I would probably have PBF top 20 and Oscar top 30 :-\
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I would probably have PBF top 20 and Oscar top 30 :-\
Firmly behind Butterbean, who is truly the greatest P4P boxer of all time.
same as meQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I really don't think Oscar belongs anywhere in the top 50. of all time? seriously? he's not even top 5 of his generation. Floyd, Winky, B-Hop, RJJ, and James Toney are all better than Oscar.
I Like Oscar early in his career, he has lost all of his super fights and can no longer be considered to be a top 20 all time fighter. Shit happens as they say and if you keep losing to the big names, admirable that it is that you are fighting them, then you have to win a few of these superfights to be considered an all time great. Oscar has won a lot of titles but has failed to beat the top fighters in their prime!
Floyd still has something to prove and needs to deal with the 147lb division and beat Cotto and Hatton.
Mosley won't prove much if he fights him, he is 35. They might as well bring back Tszyu!
Floyd will end up in the top 20 for sure, just not yet!
I refuse to answer these questions on the grounds that I might incriminate myself.
:-X
I dunno, I thought he did ok in 'Super fights'Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Defintately beat Vargas
Definitely beat Tito
Definitely beat Whitaker
Definitely beat Chavez
Definitely beat Mosely (2nd fight)
+ He is the only guy out there who has ducked nobody!!!!
which is why I have him in my top 25.....I easily have PBF in my top 10.....2 or 3 more quality wins and he goes up to my top 5...Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
floyd is top ten top five if he goes back and beats shane, cotto, and margarito
if de la hoya beat tito and sweet-pea, then he lost to quartey, sturm, mosely twice,Quote:
Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
it hard to rate oscar because he's never beaten a prime A+ fighter so...whatever
Honestly..Oscar at least top 20..
Floyd.. Although he doesnt have the greatest of competition in his era.. Depending on how you look at it..
He probably could have beaten most fighters in history.. ???
Top five maybe? ..Top ten definately
Shiza, once again you are spot on. I'd have PBF in my top 30-35 right now, but ODLY nowhere to be seen. He has mucked up his legacy in his last 5 fights. If PBF beat SSM and one other like opponent, he moves up fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Floyd-Top 10 (on my list at exactly 10)
Oscar-Between 20-30
It's true he has never ducked anyone and took fights he didn't really have to take, lost a couple of close ones (poor decisions) but at the end of the day has a big L next to those big name fighters on his record.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
I say he beat Tito - beat Whitaker (by virtue of winning the last round ;)) Beat Mosely in the 2nd fight (So clearly that even Shane knew it!!) Lost to Quartey, lost to Sturm ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
I have no allegiance to Oscar, I just have respect to him for being the only fighter of his generation who ducked NOBODY.
Why are you even saying that? We all know he ducked Winky Wright. ??? Just as clearly as we all know Winky would have beaten Oscar if Oscar hadn't ducked him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ALL TIME??
Does everyone realize how long "All time" is?? It's... well... ALL TIME!
I didn't see a time frame in the thread, so I'm just assuming all time.
Modern day in the last 20 years or so, definitely throw him in that list.
But if we're talking all time, Oscar is barely a blip on the p4p list.
I have nothing against Oscar and I love that he fights everyone out there.
But I'm talking ALL TIME.
If you have Oscar in your top30 all time p4p, consider some names of the last... well... all time number of years...
SRR
Ali
Armstrong
Sweet Pea
Greb
RJJ
Duran
SRL
Arguello
JCC
Ezzard Charles
Willie Pep
Marciano
Louis
Tunney
Benny Leonard
Hagler
Archie Moore
PBF
Holyfield
Hearns
Hopkins
Jimmy Wilde
Benitez
Langford
Fitzsimmons
Attel
Jersey Joe
Dempsey
Jack Johnson
That's just 30 off the top of my head. I'm sure there are at least 20 obvious names I forgot.
Can you really put Oscar ahead of these guys in an all-time prime p4p list?
I think it'd be a stretch to include Oscar even on a top50 all time list.
Floyd top 10 of all time,that is some kind of sick joke right? May be talent wise but taking into account opposition too,NO WAY is he top 10 of all time.
Meowza,who is Attel?
The rest, I'll give ya, but...James Toney is better than Oscar? You must be taking the piss?Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/attell.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Looking for a better link...
