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Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
As the fighters that first made me into the boxing fan I am today begin to pass the torch to fighters like PBF, Cotto, JC, Miranda, Williams and possibly Berto. I would like to start this thread as a way of remembering the greats of the last era.
I remember there use to be alot of debate on this some years ago and these debates still continue. I want to know your opinion on it saddoboxing forum.
To me it comes down to five fighters..(Please feel free to add more if you think he belongs in this list)
Oscar de la Hoya
Bernard Hopkins
Shane Mously
Felix Trinidad
Ronald Wright
Each of these guys was at one point #1P4P. Who was the best?
Who had the best all around reccord with regards to quality of opposition (at the time they faught) and performance?
If they were all on their prime and put in a tournament together who would win at 147, who would win at 154 and who would win at 160.
And finally, who was your favorite and why?
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Tito @ 147.
Wright @ 154.
B-Hop @ 160.
And yes, I do realize that most people are of the INCORRECT opinion that DeLa beat Tito @ 147.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Roy Jones ??
Nah just realized he fought Toney at Supermiddleweight :(
But overall Jones would beat anyone at Middleweight in 90s quite easily imo.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Overall... I gotta go with old man hopkins
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Around the time..Im gona list a couple for each since most fought eachother to decide the best but there were a couple big names each division..
147 : 1999 Trinidad and Oscar In 2000 oscar lost to mosely and beat gatti only fighting twice that year so i would have mosely as best in 2000
154: I would have Fernando ruling 99 having beat quartey and winky and bieng undefeated..
And i would have tito riegning best in 2000
160: Probably hopkins..But thats a bit of a bad one since there wasnt loads of great fighters at 160 at the time and hopkins didnt prove himself until 2001 against holmes, tito etc..
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Around the time..Im gona list a couple for each since most fought eachother to decide the best but there were a couple big names each division..
147 : 1999 Trinidad and Oscar In 2000 oscar lost to mosely and beat gatti only fighting twice that year so i would have mosely as best in 2000
154: I would have Fernando ruling 99 having beat quartey and winky and bieng undefeated..
And i would have tito riegning best in 2000
160: Probably hopkins..But thats a bit of a bad one since there wasnt loads of great fighters at 160 at the time and hopkins didnt prove himself until 2001 against holmes, tito etc..
Winky beat Vargas IMO......B-HOP at 160.....SSM at 147....
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
147: Shane Mosley/De la Hoya (IMO they split their fights)
154: De la Hoya/Trinidad (IMO ODH won the fight but Tito did very well there)
160: Bernard Hopkins: no doubt in this one
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Around the time..Im gona list a couple for each since most fought eachother to decide the best but there were a couple big names each division..
147 : 1999 Trinidad and Oscar In 2000 oscar lost to mosely and beat gatti only fighting twice that year so i would have mosely as best in 2000
154: I would have Fernando ruling 99 having beat quartey and winky and bieng undefeated..
And i would have tito riegning best in 2000
160: Probably hopkins..But thats a bit of a bad one since there wasnt loads of great fighters at 160 at the time and hopkins didnt prove himself until 2001 against holmes, tito etc..
Winky beat Vargas IMO......B-HOP at 160.....SSM at 147....
No doubt winky won the fight..But going on fernando getting the win is why i said vargas
Peace
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Around the time..Im gona list a couple for each since most fought eachother to decide the best but there were a couple big names each division..
147 : 1999 Trinidad and Oscar In 2000 oscar lost to mosely and beat gatti only fighting twice that year so i would have mosely as best in 2000
154: I would have Fernando ruling 99 having beat quartey and winky and bieng undefeated..
And i would have tito riegning best in 2000
160: Probably hopkins..But thats a bit of a bad one since there wasnt loads of great fighters at 160 at the time and hopkins didnt prove himself until 2001 against holmes, tito etc..
Winky beat Vargas IMO......B-HOP at 160.....SSM at 147....
No doubt winky won the fight..But going on fernando getting the win is why i said vargas
Peace
understand bro...that's what counts..the "W"....
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Around the time..Im gona list a couple for each since most fought eachother to decide the best but there were a couple big names each division..
147 : 1999 Trinidad and Oscar In 2000 oscar lost to mosely and beat gatti only fighting twice that year so i would have mosely as best in 2000
154: I would have Fernando ruling 99 having beat quartey and winky and bieng undefeated..
