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Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Right im going to get ton of sad clicks but i couldn't care less i think Ali was very good fighter with good skills but i do feel he was tad overrated here are my reasons why lets start at beginning
Right first Ali vs Cooper fight Ali got dropped and looked gone to me but split glove controversy and smelling salts which wasn't allowed in Uk at that time i believe saved him and Cooper in todays standards wouldn't even be heavyweight he would probably be lightheavyweight right secondly lets go to Doug Jones fight which Ali did struggle against average Jones who hit Ali clean sometimes again close fight but Ali did deserve now lets go to 70s he fought Frazier and got stuffing beat out of him and lost decision fair play was great fight by Frazier but thing i don't like is all these gift decisions Ali gets like Ken Norton fights arguably Norton could have won all 3 i gave Norton 2 out of 3 fights would Ali have been greatest if he would of lost 2 out of 3 against Norton ?? i don't think so and then theres this gift decision against Jimmy Young in which i felt Young deserved again would he have been greatest if he would of lost decision against Young i think not and again theres controversial decision against Shavers which could of gone either way right now let me finish this by saying Ali had some heart and hell of a chin and beat great fighters but overall i feel he is overrated by alot of people sc me all you want but thats my two cents.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Fair play for that post, Ice :coolclick:
If Ali had of retired after beating Foreman he would be beyond clouds today and possibly in the orbit of the earth! ;)
He was human as are all boxers and deserves reevaluation as all other great boxers do to.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?
Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ill give you a cool click for the courage of your convictions. But remember Ali had to many hard ones one after the other so his condition was never as it should be or his mindsett. But his Bottle always got him through.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Thanks Scrap and Miles ccs back i know im going to get pasted on this thread but i speak whats on my mind.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?
Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.
Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?
Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.
Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one
See thats where your wrong he wasn't unbeatable in 60s the average Doug Jones gave Ali good arguement losing sd and Cooper dropped Ali who is not even hw by the standards now and therers even controversy in that with split glove and smelling salts Ali was good but not unbeatable and Ali used same footwork he did in 60s against Norton and still lost and arguably Norton could of won all 3.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?
Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.
Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one
See thats where your wrong he wasn't unbeatable in 60s the average Doug Jones gave Ali good arguement losing sd and Cooper dropped Ali who is not even hw by the standards now and therers even controversy in that with split glove and smelling salts Ali was good but not unbeatable and Ali used same footwork he did in 60s against Norton and still lost and arguably Norton could of won all 3.
Again
He was blind for a full round against Liston,the same Liston that everyone said he couldnt beat
Screwing around with Cooper and getting caught with a punchers chance doesnt make him overrated,a little to arrogant for his own good,but Ive made that complaint before
Of course,he made London,Mildenberger and Williams pay dearly for that,didnt he?
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?
Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.
Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one
See thats where your wrong he wasn't unbeatable in 60s the average Doug Jones gave Ali good arguement losing sd and Cooper dropped Ali who is not even hw by the standards now and therers even controversy in that with split glove and smelling salts Ali was good but not unbeatable and Ali used same footwork he did in 60s against Norton and still lost and arguably Norton could of won all 3.
Again
He was blind for a full round against Liston,the same Liston that everyone said he couldnt beat
Screwing around with Cooper and getting caught with a punchers chance doesnt make him overrated,a little to arrogant for his own good,but Ive made that complaint before
Of course,he made London,Mildenberger and Williams pay dearly for that,didnt he?
London wasn't good fighter Mild who ?? and Williams was an average contender at best and how old was Liston against Ali ??
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Liston was 32,not exactly elderly,and he didnt have those "issues" hed develop in the late 60's
Liston was a damn shame,if he hadnt run in to Ali,hed have been a great.
And if he hadnt developed issues,he might have fought his way back in to the mix
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Liston was 32,not exactly elderly,and he didnt have those "issues" hed develop in the late 60's
Liston was a damn shame,if he hadnt run in to Ali,hed have been a great.
And if he hadnt developed issues,he might have fought his way back in to the mix
I thought he was more like 38 and lied about his age unless im wrong ??
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Date of birth 5-8-32
Ali Liston happened in 64
He kept fighting for another 6 years
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
i do agree he was overated but theres still no doubt he is one of the best heavyweights theres ever been but ice cold pointed out he had trouble with some fighters the main one being norton but if i remember rightly b4 when i said that louis could beat ali nd mentioned that ali struggled wid norton u said that dont mean nothing cos he was a difficult fighter so i dont no how u can use that aginst him now nd if it wasnt u sorry. cc for saying what many think
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by warreng
i do agree he was overated but theres still no doubt he is one of the best heavyweights theres ever been but ice cold pointed out he had trouble with some fighters the main one being norton but if i remember rightly b4 when i said that louis could beat ali nd mentioned that ali struggled wid norton u said that dont mean nothing cos he was a difficult fighter so i dont no how u can use that aginst him now nd if it wasnt u sorry. cc for saying what many think
cc back mate yea i have studied Ali bit more recently and watched his fights and i do feel he is overrated.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
That saying the bigger they are the harder they fall. Theres another The Littler they are the further they go
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Fair enough nd i no its off the topic but who do u think the best ever hevyweight was? for me its joe louis which i no many of u wont agree but from wot ive seen of him nd other heavyweights in their prime i dont think ne1 could beat him nd even if they did he would beat them in the rematch.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by warreng
Fair enough nd i no its off the topic but who do u think the best ever hevyweight was? for me its joe louis which i no many of u wont agree but from wot ive seen of him nd other heavyweights in their prime i dont think ne1 could beat him nd even if they did he would beat them in the rematch.
Umm not sure Maybe Joe Louis but its debatable but i think Holmes would beat Louis.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
No he fought his first fight in 53
So thats totally congruent with the 32 birth date,there is no evidence to support anything to the contrary,and there is evidence to support his given birthday
And the family census records for 1930 list no Charles,but it does list his siblings
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by amat
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
It's not nitpicking at all he got alot of gift decision and yes call me crazy but who knows what would of happened without smelling salts Ali was out of it and that woke him back up and they wernt even allowed so actually he should of been dq
And he struggled against boxers like Norton and Young made Ali look ordinary and should of got nod just say he would of lost 2 decision against Norton which i think he should have and decisions against Shavers and Young would he be greatest hw of all time still ??
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
No he fought his first fight in 53
So thats totally congruent with the 32 birth date,there is no evidence to support anything to the contrary,and there is evidence to support his given birthday
And the family census records for 1930 list no Charles,but it does list his siblings
Dude, how can somebody who lives next door not know how old Liston was? They said he was around well before 1934, and that he was already a kid playing with their children by that time period?
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.
That's perfect well said totally agree :coolclick:
CC back, I know we've had a disagreements, and my paragraph there didn't make sense, but Ali was too unconventional, and keeping his hands that low would have caused him alot of problems against real boxers with or without his footwork because that can be timed especially when the opponent is dancing around it easier to for me at least to see when they come in.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ask Ron Lyle if he was overrated
And dude,it was a goverment census that says he didnt exist,but his siblings did
So other then the goverment census records,and his prison records,and his boxing records we've got nothing right?
An elderly,illiterate sharecropers memory,asked years upon years later is much more accurate right?
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by amat
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
CC,excellent post. Ali's achievemnts are being belittled somewhat here! Don't just look at the close fights/losses,look at who he beat first and second,to whomever said Lewis could beat Ali......... ::** ::**
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that then Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
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Originally Posted by amat
Ali wasn't unbeatable no one is. But he is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Fought the best, beat the best even when he was past his best.
He had trouble with Cooper early in his career, the split glove gave him an 11 second rest, and who's to say he couldn't have won that fight without the glove and salts?
Jones had just beat Zora Folley and was at his absolute best against a young Ali who was in between big fights. And Ali still won. And he was still 2 or 3 years from his prime.
IMO, he beat Norton twice, and one with a broken jaw.
But, those are minor footnotes of Ali's career. Honestly, that's nitpicking very much ICB. He fought in the strongest era of heavyweight history, gave some of the best fights of all time, and pretty well dominated.
CC,excellent post. Ali's achievemnts are being belittled somewhat here! Don't just look at the close fights/losses,look at who he beat first and second,to whomever said Lewis could beat Ali......... ::** ::**
No one is taking away his achievements the title thread stated was he overrated and i believe he was and is it so hard to believe that 240 pound good hw like Lewis can't beat Ali ??
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
It is nitpicking though ICB, because honestly, Doug Jones? He beat Jones anyways. They aren't gifts they were close. Chavez - Whitaker was a gift, Ali never got any gifts there are very very strong cases that he has legitimately won every fight that he is won. The Jones fight was a good one, but Ali won comfortably imo. Jones certainly didn't win.
Ali isn't a great for his wins over Cooper and Jones, so for arguments sake, lets say he did lose those, would he still not be the greatest heavyweight of all time? He would be number 2 at the very worst.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by amat
It is nitpicking though ICB, because honestly, Doug Jones? He beat Jones anyways. They aren't gifts they were close. Chavez - Whitaker was a gift, Ali never got any gifts there are very very strong cases that he has legitimately won every fight that he is won. The Jones fight was a good one, but Ali won comfortably imo. Jones certainly didn't win.
Ali isn't a great for his wins over Cooper and Jones, so for arguments sake, lets say he did lose those, would he still not be the greatest heavyweight of all time? He would be number 2 at the very worst.
But Jones was average and he did struggle with him and i already gave my reasons about Cooper he would be Lightheavyweight in todays standards yet Ali had to have smelling salts to wake him up and actually Ali did get gifts Norton should of won 3rd fight like alot of people think and Jimmy Young made Ali look ordinary and should of got decision and he wouldn't be number 2 if he would of lost these decisions i can guarantee you that.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Ask Ron Lyle if he was overrated
And dude,it was a goverment census that says he didnt exist,but his siblings did
So other then the goverment census records,and his prison records,and his boxing records we've got nothing right?
An elderly,illiterate sharecropers memory,asked years upon years later is much more accurate right?
Then why does virtually every boxing expert agree with the fact he couldn't be 32? Do you have proof of the this census, where did you read this etc.? Maybe you were misinformed. PS Ron Lyle was a joke.
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Ron Lyle fight with Ali was pretty even until he run out of steam imo he is overrated like quite few people on here agree with aswell and i think Holmes would beat him and Lewis would have good shot aswell.
Lyle was a pure physical specimen,and a plodding specimen like Lewis would have been manna from heaven for Ali
Lyle used to plod aswell and was open Lewis was tall and in his younger days was fast and had good power and Lewis would give Ali fits and no way Ali beats Lewis easy.
When did Lewis give anyone fits? Hell Klitschko(not exactly a speed demon) was outpointing Lewis
When did Lewis give anyone fits ?? uhh he was best hw fighter of last 15 years and Klit was tall and rangy and gave Lewis trouble but Lewis was past it and still won in 6 and if your saying that Ron Lyle wasn't speed demon nor was Doug Jones nor was Cooper but these guys gave Ali good argument.
Yet another way your judging this wrong
If a champ fights twice a year now we consider him an active fighter,the year Ali fought Lyle,he also fought Wepner,Bugner,and Frazier
The year he fought Cooper,he also fought Chuvalo,Mildenburger,Williams,and London
But whats that got to do with these guys i mentioned who aren't fast giving Ali trouble ?? hell Mike Tyson had like 10 fights a year and that was better for him because it kept him focused.
Only for the first 2 years of his career,he never had more then 4 in a year after that
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Re: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??
Well if you match up Ali that faced Jones versus Lewis, Lewis would probably win but that wasn't a big fight. Lewis would be a big fight, bet he would be better then then he was against Jones. Lewis looked worse then ordinary in a routine title defense against Rahman because the fight probably didn't mean much to him.
