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Bloody Sunday!!!
Sunday ,30 January 1972.
City of Londonderry
13 people killed by soldiers of 1 Para after an illegal march through the city.None of the people killed were part of the IRA or any other terorist group.
The marcher said they were fired upon by the paras but the para's say they were returning fire after coming under attack.
Any thoughts or views???
....I got no idea about it....I would like to know more though
It was one of the worst incidents during the troubles in Northen Ireland.
Its more or less a proven fact now that 5 or 6 British Para's lost the plot that day and shot dead 13 of the illegal marchers.Some of whome were throwing stones at the soldiers.
It lead to 100s of young catholics joining the IRA to fight the British army that had originaly been sent to NI to protect them from the prodistets.
it's just more senseless killing over organized religion....it is a bunch of people saying "My God has a bigger penis than yours". Of course there is a disagreement and then someone has to die. All over penis envy/insecurity.....It is amazing that the basic consensus of the religion is do right by your fellow man...but they cannot get past minor/minute and overall insignificant differences...we're all wonderful human beings....but, someone has to be the main guy.....We had this government class and the teacher separated us into 4 groups...he said "If everyone votes 'no" everyone will get 400 dollars. If everyone votes 'no" and one group votes 'yes' the group that votes 'yes' will get 600 dollars and the rest will lose 200 dollars" Every group went broke. Instead of everyone agreeing someone was greedy. they had to be "The Winner" so we all went down instead of everyone getting money.....he even said that the group with the most money would get "A's" for the course. If we all voted "No" we would have got "A's" the first day and would never have to come back to his class for the rest of the semester.....lost a friggin 4.0 because of that...wound up getting a "B" instead.....people are suce douche bags sometimes....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
interesting indeed. to the best of my knowledge U2's song was based on this event correct? good song too might I add!
Wasnt there a bloody Sunday in the Russian revolution as well??
Bloody sunday was nothing to do with religion dick head.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
Thats the 1 mate.
I've a lot of sympathy for the soldiers being put in that situation. They are primarily trained to go to war against another army but in Ireland they were being asked to do the job of the police force. With a soldiers training and mentality it's a recipe for disaster.
Mark Wright was in my year at school. One of two lads from the Scots Guards who did six years of a life sentence for shooting someone in Ulster whilst out on patrol. Now, Wrighty was never the brightest and probably wouldn't have gotten into the police, yet was allowed to patrol and basically police the streets with a rifle.
Sorry for digressing slightly but my point is that it was the government to blame. It was they who let the lads out with ambiguous rules of engagement in a hostile environment to do a job they weren't really suited.
Till this day I still don't know what the hell the conflict is between Britian and the IRA, can someone please explain it, for years I thought that whole Island was one, it's to damn small to be divided
U2 LYRICS
"Sunday Bloody Sunday"
Yes...
I can't believe the news today
Oh, I can't close my eyes
And make it go away
How long...
How long must we sing this song
How long, how long...
'cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...
Broken bottles under children's feet
Bodies strewn across the dead end street
But I won't heed the battle call
It puts my back up
Puts my back up against the wall
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
And the battle's just begun
There's many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters
Torn apart
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
How long...
How long must we sing this song
How long, how long...
'cause tonight...we can be as one
Tonight...tonight...
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Sunday, Bloody Sunday
Wipe the tears from your eyes
Wipe your tears away
Oh, wipe your tears away
Oh, wipe your tears away
(Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
Oh, wipe your blood shot eyes
(Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
Sunday, Bloody Sunday (Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
Sunday, Bloody Sunday (Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
And it's true we are immune
When fact is fiction and TV reality
And today the millions cry
We eat and drink while tomorrow they die
(Sunday, Bloody Sunday)
The real battle just begun
To claim the victory Jesus won
On...
Sunday Bloody Sunday
Sunday Bloody Sunday...
yeah thanks for that Bono
hahah where u been MISSY? havent seen u on in ages? how r things? congrats on hitting the 10,000 mark i notice all ya SC ar gone lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy
heres a CC on me! hollaaaaaar
thanks & hiya, have one back, ;) I've been here, there, around and back again.
When i read this title i was thinkin ... which one ?
