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Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Right folks need your brains to tell me some more options.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Haven't got time to right much, but I definitely would not say Ali, of course he was good and great, but he just took too many punches in his later years, and even when he was younger got knocked down quite a bit.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
tyson?! id be very interested (and impressed) if somebody could make a case for him over pep or graham.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
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Originally Posted by ryanman89
tyson?! id be very interested (and impressed) if somebody could make a case for him over pep or graham.
Just adding all ones i know in his prime he had good head movement with peek a boo style hardly got hit but no i wouldn't rate him with greats like Pep or ect but he had good defense in his prime.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
thats fair enough,in late 80s he was quite evasive,he didnt get hit much,but this was only in part due to his defense.fear factor played a part as did the simple fact that opponents were far more concerned with their own defense
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Willie pep dominating at moment.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
yeah,i voted for pep,nearly went for graham.i see pep dominating this one
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Heavyweights should almost be in a poll of their own when it comes to defence as I think its really a different game when your that size, e.g. a heavyweight pernell Whitaker just couldn't exist, a big man just can't move that fast
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
I think Pep and Whitaker are the top 2.
I put Whitaker #1 because he moved up thru multiple weight classes, whereas Pep was a featherweight for about his entire career.
Also, Pep was KO'd several times (even in his prime). Whitaker never was.
Whitaker had plenty of fights against world champs where he didn't even have a scratch on him at the end.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
I call a defensive fighter somebody who stays in the pocket and defends. Pep was a mover as was Graham. Whittaker and Burley would make you miss with a handfull of rice and back you up. The thing with Burley he could spark anyone Whittaker couldnt which says a lot for his ability Burley didnt mind giving away 20 lb when the shit hit the fan there was only person getting sparked it wasnt him.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Thats why it does my head in when people Say Mayweather is in Pernells class as a defensive fighter when he clearly aint !!
Sweet Peas punch anticipation was second to none and whilst he had fast feet he was great at making the other man lean and reach with their shots all this whilst being right their in front of them !!
Mayweather is an on your bike man !!!
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Whitaker or Mayweather. Also Swashbuckling gordy Whitaker was second in punch anticipation to Roy JOnes JR. NOBODY had faster reflexes p4p than Roy, and nobody got hit less with effective punches. How can you say Mayweather isn't in Whitaker's class defensively? He has gotten hit less, and even though people say crap about Whitaker fighting toe to toe, Mayweather does it more. Mayweather also is able to counter more effectively off his defense, and his defense works anywhere in the ring while if Whitaker ever got caught on the ropes he could be in trouble. Whitaker got hit alot against a young Oscar who was the only quick guy that I've seen him fight, and Oscar was nowhere near to as fast as Judah who did hit Mayweather, but like I said was alot faster than Oscar ever was. I think Whitaker's biggest advantage is he fought mostly brawlers, and come forward guys who didn't have blazing speed like Nelson, JCC, Vazquez. Even Mcgirt isn't all that fast. I guarantee Mayweather would have made Nelson, JCC, and Vazquez look as silly as he made Baldomir(except maybe JCC, but he would still win decisively).
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Mayweather also is able to counter more effectively off his defense, and his defense works anywhere in the ring while if Whitaker ever got caught on the ropes he could be in trouble.
How many Whitaker fights have you watched?
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Whitaker got hit alot against a young Oscar
No he didn't.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
I watched plenty of Whitaker fights, how many have you watched? ALso Whitaker got hit quite a bit by Oscar, and by some clean punches to. Watch the fight again. oscar landed some hard left hooks, and some other good punches during that fight. I saw Whitaker dodge some no names when he was on the ropes, but I never really saw anybody fast enough of foot to catch Whitaker and effectively keep him on the ropes.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I watched plenty of Whitaker fights, how many have you watched? ALso Whitaker got hit quite a bit by Oscar, and by some clean punches to. Watch the fight again. oscar landed some hard left hooks, and some other good punches during that fight. I saw Whitaker dodge some no names when he was on the ropes, but I never really saw anybody fast enough of foot to catch Whitaker and effectively keep him on the ropes.
Whitaker landed 232 out of 582. De La Hoya landed 191 out of 557. Whitaker outjabbed De La Hoya 160-45.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I watched plenty of Whitaker fights, how many have you watched?
About 35.
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ALso Whitaker got hit quite a bit by Oscar, and by some clean punches to. Watch the fight again. oscar landed some hard left hooks, and some other good punches during that fight.
Oscar landed very few meaningful punches in that entire fight. Neither did Pernell to be fair. And that was when Whitaker was already past his prime.
