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they walked around for 1:45 then one punch and it was over...there's no way in hell either one of them could take a punch from a boxer at 175...damn that sucked....
How in the hell do they really believe that crap will surpass boxing...any shmo off the street could kayo liddel,,,
MMA UFC :badass: :bananastyle: :plzdie: :tombstone:
Morrison would have knocked out either one of these guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Well, to be fair, he probably could've gotten up from that punch if boxing's 10-count rule was in effect. But in UFC, the guy could jump right on him and pound on him the second he fell to the canvas.
I don't think too many boxers would get up if their opponent could jump on them and hit them after they hit the canvas.
You have to wonder....how could such a good fighter get caught like that????
[youtube=425,350]7BCU64CwmYc[/youtube]
::** .....methinks he's got a bit of a problem with the way he throws punches
OVER BEFORE IT STARTS!!!! UFC 87
Only on Directv.
I don't think too many boxers would get up if their opponent could jump on them and hit them after they hit the canvas. SweatPea
LOL "Strike like a viper; Pounce like a leopard."
boxers obviously are the better punchers, but you gotta remember that mma fighters uses tiny gloves with paddings thick enough just to protect the knuckles. plus the fact that there is no standing 8 count.
With regards to the arguments about MMA vs Boxing, and who's a real professional or not, I'll pass on my judgement. But, If I was on the streets, or in a bar fight, I'd still choose Chuck and Tank Abbot to have my back, lol.
true enough...but had he gotten up in the ring he would have still been out on his feet and been stopped anyway...in fact as stand up fighters both of those guys would have been killed in the ring..now when there are no rules then they can tackle, bite, scratch, kick and claw their way to a victory...Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
it weird how these guys have actually convinced themselves that they have skills..they're are tough guys no doubt, and would fight anybody, but that shit isn't skillful and if they where so good they'd box because they'd have more money....
Why the heck are you hating on MMA ???
Any shmoe on the street can KO Liddell ??? riiight I guess thats why he'd never been knocked out before Rampage did it ::**
It was just a freak result. Judah got kayoed by Tyszu with one punch in the second round of their fight and I don't remember people saying it meant that all boxers were shit ???Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
I'm sure if there would have been a count in force he would have got up. You also have to remember it's MUCH easier to get hit in MMA as the gloves are not like big cushions on your hands and don't block virtually everything that comes near you.
Finally, of course boxers are better punchers and better at defending a punch as that's all they have to deal with. When an opponent comes at Floyd he knows all they are going to try and do is punch him. If he also had to factor in that they might try and kick him, elbow him or make a grab for him and try and throw him then I'm sure he'd be even more of a runner than he is now ;)
acually i watched rampage fight silva and he showed some very good boxing defensive skills. liddel has always been a guy even mma fans have said is not technically sound but is tough and can knock people out. Its funny I was a kickboxer before i fought in mma and i used to rain multiple combos on people and not always knock them out.But now in mma when i landed a clean punch i dropped them and then ended the fight with punches. I don't think that i went to mma and magically mine and my opponents chin got weaker.
ya i could see mayweather roll one punch off his shoulder against the ropes and then get picked and slammed
judah wasn't the face of the sport either and they actually fought the whole first round first..judah got caught because he got cocky after winning the first round...liddell got caught because he's slow and didn't bring his hand back in time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
besides that would be the tactic if mma vs boxer ever happened because the mma fighter knows that if the boxer lands its over so the best way to beat him would be to pull him down on the ground and hope to get him in a submission hold...but floyd is one of the best fighter's in the world in terms of footwork so i also have no doubt that he'd escape the first couple of attempt to take him down and he'd probably land a punch and wobble matt hughes then you know the rest...(hating) such an overused term..Quote:
Originally Posted by Starr
anyway that crap was a dissappointment i hope that wasn't supposed to be their version of "the world awaits" because that was some major B.S....i don't see why they just don't call it wrestling...but if a true greco-roman wrestler was in mma he probably rule the sport...
with 4 ounce gloves if anyone lands a hard shot it can end the fight, boxers included what about roy jones getting Knocked out he was one of the faces of boxing. And yes a boxer in mma would get taken down thats what its all about finding the weakness and exploiting it and boxing footwork is dnot the same as a sprawl. and lastly dan severn who was a geco roman wrestler would get owned in todays UFC both on the ground and standing.
Watch Anderson Silva. The sport first progressed in the ground game, but now its starting to develop more of a standing game. Dana White was a pro boxer, and he realizes the standing game is more important. That is why MMA is doing better than when it first came out because one there is better advertising, but two he is having more stand up fighters fighting eachother.
are you serious roy jones? he was on top of the sport for fifteen years before he FINALY got hit hard enough to drop him...please don't compare that skilled bar fighter liddell to and atg likr RJJ...if its about finding the weakness why didn't liddell take down rampage instead standing up there trying to throw hands.. ...any how boxing is the ultimate man vs man test of might ufc is a deseperate plea to try to match that..and i guarantee cale sanderson whoops all of them...and if they are so tough and want to make real money and get real attention that boxers get why not box? because they can't they're all flawed so they say well i bet you can't beat me wrestling...Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdboy
That is probably the most childish argument I have read in years. Why don't boxers play golf and make real money. Only the top 10 percent of boxers make alot of money, and even then it's a pretty short career. Golfers make money and they don't even have to sweat. Oh I know it because they get mad because they can't hit a ball as good so they say I bet I can punch you in the face more than you punch me..............Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Man the MMA haters need to get out of this board, if you can't say anything nice about it then just go away.
boxers don't play golf....and the point was or is...instead MMA fighters trying to gain everything that boxing has (larger fans, more promotion, more money per fighter,) by down playing the real skill that it takes to box...its quite simple just box..if you want to be seen as a good or great fighter and want all the luxuries that come with being a world class fighter then why not box?Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
and boxers as a whole aren't complaining about wanting tiger woods' masters jacket. and they aren't on espn saying "don't watch them watch us"...that was the point when i said if they want what boxers get why not box....
yeah i could easily miss the point and say well why don't golfers just design great software and become bill gates, but that wouldn't make sense because golfers aren't complaining about no one watching their sport and saying "oh watch us because we're smarter than bill gates plus we hit a ball"
i hope this was much clear for you....
....the boxing forum has plenty of haters on the forum, we're just spreading the love to this rarely viewed part of the forum. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Poom
Honestly, I am just trying to see what's so great about MMA from the people who wet themselves for a chance to see a Chuck Liddel fight.
My whole deal is you could put the best two fighters and the worst two fighters in matches and it'll look the exact same, there is no VISABLE difference in skill level due to the style used to fight, I don't understand how guys like Joe Rogan can say it's exciting to see someone tap out of a submission hold....yeah Joe I used to like watching Hulk Hogan too Brother, back when I was 8!
And what's all this about MMA fighters calling out boxers? YOUR BOYS bring it on themselves....if I'm a big time boxer I call up all those guys in the MMA groups and get them to BOX...that's the argument it's that MMA guys do MMA because they can't box and I for one think it's 100% true....granted they guys are extremely skilled at ju jitsu and TKD and wrestling but they just can't do boxing.
well i started this thread in the boxing forum..so the other boxing students, fans, enthusiast, hobbist, amateur boxers could give their opinion on UFC 71..and how terrible it wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Poom
ah kk sorry I didn't actually realise that it was not started here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
That's your opinion Lyle. Personally I think baseball and golf are slightly less exciting than bowling. I find them to be so boring and I can't believe that they get as much tv time as they do. However a whole bunch of people don't agree with me, some of them are even friends of mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
By the way this thing got started because PBF was talking trash about MMA. Not the other way around. Then the MMA fighters start calling out PBF. Then PBF says he was joking. Also if you watch that Dibella Rogan debate, I think Joe was just pissed after being insulted by Dibella. Dibella made the human cock fighting comment before Joe said he was in a dying sport.
Well perhaps DiBella hit a nerve?
I think the MMA boys were a little jealous to begin with and now maybe the boxers feel, not threatened but they just don't see what all the fuss is about, I don't....BUT I can see what turns people off to boxing the match ups, the politics, and the fights not meeting expectations....MMA doesn't have that, but it will as it gets bigger and if you don't believe that then you're crazy
Perhaps you've heard of Randy Couture or Mark Kerr. Randy was an olympic medalist gr wrestler. Now I'm no gr expert, but from my experience you have to be pretty good at something to get to the olympics, much less medal. Randy is an ATG, and still out there beating world-class HW's. Mark Kerr was very successful in the early UFC days. Him and Mark Coleman basically invented the GNP. I believe Mark beat Randy for the NCAA Div. 1A gr wrestling title. Both much better examples than Dan "I have man tits" Severn.Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdboy
The wrestling looks very technical....the ju jitsu holds and what not look very technical.....the KICKING looks like they practice REALLY hard at it and are really good at it (I wouldn't know I don't kick).....the only things that a WEAK are the punching and the punch blocking....that's the HUGE issue boxing fans have with the sport IMO.
Name a light heavyweight who gets dropped on a shot like Jackson threw? He'd have to be a BUM or an idiot to not see it coming....hell I saw it coming just by watching Chuck drop the left hand after he threw the jab
And if you're going to pride yourself on being technically sound at all levels of fighting wouldn't you want to know how to throw AND block punches and kicks???...I mean it's just a suggestion, the only thing I hit that doesn't hit back is the heavybag, and no titles are handed out for hitting that
so what your saying is that these guys have mastered many very technical systems of fighting but becouse they havent mastered boxing yet that there all crap fighters. the thing is rampage does train in boxing I watched some thing about his training and he was working with a well known boxing trainer. and i agree that it makes you a better fighter to perfect punching it just hasnt happened yet becouse mastering all aspects of fighting is not simple and becouse there is another sport called boxing that has all the best boxers. But i think very soon there will be more boxers in mma and i will be curious to see if u think its worth watching then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
....noooooooo I'm saying that they need to learn how to "strike" and defend better....everything else is fine and dandy but at the end of the day people pay money to see FIGHTING.....not wrestling or what have you.
People say UFC will take over boxing.....fine if you consider Liddell-Jackson II "good fighting" that's great, but BOXERS, especially title holders usually don't get stomped like that due to lack of technical ability. It would be different if Jackson set that punch up but it was just one and done...all because he had his hands low and didn't dodge the punch that OBVIOUSLY comes over a low jab.....I've been hit by the right cross in sparring for the same reason Liddell got KO'd, I learned from it, ESPECIALLY vs guys I have sparred with before.
If it's truly ULTIMATE FIGHTING fighters should be able to really FIGHT instead of grapple and so on. Part of fighting is defense, part of it is strategy, and part of it is offense. These guys have NO defense (as far as 'striking' is concerned) and they look like they just make up strategy on the fly.
Ok i think we agree on most of that "most" mma fighters are not champion level boxers I guess I just see the technical side of jujitsu and kicking as entertaining fights I am just waiting for the boxing aspect to catch up. Its only getting better
Haha, Lyle, did you see that guy in UFC 71. The vet black guy who was fighting the young white noob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
'Apparently' he'd been training at a boxing Gym, learning to throw the jab.
He was throwing it but he was getting owned untill he pulled off some sort of bitchy arm lock... Which wasn't even effective IMO.
Couldnt belive it when, after the fight, he actually started bad mouthing boxres. Talking about 'im the mother fucking fight'.
Some of these guys are pricks.
Dont get me wrong, UFC is twice as thrilling as most boxing matches but some of these MMA guys have it seriously twisted.
Matt Skelton the exception 8)
Bad attitudes, bad tattoos, bad haircuts, and they can't throw or block punches.
I'd rather see a boxing match....even one that includes John Ruiz rather than MMA, UFC, etc.
Boxing has boring fights....UFC has boring fights....boxing has some bad commentators but I'd rather listen to Larry Merchant than Joe Rogan. Larry may not know much about boxing but he knows more about boxing than Rogan knows about MMA.
I consider UFC a sport the same way I consider the X-Games "sport"....sure competition is going on but it's a completely made up by people who can't succeed at other sports.
You would think that if ju jitsu and wrestling had such a huge following to begin with they would have their own professional leagues.
rigth....and if a boxer had those tiny gloves on the damage created would get MMA banned for good...the only thing Lidell was going to get if he was allowed to get up was more of a beating.....Quote:
Originally Posted by mnmc10
There are tons of boxing matches that end early on a single punch ko. It's not that someone has no defensive skill, it's that it only takes a second to make a mistake. I remember this fight that ended in 91 seconds. It was built up as a great boxer and defensive fighter vs an offensive powerhouse. Spinks got put down by a body shot??? Then put out by an uppercut that he just stood still and waited for.... Both sports have the same factor which is what I like.... They can end at any moment. A momentary lapse and it's game over no matter how skilled you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Have boxers switch to those "gloves" and someone is going to sleep fast... I don't care if you have Evander Holyfield or JCC in the ring. Wearing boxing gloves makes a HUGE difference, folks. Of course Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture would not make it in a boxing ring, but they'd take A LOT more punches than they do in the octagon. And No, ( insert your favorite boxer's name here ) wouldn't make it in the octagon. Could they cross train over? Hell yes! But great punching power, technique and speed means absolutely nothing when you're on your back punching up or in a clinch against the cage. Punching alone is nothing to hang your laurels on. MMA fighters would be fools to devote as much time to stand up as a boxer, because that's just one aspect of the fight game. You are toast without several other styles thrown in the mix. Fighters spend more time on the ground than they do trading punches.....ummmm, by far... blame it gravity or the fact that we're bipedal creatures, but don't deny the fact.
P.S.= Have boxers take their gloves off and go at it. Their records wouldn't look the same. Everyone under the sun would stack up losses. Out of nowhere you'd see people like Corey Spinks one shotting fools. And that's not even allowing fighters to pummel their opponent while he's down.
P.S.S.= I know the fight was a let down for some people. It happened to be more exciting to me than watching Taylor/Spinks.. personally. I really enjoy MMA.
P.S.S.S= I still think boxing is the greatest sport on the planet. And that's saying a lot, because I'm a huge college/pro football fan. Nothing fires me up as much as boxing and I'm constantly defending it against MMA fans. I'm just calling it like I see it. They're both fun, but they're different. Enjoy the one you like and forget the other. Or better yet, enjoy them both. I don't see the sense in bashing either.
It's not a let down it's just a simple fuck up.....Liddell fucked up and dropped his hands, happens all the time....even in boxing .....
BUT RARELY TO THE TOP LEVEL FIGHTERS!!!
tiny gloves or not liddell was going down..and in boxing if he doesn't go down from that punch the next one would have put him down
the fact with the whole mma v boxing thing is.. and ive seen a zillion of these threads..
an mma guy wouldnt last a minute in a boxing ring if you told him he couldnt grapple, kick, choke, submit etc..
a pure boxer wouldnt last a minute in an mma bout if all he could do was box..
two completely different disciplines, i think we need to respect them both and stop comparing..
people massivley underestimate boxers because of their "one dimension."
the truth is, it's the best dimension to have in ANY form of combat sport. then take your pick of a ground game....wrestling, bjj, judo....
just try taking a top boxer down....see how many shots you eat trying to get inside. Sure it can be done, and the top mma guys these days are skilled in other disciplines. but we've never seen a TRUE top boxer make the switch. my point, getting past their exponentially better hands to take them down is far harder than people think. and yes they're 4oz gloves. but God help those who face a boxer with 4oz gloves. it's to the boxer's advantage, not the mma guy. don't kid yourself.
Chuck is one of the few guys in mma who, when traiing on mitts, actually looks like a decent boxer. (mirko is another.) both can outstrike guys. both have great sprawls and rely on them to dictate the terms of the fight. both have had outstanding careers. you do the math.
ps, chuck lost because chuck carries his hands ridiculously low and it finally caught up with him. even my wife picked up on that.
CC Von Milash.....I do think if MMA continues to do well the fighting style will adapt and include more boxing and better boxing technique.
....