Rocky how overrated is he

Hello this is my first post here at saddo. I read alot of the forums here and it seems the people here have pretty good opinions on boxing so i thought i would join so i could get some feed back on my own thoughts so heres my first post.

I know Rocky was in a weak era of boxing. But does that mean he wasn't good because it . In my personal opinion i think the Rock could of beat Walcott,Charles and Louis when they were younger. I mean he would have a greater chance of losing don't get me wrong but i think his power still could knock them out at any age. I think he could of beat any man that was before his era but those are just my opinions and you are welcome to bash me for it.

So there is my post i hope some one will find the time to read it and give me there thoughts on it.

Welcome mate have your first coolie on me.

Rocky beat everyone worth fighting and thats good enough for me. You have to beat the best to be the best and he did and was. I wish I could get all his fights I only have 5 of them :-\

Thank you for you comments i didn't expect to get answered so fast, it is my first time on forums.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Thank you for you comments i didn't expect to get answered so fast, it is my first time on forums.

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No problem mate. You will get seriously addicted to this place I promise you. Again, welcome to the best boxing site on the net!

Rocky is slighted a bit because of his competition and the fact that Walcott, Louis and Charles were young. Personally I don't think the Louis victory holds any water, and Rocky said that himself that that fight was all about the money for the both of them but when he got in the ring he didn't know what else to do but fight. I'll try to find that quote later on if anybody wants it.

The thing about Rocky is, like he said, all he knew how to do was fight. He gets railed on for only having eight title defenses with only a handful being really legitimate and meaningful, that's easy to say on paper. But he took SO much punishment in those fights it is just unbelievable that he won even one of those bouts.

When he fought Ezzard Charles, I swear Charles did not miss a punch that night. He splits Marciano's nostrils, bubbles of blood go up and down everytime Marciano breathes in and out, yet he continues to stay aggressive and eventually breaks Charles down. And he did it with raw power.

It's really a spectacle to watch him fight especially if you grew up in the modern day because you constantly think that he is just a no hoper, no real gym training, just trying to land one punch to make it all happen like most journeyman with fight do. But the thing is, his punch had such raw power, he had such good timing and such a toughness about him that you really couldn't count him out.

All you have to do is watch Walcott absolutely school him for 12 rounds. It was a thrashing basically, it really was. Then watch Rocky Marciano land this right hand that looks subtle on the film and that Walcott went down due to being gassed. Then you see the famous picture, it's not subtle at all, it really was "The Perfect Punch" and you have to see the film and the picture to get the jist of it. On the picture it looks like Rocky just lunged from the outside and caught Walcott perfectly with a lot of power behind it. On the film, Rocky gets hit a couple times, Joe Walcott backs up and as he comes back forward he gets hit with a perfectly timed punch.

And that's the beauty of Rocky Marciano, there are probably 100 heavyweights who had more pure boxing skill then him, but his excellent timing, toughness and raw power made him a truly great fighter.

I don't think he is a top 5 heavyweight, but as I wouldn't have had him top 10 before, I would now after seeing him fight more.

Good topic and good first post, have a :coolclick: and welcome to the board. Hope you stick around.

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Originally Posted by amat

Rocky is slighted a bit because of his competition and the fact that Walcott, Louis and Charles were young. Personally I don't think the Louis victory holds any water, and Rocky said that himself that that fight was all about the money for the both of them but when he got in the ring he didn't know what else to do but fight. I'll try to find that quote later on if anybody wants it.

The thing about Rocky is, like he said, all he knew how to do was fight. He gets railed on for only having eight title defenses with only a handful being really legitimate and meaningful, that's easy to say on paper. But he took SO much punishment in those fights it is just unbelievable that he won even one of those bouts.

When he fought Ezzard Charles, I swear Charles did not miss a punch that night. He splits Marciano's nostrils, bubbles of blood go up and down everytime Marciano breathes in and out, yet he continues to stay aggressive and eventually breaks Charles down. And he did it with raw power.

It's really a spectacle to watch him fight especially if you grew up in the modern day because you constantly think that he is just a no hoper, no real gym training, just trying to land one punch to make it all happen like most journeyman with fight do. But the thing is, his punch had such raw power, he had such good timing and such a toughness about him that you really couldn't count him out.

All you have to do is watch Walcott absolutely school him for 12 rounds. It was a thrashing basically, it really was. Then watch Rocky Marciano land this right hand that looks subtle on the film and that Walcott went down due to being gassed. Then you see the famous picture, it's not subtle at all, it really was "The Perfect Punch" and you have to see the film and the picture to get the jist of it. On the picture it looks like Rocky just lunged from the outside and caught Walcott perfectly with a lot of power behind it. On the film, Rocky gets hit a couple times, Joe Walcott backs up and as he comes back forward he gets hit with a perfectly timed punch.

And that's the beauty of Rocky Marciano, there are probably 100 heavyweights who had more pure boxing skill then him, but his excellent timing, toughness and raw power made him a truly great fighter.

I don't think he is a top 5 heavyweight, but as I wouldn't have had him top 10 before, I would now after seeing him fight more.

Good topic and good first post, have a :coolclick: and welcome to the board. Hope you stick around.

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CC for a fantastic post!

All you have to do is watch Walcott absolutely school him for 12 rounds. It was a thrashing basically, it really was. Then watch Rocky Marciano land this right hand that looks subtle on the film and that Walcott went down due to being gassed. Then you see the famous picture, it's not subtle at all, it really was "The Perfect Punch" and you have to see the film and the picture to get the jist of it. On the picture it looks like Rocky just lunged from the outside and caught Walcott perfectly with a lot of power behind it. On the film, Rocky gets hit a couple times, Joe Walcott backs up and as he comes back forward he gets hit with a perfectly timed punch.


I must see this

Love the input people give on this site helps because alot of my friends don't like boxing so i can't have debates about boxing and it nice have a place to do that in, also what is a cc and how do you give it if it is a good thing forgive me i am new to the forum thing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M9msELiZKyU

Walcott was just beginning to come in when he got hit. I thought he started his motion before Rocky, was a bit wrong but that was that "phantom" right of Marciano. He would fool opponents into thinking he was going to the body by looking down and not flying the shoulder out, then he would explode on top of them before they realized what was going on. That is a technique that imo, could still serve well today I wish it were taught a bit more.

Also, the copy I had on my old computer, the camera was looking over Marciano's shoulders a bit when the punch was landed. Really gives good perspective on the punch but that does too, pretty plain to see. Devastating. And he took some to give some, vintage Marciano.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Love the input people give on this site helps because alot of my friends don't like boxing so i can't have debates about boxing and it nice have a place to do that in, also what is a cc and how do you give it if it is a good thing forgive me i am new to the forum thing.

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A CC is a cool click, it's the little ratio under your name. If someone likes a post, they will give a CC. That is the + number, if they don't like a post, they will give a Sad Click, which is the minus number to the left. Right now you are 3-0. You can give them once you reach 100 post.

And yeah, none of my friends follow boxing either which makes this place all the more better.

Also I CC'd you Kel.

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Love the input people give on this site helps because alot of my friends don't like boxing so i can't have debates about boxing and it nice have a place to do that in, also what is a cc and how do you give it if it is a good thing forgive me i am new to the forum thing.

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A CC is a cool click, it's the little ratio under your name. If someone likes a post, they will give a CC. That is the + number, if they don't like a post, they will give a Sad Click, which is the minus number to the left. Right now you are 3-0. You can give them once you reach 100 post.

And yeah, none of my friends follow boxing either which makes this place all the more better.

Also I CC'd you Kel.

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CC again in 24 mate for that video(thanks for the cool click mate too). I saw that clip in the knockout vid posted a few days back. Looked a lot more severe in real time.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...c,46025.0.html

That vid

Yeah that was just the first one I saw and the first time I'd seen it in real time from that view. The picture is still tops though.

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Originally Posted by amat

Yeah that was just the first one I saw and the first time I'd seen it in real time from that view. The picture is still tops though.

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Right on the button. Have you seen the whole fight?

While we are on the Walcott fight what in gods name happened the second time weird how Walcott acted he seem to be their enough to continue but got up after 10 count like he waited or something.

just a simple one two punch. fake jab, throw jab and follow quickly with a quick, loaded up right.

Does anyone know what was up with the second fight that rocky had with Walcott.

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by amat

Yeah that was just the first one I saw and the first time I'd seen it in real time from that view. The picture is still tops though.

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Right on the button. Have you seen the whole fight?

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Yes i have i got it on dvd good fight you would enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Does anyone know what was up with the second fight that rocky had with Walcott.

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May 15, 1953, Chicago, Illinois, Marciano KO'D Walcott in the first round.

I think Rocky gets underrated sometimes because he lacked the finesse and pretty boxing skills of, say, Ali or Patterson. Therefore, because Rocky's strengths were his heart and raw power, and he looked kinda clumsy, people assume he is overrated (if that makes any sense??). But in my book, anybody who retires as undefeated heavyweight champion at 49-0 (and hasn't ducked anybody in the process) deserves all the praise that can be heaped on them. IMO Rocky deserves top 10 status because of his record alone. As a few of the guys have already said, in many of his fights he has had a boxing lesson for maybe 10 rounds of the fight..... but the fight is scheduled for 15 rounds - and with Rocky you always knew he was gonna catch up with them at some point.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

While we are on the Walcott fight what in gods name happened the second time weird how Walcott acted he seem to be their enough to continue but got up after 10 count like he waited or something.

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would you want to get hit like that a couple more times?......how do you keep your composure when you hit a man with everything you have and he still keeps coming?! And hit like a mack truck to boot.....eventually that thin called "heart" slowly starts to die.....Rocky had more "heart" than anyone he ever faced...he was pretty much willing to die to beat you.....how do you beat someone like that?...I guess Rocky's record tells us the answer to that question...you don't.....welcome to the forum...this is by far the best boxing site on the internet.....

Rocky Marciano was one of the all time greats. He gave up inches and pounds& he beat everyone that was put in front of him. Not to many can say that.Not Ali, Frazier or Foreman.Back then there were smaller rings and lighter gloves.The refs let you really swat it out. Todays men wouldnt have the records in yesteryears boxing.

Considering how he is rated in most boxing experts top heavies, I wouldn't say he is overrated. Most have him in their top 15, or top 10.. Very few seem to have him in their top five, because of competition. Which can be debated, and people can argue that he fought guys past their prime, or they were cans of corn. With that said, noone at heavyweight has equaled his record yet. Not even the "king of fighting cans of corn"-Valuev. Still Rocky doesn't rate in alot of top fives. Also because of pure boxing skill. I don't consider him the best heavy, but I will give him his credit, because even if it's padded, it takes a beast to go undefeated, regardless of competition. And, the big three that everyone says was past their prime(totally agree), would have still whipped an average, to an above average fighter.

Cons-Not the greatest comp, or skills......Pros-Great chin, heart,power, and did go undefeated= top 10 for sure, probably top five. IMO, I feel he is judged fairly. Can't call him a bum, that's for sure.

I think he is overrated, but it is no knock on Rocky. The fact that he retired without losing leads a lot of people to overrate the guy IMO. I mean I've seen him on so many top 3 HW lists with the only reasoning being provided is that "he never lost" and he "hit hard". I think its a tremendous accomplishment to retire undefeated as champ. But I think most people look at the record to judge him instead of his fights. His biggest supporters have the problem that because they never seen him lose, they can't picture him losing. If you look at his fights, he was a great puncher and an extremly durable guy who was always in shape. He had premendous punching power. But he also showed that he was quite 1-dimensional and didn't have great boxing skills. A lot of guys gave him a lot of problems. His best wins were against guys well past their primes.

I also have to laugh at the notion of him being the #1 hardest hitter in history. I don't buy it. He had tremendous power for his size, but in the scheme of things I don't believe he could match the power punchers of the future, guys with 20-30lbs of GOOD weight on him. I mean just watch Marciano teeing off on 200lb punching bag Don Cockell (who in a newspaper interview interview after the fight claimed Marciano was a tremendously hard hitter but not the hardest puncher he faced). Do you believe that Cockell would have been able to take that many flush shots against guys like Foreman, Shavers, Liston or Tyson? I doubt it.

of course not. just like no light heavyweight today could take the punching power of foreman ali tyson shavers. Rock was a light heayweight by today's standards. So compare him against other light heavyweights.

Rocky is a tough guy to rate, because he didn't have a Frazier, or a Jeffries or a Holyfield to beat. He dominated, and he ALWAYS did what it took to get the W.

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

Rocky is a tough guy to rate, because he didn't have a Frazier, or a Jeffries or a Holyfield to beat.

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That is a very good point, CC. Very important, I think Larry Holmes had the same type of dilemma. Much like Marciano, his biggest win was probably over a great fighter fighting well past his prime.

It's one thing if there are other great fighters and you lose to them, it's another if there are just no great fighters who are fighting in and around their primes. Louis, Walcott and Charles are all all time greats, but they were all past it.