Can Someone Tell Me If Illegal Handwrap Accusation Towards Tito Is True

I heard about this while ago just wanted to know if this was true and im not tito hater at all just heard this wanted to know if it was true

I don't know a whole lot about it, but everytime somebody brings it up nobody argues against it saying that it is/was an unfounded accusation. So in my mind the accusation has some merit.

There was a guy that came on here a while back with quotes from interviews (though no links were provided ;) ) and had posted it all here....

Not sure if you've read it all or seen, just incase here it is..... It's defenitely a good and entertaining read BUT as I said without any links to where those comments were made I wouldn't put too much credibility in the thread....

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...-t14148.0.html

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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK

There was a guy that came on here a while back with quotes from interviews (though no links were provided ;) ) and had posted it all here....

Not sure if you've read it all or seen, just incase here it is..... It's defenitely a good and entertaining read BUT as I said without any links to where those comments were made I wouldn't put too much credibility in the thread....

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...-t14148.0.html

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:coolclick: Mick good read i don't know what to think but it certainly was interesting read

I saw photos. Looked ok to me.

You can look here, it was an article written by Ron Heard before Trinidad's Cherifi fight

http://www.marcobarrera.com/forum/in...3f4a925b287178

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Originally Posted by Starr

You can look here, it was an article written by Ron Heard before Trinidad's Cherifi fight

http://www.marcobarrera.com/forum/in...3f4a925b287178

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Starr my love your back...... :)
Welcome back......
Hey cheeck your PM's in a few minutes.... ;) (I hope you don't have a full mail box) ;D
CC#1138 nice to see you around here...

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Originally Posted by Starr

You can look here, it was an article written by Ron Heard before Trinidad's Cherifi fight

http://www.marcobarrera.com/forum/in...3f4a925b287178

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:coolclick: Starr good to see your back 8)

Wow...didn't know I was missed so much, kind of humbles you :) I was feeling a right bit down today but you two just made my day, thanks, I needed that :coolclick: to you both

There is no actual proof he used Illegal wraps but these accusations just never seem to go away. It probably is true but you never no.

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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i wouldn't say it was total bs El Gamo i mean there is some evidence there but like i said i don't know for sure i would like to get more infomation on it

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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Hopkins needed to do whatever he could to win his fight against Tito? Dude, Hopkins could have walked into the ring with an STD and he still would have schooled Trinidad. Hopkins didn't NEED to do anything other than show up. And to answer the original poster's question, yes, the accusation is true. Otherwise, the NY athletic commission would not have forced Trinidad to rewrap after Hopkins camp issued the complaint.

Isn't there an interview with Felix Trinidad Sr where he admits to the wrapping in question and says that he will continue to do it in the future?

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Originally Posted by Samson3000

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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Hopkins needed to do whatever he could to win his fight against Tito? Dude, Hopkins could have walked into the ring with an STD and he still would have schooled Trinidad. Hopkins didn't NEED to do anything other than show up. And to answer the original poster's question, yes, the accusation is true. Otherwise, the Las Vegas athletic commission would not have forced Trinidad to rewrap after Hopkins camp issued the complaint.

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Went over this bullsh*t back two years ago with someone else on the site, and I swore I'd never get dragged into this bullsh*t argument again. But (sigh)... here we go again. First things first. I've always been the first to say that Hopkins was way out of Tito's league that night. That Tito went as far as 160 is pretty admirable, in my book. He didn't lose to just anybody. He lost to one of the best alltime middleweights in history. But don't forget that before that, he KO'd Joppy, not too shabby in his own right.

About the handwraps... surely you're aware of the mind games that boxers and their corners will play to get that mental edge. Hopkins' corner wanted to play mind games with Tito, and apparently it worked all too well. If you ask for an opponent's hands to get re-wrapped and that request is granted, this in itself does not constitute proof of illegal handwrapping. And as many posters have stated before, why does the handwrapping all of a sudden become "illegal" after over 10 years in the boxing game? Were all previous corners such idiots that they would permit Tito to use "illegal" handwraps throughout his previous 40-some fights? Are you aware that it is standard practice for a representative to observe the handwrapping process of the opponent? Also, with as many devastating KO's as Tito accumulated in his career.... had there been a suspicion of illegal handwrapping.... does it not seem logical to you that it would have been brought up and investigated way before the Hopkins fight?

It's amazing how a fighter who has been retired for awhile now still gets so much attention. I guess it's a reflection on how much he is missed in boxing. 'Cause love him or hate him, he gave us boxing fans some unforgettable fights (and a couple of forgettable as well)..... and his joy for the sport was always evident in his smile and his demeanor inside and outside the ring.

So I'll just keep on defending the honor and the memory of one of Puerto Rico's greatest fighters.

Not saying Tito is guilty or innocent, but if Hopkins was just playing mind games, wouldn't this have ended once the fight began? Why would Hopkins and his trainer bring it up after the fight? Hopkins dominated Tito so they had no reason to lie and falsely accuse Tito of cheating.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Samson3000

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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Hopkins needed to do whatever he could to win his fight against Tito? Dude, Hopkins could have walked into the ring with an STD and he still would have schooled Trinidad. Hopkins didn't NEED to do anything other than show up. And to answer the original poster's question, yes, the accusation is true. Otherwise, the Las Vegas athletic commission would not have forced Trinidad to rewrap after Hopkins camp issued the complaint.

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Went over this bullsh*t back two years ago with someone else on the site, and I swore I'd never get dragged into this bullsh*t argument again. But (sigh)... here we go again. First things first. I've always been the first to say that Hopkins was way out of Tito's league that night. That Tito went as far as 160 is pretty admirable, in my book. He didn't lose to just anybody. He lost to one of the best alltime middleweights in history. But don't forget that before that, he KO'd Joppy, not too shabby in his own right.

About the handwraps... surely you're aware of the mind games that boxers and their corners will play to get that mental edge. Hopkins' corner wanted to play mind games with Tito, and apparently it worked all too well. If you ask for an opponent's hands to get re-wrapped and that request is granted, this in itself does not constitute proof of illegal handwrapping. And as many posters have stated before, why does the handwrapping all of a sudden become "illegal" after over 10 years in the boxing game? Were all previous corners such idiots that they would permit Tito to use "illegal" handwraps throughout his previous 40-some fights? Are you aware that it is standard practice for a representative to observe the handwrapping process of the opponent? Also, with as many devastating KO's as Tito accumulated in his career.... had there been a suspicion of illegal handwrapping.... does it not seem logical to you that it would have been brought up and investigated way before the Hopkins fight?

It's amazing how a fighter who has been retired for awhile now still gets so much attention. I guess it's a reflection on how much he is missed in boxing. 'Cause love him or hate him, he gave us boxing fans some unforgettable fights (and a couple of forgettable as well)..... and his joy for the sport was always evident in his smile and his demeanor inside and outside the ring.

So I'll just keep on defending the honor and the memory of one of Puerto Rico's greatest fighters.

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Who's giving him attention now ::**. A poster simply started this thread and people are answering his question.

If I remember correctly the controversy really was dipping his hands in water after it's wrapped. As far as other camps not catching it.... You wouldn't really notice the wraps, and then the hands would be dipped right before putting the gloves on.

I do remember the person who wrapped his hands saying he has always done it that way and it's not illegal. The wrapping wasn't denied by Tito's camp, they acknowledged they did it the way Hopkins said, and they defended that it's not illegal. I don't think they admitted to dipping his hands in water. That was part of the accusation.

:coolclick: all round thanks for your replys

combine your wraps & tape with your hands sweating then it will bind.

haha

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Originally Posted by luvfightgame

If I remember correctly the controversy really was dipping his hands in water after it's wrapped. As far as other camps not catching it.... You wouldn't really notice the wraps, and then the hands would be dipped right before putting the gloves on.

I do remember the person who wrapped his hands saying he has always done it that way and it's not illegal. The wrapping wasn't denied by Tito's camp, they acknowledged they did it the way Hopkins said, and they defended that it's not illegal. I don't think they admitted to dipping his hands in water. That was part of the accusation.

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Yeah. I remember an episode of CSI where they covered that(dipping and such) and yeah boxers do, do that. Increases their PSI when it hardens.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Isn't there an interview with Felix Trinidad Sr where he admits to the wrapping in question and says that he will continue to do it in the future?

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yeah, it's in the link that Cutmemick and starr posted

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Originally Posted by Samson3000

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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Hopkins needed to do whatever he could to win his fight against Tito? Dude, Hopkins could have walked into the ring with an STD and he still would have schooled Trinidad. Hopkins didn't NEED to do anything other than show up. And to answer the original poster's question, yes, the accusation is true. Otherwise, the NY athletic commission would not have forced Trinidad to rewrap after Hopkins camp issued the complaint.

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Hit the nail on the head.

If there was ever a problem, it showed up after his career was over. Probably from the sore losers he beat down. I say you cant claim this crap unless there is a legit greivance filed against the boxer, from several sources. For one the opponents get to have a rep, from their camp oversee the wrapping of the hands....if there was ever a issue you bring it up then and have the hands rewrapped. This after the fact crap, is just neglegence on their part, and they are too blame 100% if they let the fight go on when they thought something was wrong.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

If there was ever a problem, it showed up after his career was over. Probably from the sore losers he beat down. I say you cant claim this crap unless there is a legit greivance filed against the boxer, from several sources. For one the opponents get to have a rep, from their camp oversee the wrapping of the hands....if there was ever a issue you bring it up then and have the hands rewrapped. This after the fact crap, is just neglegence on their part, and they are too blame 100% if they let the fight go on when they thought something was wrong.

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Here's a little exerpt I took from that article everyone's been posting about


Cherifi Better Watch Tito's Hand Wraps
Boxingtalk Exclusive by Ron Heard

On September 29, 2001 before the fight between Bernard Hopkins and Felix Trinidad, team Hopkins sent a representative from their team to over-see Tito's hands being wrapped. When their representative arrived he was shocked to see that Tito's left hand was already wrapped, signed off and the boxing glove was on. In an exclusive interview Bernard Hopkins told Boxingtalk, "I sent my team in there to watch Trinidad wrap his hands and when they got there
Trinidad's left hand was already wrapped and he had his boxing glove on. So my trainer, Bouie Fisher who has been doing this stuff for a long time went over there to straighten it up. The thing is Trinidad has been getting away with doing this for a long time. I know for a fact that he has done it at least one other fight. They are used to being able to do whatever they want and get away with it. That is how it is in boxing."
First of all, you have to wonder who this commissioner was that let Don Felix wrap Tito's hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp being there. Hopkins said, "not only did he let him wrap the hands without us being there, but he was in there joking and laughing and talking Spanish with the Trinidads like they were best friends. When Bouie told them that he would have to take it off and rewrap it in front of someone fron their camp, he said "NO," its
already wrapped and it's too close to time for the fight to start. Bouie had to go to the head commissioner before they were made to rewrap his hands."
Luckily for Hopkins, Bouie Fisher is old school and he was not going to let this fight go on with Tito having wrapped his left hand and nobody from his camp watching it. "Bouie kept telling them, either we do this by the book or we don't do it all," said Hopkins.
It didn't make since to Fisher why the Trinidad's were so insistent on not rewrapping the hand because obviously they knew the rules. They have been in enough of these big fights to know that a representative from the other camp is allowed to be in the room while they are wrapping Tito's hand. Even if the New York Commission's Representative didn't know any better, the Trinidads definitely did. The Trinidads went so far as to actually say, "If we have to rewrap Tito's hand then there will be no fight." Why was this left hand wrapping so important to the Trinidads?
Finally, after the head commissioner became involved the Trinidads were told to either rewrap the left hand or the fight was off. After much argument, they finally agreed to rewrap the hand with a member from the Hopkins team present.
Tito was made to remove his glove and the prior wrapping in front of Hopkins representative Naazim Richardson who noticed that the wrap looked very thick and when he felt it he says it was as hard as a rock. All the sudden it became very clear why they had tried to get away with wrapping the left hand without anyone from the Hopkins camp watching Shocked and also why they didn't want to remove it and rewrap the hand.
Don Felix began to rewrap the hand again, but Richardson noticed that Don Felix was putting layers of tape and then gauze, tape and then gauze Shocked, tape and then gauze Shocked which is not in accordance with NYSAC rules. Shocked The rules stipulate tape cannot be applied directly over the knuckles, and that repeating the process several times.
In an interview with Bernard Fernandez of Philly.com, Hopkins said, "If you put on tape, then gauze, then tape, then gauze, it's like a [plaster] cast. It's like being hit with a baseball bat. I'm giving out some secrets here, but you can dip your hands in ice water and that tape will, like, marinate and become harder. But it's only cheating if you get caught. Personally, I think Vargas' and Reid's people dropped the ball. Naazim did a brilliant job in spotting what [Felix Trinidad Sr.] was doing with the wraps."
Don Felix was also putting tape on the skin and over the knuckles, both of which are not in accordance with NYSAC rules. New York's head commissioner put his foot down and made Don Felix wrap in strict accordance to the rules.
Don Felix has insisted in several interviews that, "I have always wrapped Tito's hands this way Shocked Shocked Shocked and nobody else has ever said anything."
That’s like saying, I beat my wife all the time and I've never got in trouble for it before. Now, all the sudden you guys want to make a big deal out this. That's just not right, I'm a respectable man.
In a recent interview of Don Felix by Gerardo M. Avila-Planas and David Mesqueue of Fightnews, Don Felix was asked, "Do you think that the Hopkins camp did it (made them rewrap Tito's hand) to get to you psychologically?" and he answered, "Well, it got to us a little because, since I couldn’t place the tape that I usually place on Tito’s hand...I had to add some more gauze...This tends to take away some of the power in the punch." Shocked Shocked Shocked
There are a couple really important things in this statement by Don Felix.
First, he admits that the New York Commission wouldn't allow him to wrap the hands like he Shocked Shocked ALWAYS DOES Shocked Shocked. There can only be one reason for him not being allowed to wrap the hands that way - it was illegal. Therefore, if that is how he ALWAYS wrapped Tito's hands in the past, the assumption that he always wrapped illegally is not far-fetched. But this time he was forced to wrap the hands in strict accordance to NYSAC rules.
Second, he admits that not being able to use the layers and to put the tape on the skin and over the knuckles, Shocked Shocked Shocked "TENDS TO TAKE AWAY SOME OF THE POWER IN THE PUNCH." Shocked Shocked So he admits that with the illegal wrapping Tito is able to hit harder. Shocked Shocked
Finally, he also admits, that not only does the illegal wrap allow Tito to hit harder, but it PREVENTS TITO'S HANDS FROM OPENING ON IMPACT" which actually provides more protection for his hand. So while most fighters have to worry about hitting a fighter on the top of the head in fear of hurting their hands, Tito's hands have extra power and extra protection from illegal hand wraps.

Hope it satisfies you.

Funny that Hopkins knows all about cheating...hmmm someone get a lie-detector! They didnt say anything about the time Hopkins rep. showed up, was he on time? Because if he was late I could see why they didnt want to rewrap, maybe thinking it was hurting his warm-up time.If he was on time then there is no reason for them to have his hand already wrapped.I dont like those quotes with lots of ... in them, are we getting a translation , part of the sentence out of context? What is that?