The 1st Irish bloody sunday, the second one (the one your talkin about), The American one, THe Palestinian 20 ..... Swear there must be about 80 killings with that title, pretty depressing.
Anyway let's not bring up the past about N.Ireland, my Dad and most of my family are from Belfast and its a lot better over there than it used to be. With Sinn Fein and DUP actually agreeing to share power (unthinkable for the past half century) things are moving forward, its a time for trying to put the past away and looking to the future instead.
HEY ONE OF MY IRISH CO-WORKERS GAVE ME CONNIE GUL? IM SURE I TOTALLY MISPELLED IT BUT THATS HOW IT SOUNDS. ITS LIKE AN IRISH STEW. LIKE BEEF STEW, BUT THIS ONE WAS CHICKEN STEW WITH POTATOES. IT WAS PRETTY DAMN GOOD. ANYONE EVER TRY IT BEFORE?
U2-Sunday Bloody Sunday
[youtube=425,350]JFM7Ty1EEvs&mode=related&search=[/youtube]
What I think happend on bloody sunday!!!
Youth's started throwing stones at the soldiers of 1para(1st battalion of the parachute regiment.
1para were sent in with battons to clear the rioters and make arests.
This is where it gets unclear.Its now an established fact that shots were fired by the IRA or other gunmen at the paras at some stage of the day.Who fired first is unclear.The paras say they were fired on and returned fire,they rioters/marchers said 1para opend fire with out warning.13 rioters/marchers were killed.
What I think happend is that the paras were shot at first and they returned fire with overwhelming force just as they would in a normal combat situation and as they were trained to.The IRA gunmen melted away but 5 or 6 out of control paras kept on shooting at the crowds.
IMO the IRA has to take some of the blame for what happend that day as IMO they started shooting first but that is no excuse for the way 1 para responded.As I have already said most of the deaths were caused by 5 or 6 1para soldiers who were out of control.
P.S.the IRA leader on the ground that day was Martian McGunis who some have said fired the firts shot that started it all. He is now part of the Northen Ireland government.
cc.porkypara
That's about right from all the things I've watched an read about it. Quite supprising how un biased your opinion is cosidering your an ex para an how many paras have been killed by the Provos. You done a tour of Ulster?
I served with 3 Para and did two tours of Ulster/NI. I met some of the guys who had been at Bloody Sunday and they said they were shit scared, in a country that hated them and they heard shots. One of them went down and they reacted as they had been trained to. One guy swore to me that he had been shot in the leg on that day and it was not by a British weapon.
The Parachute Regiment are elite combat troops, not peace keepers and are trained in assault tactics and aggressive manoevers. Also we had nice guns and liked to use them at every opportunity ;D
When I was there, women would spit at you out of windows and empty buckets of shit onto us. Every moment on patrol was tense because snipers and bombers were everywhere. The IRA was, at that time, exactly the same situation as today's Iraqi insurgency. Exactly.
I was proud to serve my country and thus went through extremely tough selection training to be accepted into the best regular unit in the British Army, if not the world. I bear no malice towards anyone Irish and, being Welsh, have some sympathy with being in a small country next to a big one and sometimes wanting to be totally independant....... but we were at war and while it is a tragedy that innocent people lost their lives, that is what you get if you fire at the Parachute Regiment (then, or indeed today) We were tough combat troops with experience in Oman, and various other places that didn't make the history books. I did some nasty things to people in my time (some were from other British Regiments ;))
I don't know what the truth is about Bloody Sunday. Mouths are shut.
I also served with colleagues who told me that they executed Argentine surrenderees rather than take prisoners who would have slowed down the lightning advance in the Falklands.
Shit happens. I bear no ill will towards anyone and can understand how outraged victims' families would be - just as I can understand how outraged families of my friends who were blown up and lost legs were.
CC in 24HRS bro!Quote:
Originally Posted by Smashup
Terrible day... my uncle was in the area at the time of the march and he said the place was in chaos.
Supposedly rocks were thrown at the British soldiers by some of the marchers (confrontations like that were very common back then) and it appeared that the soldiers opened gunfire on hearing word that an IRA sniper was in the area. Irish & British journalists, local residents and marchers have all insisted that the soldiers fired into and unarmed crowd... and the fact that none of the soldiers sutained any injuries like bullet or nail bomb wounds probably backs that up. I'm not sure if we will ever know what really happened!
