Who taught James Toney the defensive...

i wanna know who taught james toney the defensive moves he knows. i mean i watched his fights against holyfield and his defensive skills were picture perfect! the shoulder roll, rolling with the punches, etc. its truly amazing. he stands in front of guys n its hard to hit him!

i did read in an interview of james toney that he said he learnt these moves by watching old time fighters like archie moore ( moore knocked marciano down with a shoulder roll counter) robinson, ezzard charles and walcott. he goes on to say that at first it wasnt working for him n he used to take a beating in sparring but once he got the hand of it (knowing which defensive move to make after a certain punch in a certain position) he wasnt getting hit much.

bill miller is the guy who trained toney and he watched alot of films of old time fighters with toney. im jus wondering did he actually teach him them moves. and where can somebody learn that sort of defense?

You pretty much got it down right there bro...

He sat down with his trainer and would watch the charles, walcott and archie moore fights and adapted his style to it... It wouldnt have been perfect from the get go but toney is a natural athlete by the time he would have had ten pro fights against competition who couldnt match up in any way and we all know how toney loves to spar..He even does far too much sparring when training and not enough of everything else!

So yeah i mean what you see from james toney now is the result of ALOT of professional fights..
Hes damn near 40 years old and hes definate top 10 material in any weight he could make and thats off just heart and experiance, and the will to fight

thanks for the reply.
orite, i think its a mixture of teaching himself, trial n error and experience. i mean im not sure if they teach such a style in any gyms. i've heard of the philly defense which is basically what toney dus but its not text book stuff, i think its self taught stuff which really works in the ring. very effective!

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

thanks for the reply.
orite, i think its a mixture of teaching himself, trial n error and experience. i mean im not sure if they teach such a style in any gyms. i've heard of the philly defense which is basically what toney dus but its not text book stuff, i think its self taught stuff which really works in the ring. very effective!

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You probably wont find a certain gym or anything like that to teach you such a style..

You could get certain people to teach you to fight like that for example..Floyd mayweather sr taught floyd jr to defend himself with the shoulder roll etc..Basically the same stuff but everybody puts theyr own spin on it..

i found this interesting article on floyd sr. he even says jt taught himself, http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:I...lnk&cd=9&gl=uk

maybe its true and once U GET THE BASICS and understand them properly u cAn teach urself these moves. interesting cos floyd n toney both use similar moves toney doesnt run around like floyd does sometmes. toney is more of a stationary target yet still hard to hit. toney also does bobbing and weaving unlike floyd, and he bends his body to his right to avoid a left hook, something i have never seen floyd do. but they both do the shoulder roll but its not exactly the same.

but hey tito i guess ur right, same move but fighters put their on mix into it. ;)
thanks for tryna help out bro

Yo cc for the interview..Pretty interesting..

Lol..He wrong about all the other trainers... But right about toney..

Toney respects roach but roach doesnt have that discipline over him to make him train hard..

AND in my opinion this is because toney feels like he doesnt owe anyone anything..Because he is self taught basically..no one taught him in the first place so no one has that power over him to tell him shape up and get serious and into shape before this fight..Roach is always disapointed with the weight toney comes in at..

But roach does great work for young lighter fighters like vasquez and floyd just needs to badmouth him lol

Its pretty much passed down to you...and from what your taught,you adapt to what works for you.Toney and Floyds defense differs slightly.If you notice Floyd relies a lot on his ability to see punches coming(without this, he'd get KO'd by hooks all day).Toneys is fairly basic because he relies more on focusing on a few punches to block,etc...
Its not widely taught because it wont work in the Amateur ranks...and not to many people change their whole style of boxing right away.

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Originally Posted by Olympian904

Its pretty much passed down to you...and from what your taught,you adapt to what works for you.Toney and Floyds defense differs slightly.If you notice Floyd relies a lot on his ability to see punches coming(without this, he'd get KO'd by hooks all day).Toneys is fairly basic because he relies more on focusing on a few punches to block,etc...
Its not widely taught because it wont work in the Amateur ranks...and not to many people change their whole style of boxing right away.

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Yea i hear you bro..My basic thoughts on it is..Unless you are a very good fighter amatuer or pro..
And you know for a fact you gots good reflexes..I just wouldnt do it..
You gota be special to get away with something so dangerous.. Most fighters should just stick to keeping theyr hands up

Most good defensive fighters know where punches don't go. That's why they roll their shoulders and give angles and head movement. the punch can only go in one direction at a time, so if you roll out of range of that punch you miss getting hit and you are position to counter.

Toney has a defensive style that you can watch other fighters do and pick up on the technique but not actually mimick it to perfection like putting your hands up high ect...you have to learn to roll with punches and it takes some practice and at times some painful practice lol

Yeah James Toney has an amazing defence, goes unoticed by alot of people. Actually James Toney was an amazingly talented fighter period.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Toney has a defensive style that you can watch other fighters do and pick up on the technique but not actually mimick it to perfection like putting your hands up high ect...you have to learn to roll with punches and it takes some practice and at times some painful practice lol

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It's called "old school" and PBF is also a master at it. Subtle stuff.

In the midwest...there is no name for it.

Toney watched tapes of guys like Archie Moore I believe, and then made his own style from that shoulder rolling technique.

While I agree James is a great defensive fighter holyfield sucks horrendously now his punches are slow and totally predictable, much like tyson you see everything coming, tony does something to a lesser extent than what mayweather does he turns his back, fighters should punch him in the kidneys each time, you cannot turn your back its illegal

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Originally Posted by cockey cockney

Yeah James Toney has an amazing defence, goes unoticed by alot of people. Actually James Toney was an amazingly talented fighter period.

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thats because punches either just barely miss him or he doesn't that the shot clean.

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Originally Posted by pacdog

While I agree James is a great defensive fighter holyfield sucks horrendously now his punches are slow and totally predictable, much like tyson you see everything coming, tony does something to a lesser extent than what mayweather does he turns his back, fighters should punch him in the kidneys each time, you cannot turn your back its illegal

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Have you seen young Tyson? YOu couldn't see his punches comming except his leaping left hook. Nobody can connect like that if they tell their punches. Also Toney was a far better fighter when he was lighter Even his fight with Nunn most of the punches landed by Nunn were glancing while he connected with heavy right counters which eventually took Nunn out.