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Originally Posted by No Contest

Funny that Hopkins knows all about cheating...hmmm someone get a lie-detector! They didnt say anything about the time Hopkins rep. showed up, was he on time? Because if he was late I could see why they didnt want to rewrap, maybe thinking it was hurting his warm-up time.If he was on time then there is no reason for them to have his hand already wrapped.I dont like those quotes with lots of ... in them, are we getting a translation , part of the sentence out of context? What is that?

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It's not the point of lateness or anything, it was the fashion they saw Tito's hands being wrapped and the fact that they had to take off all that extra stuff and wrap them the way they are supposed to be is whats in question. All to speculation but what itns even a translation is all the extra they found and thats what should be looked at.

Boom!!!!!!!!!
[youtube=425,350]lxk30NVcPtA[/youtube]

booom is right... like a plaster hammer to the head! :lickish:

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Originally Posted by No Contest

If there was ever a problem, it showed up after his career was over. Probably from the sore losers he beat down. I say you cant claim this crap unless there is a legit greivance filed against the boxer, from several sources. For one the opponents get to have a rep, from their camp oversee the wrapping of the hands....if there was ever a issue you bring it up then and have the hands rewrapped. This after the fact crap, is just neglegence on their part, and they are too blame 100% if they let the fight go on when they thought something was wrong.

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CC. You got THAT right, brother.

I like when Vargas told people that Hopkins was right because he felt that when Tito hit him it was almost the same as Tyson lolll but the funny stuff came when nobody can proove crap he had to stick to his story.

WTF I just found this clip Reggae style
[youtube=425,350]yUEqswcK5HU[/youtube]

I recall Larry merchant saying in the broadcast that Hop's trainer went into Tito's locker room to watch the taping of his hands. They saw that Tito had too much tape on and they protested. Tito and his father refused to re-wrap and the fight was in jeopardy. Hop's trainer later said that too much tape can create a 'plaster cast' effect.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Isn't there an interview with Felix Trinidad Sr where he admits to the wrapping in question and says that he will continue to do it in the future?

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yeah, it's in the link that Cutmemick and starr posted

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Originally Posted by Samson3000

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Tito took off his gloves plenty of times after fights,I didn't hear anyone complain. And that interview is based mainly on claims from the Hopkins camp,Hopkins obviously needed to do whatever he could to win their fight and used plenty of mind games including offending most of the Purto Rico with his antics. So I find it hard to believe that information is from a reliable source ;)

Oh and the Vargas part...yeah Vargas sure was a credible source. I mean he wanted a rematch after the fight,despite being annihilated. ??? ::**

And the worst point....Tito hit Hopkins with the same punch as he hit Vargas bur Hopkins wasn't hurt....My god,they are known as VARIABLES!!!NO 2 FIGHTERS ARE GOING TO REACT 100% SIMILAR TO THE SAME PUNCH!!! Jeeeeeeeeez!!

So yeah,that#s total BS in my opinion. I'll dissect it further if you want me to. 8) ;D :D

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Hopkins needed to do whatever he could to win his fight against Tito? Dude, Hopkins could have walked into the ring with an STD and he still would have schooled Trinidad. Hopkins didn't NEED to do anything other than show up. And to answer the original poster's question, yes, the accusation is true. Otherwise, the NY athletic commission would not have forced Trinidad to rewrap after Hopkins camp issued the complaint.

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Hit the nail on the head.

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I've seen words get twisted more than once so I wouldn't put too much stock into wether Don Felix actually ever said that.

About the part that reads, Otherwise, the NY athletic commission would not have forced Trinidad to rewrap after Hopkins camp issued the complaint. , it is within the rules for them to demand to be present at the time of the handwrap so Tito had to unwrap his hand and rewrap it in their presence.

As far as them noticing something funny during the process, that sounds like hopkins being hopkins.