I find it really tragic that many of the people killed were either shot in the back as they fled or shot as they aided people who were already wounded... that is the part that doesn't fit with me. Seemed like the soldiers were picking off random people or something... either way, a truly tragic event that was a turning point in the troubles... for the worse. :(
I have always wanted to know what happend that day.I have Irish family so that might be the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcitycobra
You would be suprised how many Irish people there are in the Para Reg.
I did Bosnia and Kosovo.
Only went to NI to play rugby in an army tornement.We lost to an SAS/14int team.
.....just looked it up on Wikipedia......John Duddy's uncle was killed in that violence
Yeah, that was Jackie Duddy... there is a mural of him being carried away dying by a priest and a few others on a wall in Rossville street near where the incident took place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Edit: Here is the mural...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_2004_SMC.jpg
Just throwing my two cents in for what it's worth:
A good book that clarifies much of that infamous day was written by Don Mullan, 'Eyewitness to Bloody Sunday'. I had the honor of meeting him at an I.A.U.C. at the U.N. in New York a few years back. Really great guy with no hatred in his soul even though one of his close friends was shot in the back and killed that day. We all went out to get a pint after the presentation at the U.N. as many of my fellow A.O.H. brothers were in attendance. There was also a British journalist in attendance that witnessed the event as a reporter for B.B.C. news. His recollection was quite chilling, to put it in the mildest and most diplomatic terms. The paras, by no fault of their own, just got a bit trigger happy. After all, these men are trained professional soldiers who were dropped into a very volatile situation by their government.
Following a 'rigorous' British investigation, not one of the soldiers were brought up on charges. The Lord Widgery report was an absolute farce and a blatant cover-up. I've read the report and the challenge to his report which really exposes him for a fraud.
What happened in Free Derry that day was a horrible thing, but it doesn't even scratch a particle in the context of mass genocide, An Gorta Mor and all the evils that government has inflicted on the natives of Ireland.
Before this spins out of control, I'll just close with this: 'The Troubles' are still present in the occupied counties of the North. Irish History is replete with redundancy and tragic events. The only end to this conflict would be for the British government to come to it's senses and pull out of the North and allow a full 32 county unification. I certainly don't advocate that people of Scotch and British decent leave Ireland. I, like many others, would like to see them stay in a country that they have roots in for over 800 years. They would just have to surrender to a democracy under a unified nation's laws where they can maintain their own parties and be active participants in the democratic process. That's much more than the British government and past Monarchs gave to us.
If they want to follow their flag back to the U.K., they can cross the Irish sea by whatever means they desire. Although I wouldn't recommend using a raft and pattle. LOL...just trying to lighten the mood.
This in no way is unique to England: Prior to the Battle of Hastings, Irish marauders sacked many areas in England. The U.S. has invaded many sovereign nations and brought about the deaths of many. The debacle in occupying Iraq is the biggest blunder since Vietnam - illegal and clandestine operations in Cambodia only radically
exacerbated the carnage and paved the way for little Hitler's and Stalin's like Pol Pot.
It's unfortunate what's happened to England, too. When I arrived at King's Cross from Doncaster last summer I was amazed at the cultural make-up of the population. It made me think of the insidious nature of America passing on it's mis-virtues to the rest of the globe. But it has more to do with an English bloody and voracious colonialist past.
My relatives are scattered between both England and the south-west region of County Cork. I even have a few that moved on to Bavaria in southern Germany - Absolutely gorgeous country filled with lots of beer drinking beautiful blond women. Just thinking about it gives me...well, I won't go there. My girlfriend will probably find this post with me sorry ass Gael luck.
Nevertheless, this has turned into an incoherent ramble as I've been up for 28 hours doing work. Thanks for the patience to put up with this drivel. Adderall XR really pumps up the dopamine levels. ;D
Peace to all. Many of my closest friends are Brits and the salt of the earth. It's important to set aside antipathy for certain British political positions and put the vast majority of the population that lives under it's rule into perspective. I'm an eternal idealist, and I remain ever hopeful that both sides of the two extremes put down their guns and do the right thing. If someone of the ilk of Trimble can win a Nobel Peace Prize, the unimaginable is no longer a long fought dead end pipe-dream, but a tangible goal for a population of disenfranchised patriots; excluding the thugs of the Real I.R.A., however, I have an equal dislike for the gun touting murderous Paisley-ites and the extremes of the Orange order.