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I saw Whitaker dodge some no names when he was on the ropes, but I never really saw anybody fast enough of foot to catch Whitaker and effectively keep him on the ropes.
Because there was no one fast enough, it's not due to a lack of quality opposition. I wouldn't call Chavez, Nelson, or McGirt no names.
I defend Floyd pretty strongly when people criticize his choice of opponents, but his opponents are clearly inferior to Whitaker's. Whitaker made a lot of HOFers look bad over the years.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Whitaker or Mayweather. Also Swashbuckling gordy Whitaker was second in punch anticipation to Roy JOnes JR. NOBODY had faster reflexes p4p than Roy, and nobody got hit less with effective punches. How can you say Mayweather isn't in Whitaker's class defensively? He has gotten hit less, and even though people say crap about Whitaker fighting toe to toe, Mayweather does it more. Mayweather also is able to counter more effectively off his defense, and his defense works anywhere in the ring while if Whitaker ever got caught on the ropes he could be in trouble. Whitaker got hit alot against a young Oscar who was the only quick guy that I've seen him fight, and Oscar was nowhere near to as fast as Judah who did hit Mayweather, but like I said was alot faster than Oscar ever was. I think Whitaker's biggest advantage is he fought mostly brawlers, and come forward guys who didn't have blazing speed like Nelson, JCC, Vazquez. Even Mcgirt isn't all that fast. I guarantee Mayweather would have made Nelson, JCC, and Vazquez look as silly as he made Baldomir(except maybe JCC, but he would still win decisively).
I can gurantee you Nelson and JCC could have cut the ring off alot more effectively than Baldomir
Mayweather has a good defence as far as being a counter puncher in the whole goes nobody ive seen can match Sweet Pea certainly not Mayweather !!
Mayweather uses his feet going backwards or coveres with his hands in a high guard on the ropes he is not a great slipper of punches , he uses his shoulder alot.
As far as Mayweather countering more effectively goes id say you are dead wrong but we'd have to sit down with videos of both for me to emphasise my point (JMO)
He may not have Mayweathers power but he could sit down on his shots and land good hooks to head and body .
Mayweather had trouble with JC Castillio and he was a poor mans Chavez , Mayweather uses the perimiter of the ring but Chavez just knew how to cut anyone off to beat him you had to be Pernell whittaker .
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Without a single doubt in my mind Gugliermo Papaleo is #1, followed by Pernell Whittaker.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
HOLY SHAT!!!! :o
YOU FORGOT NICOLINO LOCCHE!!!! :o
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
At the moment we know Whittaker could fight got to find out about Mayweather.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Locche definately with Pep and Whitaker tied for second,
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Although Pernell and Winky rate extremely high IMO, my vote went to "The Radar of St. Just", Wilfred Benitez.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
BTW, I think Sugar Ray Leonard should've been included on that list.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Winky has amazing defence when still so he wins in that respect. Whitaker was great when moving and entertaining in his style of defence but only againsed average fighters he did get tagged a lot more by the better opponents. I would say Whitaker overall. Floyd has a good defence aswell but most of that is running, in the sense that he gets out of the way rather than ducks or slips punches.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Former featherweight champion Johnny Famechon was an exceptional defensive fighter who with a broken bone in his ankle held off Fighting Harada to win a controversial decision against the great Japanese champion who was relentless of his pursuit of opponents. (Famechon won the rematch by KO)
Famechon rarely got tagged by anyone including Saldivar who was given a gift of a decision in Rome in 1970.
Coincidently Willie Pep was the Referee in the first Famechon/Harada fight.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Remember Pep fighting his dad
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
naseem hamed,not the best by a long way but very good.(just dont watch the barrera fight)
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
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Originally Posted by ryanman89
naseem hamed,not the best by a long way but very good.(just dont watch the barrera fight)
Or the Kevin Kelly fight.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
naseem hamed,not the best by a long way but very good.(just dont watch the barrera fight)
Yea sorry mate disagree Naz used to get tagged quite alot in his prime.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
he was off balance against kelley!he did get tagged occasionaly (i wouldnt say quite a lot) but with his style most would have been hit regually.im not implying naz was the greatest defensive boxer of all time,that would be crazy,but a good slipper and mover
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
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Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
his balance was not awful!to throw the punches he did from the angles he did takes exceptional balance.In his first 25 pro fights he barely ever got hit,then he changed his style (and trainer) and became far more hittable,culmulating in his defeat to MAB, a defeat he would not have suffered if he'd stayed with Ingle
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
his balance was not awful!to throw the punches he did from the angles he did takes exceptional balance.In his first 25 pro fights he barely ever got hit,then he changed his style (and trainer) and became far more hittable,culmulating in his defeat to MAB, a defeat he would not have suffered if he'd stayed with Ingle
Ya, it was all Emmanuel Steward's fault.
The difference in results after the first 25 fights might have something to do with the fact that he started fighting good fighters.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Pernell and Pepp are my top 2. Went for Pernell as i grew up watchin alot of his fights and it always amazed me how he flew up the weights embarrasing bigger men at times, phenomenal defence.
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
his balance was not awful!to throw the punches he did from the angles he did takes exceptional balance.In his first 25 pro fights he barely ever got hit,then he changed his style (and trainer) and became far more hittable,culmulating in his defeat to MAB, a defeat he would not have suffered if he'd stayed with Ingle
Ya, it was all Emmanuel Steward's fault.
The difference in results after the first 25 fights might have something to do with the fact that he started fighting good fighters.
damn,you're just too good.it was all naz's fault.it really was,he wasted his talent.also can you not see the obvious change in his style once he left ingle?and that that change would make him more hittable?
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
his balance was not awful!to throw the punches he did from the angles he did takes exceptional balance.In his first 25 pro fights he barely ever got hit,then he changed his style (and trainer) and became far more hittable,culmulating in his defeat to MAB, a defeat he would not have suffered if he'd stayed with Ingle
Ya, it was all Emmanuel Steward's fault.
The difference in results after the first 25 fights might have something to do with the fact that he started fighting good fighters.
damn,you're just too good.it was all naz's fault.it really was,he wasted his talent.also can you not see the obvious change in his style once he left ingle?and that that change would make him more hittable?
I know you're being sarcastic, but is it so wrong to believe that a fighter's loss was actually HIS fault? Have we gone so far with these lame modern day excuses that this is now a strange concept?
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
his balance was not awful!to throw the punches he did from the angles he did takes exceptional balance.In his first 25 pro fights he barely ever got hit,then he changed his style (and trainer) and became far more hittable,culmulating in his defeat to MAB, a defeat he would not have suffered if he'd stayed with Ingle
Ya, it was all Emmanuel Steward's fault.
The difference in results after the first 25 fights might have something to do with the fact that he started fighting good fighters.
damn,you're just too good.it was all naz's fault.it really was,he wasted his talent.also can you not see the obvious change in his style once he left ingle?and that that change would make him more hittable?
I know you're being sarcastic, but is it so wrong to believe that a fighter's loss was actually HIS fault? Have we gone so far with these lame modern day excuses that this is now a strange concept?
Thank you.
Hamed didn't lose to Barrera because he changed his style, or because he left his genius trainer, etc.
He lost because Barrera was BETTER.
If all Hamed had to do to be the best was switch back to his old style or get away from Steward, then he would have done that. Instead, he ran away from the sport and spent the last 5 years eating cheeseburgers. What does that tell you?
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
i was actually being serious,it was naz's fault.he should have stayed with ingle.im not sure who decided to change his stance,but whether that was naz or manny it was a crucial factor in his demise
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Re: Another Question Who Is Best Defensive Fighter Of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman89
he was off balance against kelley!
Exactly!
If there's one common trait that all the great defensive fighters share, it's phenomenal balance. Naz's balance was consistently awful, I don't see how anyone can dispute this. Any cleanly landed punch could either knock him down or send him flailing.
I wouldn't even rank Hamed among the top 15-20 defensive fighters of this decade, let alone all-time.
his balance was not awful!to throw the punches he did from the angles he did takes exceptional balance.In his first 25 pro fights he barely ever got hit,then he changed his style (and trainer) and became far more hittable,culmulating in his defeat to MAB, a defeat he would not have suffered if he'd stayed with Ingle
Ya, it was all Emmanuel Steward's fault.
The difference in results after the first 25 fights might have something to do with the fact that he started fighting good fighters.
damn,you're just too good.it was all naz's fault.it really was,he wasted his talent.also can you not see the obvious change in his style once he left ingle?and that that change would make him more hittable?
I know you're being sarcastic, but is it so wrong to believe that a fighter's loss was actually HIS fault? Have we gone so far with these lame modern day excuses that this is now a strange concept?
Thank you.
Hamed didn't lose to Barrera because he changed his style, or because he left his genius trainer, etc.
He lost because Barrera was BETTER.
If all Hamed had to do to be the best was switch back to his old style or get away from Steward, then he would have done that. Instead, he ran away from the sport and spent the last 5 years eating cheeseburgers. What does that tell you?
did you sc me?you bastard