And i would have tito riegning best in 2000
160: Probably hopkins..But thats a bit of a bad one since there wasnt loads of great fighters at 160 at the time and hopkins didnt prove himself until 2001 against holmes, tito etc..
Winky beat Vargas IMO......B-HOP at 160.....SSM at 147....
No doubt winky won the fight..But going on fernando getting the win is why i said vargas
Peace
understand bro...that's what counts..the "W"....
It'd do for me if i was vargas :) :P
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
My favorite was always Tito. His fights were never a disapointment during his reign as champion.
I also think his reccord is great, he did have a lot of bumbs but he also beat good fighters when they were still undefeated.
I wish Tito would have faught Mously at some point. That would have been a great one. Before the Forrest fights, a lot of people said Mously would beat him easilly. I think now the opinion is different.
If we consider the fight with DLH a draw, then compare their reccord at 147, 154 ans 160 and we see Tito being a little more impressive.
DLH does have the better accomplishments with all the belts at different weight classes though.
My pics...
147 Tito
154 Wright (This one is hard, I think Tito was great at this weight but with only 3 fights to judge...)
160 B-Hop
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
147 - Mosley, blinding speed and power.
154 - Winky, I dont see how it could be anyone else, he schools almost anyone at this weight.
160 - As much as I want to say Winky, it has to be B-Hop, rarely has a division been dominated as Hopkins did.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
1. Winky: Beats Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, ODLH, and maybe even Hopkins prime for prime. He beat Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley twice, Jermain Taylor, and a whole slew of good or great fighters.
2. B-Hop: He only gets the edge prime for prime over Winky due to size. However I still say he beats the rest, and he was a true fundamentalist of the sport even though he is a little more unorthodox than people give him credit for... I've hardly ever seen a guy catch somebody like he did Tarver so many times looking at the ground.
3. ODLH. went 1-1 against Mosey, Beat Trinidad, fought Chavez and Whitaker, Beat Vargas more impressively IMO than Trinidad, IMO squeezed by Quartey, Gave Hopkins a good fight at middleweight until the size differential kicked in.
4. Trinidad: hard puncher, proven he couldn't beat the very best, but looked more impressive than them against quality opponents.
6. Mosley: Godly fast, and amazingly powerful for his size, but he wasn't all that great at 147 and up... Without his overwhelming power like he had at 135 he wasn't the best boxer, and he had the Meldrick Taylor complex where he always has to bang with the opponent even when its failed him.
Ike Quartey: amazing fighter who was the only one I've seen to truly hurt Oscar, and he knocked him down first. But his fight with Vargas puts him behind Mosley.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
I have to admit that even though Tito is my favorite, as I said before, I don't think he was the very best of the 5.
To me that honer goes to B-Hop for his long reign as a MW champion and IMHO the only man who can say he beat Tito in his prime, if not in his best weight class. It is a real shame RJJ never gave him a second chance and because he didn't I think in the end Hopkins will be considered greater than RJJ in the future.
I don't think it is fair to say DLH "beat" Tito. If anything the fight was a draw. Yes DLH outboxed him, but he couldn't do it consistently and he did not do enough to win. Considering that it was Tito who got the W, I think I am being generous in conceding a draw.
Wright has really been impressive lately. I would like to see how he does against B-Hop. It is too bad that he was recognized so late in his career. He might have established himself with a win against a prime DLH and a prime Tito if he had not dropped a decision against Vargas. Instead he ended up beating a blown up Mously, a passed his prime Tito and will fight a passed his prime B-Hop.
I would rank them like this:
1- B-Hop
2- Wright
3- Trinidad (a prime Tito would have given Wright a much tougher fight, but I don't think he would've won because of the styles)
4- DLH
5- Mously
Even with Mously's 2 wins over DLH, DLH did far more in his career. I think DLH made a mistake by trying to out speed Mously instead of trying to outbox him. However, both of these guys are still fighting and have a chance to modify their rankings....
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by Taeth
1. Winky: Beats Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, ODLH, and maybe even Hopkins prime for prime. He beat Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley twice, Jermain Taylor, and a whole slew of good or great fighters.
2. B-Hop: He only gets the edge prime for prime over Winky due to size. However I still say he beats the rest, and he was a true fundamentalist of the sport even though he is a little more unorthodox than people give him credit for... I've hardly ever seen a guy catch somebody like he did Tarver so many times looking at the ground.
3. ODLH. went 1-1 against Mosey, Beat Trinidad, fought Chavez and Whitaker, Beat Vargas more impressively IMO than Trinidad, IMO squeezed by Quartey, Gave Hopkins a good fight at middleweight until the size differential kicked in.
4. Trinidad: hard puncher, proven he couldn't beat the very best, but looked more impressive than them against quality opponents.
6. Mosley: Godly fast, and amazingly powerful for his size, but he wasn't all that great at 147 and up... Without his overwhelming power like he had at 135 he wasn't the best boxer, and he had the Meldrick Taylor complex where he always has to bang with the opponent even when its failed him.
Ike Quartey: amazing fighter who was the only one I've seen to truly hurt Oscar, and he knocked him down first. But his fight with Vargas puts him behind Mosley.
Tito could and did fight and beat the best!
And winky beat him at middleweight.. So that's not really sticking to the topic of best of the new millenium in the separate weight classes!
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by Taeth
4. Trinidad: hard puncher, proven he couldn't beat the very best, but looked more impressive than them against quality opponents.
Actually Trinidad beat OLDH, and OLDH made half of his legend beating up opponents Tito had already ruined. And he still didn't look as good as Tito doing it.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Trinidad had the best run in my opinion. Controversial or not he recieved the decision vs De La Hoya. He then went on to beat David Ried, Thiam, Vargas, Joppy all in back to back fights. That was the most impressive run out of any of the boxers at the time, I have to go with Tito on this one despite his over ambitious plans to conquer 160
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
Trinidad had the best run in my opinion. Controversial or not he recieved the decision vs De La Hoya. He then went on to beat David Ried, Thiam, Vargas, Joppy all in back to back fights. That was the most impressive run out of any of the boxers at the time, I have to go with Tito on this one despite his over ambitious plans to conquer 160
Actually his plan was even more ambitious. He wanted to chalange Roy Jones Jr after Hopkins. He most likely would've lost that fight but, man what an event that would've been.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
Trinidad had the best run in my opinion. Controversial or not he recieved the decision vs De La Hoya. He then went on to beat David Ried, Thiam, Vargas, Joppy all in back to back fights. That was the most impressive run out of any of the boxers at the time, I have to go with Tito on this one despite his over ambitious plans to conquer 160
Actually his plan was even more ambitious. He wanted to chalange Roy Jones Jr after Hopkins. He most likely would've lost that fight but, man what an event that would've been.
Trinidad is my second favorite fighter of all time behind Pernell Whitaker, I followed his career with an obsession and remember the plans he had. He set his goal to fight Roy Jones after he defeated David Ried. Everybody was skeptical about the plan until he destroyed Joppy at 160. Everybody thought Hopkins was going to be an easy warm up for the RJJ fight but Hopkins was simply to big and strong for Tito, he was not a true MW. But if victorious they were planning to hold the fight in Football stadium, that maybe would have sold more PPV's than the fight we have on saturday, Jones would have murdered him but it was a win win situation for Tito, Hopkins was not a win win for Tito in any stretch of the imagination, people still cruicify him for his loss to Hopkins till this day despite a huge size disadvantage.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Hopkins, Wright, Mosley, Forest, Oscar, & as much as I hate to say their names Tito & Vargas were all tip top back in the day.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by wacko3205
Hopkins, Wright, Mosley, Forest, Oscar, & as much as I hate to say their names Tito & Vargas were all tip top back in the day.
This list was accurate with the exception of Forrest, his greatness was shortlived, Mayorga ended his career as a big money fighter. Everybody else on this list enjoyed long periods of sucsess including Vargas who scored victories over Wright (Controversial) and Quartey, not including a fierce title defense against Tito where he came up short.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
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Originally Posted by Taeth
1. Winky: Beats Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, ODLH, and maybe even Hopkins prime for prime. He beat Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley twice, Jermain Taylor, and a whole slew of good or great fighters.
2. B-Hop: He only gets the edge prime for prime over Winky due to size. However I still say he beats the rest, and he was a true fundamentalist of the sport even though he is a little more unorthodox than people give him credit for... I've hardly ever seen a guy catch somebody like he did Tarver so many times looking at the ground.
3. ODLH. went 1-1 against Mosey, Beat Trinidad, fought Chavez and Whitaker, Beat Vargas more impressively IMO than Trinidad, IMO squeezed by Quartey, Gave Hopkins a good fight at middleweight until the size differential kicked in.
4. Trinidad: hard puncher, proven he couldn't beat the very best, but looked more impressive than them against quality opponents.
6. Mosley: Godly fast, and amazingly powerful for his size, but he wasn't all that great at 147 and up... Without his overwhelming power like he had at 135 he wasn't the best boxer, and he had the Meldrick Taylor complex where he always has to bang with the opponent even when its failed him.
Ike Quartey: amazing fighter who was the only one I've seen to truly hurt Oscar, and he knocked him down first. But his fight with Vargas puts him behind Mosley.
Tito could and did fight and beat the best!
And winky beat him at middleweight.. So that's not really sticking to the topic of best of the new millenium in the separate weight classes!
The best guy I saw Trinidad beat was Vargas... who alot of other guys beat as well. I didn't read the topic carefully enough... my bad I thought it was 90's and 2000's
In this case
Hopkins
ODLH/Mosley
Trinidad
rest
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
1. Winky: Beats Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, ODLH, and maybe even Hopkins prime for prime. He beat Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley twice, Jermain Taylor, and a whole slew of good or great fighters.
2. B-Hop: He only gets the edge prime for prime over Winky due to size. However I still say he beats the rest, and he was a true fundamentalist of the sport even though he is a little more unorthodox than people give him credit for... I've hardly ever seen a guy catch somebody like he did Tarver so many times looking at the ground.
3. ODLH. went 1-1 against Mosey, Beat Trinidad, fought Chavez and Whitaker, Beat Vargas more impressively IMO than Trinidad, IMO squeezed by Quartey, Gave Hopkins a good fight at middleweight until the size differential kicked in.
4. Trinidad: hard puncher, proven he couldn't beat the very best, but looked more impressive than them against quality opponents.
6. Mosley: Godly fast, and amazingly powerful for his size, but he wasn't all that great at 147 and up... Without his overwhelming power like he had at 135 he wasn't the best boxer, and he had the Meldrick Taylor complex where he always has to bang with the opponent even when its failed him.
Ike Quartey: amazing fighter who was the only one I've seen to truly hurt Oscar, and he knocked him down first. But his fight with Vargas puts him behind Mosley.
Tito could and did fight and beat the best!
And winky beat him at middleweight.. So that's not really sticking to the topic of best of the new millenium in the separate weight classes!
The best guy I saw Trinidad beat was Vargas... who alot of other guys beat as well. I didn't read the topic carefully enough... my bad I thought it was 90's and 2000's
In this case
Hopkins
ODLH/Mosley
Trinidad
rest
Hmm... So who was the best guy DLH officially beat?
About the topic. I should have been more specific I guess. I ment who was the best in general from around 97 to 2003 which is more or less when they were all in their primes amd fighting eachother.
I also asked who would win in a tournament at 147, 154 and 160. Not necessarilly who was the best at each weight class. For example if you believe Hopkins would win all three turnaments, that is a valid response even though Hopkins never faught lower than 160.
Lets talk about reccords for a wile though. Who do you think has the best all around quality of opposition.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
Officialy is bullshit, but he beat Whitaker officially at the lower weights, and so did Trinidad, but it was a different Whitaker. Also Oscar beats Vargas like Trinidad, He beat most of the same guys officially, but HE DID beat Trinidad... you can't win 9 rounds run 3 and lose the fight because you ran 3 rounds. I don't think he actually won 9 rounds but it was close. He also later beat Mosley IMO, and that of many. He beat Chavez. He didn't get his ass kicked as bad from Hopkins(though Hopkins wasn't as good as when he fought Trinidad).
At 147
I think it would be between Oscar and Mosley
at 154
Winky:Oscar
160
Bernard:Winky
I think Winky would still be up there but in terms of what he had done up to this point wasn't enough. Nobody even hardly knew who he was in the early 2000's.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
And nobody want to fight his poor ass
He is strong and a great boxer. who is more drama Queen JT or Winky?
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
During that time I go with Tito. Only reason he edges the others is simply because he made the most noise.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
i would say Shane was the best at this time.
Bhop might be the best but for some reason he just doesn't fit with that group of guys at that period. he kinda just stayed to himself at 160. winky was also good but not nearly as relevant at that time as the other fighters mention on the thread.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Officialy is bullshit, but he beat Whitaker officially at the lower weights, and so did Trinidad, but it was a different Whitaker. Also Oscar beats Vargas like Trinidad, He beat most of the same guys officially, but HE DID beat Trinidad... you can't win 9 rounds run 3 and lose the fight because you ran 3 rounds. I don't think he actually won 9 rounds but it was close. He also later beat Mosley IMO, and that of many. He beat Chavez. He didn't get his a** kicked as bad from Hopkins(though Hopkins wasn't as good as when he fought Trinidad).
At 147
I think it would be between Oscar and Mosley
at 154
Winky:Oscar
160
Bernard:Winky
I think Winky would still be up there but in terms of what he had done up to this point wasn't enough. Nobody even hardly knew who he was in the early 2000's.
Officially is bullshit??? I have a problem with this statement. Boxing, like we all know, is very different than other sports. The scoring is very much subjective to the people doing the scoring. Except for a knock down or point penalty there is no specific event for which you automatically get points. But, unless you want professional boxing to have same scoring as the armatures, which I think most would agree would be disastrous, this is in fact a good thing. Why? Because there is absolutely no way to quantify how much more damage one punch did versus another. However, we can't have one guy make such a subjective decision so it was decided to have three people decide. What they say is what goes. We may not agree with them, but those are the rules in this sport that we all love. Officially is what's in the reccord books and officially is not bullshit.
Unless of course you are suggesting foul play and that the judges were corrupted.
I'm sorry I don't think its fair to say that DLH beat Tito like if it was a fact any more than it is fair for me to say that Quartey or Sturm beat DLH. It is not a fact. It is a fact that many people do not agree with what you say. It is a fact that out of the three professional judges scoring the fight (4 if you count Ledderman) not one of them saw DLH win the fight.
Now if you say that you believe DLH is better than Tito because you believe that DLH did enough to win the fight then I respect your opinion and I am glad to hear what you think on the subject. All five mentioned are great fighters and I honestly believe that if they all fought eachother 10 times each one of them would win at least 3 or 4.
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Re: Who was the best from 147 to 160 in the late 90s early 2000
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
1. Winky: Beats Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, ODLH, and maybe even Hopkins prime for prime. He beat Trinidad, Quartey, Vargas, Mosley twice, Jermain Taylor, and a whole slew of good or great fighters.
2. B-Hop: He only gets the edge prime for prime over Winky due to size. However I still say he beats the rest, and he was a true fundamentalist of the sport even though he is a little more unorthodox than people give him credit for... I've hardly ever seen a guy catch somebody like he did Tarver so many times looking at the ground.
3. ODLH. went 1-1 against Mosey, Beat Trinidad, fought Chavez and Whitaker, Beat Vargas more impressively IMO than Trinidad, IMO squeezed by Quartey, Gave Hopkins a good fight at middleweight until the size differential kicked in.
4. Trinidad: hard puncher, proven he couldn't beat the very best, but looked more impressive than them against quality opponents.
6. Mosley: Godly fast, and amazingly powerful for his size, but he wasn't all that great at 147 and up... Without his overwhelming power like he had at 135 he wasn't the best boxer, and he had the Meldrick Taylor complex where he always has to bang with the opponent even when its failed him.
Ike Quartey: amazing fighter who was the only one I've seen to truly hurt Oscar, and he knocked him down first. But his fight with Vargas puts him behind Mosley.
Tito could and did fight and beat the best!
And winky beat him at middleweight.. So that's not really sticking to the topic of best of the new millenium in the separate weight classes!
The best guy I saw Trinidad beat was Vargas... who alot of other guys beat as well. I didn't read the topic carefully enough... my bad I thought it was 90's and 2000's
In this case
Hopkins
ODLH/Mosley
Trinidad
rest
Nahh..Lol
The best person you saw him beat was Oscar ..
In my opinion its like this..Oscar proves he was the better fighter..
Oscar is the better fighter of the two..But he did loose the fight..
Imo..Even though not good for the fans.. It worked for both fighters..Oscar was impressive..And my man won..So its good for me