Cheers brothers and sisters. I'm off for a quick nap then out to work with dreams of Valuev lying on the canvas for the count of 10 while pondering what his simian counterparts are up to. ;)
Good film that covers the original topic fairly well is 'Bloody Sunday', which came out in 2002. Check it out if you get a chance. It's very even handed.
As I have already said I think 5 or 6 paras were out of countrol that day and caused most if not all of the deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
I know I am puting you on the spot but who in your opinion fired the first shots?
Also is it accepted by republican's that shots were fired at the paras at some stage of the incident.
That remains a bit unclear, brother. I think that the re-routing of the original march route just threw a ton of gas on an already unmanagable flame. My personal opinion - though it's idle speculation at this point, is that a youngster got hold of a gun and fired. Don Mullan even isn't entirely certain. Yet none of the paras were injured and subsequent rounds fired by certain soldiers were outlandishly high.
I can't speak for Republican Nationalist as opinions vary from thoughtful inference to outright paranoid psychosis of evil and wicked premeditated plots of the absurd. Quite imaginative ones, too, I might add. Guess the only one that knows is the man above.
How's Wales? Haven't had the opportunity to make it there yet. I'll probably try to fit some spots of interest in the fall as I have work in England for a couple of weeks in the fall.
Any suggestions on some cool historic sites, great pubs and good concert venues would be appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Cant go wrong with a vist to Cardiff.Loads of stuff to do + see.Cardiff Castle,milleium stadium loads of good pubs.
Lots of gigs on through out the year.
Cardiff Bay is also great when the weather is nice.
Have fun.
Porky, Shadow, Brilliant cc to you both
Cheers, mate. Thanks for the info - Cardiff was definitely on the tentative agenda and has now been moved to a must see. Also have a couple of buddies down in Plymouth that I want to visit before I get sucked into family obligations. Almost caught Chick Corea at Ronnie Scott's last year, but the idiot I have for a cousin drank herself into oblivion the night prior to the show and I took off from London and headed to Aldershot (sp?) to see my Aunt and other family. Can't keep up with piss-heads on a vacation as you tend to fall into a spell of complacency and lose your ambition. :PQuote:
Cant go wrong with a vist to Cardiff.Loads of stuff to do + see.Cardiff Castle,milleium stadium loads of good pubs.
Lots of gigs on through out the year.
Cardiff Bay is also great when the weather is nice.
Have fun.
Nevertheless, interesting thread, and it's always good to find a like-minded poster who is civil and inquisitive. Thanks for that, Porky. ;) Enjoy your weekend, and if you come across any interesting reads related to this topic, please send the information off to me. As my Father is very prone to say: "There are 3 sides to every story, opposing views on their respective ends of the pole, and the truth waiting to be discovered somewhere in between both polarities" I found that hard to accept for a while, but now I'm convinced that it's an accurate axiom. With age comes the indispensable attribute of wisdom, which is a blessing in itself.
Cheers mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Any info and I will pass it on.I have heared "From guns to government" is a good read and covers bloody sunday.
I was baced in Aldershot,bit of a shit hole but never mind.
CC
Yeah, Aldershot is a bit of a shithole. LOL But it's abundantly better than staying up in Canary Wharf with a neurotic binge drinker. Plus, my Aunt is starting to get up in years and the mold was broken after her - they don't come any better. I'll look into that read that you mentioned as I never heard of it. If I come across anything else I'll be sure to pass it your way. CC
Porky, just a quick one. You dont post on ARRSE by any chance do you mate?
They can be a touchy bunch on there lol.
Yes mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky
I started a bloody sunday thread on there as well.Its in the infantry section.
Your right about them being a moody bunch.
A quality song but awful lyrics!! Dreadful!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P
Alright Woody Guthrie, I mean Miles. Why dont you write us some better Bloody Sunday lyrics.....?
I wrote a song about being musunderstood by all the members of Saddoboxing.com .
Its called , 'why is everybody a cunt except me ?'
CC Gordy. YOu have such wierd comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy