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The crowd for Taylor Spinks last night was terrible, Matt Skelton and Michael Sprott will attract a bigger crowd in the UK.
What is wrong with American fight fans, where are they?
Every UFC event is packed out, more and more boxing in the US the crowds seem average at best.
How can it be even possible that an undisputed world champ IN HIS OWN TOWN!! can't fill out an arena?
yeah that really bothered me too bro to be honest.
also what was sad is spinks apparently brought 1000 people from his hometown of st. louis into the arena last night. so imagine if he didnt do that how much smaller the crowd would be.
but i think those same 1000 people were booing too lol
I can confirm that Spinks seemed to have brought everybody from St.Louis with him, lol.
I would like to see boxing back in its prime like the early roy jones jr days, or even the young mike tyson days.
I think that boxing started dying when Holyfield beat tyson, nothing against holyfield but tyson was the america's favorite.
Also big shouts out to the Holyfield camp, especially EH JR. ;)
But I think that loss to holyfield sunk everyone because everyone love tyson even though he was a bad boy.
It has been dying for a while.
To many miss matche sin boxing are going on - who apart form a hardcore taylor/spinks fan was going to travel last night to watch it?
When champions start cleaning out their devisions the fans will take notice...
We arent chumps that would pay to watch that lame excuse of a match ;) I would have paid just to see the Pavlik Miranda fight, but Im way over in California. I actually think boxing is starting a revival here after such a long hiatus. Most PPV sales ever for the Oscar Vs. Floyd fight, that should say something. I am a bit ashamed that the crowd was so small for the real fight of the night. I think that alot of people dont go to live boxing now because they can sit home and get a better view watching PPV HBO or Showtime. Some of these ringside tickets are out of hand and I cant see from the cheap seats.
Nope...boxing sure as hell aint dying in the U.S.
I also think boxing's image in the US has become to 'old' for want of a better word. Seeing Lampley, Merchant, Buffer and Conner Jr all decked out in their tuxedo's and bow ties it's more like they are gearing up for a snooker tournament or something.
They need to lose the formality, bring in some young commentators and loosen up a bit imo.
The UFC is so relaxed compared to them, both in the style, language and nature of the discussions and it's just more appealing to a younger audience.
I know boxing purists may not like that but really the young fans of today are the PPV paying and ticket buying fans of the future and if they are not 'entertained' then they will not watch.
I really think boxing needs a huge shake up right now.
The best thing that could happen is if someone could start buying out the title belts in order to unify them into 1 or 2 belts, get some young fresh commentators with attitude and a real working knowledge of the sport (Rogan for example actually knows his MMA and connects with the fighters and the fans) and then to start using lighter gloves and extend title fights back to 15 rounds.
As it is boxing is just getting less interesting with every passing week. We have to wait a decade usually for the two best fighters in a division to fight each other and then if the judges or referee don't ruin it the fight will be an anticlimax anyway.
I just wish some multi millionaire advertising media mogul would take over and buy out the WBC, WBA and IBF etc and then unify them as one title.
There must be someone out there with a shitload of money who could save boxing, maybe we should all petition the Microsoft foundation to take over and turn boxing into a force once more :-\
Its still on TV a lot, is it as big as it used to be, clearly not but I don't know if its dying.
I don't mind MMA, it can be interesting at times, but I'm not sure why its gotten so huge. Watching them when there not actually boxing or kick boxing is god awful boring to me but I guess people like it.
Maybe people have just started to realize Taylor's boring as hell ???
I honestly don't think its about the actual sport, its entirely the way its presented. UFC is presented as young, hip and cool and it's more in tune with today's young fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
If you've ever watched the ULtimate Fighter, as a show it blows the Contender out of the water because it's more gritty, and real like any popular sport should be even though the fights themselves havn't been that good this series so far.
For a sport to be mainstream popular it has to appeal the working man and have all the hype and trash talk etc to make it worth gatherinig around with mates and watching in pubs or a load of mates in together in someones house.
Boxing has lost that. When I watch a fight or a football match with people I'm shouting and swearing at the screen as is everybody else.
The UFC embraces that kind of mentality and reinforces it. HBO and Showtime try to 'contain and restrain' boxing's natural naked aggression and working class grit.
I don't know if I'm making sense here but I know what I mean!
What are you talking about Bilbo, didnt you hear Larry Merchant say this fight was gonna be "krunk" lol, Merchant is always good for 1 good laugh per show ;) Merchant is the "hip" one on the show lol
i always say that boxing is very sick
look at odlh and pbf did that sell more than tyon and holyfield 2
i think if there ae the big names we remember from the 90s fans wll watch it
and the average person whould just like to see a big ko instead of it going the distance
and we just dont have a bigh ko or not alot of superstars
still boxing it is sick
haha :coolclick: that was funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
It is ironic that Larry is actually the most progressively minded out of all the commentators wanting a return of light weight gloves and the abolition of any kind scoring for defense. :P
yes---it needs another louis, marciano, ali or tyson 2 save it
lolollololloQuote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
cc. Hilarious post of the day
I'm with you, Wack-OQuote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
If boxing is dying in America then it's a suffering death for it's happening very slowly.
Boxing is a year around affair. Unlike football et al it has no "season." This means there will be ebbs and flows in it's fanbase.
UFC does like 9,000 seat venues tho, not 20,000Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I know what your saying but it's not really relevent. Boxing is supposed to be the premier combat sport in the world. But it's not any more. The UFC has out performed it in at least the last 3 years and last year totalled more PPV buys than boxing EVER has in a single year.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
That is a massive blow to boxing as a sport and it seems the response of both those involved in boxing and fans alike has largely been to bury their heads in the sand and just disregard MMA as a fad or as mindless violence.
The fact is though that MMA is MORE popular than boxing now. It won't be long before the top MMA fights will get near the 2 million PPV buys that Oscar and Floyd reached last month, but the difference is that the UFC has more big fights so will get to those figures more often.
It's every 5 years or so that a truly big fight comes along in boxing, in MMA the best fighters are fighting each other all the time.
Now with Pride and UFC both owned by the same company we are shortly going to see truly unified MMA rankings where the best fight the best.
If boxing doens't do something drastically at this point it will become the second sport I'm afraid.
I say that Boxing is to NFL football as MMA is to Arena football.
MMA and Arena are places for the lesser competitors to compete amongst themselves. The fans don't care who the athletes are as long as they see someone throw a pass or get punched in the nose.
Ha! I like that analogyQuote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
But it is still a little disheartening to see such a small crowd on a night where we had so many prospective future stars out there.
Witherspoon, Berto, Miranda, Pavlik... You'd hope more fans would wanna check these kids out.
But then again, Spinks in the main event isn't exactly a crowd packing style of fighter.
I'm pretty sure if this undercard were paired with something like JT - Calzaghe, or even JT - Miranda, the crowd would've been a lot better.
Mind you, I'm not blaming the poor turnout on Spinks entirely, but I'm just saying it's hard for the mainstream fan to pile into the stadium in droves over a Taylor - Spinks main event.
I don't think you can say that MMA is a place where lesser competitors compete. The level of MMA is very high because of the influx of wrestlers, Olympic Judo players, high level Jiujitsu fighters, and the like. It's a new sport, and an evolving sport, but I think it's a stretch to claim that MMA fighters are on a lesser plane than boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
The argument goes, "If they were so good, they'd be boxing."
Which makes perfect sense for a man like two time Olympic wrestler Dan Henderson... Because boxing and Greco are so similar.
MMA is a more compelling sport right now because there are only two major organizations (unless you count K-1 Heroes as the third), fans know who the fighters are, there is a growing understanding about the technical requirements of MMA, and for the most part the UFC and PRIDE put on good shows with compelling matchups.
I completely disagree with this. They are both totally different sports and appeal to totally different athletes. You can't say a world class wrestler or jutisu practictioner is only in that sport because they couldn't get into boxing it's just absurd.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
Thats like saying Bruce Lee only did karate because he wouldn't have been able to hack it as a featherweight boxer.
The potential skill set in MMA is actually much higher than boxing as their are so many different skill sets, techniques and fighting disciplines to master. Right now boxing has more depth of talent thanks largely to a 100 year head start but 20 years from now at the current rate of growth its entirely possible that MMA will be seen as the true martial art combat sport and boxing is seen as being too limited and restrictive with only punches allowed.
You can't say a world class wrestler or jutisu practictioner is only in that sport because they couldn't get into boxing it's just absurd.
Thats like saying Bruce Lee only did karate because he wouldn't have been able to hack it as a featherweight boxer. Bilbo
LOL Why do you think I keep my answers short and sweet? Some folks see the logical err but most are left scratching their heads and wondering what university I teach at.
I really blame it on the Judges and the promoters. The Judges should favor the aggresers in a close fight. The promoters should set up fight with these great up and comers. Kelly Pavlik is a perfect example or being a victim of that. Do think Haggler would have ducked Miranda and Pavlik. There would have been a fight. Taylor is another reason. If the greatest middle wieght in the world dosent have a belt or the greatest of promoters he may as well not box. Boxing should a system that decides this and the promoters should act more like agents than pimps.
I gave you some good Karma for you Gorilla and you Sal the butcher. I like what you guys had to say. I do belive that boxing isnt dying its just in a bit of a resession. You can do so little to improve it that will make it so much better.
+1 for the both of you.
Yeah so people who no one cared about to begin with now have a professional career......man I'm really happy guys can get paid to kick and roll around on the ground woooooo that's great.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPhelan
Boxing is for punchers and MMA is for women
:coolclick: Ya big Gorilla.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla
Totally agree & couldn't have said it better me-self.
When champions start cleaning out their devisions the fans will take notice...
[/quote]
Couldn't agree more!
Well it depends how you look at it. For me, its got very boring but still very much alive. Kinda like a 30 year relationship ;)
Us fanatics could never give in to UFC or other MMA's. We understand all sides of boxing and really and truthly can see some positives in a Spinks/ Taylor snoozefest.
But in regards to Mainstream appeal, no one can deny that since the mid-90's its been going down-down-down. A good example is the amount of coverage boxers get in the Papers and on the News.
Also value for money is now being questioned.
UFC NEVER EVER fails to excite. Boxing is always a gamble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
"just realised" ;D
The man is a disgrace to the fight game and the proof of that in in the fact that he can't even fill an Arena in his own backyard.
Thing that winds me up is that he does have great skills but is so scared to take a punch that he won't get involved.
Manny Steward summed it all up by what he said to 'No Intentions' just before the 12th ;)
He was disgusted and furious with him.
Taylor is a joke. :)
......you people forget that FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR. couldn't fill up Van Andel Arena, Grand Rapids, MI, USA (his hometown) in 2003.
Certain boxers, even ones that are great can't draw crowds......but let me ask you where the MMA Arturo Gatti is?
Where's the guy who is just an average blue collar fighter but can sell out pretty much any arena at anytime?
Thing is though mate,it's every fight now,one after the other of pure boredom.
He's the Champ and needs to start fighting like one.
Everyone on this post has made some pretty good points. I wouldn't mind seeing some younger commentators in boxing. Larry Merchant takes about 3 days to finish a sentence. As for promoters and things like that, I've thought for a while that someone ought to bring all of these belts and what not under one banner. Possible get the govt. involved? I don't know how to solve it but something has to change. One of you guys hit the nail on the head when you said that a huge fight comes along about every 5 years or so. There is so much potential for some great fights right now but everyone is scared of losing their "0". UFC fighters for the most part don't have a choice. You have to fight the best one out there if you're the champ. I think that's one of the reasons it's gaining so much popularity.
Randy Couture has lost more times than Gatti and has probably generated more PPV buys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think the big difference with MMA though is that they sell a show, a complete entertainment package whereas boxing just sells one fight and if that fight isn't up to scratch the card sucks.
