stance for close range fighting

Hi :) I haven't asked a stupid Q for at least a few hours so I thought of another one!


I have always been under the impression that your stance does not change because of distancing but I came across some pictures in the Australian Boxing Coaching Technical Handbook with differing stances according to range.

There are 3 pictures classifying boxing as either long, medium or close range fighting. The long range boxing stance was as I have always been taught (one foot foreward and one back) but the medium and close range pictures had the boxers standing with their feet parallel.

I know that this was not just an error since it was clearly written in the captions beneath the photo also.

To me this makes no sense since I'd still want want one foot back to allow me to push off but perhaps it's right and i just haven't been taught this yet?

I think it's true that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I don't want to assume it's wrong without asking more experienced people first.

So what's the verdict?

First: Q's are never stupid, it's stupid not to ask them ;)

and about the stance:
When i fight up close i also stand with my feet parallel. I find it to be more stable and i'm able to put power in my punches. Also it's easier to move away in all directions if nessesary and it's easier to keep my opponent 'cornered'. My trainer never comments on it. So i'm curious as wel what the experts here have to say about it.

You say though, that you want one foot back to push of??? We are thougt never to do so (to push off i mean), for a few reasons:
- you throw your balace away, because you don't have your bodyweight over two feet, which makes it a lot easier to move and react
- you risk taking you back foot off the ground (in as a result the first reason applies again ;) )
- you 'fall' into your opponant. It makes it easier for your opponent to hit you, he or she only has to wait for you, 'stumbling in'.

We are thougt to throw the punches, hooks and straights from shoulder and hip. not pushing from your legs or feet. You twist them in the movement, but in essence don't take the weight of your feet (which, as far as i can tell, is always a fact if one should push from the feet...)

Thanks Killerqueen :)

I definitely see your point as far as not pushing off. I guess I am considering needing to push back against my opponent's weight and the force of their punch. I am short and have trouble getting in so if I can get inside against a taller opponent I like to stay there for as long as possible. I don't usually feel like I fall foreward often because I'm normally pushing in response to an opposing force or weight.

My sparring partners will often lean on me whenever I am fighting in close range. I then feel I need to push them back so I can resume my attack. Perhaps this isn't really relevant since girls my size don't do it to me when I fight in competition. The ref would also usually force us to break. I guess it's just something I feel I need to cope with in training.

I also need to lean into my guard to brace it hard enough to take punches from my sparring partners as they are heavier. I prefer to slip or parry but I can't do that too much because it gets messy and frustrates the hell out of my coach.

When that happens the result is generally a drill involving me trying to hold my hands against my head while he hits them for half an hour hoping something will suddenly click and I'll miraculously get it. I don't feel comfortable with this style but it's seen as part of the basics in my gym to be able to push through an attack with your hands braced against your head so learning it may not be optional for me.

Do you not find you fall back very easily since the back foot isn't there to act as a breaking mechanism?

Do you feel you stand square and are open for uppercuts on a lot when your feet are parallel?

What makes you want to stand with your feet parallel? Does it give you a stronger right hand or let you throw flurries more easily?

For technique the Ams and Pros are a different sport nowadays, thats why a good amatuer today isnt a sure bet to succeed as a Pro, not that its always been the case but less chance now. I think you know what I mean without an explanation, no Ill have to Ams dont seem to work in close and dont turn there man nowadays its a no no. Pros do thats why you can go square in the pros for an inside spot or a con or shift off then hit there inside leg with the knee little nautghties or little shifts with either foot while holding an elbow its from these positions where you change your levels and stance and foot placements for stability and leverage. It all depends on style. At the end of the day it goes dark, if it wasnt for venetian blinds it would be curtains for us all.

Boddington's ro Guiness for brekky this morning, Scrap? :lickish:

Whenever I spar with someone better than me OR taller than me, I push 'em into the corner and work inside. I push em in, square up a bit, and try to bounce frm side to side and thrwo body shots (my bread and butter) a la Ricky Hatton

whever I spar someone bigger/taller AND better than me, I move a hell of a lot. It's my only chance to survive. lol. But in this case I'll still try to push 'em back and work the body. Few guy at my gym have my body shots. But many equal or better my jab, which is average/adequate at best. Against the shorter guys it's more of a range finder.

