Was shavers power overrated?.
A lot might disagree . But i think it was . shavers never knocked out anyone with a decent chin . The only top fighters he knocked out were norton,ellis and young . Young was a blown up middleweight , ellis was shot and norton was shot and never had a chin to begin with . Shavers reputation of being generally recognised as the hardest puncher in history comes from ali and holmes always blowing up shavers as being a great fighter and great puncher .Shavers knockouts are nearly all against tomato cans. jimmy ellis wasent too impressed by his power . He said shavers didnt hit that hard at all.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
"Nobody hit as hard as Shavers, if anybody hit harder than Shavers I'd shoot them"
Randy 'Tex' Cobb ;D
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
A lot might disagree . But i think it was . shavers never knocked out anyone with a decent chin . The only top fighters he knocked out were norton,ellis and young . Young was a blown up middleweight , ellis was shot and norton was shot and never had a chin to begin with . Shavers reputation of being generally recognised as the hardest puncher in history comes from ali and holmes always blowing up shavers as being a great fighter and great puncher .Shavers knockouts are nearly all against tomato cans. jimmy ellis wasent too impressed by his power . He said shavers didnt hit that hard at all.
you started a topic about was Lewis power overrated now this ?? how can Shaver's power be overrated Young was not blown up middleweight i don't know where you got that from Ellis wasn't shot he was on 8 win streak and his last loss at that time was from Ali who he went 12 rounds with and if you go on youtube and hear how hard he hit Holmes it was like shotgun going off and didn't Ali say he was hardest hitter he had fought and didn't he fight Fraizer Liston and Foreman i think Ali would know best don't you
and Ellis said Shaver's didn't hit that hard hold on second wasn't he on his backside in first round from uppercut maybe he can't remember or has brain damage from that shot one of the two
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
A lot might disagree . But i think it was . shavers never knocked out anyone with a decent chin . The only top fighters he knocked out were norton,ellis and young . Young was a blown up middleweight , ellis was shot and norton was shot and never had a chin to begin with . Shavers reputation of being generally recognised as the hardest puncher in history comes from ali and holmes always blowing up shavers as being a great fighter and great puncher .Shavers knockouts are nearly all against tomato cans. jimmy ellis wasent too impressed by his power . He said shavers didnt hit that hard at all.
you started a topic about was Lewis power overrated now this ?? how can Shaver's power be overrated Young was not blown up middleweight i don't know where you got that from Ellis wasn't shot he was on 8 win streak and his last loss at that time was from Ali who he went 12 rounds with and if you go on youtube and hear how hard he hit Holmes it was like shotgun going off and didn't Ali say he was hardest hitter he had fought and didn't he fight Fraizer Liston and Foreman i think Ali would know best don't you
and Ellis said Shaver's didn't hit that hard hold on second wasn't he on his backside in first round from uppercut maybe he can't remember or has brain damage from that shot one of the two
name one guy he knocked out who had a good chin?.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
I think Shavers is definately top 3 in the hardest of all time punching heavies, i aint completely sold on him being the hardest hitter ever though.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
I believe he hit hard, but I don't believe he was the hardest puncher ever. He had great technique, and seemed to have that special power, but I say Lewis, Tua, and Tyson hit hard in their prime.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
A lot might disagree . But i think it was . shavers never knocked out anyone with a decent chin . The only top fighters he knocked out were norton,ellis and young . Young was a blown up middleweight , ellis was shot and norton was shot and never had a chin to begin with . Shavers reputation of being generally recognised as the hardest puncher in history comes from ali and holmes always blowing up shavers as being a great fighter and great puncher .Shavers knockouts are nearly all against tomato cans. jimmy ellis wasent too impressed by his power . He said shavers didnt hit that hard at all.
you started a topic about was Lewis power overrated now this ?? how can Shaver's power be overrated Young was not blown up middleweight i don't know where you got that from Ellis wasn't shot he was on 8 win streak and his last loss at that time was from Ali who he went 12 rounds with and if you go on youtube and hear how hard he hit Holmes it was like shotgun going off and didn't Ali say he was hardest hitter he had fought and didn't he fight Fraizer Liston and Foreman i think Ali would know best don't you
and Ellis said Shaver's didn't hit that hard hold on second wasn't he on his backside in first round from uppercut maybe he can't remember or has brain damage from that shot one of the two
name one guy he knocked out who had a good chin?.
Right, so he could have done so, if only he'd had more power ??? :D ::** There's a bit more to boxing... Noone says he's one of the best HW's ever, he is just one of the hardest punchers. And the fact that he couldn't KO Ali or Holmes, even though he had them both SEVERLY hurt, hardly takes anything away from his power, considering that was almost his only asset. He fought in a great great era, the best HW has ever seen, and his power alone made him a major contender. THat should tell you enough. If Julian Jackson had a chin that was as fragile as Shavers p4p he probably would have never KO'ed the fighters he did.. Doesn't mean his power wasn't awesome.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
As fans, we could argue abotu this all day. But the fact is we have three people who have been in the ring with him - Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, and Tex Cobb - who say he is the hardest hitter they've fought. This is saying a hell of a lot. Ali fought Liston, Frazier, Foreman, ect. Holmes fought a prime Tyson. The fact that these guys say Shavers hit harder says all that needs to be said IMO, because its coming from guys who have been in there and felt his power as opposed to people like us who have just seen it on video tape.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
As fans, we could argue abotu this all day. But the fact is we have three people who have been in the ring with him - Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, and Tex Cobb - who say he is the hardest hitter they've fought. This is saying a hell of a lot. Ali fought Liston, Frazier, Foreman, ect. Holmes fought a prime Tyson. The fact that these guys say Shavers hit harder says all that needs to be said IMO, because its coming from guys who have been in there and felt his power as opposed to people like us who have just seen it on video tape.
THat's all very true... But I always take what a fighter say about his opponents with a grain of salt.. I mean Shavers may have hit harder then a prime Tyson, but really, how the hell would Larry Holmes know that for sure?? I know, he fought them both, but Tyson put him to sleep and Shavers didn't.. At some point when your getting hit with a sledgehammer, especially as an older man, it can't be easy to say who honestly had more power.. Besides that Shavers landed probably his best possible punch on Holmes and he still got up from it.. I just don't know. If you ask James Toney the people who hit him hardest with Merqui Sosa and Iran Barkley. Not Sam Peter, of course ::**
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Ive always been surprised at who hits harder than who. In the amateurs i fought a kid who was 1-12 and he hit harder than anyone id ever fought and i was in with some very good fighters at the time that also beat that guy but they couldnt compare power wise. I beat him but my point you cant go by when Shavers fought some of his opponents or his record. You can only go by what the opponent says and what you see. Id say Shavers had tremendous power.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
As fans, we could argue abotu this all day. But the fact is we have three people who have been in the ring with him - Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, and Tex Cobb - who say he is the hardest hitter they've fought. This is saying a hell of a lot. Ali fought Liston, Frazier, Foreman, ect. Holmes fought a prime Tyson. The fact that these guys say Shavers hit harder says all that needs to be said IMO, because its coming from guys who have been in there and felt his power as opposed to people like us who have just seen it on video tape.
THat's all very true... But I always take what a fighter say about his opponents with a grain of salt.. I mean Shavers may have hit harder then a prime Tyson, but really, how the hell would Larry Holmes know that for sure?? I know, he fought them both, but Tyson put him to sleep and Shavers didn't.. At some point when your getting hit with a sledgehammer, especially as an older man, it can't be easy to say who honestly had more power.. Besides that Shavers landed probably his best possible punch on Holmes and he still got up from it.. I just don't know. If you ask James Toney the people who hit him hardest with Merqui Sosa and Iran Barkley. Not Sam Peter, of course ::**
He wouldn't remember the Tyson fight. If your put to sleep by a concussive blow you don't remember a large portion of the day.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
I think Shavers is definately top 3 in the hardest of all time punching heavies, i aint completely sold on him being the hardest hitter ever though.
I agree a top 3 but not #1....Shaver had a questionable chin but power??...No question about it he had it....IMO the harded ever was George Foreman.....Any fighter that can destroy 200lb heavybags during a workout is an animal...Besides look at some of his destruction left in the riing over the years...George left good tough fighters in heaps on the canvas
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
A lot might disagree . But i think it was . shavers never knocked out anyone with a decent chin . The only top fighters he knocked out were norton,ellis and young . Young was a blown up middleweight , ellis was shot and norton was shot and never had a chin to begin with . Shavers reputation of being generally recognised as the hardest puncher in history comes from ali and holmes always blowing up shavers as being a great fighter and great puncher .Shavers knockouts are nearly all against tomato cans. jimmy ellis wasent too impressed by his power . He said shavers didnt hit that hard at all.
you started a topic about was Lewis power overrated now this ?? how can Shaver's power be overrated Young was not blown up middleweight i don't know where you got that from Ellis wasn't shot he was on 8 win streak and his last loss at that time was from Ali who he went 12 rounds with and if you go on youtube and hear how hard he hit Holmes it was like shotgun going off and didn't Ali say he was hardest hitter he had fought and didn't he fight Fraizer Liston and Foreman i think Ali would know best don't you
and Ellis said Shaver's didn't hit that hard hold on second wasn't he on his backside in first round from uppercut maybe he can't remember or has brain damage from that shot one of the two
name one guy he knocked out who had a good chin?.
well only other guys with good chins were Ron Lyle and i have no idea how he got up he legs went back funny the power that Shavers hit him with was amazing Jerry Quarry swarmed him Shavers never got a chance to hit Quarry Shavers didn't fight Foreman or Fraizer there was Ali and i don't think i've ever seen Ali staggered as much as he was he took brutal shots and Holmes well like i said go on youtube and hear power of the punch he hit Holmes with
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
If i guy who has fought Liston, Frazier and Foreman say that he is the hardest puncher he ever fought then Shavers could bang. End of Story
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
As fans, we could argue abotu this all day. But the fact is we have three people who have been in the ring with him - Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, and Tex Cobb - who say he is the hardest hitter they've fought. This is saying a hell of a lot. Ali fought Liston, Frazier, Foreman, ect. Holmes fought a prime Tyson. The fact that these guys say Shavers hit harder says all that needs to be said IMO, because its coming from guys who have been in there and felt his power as opposed to people like us who have just seen it on video tape.
THat's all very true... But I always take what a fighter say about his opponents with a grain of salt.. I mean Shavers may have hit harder then a prime Tyson, but really, how the hell would Larry Holmes know that for sure?? I know, he fought them both, but Tyson put him to sleep and Shavers didn't.. At some point when your getting hit with a sledgehammer, especially as an older man, it can't be easy to say who honestly had more power.. Besides that Shavers landed probably his best possible punch on Holmes and he still got up from it.. I just don't know. If you ask James Toney the people who hit him hardest with Merqui Sosa and Iran Barkley. Not Sam Peter, of course ::**
He wouldn't remember the Tyson fight. If your put to sleep by a concussive blow you don't remember a large portion of the day.
Exactly what I was trying to get at... I don't remember how long he was out or anything or if he managed to get up quickly.. But if you get brutally KO'ed, it's hard to say another guy hit you harder. Would be like Herol Graham saying McCallum hit harder than Julian Jackson or something, fighters do it all the time.
Re: Was shavers power overrated?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
THat's all very true... But I always take what a fighter say about his opponents with a grain of salt.. I mean Shavers may have hit harder then a prime Tyson, but really, how the hell would Larry Holmes know that for sure?? I know, he fought them both, but Tyson put him to sleep and Shavers didn't.. At some point when your getting hit with a sledgehammer, especially as an older man, it can't be easy to say who honestly had more power.. Besides that Shavers landed probably his best possible punch on Holmes and he still got up from it.. I just don't know. If you ask James Toney the people who hit him hardest with Merqui Sosa and Iran Barkley. Not Sam Peter, of course ::**
Thats true, and I do take what fighters say with a grain of salt as well, but when you have three guys saying the same thing about one guy, that has to give it a lot more credibility. I mean we all know James Toney is a shittalker and would rather die than give Rahman and Peter any credit, but what about Ali, Holmes and Cobb? I know Cobb was about as much of a straight shooter as your going to find in boxing, and Holmes and Ali had nothing to gain. I'm not saying that Shavers was the hardest puncher of all time (because for all we know the hardest puncher of all time could be some journeyman that none of us have heard of), but the fact that these guys would testify like that proves that his power was not overrated, he could hit with the best of them.
Also I never agreed with the logic that "Tyson stopped Holmes, Ernie Couldn't so Tyson must hit harder." Tyson was fighting an older Holmes and of course Holmes was able to get back to his feet several times after Tyson knocked him down. I view the Tyson knockout as a testament to Tyson's speed and accuracy as the KO was caused by accumulation. Earnie never really capitalized on that knockdown of Holmes besides finishing that round strong.
