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I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
I do agree with that. But people were high of Miranda. Taylor has a better style to beat Pavlik with and wouldn't get hit as much as Miranda did. Taylor is also a better boxer. And Taylor would also do better because Pavlik will be coming to him.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
I was so mad at Taylor against Spinks... He used to be so much better comming forward, but he wasn't throwing anything, but the few times he did he landed. I know he may looked bad, but I still say Taylor should been able to take Spinks out.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
I think Spinks won. However I think Spinks would outbox a lot of people and make them look bad.
However Pavlik isn't the boxer that Spinks is. I think we agree on that
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
All together I really like Pavlik, But I think he needs about three more solid fights against solid world class contenders before a Taylor fight.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Starr
I think Spinks won. However I think Spinks would outbox a lot of people and make them look bad.
However Pavlik isn't the boxer that Spinks is. I think we agree on that
I thought Spinks won as well. This was different fight than the Mayweather vs. Oscar fight because Taylor wasn't using the defense, ring generalship or hitting SPinks anywhere near to as often as Mayweather was hitting Dela Hoya. Taylor could have walked in on light fisted Spinks and not even flinched.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Taeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
I think Spinks won. However I think Spinks would outbox a lot of people and make them look bad.
However Pavlik isn't the boxer that Spinks is. I think we agree on that
I thought Spinks won as well. This was different fight than the Mayweather vs. Oscar fight because Taylor wasn't using the defense, ring generalship or hitting SPinks anywhere near to as often as Mayweather was hitting Dela Hoya. Taylor could have walked in on light fisted Spinks and not even flinched.
Yeah. but I think Taylor's balance is a reason. With his bad balance Spinks' counters had him over the ring sometimes. And even though Spinks would never have hurt Taylor. With his balance if Taylor had pressed forward more and been countered more he may have ended up down on balance alone and it would have bene a worse night
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
People generally have better balance going forwards... He never used to have problems going forwards. He should have taken a little off the punches, and focused more on throwing more. This was one time where throwing combinations would have helped, and instead of focusing so much on catching Spinks with the jab he should have used it more like Hearns did against Leonard, and how Winky uses it to move the opponent in the direction he wants them to go.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Taeth
People generally have better balance going forwards... He never used to have problems going forwards. He should have taken a little off the punches, and focused more on throwing more. This was one time where throwing combinations would have helped, and instead of focusing so much on catching Spinks with the jab he should have used it more like Hearns did against Leonard, and how Winky uses it to move the opponent in the direction he wants them to go.
Thing is Jermain always has trouble with someone he cant stop or cant hit with his jab. His jab has turned from a power jab to a range finder. Maybe it has to do with opposition as well.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
If you ask me i think pavlik is moving up weight real soon, he looked more sluggish than in past fights. He definately has the size to move up. He's gotta make moves quick at middleweight, hes on borrowed time.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
You think Taylor beats him? You big silly goose. ;D
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Yeah i can see that. It seems Taylor would be more comfotable with his style and at 6"3' Pavlik will eventually need to move up.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Starr
I do agree with that. But people were high of Miranda. Taylor has a better style to beat Pavlik with and wouldn't get hit as much as Miranda did. Taylor is also a better boxer. And Taylor would also do better because Pavlik will be coming to him.
Totally disagree...it aint Taylor's style that's hurtin him...it's his heart.
Pavlik probably beats him on that alone. Taylor doesn't have the drive anymore to pound out a win against the lighter weights...how's he gonna work Pavlik over?
Don't say anything about Spinks being quick...sure I know he is...but Taylor gave that fight away. He coulda dropped Ouma too...but he let him off the hook.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda? Not likely. Agreed, Pavlik is not not fastest guy out there, but woulddn't call himn slow. I wouldn't call him physically limited. The guy is a 6'3" Middleweight with pretty good strength. He can move a little, and he can slip a little. I think he can defend when he wants to defend, but more often than not, he's more concerned with offense than defense. He's not a "take a 2 to give 1" guy. He's a "take 1 to give 3 or 4" guy.