Thanks everyone - CCs all round  :)

Scary how much I still don't know after 6 years! Change from kickboxing to boxing because I wasn't taught to punch as well as a kickboxer and now seems to be a similar thing between Am and Pro boxing! Sad that there's so much knowledge being lost to the sport. You'll just have to write a big a*** boxing encyclopedia for the coach and advanced boxer to record it all Scrap!

It depends on your opponents height
If your the smaller boxer,go low
If your the taller crowd and pressure
It also depends on how much of a punch you think they have,and how much you trust the ref

Thanks Monkey CC,

So you agree that the feet of the boxer going low should be parallel?
How does a taller bxer crowd someone while using their full reach Monkey? Do you mean just throw a lot of punches?

And just because I'm curious Von why do you think your body shots are relatively good? Something to do with your baseball backgroud? Does the movement or the way you generate power seem a little familiar to something from baseball?

How are you supposed to get any weight into your punches with both feet parallel? I don't understand any of that business.

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

How are you supposed to get any weight into your punches with both feet parallel? I don't understand any of that business.

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Thats exactly what i thought!
If your feet are parallel your only giving yoru oponent a larger area to hit. liek for example if you feet are parallel your whole chest is square on with your opponent. My trainer tells me that everytime you punch try to leave as least amount of body area as possible for them to hit. so instead of punchign with just your arms you put yoru whole shoulder and hip into it. This gives you more power and gives yoru opponent a smaller target to hit. this facing them straight on stuff isn't right. i think if you were stanced like that and punched you would only be moving yoru arms :-\ whereas you get more power from twisting your whole body into yoru shots.

Also you can't get nearly as much power and reach if your stanced like that. just now throw yoru hand otu liek a punch without moving your body whatsoever. now put your whole shoulder into yoru punch and twist. so like if you were throwing your left hand out yoru chest should be facing right to where yoru chest was originally facing. ;) which one got the most reach? try this on a punxhign bag and see which one has more power to ;)

The only thing that changes biomechanicaly is the angle of the head in relation to the back foot depending where the other fellow is, and youve just put him there.

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Originally Posted by Grand

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

How are you supposed to get any weight into your punches with both feet parallel? I don't understand any of that business.

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Thats exactly what i thought!
If your feet are parallel your only giving yoru oponent a larger area to hit. liek for example if you feet are parallel your whole chest is square on with your opponent. My trainer tells me that everytime you punch try to leave as least amount of body area as possible for them to hit. so instead of punchign with just your arms you put yoru whole shoulder and hip into it. This gives you more power and gives yoru opponent a smaller target to hit. this facing them straight on stuff isn't right. i think if you were stanced like that and punched you would only be moving yoru arms :-\ whereas you get more power from twisting your whole body into yoru shots.

Also you can't get nearly as much power and reach if your stanced like that. just now throw yoru hand otu liek a punch without moving your body whatsoever. now put your whole shoulder into yoru punch and twist. so like if you were throwing your left hand out yoru chest should be facing right to where yoru chest was originally facing. ;) which one got the most reach? try this on a punxhign bag and see which one has more power to ;)

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How do you think the arms should be held?

Scrap I could have misinterpreted you but are you saying that if you have your opponent in the right place then having your feet parallel is OK?

Is it just that you don't need to reach as far so don't need to set up with a long jab?

I still don't understand where the power comes with feet parallel from either.

I'd also assumed squaring up was bad too?

Von maybe you can help me here too since you like to attack the body and fight close range?

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

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Originally Posted by Grand

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

How are you supposed to get any weight into your punches with both feet parallel? I don't understand any of that business.

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Thats exactly what i thought!
If your feet are parallel your only giving yoru oponent a larger area to hit. liek for example if you feet are parallel your whole chest is square on with your opponent. My trainer tells me that everytime you punch try to leave as least amount of body area as possible for them to hit. so instead of punchign with just your arms you put yoru whole shoulder and hip into it. This gives you more power and gives yoru opponent a smaller target to hit. this facing them straight on stuff isn't right. i think if you were stanced like that and punched you would only be moving yoru arms :-\ whereas you get more power from twisting your whole body into yoru shots.

Also you can't get nearly as much power and reach if your stanced like that. just now throw yoru hand otu liek a punch without moving your body whatsoever. now put your whole shoulder into yoru punch and twist. so like if you were throwing your left hand out yoru chest should be facing right to where yoru chest was originally facing. ;) which one got the most reach? try this on a punxhign bag and see which one has more power to ;)

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How do you think the arms should be held?

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In my own humble opinion ;).. i beleive the right hand should be held on your cheek just under your eye as to protect you from left hooks and also acts as a parry. it can easily be held up to cover teh side of yoru head from hooks and brought down to parry the jab :) and your left hand should be held out infront of you not touching your face ( it acts as a block ;) ) so you can just see over the glove aswell. notice if you bring your elbow out your hand lowers hence leavign a bigger target. the reason you dont hold your jab hand really close to yoru face is cause this gives your jab less distance to reach your opponent then if you had it touching your face. also when your opponent throws a punch you can just block it rather than holding your hands against your face and let him hit you that way ( i find it still hurts the face even if yoru hands are there ). i beleive your body should be facing diagonally to your right ( or left if yoru a southpaw ) as to leaving not as much target as you would give your opponent facing him square on. but your head should be facing your opponent kind of tucked down into your shoulder. kind of like bernard hopkins.

all in my own opinion of course ;D

Sharla, there are lots of little shifts that put you square for a con its a matter of turning the feet for direction and a shift of the shoulder to draw a shot to counter. most good fighters do it

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Originally Posted by Grand

In my own humble opinion ;).. i beleive the right hand should be held on your cheek just under your eye as to protect you from left hooks and also acts as a parry. it can easily be held up to cover teh side of yoru head from hooks and brought down to parry the jab :) and your left hand should be held out infront of you not touching your face ( it acts as a block ;) ) so you can just see over the glove aswell. notice if you bring your elbow out your hand lowers hence leavign a bigger target. the reason you dont hold your jab hand really close to yoru face is cause this gives your jab less distance to reach your opponent then if you had it touching your face. also when your opponent throws a punch you can just block it rather than holding your hands against your face and let him hit you that way ( i find it still hurts the face even if yoru hands are there ). i beleive your body should be facing diagonally to your right ( or left if yoru a southpaw ) as to leaving not as much target as you would give your opponent facing him square on. but your head should be facing your opponent kind of tucked down into your shoulder. kind of like bernard hopkins.

all in my own opinion of course ;D

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I agree with everything you said there.

I once held my right hand up around my cheek for the same reasons. Like you say it allows you to parry the jab or block the left hook in least amount of time possible as the hand only needs to travel a couple inches for either maneuver. One problem I encountered with this tactic (and I imagine that you also have) was that to throw a right hand - a real right hand with full weight and leverage - I had to cock back my hand. I would have to do this because the right hand was not placed in a natural position to punch. Simply put; you can't punch from your cheek. Not with any real force anyway. The right hand naturally wants to be thrown with the hand at around chest level (right side) just under the neck.

That scares a lot of people to think about holding the right hand down there because they depend on blocking and not on slipping/rolling and controlling distance. The great irony of it is that by depending on blocking as your main means of defense you get you hit much more than you should. Slipping/rolling and controlling distance is the superior way to defend yourself from punches. Thus a proper stance would be one that best allows the body to slip/roll and control distance. I can't say that holding the hands up to the head does this.

I agree with your point about making the body a smaller target by standing 'diagonal'. This flows back the underpinnings of smart boxing in that you should show your opponent the least amount of targets to hit as possible. This way you can control where he will try to punch to with greater predictability. If you give him many options he will act unpredictably; if you give him only some options you take away the bulk of his punches and leave him in a predictable state.

Anyhow thanks for the response Grand. Its obvious to me that you approach boxing in very well thought out way.

Yep, lots to think about there from everyone. Thanks :)

One little thing, basicaly we are always square. Its what were looking at makes the difference, think about it. :laugh:

Thanks Scrap - something to mull over CC :)

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

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Originally Posted by Grand

In my own humble opinion ;).. i beleive the right hand should be held on your cheek just under your eye as to protect you from left hooks and also acts as a parry. it can easily be held up to cover teh side of yoru head from hooks and brought down to parry the jab :) and your left hand should be held out infront of you not touching your face ( it acts as a block ;) ) so you can just see over the glove aswell. notice if you bring your elbow out your hand lowers hence leavign a bigger target. the reason you dont hold your jab hand really close to yoru face is cause this gives your jab less distance to reach your opponent then if you had it touching your face. also when your opponent throws a punch you can just block it rather than holding your hands against your face and let him hit you that way ( i find it still hurts the face even if yoru hands are there ). i beleive your body should be facing diagonally to your right ( or left if yoru a southpaw ) as to leaving not as much target as you would give your opponent facing him square on. but your head should be facing your opponent kind of tucked down into your shoulder. kind of like bernard hopkins.

all in my own opinion of course ;D

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I agree with everything you said there.

I once held my right hand up around my cheek for the same reasons. Like you say it allows you to parry the jab or block the left hook in least amount of time possible as the hand only needs to travel a couple inches for either maneuver. One problem I encountered with this tactic (and I imagine that you also have) was that to throw a right hand - a real right hand with full weight and leverage - I had to cock back my hand. I would have to do this because the right hand was not placed in a natural position to punch. Simply put; you can't punch from your cheek. Not with any real force anyway. The right hand naturally wants to be thrown with the hand at around chest level (right side) just under the neck.

That scares a lot of people to think about holding the right hand down there because they depend on blocking and not on slipping/rolling and controlling distance. The great irony of it is that by depending on blocking as your main means of defense you get you hit much more than you should. Slipping/rolling and controlling distance is the superior way to defend yourself from punches. Thus a proper stance would be one that best allows the body to slip/roll and control distance. I can't say that holding the hands up to the head does this.

I agree with your point about making the body a smaller target by standing 'diagonal'. This flows back the underpinnings of smart boxing in that you should show your opponent the least amount of targets to hit as possible. This way you can control where he will try to punch to with greater predictability. If you give him many options he will act unpredictably; if you give him only some options you take away the bulk of his punches and leave him in a predictable state.

Anyhow thanks for the response Grand. Its obvious to me that you approach boxing in very well thought out way.

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You raise good points which i never even thought of before! ;D
I been thinkign about what you said for a few days and it does make sense! the arm does naturally want to be thrown from beneath your chin but like you said this dos leave yoru face open. the slipping and rolling thing makes sense aswell if you can perfect it ;) i think the slipping and rolling tactic can be very hard to perfect but when done so it would be very effective. if your like me and have not perfected it ;D then you tend to eat alot of glove
well thank YOU for the reply ;) made me think about it a bit more

more video info about the boxing stance...
http://www.5min.com/Video/The-boxing...PLSLaz%2fI8%3d

Cant get it to play, Im lost on these things

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Originally Posted by Scrap

One little thing, basicaly we are always square. Its what were looking at makes the difference, think about it. :laugh:

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Hi mate, hows things?
Hello gentlemen, long time no see.

Little thing ???

Thats a hell of a big statment you've said there, in disguise.

I like your short comments Scrap they force people to either dismiss what your saying instantly (In which case hmmm hmmm hmm hm) :) or think deeper before acting.

What you've said here really is the key and the doorway to so much in regards to mental control of what your doing in the ring and the physical control of the opposition ' in close range' :
in regards to which hand they can reach you with (if any) /which hand 'or hands at the same moment' you can reach them with while choking them out of their own comfort zone or their fixed thoughts /stance or style .
/Power diversion/avasion.
Even switching in close without full shoulder commitment, just using foot placment first so your uncommitted until their reaction is felt and you can use their momentum of that reaction to finish them / the list goes on and on in all the combinations of all of the above mentioned just on thinking about ,then acting on what you said in depth. cc

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Originally Posted by Grand

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Originally Posted by ThomasTabin

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Originally Posted by Grand

In my own humble opinion ;).. i beleive the right hand should be held on your cheek just under your eye as to protect you from left hooks and also acts as a parry. it can easily be held up to cover teh side of yoru head from hooks and brought down to parry the jab :) and your left hand should be held out infront of you not touching your face ( it acts as a block ;) ) so you can just see over the glove aswell. notice if you bring your elbow out your hand lowers hence leavign a bigger target. the reason you dont hold your jab hand really close to yoru face is cause this gives your jab less distance to reach your opponent then if you had it touching your face. also when your opponent throws a punch you can just block it rather than holding your hands against your face and let him hit you that way ( i find it still hurts the face even if yoru hands are there ). i beleive your body should be facing diagonally to your right ( or left if yoru a southpaw ) as to leaving not as much target as you would give your opponent facing him square on. but your head should be facing your opponent kind of tucked down into your shoulder. kind of like bernard hopkins.

all in my own opinion of course ;D

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I agree with everything you said there.

I once held my right hand up around my cheek for the same reasons. Like you say it allows you to parry the jab or block the left hook in least amount of time possible as the hand only needs to travel a couple inches for either maneuver. One problem I encountered with this tactic (and I imagine that you also have) was that to throw a right hand - a real right hand with full weight and leverage - I had to cock back my hand. I would have to do this because the right hand was not placed in a natural position to punch. Simply put; you can't punch from your cheek. Not with any real force anyway. The right hand naturally wants to be thrown with the hand at around chest level (right side) just under the neck.

That scares a lot of people to think about holding the right hand down there because they depend on blocking and not on slipping/rolling and controlling distance. The great irony of it is that by depending on blocking as your main means of defense you get you hit much more than you should. Slipping/rolling and controlling distance is the superior way to defend yourself from punches. Thus a proper stance would be one that best allows the body to slip/roll and control distance. I can't say that holding the hands up to the head does this.

I agree with your point about making the body a smaller target by standing 'diagonal'. This flows back the underpinnings of smart boxing in that you should show your opponent the least amount of targets to hit as possible. This way you can control where he will try to punch to with greater predictability. If you give him many options he will act unpredictably; if you give him only some options you take away the bulk of his punches and leave him in a predictable state.

Anyhow thanks for the response Grand. Its obvious to me that you approach boxing in very well thought out way.

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You raise good points which i never even thought of before! ;D
I been thinkign about what you said for a few days and it does make sense! the arm does naturally want to be thrown from beneath your chin but like you said this dos leave yoru face open. the slipping and rolling thing makes sense aswell if you can perfect it ;) i think the slipping and rolling tactic can be very hard to perfect but when done so it would be very effective. if your like me and have not perfected it ;D then you tend to eat alot of glove
well thank YOU for the reply ;) made me think about it a bit more

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yeah you definitely would eat lots of glove. You would need to drop your left hand and use your shoulder to block the right hand. With the left hand low and the right hand at chest level you will notice that your upper body can move more freely. Your arms are not bolted to your body like a robot and you can bend at the waist to get under or away from punches with greater ease. Because your gloves are not around your face they don't obstruct your vision in any way. This kind of defense depends less on taking the punches on the arms and gloves and more on seeing them coming and slipping just enough to avoid it entirely. Something will see Floyd Mayweather do tonight against De la Hoya.

Through things like shadow boxing you can get a feel of this style with your body and in time it becomes very instinctive. It very well should be since this stance is a natural position for the body. You will notice this in your arms; they won't get heavy and tire you out because you don't have to hold them up all the time. Many people like to say this style is only for the super quick or slick but thats all bull. Like grey used to say its not some boxing magic. Up until the late 1940's it was the standard way to box.

But I wouldn't recommend this style unless you really know the in and outs of it like you say. It can be extremely effective but the slightest miscalculations can get you clipped. The trainers out there are pretty ignorant when it comes to this so you won't get much out of them trying to learn it. I say watch some tapes and good luck if you're thinking about trying it.