Why do so many people think Combinations are so important?

If you pot shot and land twelve punches or if you throw a combination and land twelve punches its still twelve punches. I think its equally hard if not harder to potshot an opponent is also quick because they eventually learn your cues and its easier for them to block one shot than ten. I think Mayweather could do combinations if he chose to, but as a light puncher it would stupid for him to do so. Roy JOnes Jr. at light heavy weight also learned it was more effective to go one shot at a time. GUys like Leonard could throw combinations, but he could also get outboxed by Hearns because he wasn't able to fight the one punch game, and had to resort to less skill oriented fighting to beat Tommy. I just find the combinations that Roy, Leonard, Robinson, and Meldrick Taylor threw would win points, sometimes be effective, but mostly would be meaningless punches that came so quickly and in such large numbers the opponent couldn't retaliate, but still the majority of the punches would miss. No economic fighter punches in combinations because it isn't economic in nature to do so.

Because you move your opponents guard with them

I couldnt disagree more. Combination punchers are very important.. In order to be effective against world class fighters you need that 3rd 4th and 5th punch in order to land anything.. A well skilled fighter can evade 1 or 2 punch at a time easy.. without this skill , you need to fight lower level opposition or carry a very heavy hand to have success. very important skill for in fighting.

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

I couldnt disagree more. Combination punchers are very important.. In order to be effective against world class fighters you need that 3rd 4th and 5th punch in order to land anything.. A well skilled fighter can evade 1 or 2 punch at a time easy.. without this skill , you need to fight lower level opposition or carry a very heavy hand to have success. very important skill for in fighting.

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Agreed if your leading with a snapping jab,it isnt just to land the jab.Its to tighten the guard in to that area,opening up crosses hooks and body shots.Or depending on how tight they get a nice uppercut.
Very few fighters are good enough to fight 1 and 2 punches at a time,and they generally set that up with far superior footwork

Because they are fun to watch. What was more fun. Watching they Mayweather DLH fight , or the Mickey ward Gatti fight.

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

I couldnt disagree more. Combination punchers are very important.. In order to be effective against world class fighters you need that 3rd 4th and 5th punch in order to land anything.. A well skilled fighter can evade 1 or 2 punch at a time easy.. without this skill , you need to fight lower level opposition or carry a very heavy hand to have success. very important skill for in fighting.

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I think it can be beneficial, but if your fast enough you don't need to throw combinations and open up an opponent. If you can do without you shouldn't be criticized for not using it.

its all about COMBOS baby! remember those pretzel things with cheese pizza fillings inside? lol jk

but naw on the reals its all about COMBOS RJJ in his prime put together some sick combos which landed CLEAN, EFFECTIVELY, FAST, and HARD!

SRL too very quick hands he even turned his combos into flurries.

Vitali Klitschko in his latest fights was putting together combos and RJJ as a commentator was even giving him props on his combos! ;D

I like Roy's combo's for sure, but SRL's seemed a bit over done, and weren't productive. I've always been able to get away without using combinations so I guess I don't value them as much as other fighters.

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

I couldnt disagree more. Combination punchers are very important.. In order to be effective against world class fighters you need that 3rd 4th and 5th punch in order to land anything.. A well skilled fighter can evade 1 or 2 punch at a time easy.. without this skill , you need to fight lower level opposition or carry a very heavy hand to have success. very important skill for in fighting.

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COMPLETELY agree.
BUT! In the context of this thread, I think what Taeth was getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong) is not the effectiveness of combinations themselves, but scoring-wise.
Assuming there's some way to measure effectiveness of punching, should ten potshot punches count less than ten landed punches in combinations of the same effectiveness?
I don't think anyone would disagree that combinations are important strategically. But concerning scoring, are they on equal par?

CC for understanding Meowza... I think that people look more kindly on a huge combination than one guy pot shotting for a whole round and hitting an opponent the same amount of times.

In theory it should count the same scoring wise but it doesnt work that way because you can land quitely 12 potshot punches and the judges will take some notice but will be less impressed than if you land a huge 8 or 10 punch combination. It is much harder to ignore a nice combination than it is to ignore a dozen potshots.

PBF could throw combo if he wanted. its just that your alittle more open to be hit when you throw combos. PBF is a defensives fighter. one or two shots at a time then right back on defensive.

plus PBF's single shot normal have a decent amount of power on them. those hooks and strainght right hands he throws aren't just week arm puches.

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Originally Posted by meowza

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Originally Posted by Lords Gym

I couldnt disagree more. Combination punchers are very important.. In order to be effective against world class fighters you need that 3rd 4th and 5th punch in order to land anything.. A well skilled fighter can evade 1 or 2 punch at a time easy.. without this skill , you need to fight lower level opposition or carry a very heavy hand to have success. very important skill for in fighting.

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COMPLETELY agree.
BUT! In the context of this thread, I think what Taeth was getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong) is not the effectiveness of combinations themselves, but scoring-wise.
Assuming there's some way to measure effectiveness of punching, should ten potshot punches count less than ten landed punches in combinations of the same effectiveness?
I don't think anyone would disagree that combinations are important strategically. But concerning scoring, are they on equal par?

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they do count the same.. the flashy combination catches the judges eye. usually thrown on the inside which is a positive , it shows you willing to risk losing to win. Meldrick Taylor was terrific in this area.. great fighter to watch. Pete Whitaker was a master at it also . So yeah I think there is something positive about throwing a lot of punches in round. keeps the fans excited as well.

I think a fighter showing the determination to be first, taking the risk to be first deserves a slight edge on the score cards. safety first is snuff.. if both fighters fought like that you wouldn’t have a match.. nothing sorrier from a fight fan perspective then watching 2 counter punches pose at each other all night , both too gun shy to be the first one out the gate.. .

I would much rather watch 2 skilled aggressive fighters work their craft inside the ring.

Watch Eddie Chambers fight and then you will know why.

Combinations set up other punches.....not everyone has the natural skill of Roy Jones Jr.

Watch Eddie Chambers????

here's a better example

Watch Mike Tyson from 1985-1990....then watch Mike Tyson 1990-2005!!!!

If you have less than average power, combinations are the only way you can hurt an opponent with any kind of chin. The receiver of the punch is much more likely to get hurt during the course of a flurry and from 6 separate individual counter punchers. The more 1 punch power you possess, the less you need to rely on counters.

As this relates to Floyd, I think most boxing fans, not just casual fans, but serious fans, too, think that KO's are somewhat important. Floyd can't KO top fighters with his pot-shot, 1 or 2 punch conservative attack. He can beat them, but he won't KO them. To me, if you don't hurt an opponent, you don't dominate him. You might beat him, but you don't dominate him. Floyd can dominate mid-level guys with that attack, but he can't dominate the upper echelon, because he won't take the risk of letting his hands go in combos, for better or worse. Maybe it's just smart.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Watch Eddie Chambers????

here's a better example

Watch Mike Tyson from 1985-1990....then watch Mike Tyson 1990-2005!!!!

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Mike Tyson had a lot more problems than just combinations... He wasn't using head movement was a bigger problem for him IMO.

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Originally Posted by SeanE

If you have less than average power, combinations are the only way you can hurt an opponent with any kind of chin. The receiver of the punch is much more likely to get hurt during the course of a flurry and from 6 separate individual counter punchers. The more 1 punch power you possess, the less you need to rely on counters.

As this relates to Floyd, I think most boxing fans, not just casual fans, but serious fans, too, think that KO's are somewhat important. Floyd can't KO top fighters with his pot-shot, 1 or 2 punch conservative attack. He can beat them, but he won't KO them. To me, if you don't hurt an opponent, you don't dominate him. You might beat him, but you don't dominate him. Floyd can dominate mid-level guys with that attack, but he can't dominate the upper echelon, because he won't take the risk of letting his hands go in combos, for better or worse. Maybe it's just smart.

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Mayweather does use combinations when its open, and I think a boxer should if they can land every punch, but I see guys just flailing away it looks sloppy, and doesn't impress me at all. In Leonard-Duran I sometimes Leoanrd would throw the most useless combinations and I would be like WTF just box on the outside or set into each punch a little more. I have no problem with sharp crisp combinations like Mayweather throws or Roy Jones Jr. or prime Mike Tyson, but I am talking about shoe shining which Meldrick and Leonard tended to do a lot, and I hate it.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

a lot more problems than just combinations... He wasn't using head movement was a bigger problem for him IMO.

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Yes but when he was older he wasted all his energy winding up on 1 big punch at a time but he still had the handspeed to SCORE he just didn't use it....and therefore fights that would once be easy for him became very difficult and he ended up losing to Williams and McBride because of it.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by SeanE

If you have less than average power, combinations are the only way you can hurt an opponent with any kind of chin. The receiver of the punch is much more likely to get hurt during the course of a flurry and from 6 separate individual counter punchers. The more 1 punch power you possess, the less you need to rely on counters.

As this relates to Floyd, I think most boxing fans, not just casual fans, but serious fans, too, think that KO's are somewhat important. Floyd can't KO top fighters with his pot-shot, 1 or 2 punch conservative attack. He can beat them, but he won't KO them. To me, if you don't hurt an opponent, you don't dominate him. You might beat him, but you don't dominate him. Floyd can dominate mid-level guys with that attack, but he can't dominate the upper echelon, because he won't take the risk of letting his hands go in combos, for better or worse. Maybe it's just smart.

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Mayweather does use combinations when its open, and I think a boxer should if they can land every punch, but I see guys just flailing away it looks sloppy, and doesn't impress me at all. In Leonard-Duran I sometimes Leoanrd would throw the most useless combinations and I would be like WTF just box on the outside or set into each punch a little more. I have no problem with sharp crisp combinations like Mayweather throws or Roy Jones Jr. or prime Mike Tyson, but I am talking about shoe shining which Meldrick and Leonard tended to do a lot, and I hate it.

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I hate shoeshine combinations, too, but not every punch needs to land for a combo to be effective. Let's take the basic 1,2,3. Say the jab gets parried and the right gets slipped, but the hook hits right on the button. It's a pretty successful combo, no?

The fact is that a combination of punches can only be dealt with y a huge counter, or more combination punches that are better, by by waiting for the guy throwing a combo to get tired and hit them back with something more impressive. Punches in bunches win fights, thats simple. Calzaghe crushed Lacy with repeated combo's of 6, 7 even 15-16 punches, if your throwing so many punches that all land, you CANNOT lose, combo's look so much more impressive than the odd pot shot every now and then, its so much easier, even when I used to spar its just so easy to sit tight and throw the odd one. Combo punchers seem more determined to win, its almost subconscious. It's the difference between PBF and SRL. Thats why people love Ray Leonard so much.

It's better to have the ability to throw good combos than not. If you're really good at it you're opponent wont be able to adjust to your timing and if he does, throw in some feints.

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Originally Posted by yoitsdan

The fact is that a combination of punches can only be dealt with y a huge counter, or more combination punches that are better, by by waiting for the guy throwing a combo to get tired and hit them back with something more impressive. Punches in bunches win fights, thats simple. Calzaghe crushed Lacy with repeated combo's of 6, 7 even 15-16 punches, if your throwing so many punches that all land, you CANNOT lose, combo's look so much more impressive than the odd pot shot every now and then, its so much easier, even when I used to spar its just so easy to sit tight and throw the odd one. Combo punchers seem more determined to win, its almost subconscious. It's the difference between PBF and SRL. Thats why people love Ray Leonard so much.

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I love combination punching, but I have to agree with Taeth about Leonard. I always hated his meaningless, flashing pity-pat shoeshine. Calzaghe does some of it, too. You mention 15 punch combos against Lacy, well, sure, but lots of those were visually impressive, but not very damaging Same with Leonard v Hagler. On the other hand, he threw some pretty damaging 6 punch combos. Also, Leonard and Calzaghe are both very accurate puncher when they need to be.

Certain types of fighters, swarmers, don't need to punch accurately, if they can keep up pace and land enough shots with power to hurt there oponent. Although Oscar isn't normally a swarmer, he adopted some swarming tactics agains Floyd. For all of Oscar's misses last week, if he could have landed 1-2 CLEAN headshots per round, he probably would have won the fight, and he would have hurt Floyd. Against any other fighter with limited power, Oscars combo's would have created opening and he would have landed. At the same time, if Floyd had better 1 shot power, Oscar would have faced a KO by opening himself up with flurries.

Take a CC, Dan. Dan is 100% correct. Combo punchers seem harder working and fans like that. Judges, really, shouldn't be swayed, but they are. Just look at judge who went for Oscar. I've watched and rescored Leonard-Hagler a few time, and although I thought Hagler won, he left the door open by not throwing enough and by giving away early rounds. It's important to consider how your style and approach will play with the judges. For right or wrong, good or bad, they are a huge part of the sport.

Its hard to say this but as an example, Floyd Maywaether chose to pot-shot (as usual) as a way to keep a high regard to his defence.
Oscar didn't choose to pot shot but was (in the earlier stages of the fight at least) defensively tighter and much more the agressor.


Im saying this because at first i was thinking "well pot shotting means surely that the guy is punching more effectively and probably is taking less hits for it".

But thats not always the case.

I dunno ??? But just to answer the question...
Combinations are VERY important if you cant rely on much else. But thats about it.

Because you get hit with many punches over a short period of time and it can triple or quad the punishment if the combos are thrown crisply. Also, it can make afighter lose focus and set him up for a shot down the middle.