I've been tempted to get on the Pavlik bandwagon for a while, but I've stayed off because I haven't been sold on his heart and chin. Until this week, he hasn't been in with someone who could test those parts of his makeup. Pavliks took a couple of shots that I thought would have floored him, but he keep going and pretty much dominated his man. Now that I have some good evidence that Pavlik has a championship quality chin, I'm jumping up on Wacko's Pavlik bandwagon. I think Taylor is in big trouble, whoever he fights next, be it Pavlik or Calzaghe.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
No. But he's gonna hit him more often and more precise. And that can make a difference as well. If Taylor stops trying to load up on two shots nowadays and goes back to throwing 90 jabs a fight he'll have something.
But Hopkins took his heart
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
No. But he's gonna hit him more often and more precise. And that can make a difference as well. If Taylor stops trying to load up on two shots nowadays and goes back to throwing 90 jabs a fight he'll have something.
But Hopkins took his heart
If Taylor pops his jab consistantly, he'll give himself a pretty good chance. I'll agree with you there. Maybe Hopkins did take his heart. I'm curious to find out what happens when Taylor gets hit by a guy with real power. That hasn't happened for a while.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
Uh... I didn't think Miranda hit Pavlik very hard. Miranda looked terrible, and seemed to have about 90% less pop than he usually does. I credit Pavlik's backing him up with a lot of that, but the fact remains that I didn't see Miranda landing anything hard or great in that fight. So Taylor probably would hit Pavlik harder.
Pavlik looks very sloppy (and slow) to me. It would be a fun fight to watch--a hell of a lot more fun than most of Taylor's recent fights--but I think he's at least a level down from Taylor technically, and I don't give him more than a puncher's chance. I'd rather see a Winky-Taylor rematch. Winky ought to be middleweight champion already.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Starr
I do agree with that. But people were high of Miranda. Taylor has a better style to beat Pavlik with and wouldn't get hit as much as Miranda did. Taylor is also a better boxer. And Taylor would also do better because Pavlik will be coming to him.
Wow Star We are on the same page
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
I agree. Despite, Pavlik's performance against Miranda, I would still make Taylor the slight favorite in a Taylor-Pavlik fight.
Let's hope we get to see that fight later this year.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
In fact A Pavlik fight would be best for Jermains career. I think he could beat Pavlik handily and especially that people are high off the miranda pavlik fight they will forget that Taylor lost to Spinks :)
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda? Not likely. Agreed, Pavlik is not not fastest guy out there, but wouldn't call him slow. I wouldn't call him physically limited. The guy is a 6'3" Middleweight with pretty good strength. He can move a little, and he can slip a little. I think he can defend when he wants to defend, but more often than not, he's more concerned with offense than defense. He's not a "take a 2 to give 1" guy. He's a "take 1 to give 3 or 4" guy.
I've been tempted to get on the Pavlik bandwagon for a while, but I've stayed off because I haven't been sold on his heart and chin. Until this week, he hasn't been in with someone who could test those parts of his makeup. Pavliks took a couple of shots that I thought would have floored him, but he keep going and pretty much dominated his man. Now that I have some good evidence that Pavlik has a championship quality chin, I'm jumping up on Wacko's Pavlik bandwagon. I think Taylor is in big trouble, whoever he fights next, be it Pavlik or Calzaghe.
Absolutely. +1 for ya. I believe Pavlik can beat Taylor and probally any one in the 160. I have been on the bandwagon since he was 19 and he knocked out Grady brewer.I'm from northeast Ohio so Kelly Pavlik is a pretty well known name here. I think he has the chin of a champ and the heart of one too. He is flat footed at times and doesn't do much foot work but he is never really off balance. He has a great short upper cut on the inside and he knows how to make separation so he can use his leverage. And we all can agree he has Awesome power at 160. +1 for you I like it
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
I agree with alot of what your saying... if Taylor does train and comes into that fight willing to work very hard he will win... if he come sinto it and not showing much heart i think he will get beaten pretty badly,.
Taylor has a nice jab, isn't easy to hit and has pretty good reflexes.. PAvilk isn't the hardest guy to hit either when he is coming forward... but talor would have to be 100% if he shows up like he didn't agaisnt spinks pavilk wins no questions about it IMO
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Pavlik style is made for taylor, but you never know, because Pavlik can really bang and ends the fight anytime.
On the other hand, all we saw was that Taylor has no chance agaisnt Joe Calzaghe
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
Uh... I didn't think Miranda hit Pavlik very hard. Miranda looked terrible, and seemed to have about 90% less pop than he usually does. I credit Pavlik's backing him up with a lot of that, but the fact remains that I didn't see Miranda landing anything hard or great in that fight. So Taylor probably would hit Pavlik harder.
Pavlik looks very sloppy (and slow) to me. It would be a fun fight to watch--a hell of a lot more fun than most of Taylor's recent fights--but I think he's at least a level down from Taylor technically, and I don't give him more than a puncher's chance. I'd rather see a Winky-Taylor rematch. Winky ought to be middleweight champion already.
I'm not sure he looks sloppy, he's just not afraid to get hit once in a while. I guess compared to guys like like Winky and PBF, he's sloppy, but I can't see JT as being much more skilled. I would give Jermaine an edge in defensive skill, but I think Pavlik's attack is a little more sophisticated. I think you are vastly underestimating Pavlik to give him only a punchers chance.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
I like the taller stronger Pavlik in this match . Taylor looked shit the other night , Taylor has slipped immensely showing very little determination factor
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Starr
I do agree with that. But people were high of Miranda. Taylor has a better style to beat Pavlik with and wouldn't get hit as much as Miranda did. Taylor is also a better boxer. And Taylor would also do better because Pavlik will be coming to him.
But is the fire still there?....after getting touched a few times is Taylor going to continue boxing or is he going to settle in and try to prove something?...that could spell disaster for Taylor...you know he wants to prove he's the real deal....I think Pavlik could get him to abandon boxing and make it a brawl...
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by THE Bigragu
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Originally Posted by Starr
I do agree with that. But people were high of Miranda. Taylor has a better style to beat Pavlik with and wouldn't get hit as much as Miranda did. Taylor is also a better boxer. And Taylor would also do better because Pavlik will be coming to him.
But is the fire still there?....after getting touched a few times is Taylor going to continue boxing or is he going to settle in and try to prove something?...that could spell disaster for Taylor...you know he wants to prove he's the real deal....I think Pavlik could get him to abandon boxing and make it a brawl...
The question is, was there fire ever there? back when he fought hopkins, he fought a guy who didn;t even start fighting untill the fourth or fifth round, and even then he would only fight for a minute of a round, that was taylor made for taylor (excuse the pun)
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Lords Gym
I like the taller stronger Pavlik in this match . Taylor looked S*** the other night , Taylor has slipped immensely showing very little determination factor
That is very true neither won of those guys fought like a champion.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
No. But he's gonna hit him more often and more precise. And that can make a difference as well. If Taylor stops trying to load up on two shots nowadays and goes back to throwing 90 jabs a fight he'll have something.
But Hopkins took his heart
If Taylor pops his jab consistantly, he'll give himself a pretty good chance. I'll agree with you there. Maybe Hopkins did take his heart. I'm curious to find out what happens when Taylor gets hit by a guy with real power. That hasn't happened for a while.
When did he ever fight a puncher?
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
how is pavlik physically limited. he wins by chin alone. tell me who would be able to stand up while getting hit by miranda like pavlik did? i dont even think taylor would have stayed up. taylor had no heart to show. he didnt even get aggressive by fighting a pillow puncher like spinks.. he could have easy walked spinks down. and taylor got buckled by spinks in the first round too...
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by josef4334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
how is pavlik physically limited. he wins by chin alone. tell me who would be able to stand up while getting hit by miranda like pavlik did? i dont even think taylor would have stayed up.
Miranda didn't hit Pavlik very hard in that fight. I didn't see Miranda land a single punch that he threw with more than 50% power. He only threw a couple bombs; for the most part, his power looked sapped (in large part due to the fact that he was going backwards and taking punishment from Pavlik the whole fight). I don't know if I'd call Pavlik "physically limited" necessarily, but he's undoubtedly far less athletic and technically skilled than Taylor. He just hits hard and has heart--which may be enough to get it done. But I doubt it. He's a B/B+ fighter.
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Originally Posted by josef4334
taylor got buckled by spinks in the first round too...
no he didn't. he got moved because he was off-balance. which is a problem--but not a chin problem.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Lucifer's Infection
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
No. But he's gonna hit him more often and more precise. And that can make a difference as well. If Taylor stops trying to load up on two shots nowadays and goes back to throwing 90 jabs a fight he'll have something.
But Hopkins took his heart
If Taylor pops his jab consistantly, he'll give himself a pretty good chance. I'll agree with you there. Maybe Hopkins did take his heart. I'm curious to find out what happens when Taylor gets hit by a guy with real power. That hasn't happened for a while.
When did he ever fight a puncher?
When did Pavlik ever fight a guy that's uses a jab?
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Im not sure who wins but fight by fight JT is looking like a dud , and at least Pavlik is exciting , are you listening mr Taylor !!!!!!!!!
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
IMO in time with a few more high quality fighters Kelly would be a good run for Taylors money....IMO Jermain just has too much experience that carried over from his amatuer days and Kelly would be out boxed
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
I would like to see how Taylor reacts when he gets hit by massive puncher like Pavlik Taylor hasn't fought a puncher yet Wright Hopkins Ouma Spinks all good boxers but not big punchers inafct i haven't seen Taylor ever fight a big puncher yet ?? unless im wrong.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
Uh... I didn't think Miranda hit Pavlik very hard. Miranda looked terrible, and seemed to have about 90% less pop than he usually does. I credit Pavlik's backing him up with a lot of that, but the fact remains that I didn't see Miranda landing anything hard or great in that fight. So Taylor probably would hit Pavlik harder.
Pavlik looks very sloppy (and slow) to me. It would be a fun fight to watch--a hell of a lot more fun than most of Taylor's recent fights--but I think he's at least a level down from Taylor technically, and I don't give him more than a puncher's chance. I'd rather see a Winky-Taylor rematch. Winky ought to be middleweight champion already.
90 percent less pop wtf where do you get these percentages from because thats nonsense he hit Pavlik with very hard straight rights but he walked right through them and Miranda must of thought wtf then he had no plan b and got busted up.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
I would like to see how Taylor reacts when he gets hit by massive puncher like Pavlik Taylor hasn't fought a puncher yet Wright Hopkins Ouma Spinks all good boxers but not big punchers inafct i haven't seen Taylor ever fight a big puncher yet ?? unless im wrong.
He hasnt ! Joppy couldnt bang either
It would be interesting to still se him fight Miranda but Pavlik first . Kelly doesnt have to brawl like he did on Sat , that was a style used specifically for Miranda , he may use his height abit more vs Taylor . He was abit crude and at times reminded me of Carlos Maussa the way he just came forward wrecklessly . He walked onto Mirandas shots which effectively doubled the impact but he absorbed them all which tells me Taylors guna have trouble making a dent in him .
Taylor however fights to the level of his competetion and seems always to do just enough to win . If Kelly makes him fight we may see Jermain come out of his shell and display some of the talent we know is hidden in there . The mistake Winky made vs Taylor was being too aggressive . I wonder if Pavlik would make the same mistake .
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
I would like to see how Taylor reacts when he gets hit by massive puncher like Pavlik Taylor hasn't fought a puncher yet Wright Hopkins Ouma Spinks all good boxers but not big punchers inafct i haven't seen Taylor ever fight a big puncher yet ?? unless im wrong.
He hasnt ! Joppy couldnt bang either
It would be interesting to still se him fight Miranda but Pavlik first . Kelly doesnt have to brawl like he did on Sat , that was a style used specifically for Miranda , he may use his height abit more vs Taylor . He was abit crude and at times reminded me of Carlos Maussa the way he just came forward wrecklessly . He walked onto Mirandas shots which effectively doubled the impact but he absorbed them all which tells me Taylors guna have trouble making a dent in him .
Taylor however fights to the level of his competetion and seems always to do just enough to win . If Kelly makes him fight we may see Jermain come out of his shell and display some of the talent we know is hidden in there . The mistake Winky made vs Taylor was being too aggressive . I wonder if Pavlik would make the same mistake .
Agreed but difference is when Winky was aggressive he didn't really hurt Taylor because Winky lets be fair hasn't cracked an egg in ages a superb fighter no doubt but he is nowhere near being a puncher Pavlik could be aggressive and test that chin of Taylors because imo Taylors chin hasn't been tested yet by a huge puncher like Pavlik.
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I still think Taylor beats him... Not way Miranda would catch Taylor with the punches he hit Pavlik with. I liked Pavlik's style, but he seemed to be physically limited, and pretty slow.
I would like to see how Taylor reacts when he gets hit by massive puncher like Pavlik Taylor hasn't fought a puncher yet Wright Hopkins Ouma Spinks all good boxers but not big punchers inafct i haven't seen Taylor ever fight a big puncher yet ?? unless im wrong.
He hasnt ! Joppy couldnt bang either
It would be interesting to still se him fight Miranda but Pavlik first . Kelly doesnt have to brawl like he did on Sat , that was a style used specifically for Miranda , he may use his height abit more vs Taylor . He was abit crude and at times reminded me of Carlos Maussa the way he just came forward wrecklessly . He walked onto Mirandas shots which effectively doubled the impact but he absorbed them all which tells me Taylors guna have trouble making a dent in him .
Taylor however fights to the level of his competetion and seems always to do just enough to win . If Kelly makes him fight we may see Jermain come out of his shell and display some of the talent we know is hidden in there . The mistake Winky made vs Taylor was being too aggressive . I wonder if Pavlik would make the same mistake .
Agreed but difference is when Winky was aggressive he didn't really hurt Taylor because Winky lets be fair hasn't cracked an egg in ages a superb fighter no doubt but he is nowhere near being a puncher Pavlik could be aggressive and test that chin of Taylors because imo Taylors chin hasn't been tested yet by a huge puncher like Pavlik.
You are right but i'd make the suggestion that Wright is more accurate with his punches and may have an edge in speed also .
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Re: I still say Taylor beats Pavlik
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Originally Posted by Starr
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Originally Posted by Lucifer's Infection
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Originally Posted by SeanE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanE
Is Taylor going to hit Pavlik harder than he got hit by Miranda?
No. But he's gonna hit him more often and more precise. And that can make a difference as well. If Taylor stops trying to load up on two shots nowadays and goes back to throwing 90 jabs a fight he'll have something.
But Hopkins took his heart
If Taylor pops his jab consistantly, he'll give himself a pretty good chance. I'll agree with you there. Maybe Hopkins did take his heart. I'm curious to find out what happens when Taylor gets hit by a guy with real power. That hasn't happened for a while.
When did he ever fight a puncher?
When did Pavlik ever fight a guy that's uses a jab?
Are you implying that Taylor uses a jab? :o
I've already said that if Taylor reverts back to his old form and pops his jab consistantly, he will give himself a very good chance. I won't deny it. I'm just not sure that JT exists anymore. He will need to throw his old hard crisp jab constantly to keep Pavlik off him. If he is lazy with it, Pavlik will eat him up. This is one reason it's a great matchup.