Also, and I think shamelessly HBO charge more for the big fights than they do regular fights, a display of greed that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.
UFC PPV's are generally cheaper and virtually always offer far better value for money with usually 8 fights televised on one PPV contrasted with HBO's usual two.
It's not that the actuall fights are better in MMA, although the judging and reffing nearly always is, it's just they put together a far more entertaining show than the likes of HBO, Showtime etc.
Pride especially just rocked, nothing like it in boxing, the crazy commentator women, the flashing lights and pyrotecknics, the awesome victory music, the ticker tape and confetti rained down on the winners it's just a soooooooooooo much better spectacle than your usual HBO fare even for a big mega fight.
No one knows who the hell anyone is in boxing, except for the absolutely biggest fighters (DLH, Hopkins, etc.) and the Contender guys. The problem with the Contender fighters is they kind of disappear after the show. I didn't even know Stevie Forbes was fighting D. Hopkins until the day before when a friend said, "your local boy is fighting on the Marquez card"
I think the "Contender Challenge" might help with this, but thing that will ultimately determine the viability of boxing for the long term is one title-giving organization and a ranking system that works. Barring this pipe dream, encouraging fighters to unify titles would be great. I'm sick of big name fighters fighting meaningless matchups. Using Klitschko as an example, who the hell was Ray Austin to vie for his title?
Whatever any of you think about the UFC, the top ranked fighters generally fight the other top ranked fighters and the champion is always defending his title against game opponents. People know who the champions are, and at least a few of their challengers. Few people in MMA have inflated records. That's what is so exciting, there's generally only one or two fights on a given UFC card that reek of mismatch, but boxing is full of them.
I think boxing promoters would be wise to figure out ways to capture all the new fight fans that joined because of MMA. Mixed-event cards would be a good start. Partner up with the ring based MMA promotions (or if the UFC ever decides to get rid of that ridiculous cage) and put some 4 and 6 round fights on a card. Introduce MMA fans to boxing and pique their interest. Events like this are common in some of the leading kickboxing countries: Holland, Japan, and Brazil. I think it would be a good device to spread boxing in the States.
They are putting on a dual boxing MMA production in the summer I think. Gary Shaw is actively promoting MMA now with his Elite XC Destiny shows.Quote:
Originally Posted by MPhelan
I think certainly his productions will in the future combine MMA and boxing cards possibly.
But it must be pointed out that the UFC itself won't be wanting to support any HBO or Showtime cards, from a commerical point of view they are the enemy. And with Dana White and his team buying out Pride last month they have a virtual monoply on the MMA talent pool.
Honestly, and ironically it could be women's MMA that serves to support future boxing cards and that's not actually as bad as that sounds.
If anyone saw Gina Carrano fight on the Elite XC card a few months ago you will know it was probably the fight of the night.; Plus she's hot. Really really really hot in fact.
Putting her on a prefight boxing card would certainly be an 'attraction' if nothing else. I'd actually love to see some really fit MMA birds wrestle and ground and pound each other on the floor before we the boxers come out for the main event. Hell I'd even like to have them covered in foam, lol!
That's PPV not arenas sold out.....Arturo Gatti could do jumping jacks in Atlantic City and draw a bigger crowd than a Couture fightQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Yes but apart from De La Hoya Gatti can draw bigger crowds than virtually anybody. Some people just have a huge fanbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I'd say the natural successor to him in boxing will be John Duddy, hugely popular with American Irish for reasons that are frankly beyond me.
I'd say the natural successor to him in boxing will be John Duddy, hugely popular with American Irish for reasons that are frankly beyond me.
- Bilbo
I can tell you why my g/f likes John Duddy. "He has a sexy voice."
She is going to watch the Duddy fight on MSG tonight at 6:00pm. So, I agree with you 101% on this one, Bilbo. I think he will be a cash cow.
He's sold out Maddison Square garden fighting Antony Bonsante ( :o), he already IS a cash cow ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla