Knee - yes again sorry

I have been seeing a physio RE my knee. Still unable to find a physio to think about it in relation to my back pain but swimming and stretches including scraps have helped so I really feel it's just the knee I'm waiting on now. thanks Scrap CC.

The physio had decided it was tendinopathy of my patellar tendon but since there was no improvement after several months we had an ultrasound done and there is absolutely nothing the ultrasound can pick up. I gather this rules out the suspected tendon issues and any irritation of the fat pad.

I am told it doesn't rule out cartilage issues and if some strengthening of my inner quadricep muscle doesn't fix it by getting the knee to track correctly i have done something to my cartilage. Taping across the knee to pull it inwards has not made my knee feel any better.

I had permission to attempt a short jog tonight to see if the taping worked and still felt the pain. It occurred to me that while I have been telling the physio I feel pain on impact It is something similar to jarring an elbow when i misjudge my distancing for a hard right cross without clenching my fist and putting my shoulder in properly.

I feel like I'm hyperextending my knee. Is it possible I just need to strengthen my hamstrings? If I can get away with strengthening exercises I'd prefer that to having my cartilage messed with after some of the scary knee surgery stories I've heard. My brother recently had his THIRD knee reconstruction since they stuffed up the first 2!!!

Have you got a fit ball

sure do - hamstring curls with the ball good enough?

Sharla, has the physio tested you on an isokinetic machine such as a cybex?

Nope - no machines at all except the ultrasound.

No Ill Pm you, Md raises a good point cc md

Now what have you gotten yourself into now... Has your physio prescribed any anti-inflammatory, have you been doing ice, rest, and heat treatments.

My dad has chronic bursitis which translates into killer joint pain in his right arm. It became almost incapacitating, he couldn't finish his exercises. One solution worked like a charm in conjunction with other therapies. It's known as DMSO (Dimethyl sulfoxide) it has multiple positive benefits the big one is it lowers inflammation in joints. It also relieves pain in ways that cortisol and pain meds can not. Another biggie is it acts as a membrane transporter which in English means you don't have to inject you can apply it topically and it will also help your body absorb any other medicens that it is mixed with. You can look it up for yourself.

What I know is that before my dad's arm was locked up with pain and he did everything else short of arm surgery and after the use of DMSO to the astonishment of his doctor the effects of the painful bursitis diminished, as the inflammation has been treated.

DMSO will help bring down the inflammation, it's a little itchy as I've tried it myself, one solution to that is to mix it with Castor oil which relieves any minor irritation and further promotes healing in the joints.

One supplement that you should be taking for the possibility that the tendiopathy is indeed caused by micro tears is glucosamine phosphate. This will help heal and rebuild the your tendons/joints especially any cartilage. This can be taken orally, but for more effective treatment it can be applied topically over your knee in conjunction with chondroitin and DMSO. The DMSO will act as a membrane transporter to penetrate into your skin so it can be better absorbed, and the chondroitin will better promote the effects of glucosamine.

That should work gang-busters. Now you gotta get the swelling down, apply ice, and rest. The next step is the use of Glucosamine + Chondroitin to rebuild you joints while also under going heat treatments.

Get a heating pad, it's cheap and better yet it'll help promote healing as it brings heat back into your leg. Make sure that you have the inflammation/swelling down before you start on any heat treatments.

If you need something that'll do it short of having your knee opened up I'd stick with the DMSO treatment along with common therapy.

Also your physio probably already told you that after the ice, rest and heat that you need to exercise your quads and hamstrings. Light stretching will help, and leg extension exercises will help strengthen your quad. If you need any help coming up with exercises I'll toss a few at ya.

You Follow?

Also I'd keep up the swimming and take it easy on the boxing if I were in your shoes. In boxing you'll have to avoid deep squatting when you duck down, or your knee will tell you. This is a good time to learn the other good moves, catching punches, parrying and slipping and feinting.

Do me a favor and don't end up like your brother, and take care of yourself. ;)

Look at all this attention you're getting...

You can do leg extensions sitting in a regular chair holding your exercise ball in between your ankles, and you can do your hamstring curls with your exercise ball hanging off a bed or a bench.

Now make sure you also move your leg in it's full range of motion minus the pain. I'll think of some other calisthenics that'll help patch up your bum knee. :)

Thanks Chris,
I'll get into the exercises. I am going a little nuts not being able to run and the physio said I was OK boxing since I'd taken 2 months off everything but swimming when I first started seeing him and that was about 3 months ago - so i hope I don't have to stop again. If I can't run or box then I'll really turn into a grumpy B***H!

Although I'm not sure my problem is inflammatory as they couldn't see any fluid in the knee in the ultrasound and they were pretty thorough. The nurse who did it even brought her boss in to confirm the fact they couldn't find anything. She was very apologetic which I hope doesn't mean the alternative possible causes are bad.

So Scrap and MD - do you think I should ask to be tested with a cybex? I've got an appointment this week so if I know what to ask for hopefully it'll be sorted soonish. Thanks for your help :)

lol, well we don't need any more grumpy bitches in this world. You know to be honest you're the second girl I've talked to that has this sort of problem. I hope you're luckier because that girl's knee ran out of juice. No need to say how unhappy she was about that. ;)

Cybex should help, even people that had their knees worked on were able to get something out of it. Have you tried a KT machine, it will test the laxity of your knee ligament.

Sharla, testing knee flexion on the isokinetic machine measures the strength ratio between your hamstrings and quads at various speeds and joint angles during different types of contraction. It's a useful tool which could help determine if there's an imbalance causing knee instability. It also helps your physio create a focussed rehab programme which can be measured. :)

Thanks MD. I did read somewhere on the net that women have a running and jumping style which engages the quadriceps more than the hamstrings and wider hip and it all adds up to an increased tendancy of knee injury.

I used to run a lot but be slack with weight training so I might be the type of person who would exacerbate this for themselves a bit.

I'll ask to be put on the isokinetic thingy. Thanks for the input - I was getting paranoid and it's comforting to know it could still be manageable just with weight training.

good call md. Hey Sharla let us know if there's any good news.

Will do :)

Sharla, be wary of boxing with knee problems! You rotate when you punch and this will transfer to your knees, just think how you pivot.

Just throwing some thoughts out

I've read like you probably have regarding our hip angle and how that can affect gait. I would lay off ANYTHING that causes the knee to flap round and stick with a weight training routine for now. If you can try it in front of a mirror see if your knee flares as you squat for example.

In fact might be worth trying a different therapist, fresh ideas?

Google Q angle for a better understanding of knee/ hip relationship and how that can cause inversion/eversion of the feet.

It could be caused by many things. It's good to be armed with relevant key words when going to see your therapist to push them along a little bit but don't be too pushy. Nice people always get better treatment. :)

Spot on cc

Oh fuck give you one in 24

Thanks for that MD.

I'll also keep your suggestions in mind too Missy. I guess I think part of the reason my physios having a hard time with me is because I'm not the greatest at explaining my symptoms. I'm not sure I wouldn't go through all the same possible hypothesis before identifying the real problem with another physio.

I owe a lot of people a lot of CCs - which I'll do as soon as I work out how. Just want everyone to know I'm grateful for your help :-)

Well what doctor doesn't enjoy a little game of guess the symptoms? Can you think of any funny ideas? That's where you tell them that that you read that doctors whom are more empathetic are more telepathic.

Then you describe your symptoms in colors, and shapes, you can even draw from jargon from your knowledge in horticulture. My knees feel blue, and inside of it dwells a feeling like that of a Heraclyum.

It's also fun to fake muscle spasms (kicking your legs and biting), and digging out of your magicians bag of tricks show them that ever since you've felt these pains that you've been able to levitate and talk to plants. There's no telling how much fun you can have with a serious diagnostician. :)

The fun part begins when they start to believe you, that's the sign that you should get a second opinion. :)

Sharla... I'm so pinching all the advice these guys are giving you ;D

I've got no medical advice to give but... and it sounds kinda stupid... I've found the more positive I am the better my knee feels. I'm not suggesting for a second that there's anything spooky going on but there's a lot to be said for staying with a positive mental attitude.

Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

Well what doctor doesn't enjoy a little game of guess the symptoms? Can you think of any funny ideas? That's where you tell them that that you read that doctors whom are more empathetic are more telepathic.

Then you describe your symptoms in colors, and shapes, you can even draw from jargon from your knowledge in horticulture. My knees feel blue, and inside of it dwells a feeling like that of a Heraclyum.

It's also fun to fake muscle spasms (kicking your legs and biting), and digging out of your magicians bag of tricks show them that ever since you've felt these pains that you've been able to levitate and talk to plants. There's no telling how much fun you can have with a serious diagnostician. :)

The fun part begins when they start to believe you, that's the sign that you should get a second opinion. :)

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Went to the optomatrist the other day, I said my sight was failing me.:eek:
He dragged me outside and said look up what do you see? :D
'The sun' I said..:rolleyes:
He asked "How much fukken further do you want see?" :o

Electro-stim is god

That's cool Shamrock - I sometimes go back to my own old post to re-read them since I often pick up things at a deeper level more later than I could when i first Qed people. There are a lot of very helpful people here too!

I don't really have any consistant problem with my knee anymore. I have to be careful with my back because when that gets bad eveything falls apart.

I do think that all of my problems arose when I was trying to balance heavy training with a heavy uni workload and I was finding it stressful. Obviously there were a lot of other factors but that stress is always going to mess with your recovery and it will weaken you.

I think it's a continuing lesson on how to best look after yourself and it's not as simple as some people will assume. I think it's no suprise though that a lot of people will assume age has to hold you back from being active more than it really has to.

I think it takes a lot to learn how to balance things and to look after yourself - many years of practice - but if you know that you can continue to improve those skills you can then also be in better shape in old age than you otherwise would have thought was realistic.

BTW TM - what is electro-stim? Is it one of those machines when you put little pads on yourself and they pass an electric current through you? I've got one but stupidly not really taken the time to sit down and learn all the different trigger points etc so I don't think I've learnt to use it properly!

Liked the joke too Andre but I have to spread it around before I can rep you for it!

Yep,speaking of which Ive gone too many days with out hitting it