyone topping him anytime soon.I also dont understand people saying that he has to fight Cotto,Hatton,Mosley,Margo,etc...b4 he retires to solidify his status.Lets be real...none of them can beat PBF.I say fight DLH then Hatton then hang em up.

Toney, Pac and Mosley up there with him if not better. Floyds an excellent fighter but great fights make great fighters an Floyd should take note(and Calzaghe) all this bullshit about retiring after Oscar how can he godown as a ten GOAT he shouldn't be top 20 if he retires on the 6th of May.

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

I was gonna say Mosley but then I remembered Forrest

To be honest though out of all the current top 10 p4p claiments Floyd has probably the least awe inspiring competition, he has a few "names" but when we inspect what there record was like at the point that Floyd fought them, we can start smelling the coffee

Roy Jones said it best..."they say I didnt fight nobody...I just made em look like nobody"

RJJ
B-Hop
ODLH
MAB
SSM
Holyfield

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

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No not at all mate I'm just saying he can go on and fight plenty of other good fighters ie Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Margo, Spinks etc. and beat them IMO, not rest on his laurels an say thats it I'm done i was the greatest ever. He hasn't properly cleaned the divisions as he says. As for not liking him because he's not a slugger one of the best fights i've watched recently was Winky schooling Tito Feck me that was excellent. Floyds never beat someone that dangerous every round. I appreciate his skills an enjoy watching him fight but i just don't believe his own hype.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

RJJ
B-Hop
ODLH
MAB
SSM
Holyfield

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I agree with those totally.

I know we've been here before but RJJ imo is not as highly thought of in the UK as some of you may think.
He ducked all our top UK boys year in year out and they were the elite at that time ;)
Think about it ::**

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

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No not at all mate I'm just saying he can go on and fight plenty of other good fighters ie Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Margo, Spinks etc. and beat them IMO, not rest on his laurels an say thats it I'm done i was the greatest ever. He hasn't properly cleaned the divisions as he says. As for not liking him because he's not a slugger one of the best fights i've watched recently was Winky schooling Tito Feck me that was excellent. Floyds never beat someone that dangerous every round. I appreciate his skills an enjoy watching him fight but i just don't believe his own hype.

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I agree with you...you made a good point.Me personally I dont wanna see him fight people who cant beat him.Other than Hatton...I dont wanna see him fight Cotto,Moslery,Margo,Spinks unless they battle each other and one rises to the top...because I see waayy to many flaws in there game.

Floyd will be knocking on the greats door at the very least if he takes Oscar ;)

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

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No not at all mate I'm just saying he can go on and fight plenty of other good fighters ie Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Margo, Spinks etc. and beat them IMO, not rest on his laurels an say thats it I'm done i was the greatest ever. He hasn't properly cleaned the divisions as he says. As for not liking him because he's not a slugger one of the best fights i've watched recently was Winky schooling Tito Feck me that was excellent. Floyds never beat someone that dangerous every round. I appreciate his skills an enjoy watching him fight but i just don't believe his own hype.

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I agree with you...you made a good point.Me personally I dont wanna see him fight people who cant beat him.Other than Hatton...I dont wanna see him fight Cotto,Moslery,Margo,Spinks unless they battle each other and one rises to the top...because I see waayy to many flaws in there game.

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You never know till fight night. Hell Chop Chop had Floyd shakey for a short while, its happened to better fighters, he could just have an off night its not unrealistic to say some of the afmore mentioned could beat him, an if it had to be one of em an if theres a God it'll be Ricky ;)

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

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No not at all mate I'm just saying he can go on and fight plenty of other good fighters ie Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Margo, Spinks etc. and beat them IMO, not rest on his laurels an say thats it I'm done i was the greatest ever. He hasn't properly cleaned the divisions as he says. As for not liking him because he's not a slugger one of the best fights i've watched recently was Winky schooling Tito Feck me that was excellent. Floyds never beat someone that dangerous every round. I appreciate his skills an enjoy watching him fight but i just don't believe his own hype.

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I agree with you...you made a good point.Me personally I dont wanna see him fight people who cant beat him.Other than Hatton...I dont wanna see him fight Cotto,Moslery,Margo,Spinks unless they battle each other and one rises to the top...because I see waayy to many flaws in there game.

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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Great thinking,so you don't think PBF should fight those guys like Shane etc because you see too many flaws in them. But if it was fine to fght Baldo,Judah,Gatti right? Whatever happened to giving a challenger a chance to shine? That IS an important aspect in boxing,if it stopped,boxing would become stagnant! Sorry,I don't meant to just pinpoint you but ALOT of PBF fans so and so isn't worthy etc etc. without thinking about what they are saying and without realising how ridiculous it sounds. Shane could have said that to Winky,Oscar could have said it to Floyd,Kostya could have said it to Hatton etc. See what I mean bro>?

The difference is that Floyd is the p4p best.You cant just walk on a court and expect to challenge Michael Jordan in a 1 on 1 game.Floyd is at that level where he doesnt have to chance anyone now...they have to chase him.Floyd is trying to go up in status not go down.Motorcity I agree that fighters have off days...but Floyd has had 6 "off days" in his entire life.Were any of you impressed with Cotto's last fight?After one fight...you honestly think Mosley is back to the level he use to be at?You honestly think Margo can beat Floyd?
Margo vs Berto =Berto
Mosley vs Cotto =Mosley=the winner take on PBF

Did you honestly think Rachmen could beat Lewis? Do you think many people gave Big George a chance against Joe Fraiser 1st time? Do think anyone thought Rocky could beat Drago? thats the nature of the game an thats why I love it ;D

Those fights were pretty evenly matched....Floyd is just on another level.The only flaw is that he may not have knock out power.The only people that are doubting FLoyd are the ones who want to see him fall...Keep hoping.

I couldn't give a fuck if he falls, I think someone that good is a plus for the sport. As for the others been evenly matched, Foreman was a warm up fight for Joes next fight with Ali an Rachmen was a 18-1 shot and don't even go there with Rocky an Drago

Point blank....if you believe that Cotto,Margo can beat Floyd stop drinking

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

Point blank....if you believe that Cotto,Margo can beat Floyd stop drinking

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Cracking reply ::**

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

The difference is that Floyd is the p4p best.You cant just walk on a court and expect to challenge Michael Jordan in a 1 on 1 game.Floyd is at that level where he doesnt have to chance anyone now...they have to chase him.

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So just who did Floyd beat that makes him a better case for p4p than, say, Hatton.

Ricky fought a legend and the "man" for the legitimate light welter title, then unified, then moved up a weight straight in to another title fight and wan then went back down a weight and beat yet another title holder, thats 4 reigning world champs in his last 4 fights, who has Floyd fought in his last 4 fights ?

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

The difference is that Floyd is the p4p best.You cant just walk on a court and expect to challenge Michael Jordan in a 1 on 1 game.Floyd is at that level where he doesnt have to chance anyone now...they have to chase him.

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So just who did Floyd beat that makes him a better case for p4p than, say, Hatton.

Ricky fought a legend and the "man" for the legitimate light welter title, then unified, then moved up a weight straight in to another title fight and wan then went back down a weight and beat yet another title holder, thats 4 reigning world champs in his last 4 fights, who has Floyd fought in his last 4 fights ?

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P4P embodies everything, not simply who you have fought. It also has to do with how good you are. Floyd is almost unanimously seen as better than Ricky Hatton. And let's stop being naive in thinking a belt holder is automatically a great champion. To this day, Ricky Hatton still has only one convincing win that's worth being proud of.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

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No not at all mate I'm just saying he can go on and fight plenty of other good fighters ie Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Margo, Spinks etc. and beat them IMO, not rest on his laurels an say thats it I'm done i was the greatest ever. He hasn't properly cleaned the divisions as he says. As for not liking him because he's not a slugger one of the best fights i've watched recently was Winky schooling Tito Feck me that was excellent. Floyds never beat someone that dangerous every round. I appreciate his skills an enjoy watching him fight but i just don't believe his own hype.

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I agree with you...you made a good point.Me personally I dont wanna see him fight people who cant beat him.Other than Hatton...I dont wanna see him fight Cotto,Moslery,Margo,Spinks unless they battle each other and one rises to the top...because I see waayy to many flaws in there game.

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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Great thinking,so you don't think PBF should fight those guys like Shane etc because you see too many flaws in them. But if it was fine to fght Baldo,Judah,Gatti right? Whatever happened to giving a challenger a chance to shine? That IS an important aspect in boxing,if it stopped,boxing would become stagnant! Sorry,I don't meant to just pinpoint you but ALOT of PBF fans so and so isn't worthy etc etc. without thinking about what they are saying and without realising how ridiculous it sounds. Shane could have said that to Winky,Oscar could have said it to Floyd,Kostya could have said it to Hatton etc. See what I mean bro>?

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There was an interview on the round table, not sure if you folks seen it or not and Floyd talks about undefeated fighters and fighters who have lost.

He sort of fumbled the conversation because he is not very articulate but it gave us an idea of what and how he thinks as far as choosing his opponents. To me he is nothing more than an opportunist. He lives by the laws of nature and goes after the weakest prey.
Survival of the fittest? No doubt that this is what his fanboys will say but this is not prison and we are not animals. This is boxing. Before I touch on that topic about what he said at the round table, let's take a look at what he said here:
[youtube=425,350]EOSYzIKJFro[/youtube]
"So, you know, we are not fighting to prove
to the boxing fans who..who the best is."

These are his words! Not mine.

Now getting back to what he said at the round table interview. (I would post it but it was removed by boxingscene.com due to COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT)

What did he say?

He said that "boxers who have a loss on their record are beatable. Boxers who don't have a loss on their record can't be beat."

That is what he said.

This would explain why he only has one undefeated fighter on his record. (this is his mentality)
A true fan boy will argue that he also has Roberto Apodaca on his record, which in turn I will laugh in your face. Floyd beat undefeated Diego Corrales but anyone who knows what Diego Corrales was going thru, knows Diego was not at that fight.

IMO Floyd is a Fraud.

Here is hoping he loses so I can watch his career spiral like a duck full of buckshot.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8...ubeauliqf7.jpg
Sound Legacy? What sound legacy. Why sound? How about smelly legacy.

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

It sounds to me like your downgrading him for dominating everyone.PBF is NOT a slugger...and thats what people wanna see.

---

No not at all mate I'm just saying he can go on and fight plenty of other good fighters ie Cotto, Mosley, Hatton, Margo, Spinks etc. and beat them IMO, not rest on his laurels an say thats it I'm done i was the greatest ever. He hasn't properly cleaned the divisions as he says. As for not liking him because he's not a slugger one of the best fights i've watched recently was Winky schooling Tito Feck me that was excellent. Floyds never beat someone that dangerous every round. I appreciate his skills an enjoy watching him fight but i just don't believe his own hype.

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I agree with you...you made a good point.Me personally I dont wanna see him fight people who cant beat him.Other than Hatton...I dont wanna see him fight Cotto,Moslery,Margo,Spinks unless they battle each other and one rises to the top...because I see waayy to many flaws in there game.

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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Great thinking,so you don't think PBF should fight those guys like Shane etc because you see too many flaws in them. But if it was fine to fght Baldo,Judah,Gatti right? Whatever happened to giving a challenger a chance to shine? That IS an important aspect in boxing,if it stopped,boxing would become stagnant! Sorry,I don't meant to just pinpoint you but ALOT of PBF fans so and so isn't worthy etc etc. without thinking about what they are saying and without realising how ridiculous it sounds. Shane could have said that to Winky,Oscar could have said it to Floyd,Kostya could have said it to Hatton etc. See what I mean bro>?

---

There was an interview on the round table, not sure if you folks seen it or not and Floyd talks about undefeated fighters and fighters who have lost.

He sort of fumbled the conversation because he is not very articulate but it gave us an idea of what and how he thinks as far as choosing his opponents. To me he is nothing more than an opportunist. He lives by the laws of nature and goes after the weakest prey.
Survival of the fittest? No doubt that this is what his fanboys will say but this is not prison and we are not animals. This is boxing. Before I touch on that topic about what he said at the round table, let's take a look at what he said here:
[youtube=425,350]EOSYzIKJFro[/youtube]
"So, you know, we are not fighting to prove
to the boxing fans who..who the best is."

These are his words! Not mine.

Now getting back to what he said at the round table interview. (I would post it but it was removed by boxingscene.com due to COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT)

What did he say?

He said that "boxers who have a loss on their record are beatable. Boxers who don't have a loss on their record can't be beat."

That is what he said.

This would explain why he only has one undefeated fighter on his record. (this is his mentality)
A true fan boy will argue that he also has Roberto Apodaca on his record, which in turn I will laugh in your face. Floyd beat undefeated Diego Corrales but anyone who knows what Diego Corrales was going thru, knows Diego was not at that fight.

IMO Floyd is a Fraud.

Here is hoping he loses so I can watch his career spiral like a duck full of buckshot.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8...ubeauliqf7.jpg
Sound Legacy? What sound legacy. Why sound? How about smelly legacy.

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CC good post!

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Originally Posted by Smashup

I know we've been here before but RJJ imo is not as highly thought of in the UK as some of you may think.
He ducked all our top UK boys year in year out and they were the elite at that time ;)
Think about it ::**

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Why didnt your boxers fight James Toney? James called out Benn and Eubank on nationwide telivision on a show in the UK did he not? ;)

How is he a fraud...seriously?lol..this is hilarious.Who has he had the chance to fight...but got scarred?What does he have to prove?When it comes to floyd there is always a negative comment...Who is he suppose to fight?
Accomplishments
Olympic Medalist
Dominated almost every opponent
Most complete fighter of his time

...If he isnt p4p king right now who is?dont say Pac

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Originally Posted by Smashup

Floyd will be knocking on the greats door at the very least if he takes Oscar ;)

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F*ck no mate, thats toooo damn! close.
He'll be throwing rocks at the window of the greats......... ;D

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

The difference is that Floyd is the p4p best.You cant just walk on a court and expect to challenge Michael Jordan in a 1 on 1 game.Floyd is at that level where he doesnt have to chance anyone now...they have to chase him.

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So just who did Floyd beat that makes him a better case for p4p than, say, Hatton.

Ricky fought a legend and the "man" for the legitimate light welter title, then unified, then moved up a weight straight in to another title fight and wan then went back down a weight and beat yet another title holder, thats 4 reigning world champs in his last 4 fights, who has Floyd fought in his last 4 fights ?

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He is p4p over Hatton because ...
Speed-PBF
Stamina-PBF
Strength-Hatton
Ring awareness-PBF
Defense-PBF
Experience-PBF
I could go on all day.

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

The difference is that Floyd is the p4p best.You cant just walk on a court and expect to challenge Michael Jordan in a 1 on 1 game.Floyd is at that level where he doesnt have to chance anyone now...they have to chase him.

---

So just who did Floyd beat that makes him a better case for p4p than, say, Hatton.

Ricky fought a legend and the "man" for the legitimate light welter title, then unified, then moved up a weight straight in to another title fight and wan then went back down a weight and beat yet another title holder, thats 4 reigning world champs in his last 4 fights, who has Floyd fought in his last 4 fights ?

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He is p4p over Hatton because ...
Speed-PBF
Stamina-PBF
Strength-Hatton
Ring awareness-PBF
Defense-PBF
Experience-PBF
I could go on all day.

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...and on and on and on and on.....

I don't know why this guy keeps coming up in every thread I seem to reply to lately ??? but...James Toney...

Also MAB,,Holyfield,,B-Hop,,

Jones
Holyfield
Morales
Barrera

That's it

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

Did you honestly think Rachmen could beat Lewis? Do you think many people gave Big George a chance against Joe Fraiser 1st time? Do think anyone thought Rocky could beat Drago? thats the nature of the game an thats why I love it ;D

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So your opinion on Floyd is based on Lewis being unfocused that night? Because Lewis had a bad night, Floyd might too?
You know you got a weak argument when your points are based on "what if Floyd has a bad night".
Personally, I don't think Floyd needs to fight either Hatton or Margarito. Beating either of them will do nothing for his legacy. Hatton has troubles against slick fighters. Floyd easily beats slow cumbersome fighters. I don't even see this fight being close.
As for Margarito, people want him to be better than he actually is. It'd be a good story if this guy who never gets his chance finally gets his chance in the ring and beats the top dog. He's nothing but a countering stick. Even if Floyd beats 8 men with his arms tied behind his back his most ardent detractor will always say, "But he didn't fight Margarito!".
It'd be awesome for Hatton or Margarito's careers to fight someone like Floyd. But Floyd doesn't need those guys.

If After Floyd beats Oscar, I'd like to see him fight Mosley and depending on where Cotto's career is at during that point, maybe a Cotto fight.
Mosley poses the greatest danger to Floyd because of his speed and output.
If Cotto stays as busy as he appears he will be, he could be a legitimate contender after those two fights.
After those two (maybe Cotto for the third), I don't see how you can keep him off the alltime list.
Don't throw Hatton and tony's names in there. Tony has done nothing to deserve a Floyd fight. And if Hatton is saying he wants to stay at 140 for now, what does that say about his desire to fight Floyd.

It's not Floyd's fault he hasn't been in a great fight. It's not Floyd's job to make a close fight. Why would he be stupid enough to do that.

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Originally Posted by meowza

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Originally Posted by motorcitycobra

Did you honestly think Rachmen could beat Lewis? Do you think many people gave Big George a chance against Joe Fraiser 1st time? Do think anyone thought Rocky could beat Drago? thats the nature of the game an thats why I love it ;D

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So your opinion on Floyd is based on Lewis being unfocused that night? Because Lewis had a bad night, Floyd might too?
You know you got a weak argument when your points are based on "what if Floyd has a bad night".
Personally, I don't think Floyd needs to fight either Hatton or Margarito. Beating either of them will do nothing for his legacy. Hatton has troubles against slick fighters. Floyd easily beats slow cumbersome fighters. I don't even see this fight being close.
As for Margarito, people want him to be better than he actually is. It'd be a good story if this guy who never gets his chance finally gets his chance in the ring and beats the top dog. He's nothing but a countering stick. Even if Floyd beats 8 men with his arms tied behind his back his most ardent detractor will always say, "But he didn't fight Margarito!".
It'd be awesome for Hatton or Margarito's careers to fight someone like Floyd. But Floyd doesn't need those guys.

If After Floyd beats Oscar, I'd like to see him fight Mosley and depending on where Cotto's career is at during that point, maybe a Cotto fight.
Mosley poses the greatest danger to Floyd because of his speed and output.
If Cotto stays as busy as he appears he will be, he could be a legitimate contender after those two fights.
After those two (maybe Cotto for the third), I don't see how you can keep him off the alltime list.
Don't throw Hatton and tony's names in there. Tony has done nothing to deserve a Floyd fight. And if Hatton is saying he wants to stay at 140 for now, what does that say about his desire to fight Floyd.

It's not Floyd's fault he hasn't been in a great fight. It's not Floyd's job to make a close fight. Why would he be stupid enough to do that.

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I agree 100%...even though the Hatton fight will more than likely happen.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

RJJ
B-Hop
ODLH
MAB
SSM
Holyfield

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I agree with those totally.

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Yep hard to look past these guys for me :)

James Toney has a pretty good legacy, not a great one. But really if Floyd wins in May impressively that means alot to his legacy and retiring now would be dumb. If he beats Oscar he should fight Mosley and then Wright and try to rack up the fights vs. the cream of the crop.

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Originally Posted by chamiley

I believe if Floyd retires after delahoya fight win lose or draw his legacy will not be that profound to be considered in the top ten greatest of all time, he definetly has potential to be on that list but would have to fight for a little longer and more quality opponents.

I think fighters like bernard hopkins, roy jones, Barrera, and oscar(if he wins the PBF fight) have a more sound legacy than floyd

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DLH
Mosley
Winky
Pac
Barrera
E. Morales
Evan Fields (LOL)
J. Toney

Legacy = Taking Risks Win or Lose

Floyd is a very good fighter but how do we really know how good unless he takes on other great fighters. DLH is a good start but if he retires after that fight, he has no legacy in my book. DLH is not what he used to be although he is still very dangerous.

I've never understood why people think Floyd is ducking fighters ???

To my mind the only time you could conceivably say he took an easy fight was against Baldomir but he had the Ring belt and was the undisputed welterweight champion so it made sense to fight him.

If you guys would have actually bothered to watch Floyd's career you would know that since even before he moved upto lightweight to face Castillo the one fighter on his mind has been Oscar De La Hoya.

Watch his fights with Sosa, Ndou, Chavez, etc at the end of every fight he's calling out De La Hoya.

He knows that amongst the lower weight classes nobody has achieved as much, and has as big a fan base as the Golden Boy and his whole career has been a quest to get Oscar in the ring.

It's funny watching his fights from 4 or 5 years ago and Merchant and Lampley discuss him wanting to fight De La Hoya with Merchant saying that Floyd has about as much chance of beating Oscar as a flyweight world champ would have of beating Floyd.

Floyd has raced through the divisions in the past couple years to get his big shot with Oscar. So he didn't stop to clean out some of the trash along the way, so what?

Once he's beaten Oscar he's effectively proven he would have beaten all those other 'flavour of the month' guys too.

He will beat Oscar, and then look for his legacy defining fights with Mosely and Cotto no doubt being the two biggest targets.

But to say he's scared of fighting people is just stupid, he's not scared, he's just been focused on a particluar goal, becoming a 5 weight world champ and beating Oscar De La Hoya, the most popular fighter of modern times.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Smashup

I know we've been here before but RJJ imo is not as highly thought of in the UK as some of you may think.
He ducked all our top UK boys year in year out and they were the elite at that time ;)
Think about it ::**

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Why didnt your boxers fight James Toney? James called out Benn and Eubank on nationwide telivision on a show in the UK did he not? ;)

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Remember it well mate ;)
He then went on to price himself out of fights with both of them ;)