Yea about right Big H round about where i have em.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I think most on this forum will agree that James Toney is indeed much better than Oscar. James Toney at 160-200 was easily one of the top 5 of his generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by bzkfn
I have PBF among the best... Fuck competition. He has the skills and the speed to have given anyone in history p4p a fight, and I think beats almost everyone. Mayweather is naturally 130-135 imagine if he was naturally a welterweight like Robinson or Leonard I think he would give them the fight of their lives as is, but if he was their weight like he was when he was 130 he would beat either one.
PBF top 20. haha
You guys are such novices to the sport.
Oscar top 30, hahaha.
This is just plain... stupidity at work.
I dont think oscar deserves to be in the top 30 of all time nd neither does mayweather yet but if ur talking p4p boxing abilty then i think floyd nd rjj would be in my top 15 but they just never fort as gd opposition as many of the other so they cant claim to of beaten great fighters well i suppose rjj beat a green hopkins nd james toney but getting dominated by tarver aint done him to many favours.
The mere fact you get so bothered at how people you will never meet rank fighters just goes to show how pathetic your life really is. I pity you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrokai
Comming from you, who probably has people you've never even seen box in the top 10 and 20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrokai
Big CC to you... It's so easy to say names like Langford, Greb, Fitsimmons, Wilde, or whoever else you want should be ranked far higher than say Floyd... But I have no idea where they actually stood compared to him in terms of ability... It should be about who was actually the better fighter based on their performances in the ring.. Not names on their record when the majority of even the most hardcore fans haven't in fact seen the fights.. I think people put WAY too much weight on achievements in p4p rankings... The fact that you would find names like Dempsey, Marciano, or Joe louis on many lists is testament to this imo... There is no way one of those 3 could have beat even Oscar in a p4p sense, let alone Mayweather.. The funny thing is not one of those guys even achieved as much as DLH or Floyd in terms of world class fighters they beat..Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Why wouldn't they beat Oscar in P4P sense? Aren't they some of the hardest hitters ever P4P?Too many factors to take into account there.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
That is probably one of the worst fucking comments I have ever read on this site. Your nuthugging goes beyond believable,I mean everyone nuthugs once in a while but that's just shocking. So by showing his talent v Angel Manfredy,Brusseles etc he can take on SRR,SRL etc>? So Sven Ottke,forget who he fought,he didn't lose,he must be an all time great too because he must have alot of talent not lose!???Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I like PBF,his talent is ATG stuff but you have to take into account opposition when talking about ATG,because skills wise would be difficult. Whilst Floyd still ahs time to fight many more excellent fighters,at the moment,NO WAY is he in the TOP 10 ever! no way Top 10.
I've been looking for good footage of the all-time bests, and there is a little bit of Willie Pep, a little of prime Sugar Ray Robinson, but there isn't all that much of old school fighters in their prime. Half the guys people rate highly p4p are virtually impossible to find on tape. I mean I bet nobody on here has seen even ten prime Ray Robinson fights except maybe Ted, and nobody on here has seen ten prime Archie Moore, Hank/Henry Armstrong, etc, etc. What footage I've found has done nothing to inspire me to place Ray Robinson or any of those guys any higher htan Mayweather or Roy Jones Jr. It's a simple matter of people following a myth or lore, and blowing a fighter to more epic proportions than are actually valid. Ali and Joe Louis are probably the easiest to find of the old school days, and while Ali was very impressive I never found Joes Louis all that great. He was pretty slow, overrated puncher, and he fought 190 pound guys who are nothing like the heavyweights today or even in Ali's day.
Oh yeah, who did Henry Armstrong fight besides Robinson? You guys say Lamotta, Fulmer, all those guys were great fighters, but go ahead and watch them... They are slow, bad fighters. You guys nut hug Ray Robinson like there is no tomorrow. Even though he would often get hit by ridiculous punches by these bigger slower guys. I have no problem if he got out powered, but that wasn't the case. Ray Leonard I give respect to, but Mayweather just beat ODLH, and showed that he has way more skill than Dela Hoya, size was the only reason Dela Hoya even stood a chance.Are you comparing Sven Ottke to Floyd? Because if you are that is retarded. I judge fighters, unlike you, on what I see in the ring. You don't need the guy to face good competition to see if he was good or not, and Mayweather has foughten a lot better competition than people give him credit for. You can talk all the shit you want, but in reality you are far more blinded than me. I've seen Leonard's whole career, I've seen as many Robinson fights as there is available, I've seen all of Roy Jones Jr.'s fights, I've seen as many Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Ezzard Charles, Willie Pep, Joe Louis as I've been able to find. I'm not making blind assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
How can u say quality of opposition doesnt come into it bcos that is related to the perfomance for example floyd looked untouchable against gatti nd baldomir nd fort a tough fight against oscar so do u give him more credit for beating gatti than castillo?. Nd im not trying to put floyd down but im sure if most of the top rated p4p fighters only had 37 fight they also would have retired unbeaten so as ive said floyd needs to fight keep on fighting to cement his legacy. Ithink if floyd had fort mab em when he was at supper feather (im not trying say he ducked them as i think he had moved up ot lightweight a year b4 they moved up nd also i dont think he would have been ready for them 2 at that time) nd fights the likes of cotto, hatton mosely hed be right up there in the p4p rankings but thats my opinion.
I think Floyd definitely should continue to build upon his legacy, but as a fighter IMO because of his perfect technique, uncomprehensible speed, accuracy, great chin, that he is already way up there. He has passed every test put up, and he hasn't always foughten in the way easiest for him. I give Mayweather more credit for beating Castillo in the second fight than what he did against Gatti. I think Castillo is truly a very good fighter. He used very good head work, and cut off the ring very well... I think JCC would have given Pernell and Meldrick more problems if he had used the head work Castillo used against PBF.
P4P deals with ability right? I know you have to have some names on the resume, but P4P deals with more of the talent thing. Because Oscar has been beaten way better fighters over the course of the career, and on the all time list of the GREATEST fighters, rather then BEST fighters, I have Oscar higher then I do Floyd.
And another thing, Taeth, when you rate P4P, you rate other's against THEIR ERA. That's how it works with all these list because we all know that any top 10 featherweight of today would beat Pep because the sport has evolved such. So you rate it against their era, otherwise the P4P list would almost be exclusive to the last 30 years.
And Robinson was basically perfect, there are clips of him, and there are writers who you have to put great stock into. Because, in that remarkable run of 96 straight undefeated fights, like 5 of those were even recorded. So it's a two way street, you're underrating him basing him off of fights that you saw when he was past the point to where people rate him number 1 P4P.
Anyways, like I was beginning to say, P4P was a term created for Robinson because of his amazing talent and up to that point, not the highest profile opposition. So Oscar has great wins, much greater then Floyd's and just about every single other person in all of boxing, but Floyd has better skills. So on the P4P list, Floyd is going to be very high. I have him somewhere in the top 10.
But on the list of the greatest fighters of all time, which deals more with quality of opposition and longgevity, and things like that, obviously Oscar is going to be ranked high. When I made my last list I think I had him high at number 18 or something like that. Floyd probably is not top 20 yet.
But this is P4P.
All time Top 10 p4p
1) SRR
2) Peter McNeeley
3) Ali
4) Leonard
5) Ali, (Laila)
6) Tommy Morrison
7) Hector Camacho
8) Carl Weathers
9) Joe Rogan
10) Trevor Berbick
And one of my favorite fighters, the G-Man, gets honorable mention for all of his work with abused animals over the years.
:lickish: :lickish: :lickish:
That made me laugh, like out loud literally CC
I just saw Weathers, saturday! He's the greatest!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brockton Bomber
The best character of the Rocky series.
And when is someone going to make a list,top 30, here?
Anyone with knowledge here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brockton Bomber
the list would be perfect if you swapped weathers with laila
:sadclick: #100 Abrasive one... Dont you have a comic book to read junior?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrokai
Right now, Floyd is just entering the Top 50. If he were to impressively clean out 147 over the next few years, then he could make the Top 20.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Oscar..... he's Top 75, nothing more. Oscar's legacy is that he fought the best, his legacy isn't as an all-time great.
:goodpost: :coolclick: :clap: :appl: :beerchug: :band: :bounce: :indian_chief: EXCELLENT TO HEAR FROM A MAYWEATHER FAN. Really is. Like I said,I've started to like Floyd recently,but defence aside(and his defence may very well be top 10 all time great) but as an overall fighter,taking into accuont his competition, top 20 of all time....NO WAY! Ditto for Oscar,who is known for his losses rather than his wins. Imagine someone like SRL at 147 right now,he would clean them out!!!! Ditto for Duran etc etc all the other ATG.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea