<Who do you credit with the style that PBF uses?>

I recently got into a little debate on Bruce Lee and how he would do in MMA today. Upon debating that I tried to go more in depth as far as the styles/forms that Bruce trained under. (I know this is starting off as MMA but hear me out and you'll see my point)
Bruce started training with his father Wu style Tai Chi Chuan, then he started training with Master Yip Man (Wing Chun) Yip Man would become Bruces mentor BUT Bruce did not finish learning the ENTIRE Wing Chun style.

What I'm trying to get to is Wing Chun, Wu style Tai Chi Chaun, Kung Fu and the rest of those Martial Art Forms have all evolved or it is said to have evolved from 1 form but as time has passed several people have modified or added things to ALL of these different styles. Amongst reading up on all of this I've learned that theres sooo many versions of styles that have been modified by different people and we really don't know who originally created the style. Since it is said that there 3 people who knew a style and one of em died the other 2 escaped and began to teach their styles.

And I started thinking about PBF's style of fighting. It is said that Floyd Snr. created this style that we see PBF use Roger says he learned some things from Floyd Snr. but that Roger himself added things to it and made his own style. FLoyd Snr. used it and practiced it himself when he was fighting. He then taught the style to Roger who to be honest didn't use much of the shoulder roll but you can see spurts of that style like tucking the chin at times with lot's of waist movement. Floyd Snr. then taught his son PBF that style for years Floyd Snr. with time modified the style took things from it and added things to it. He then stoped training PBF and Roger took over but once Roger took over you saw MORE shoulder roll, more defensive style without waisting too much energy and conserving your punches for the right moment as opposed to when Floyd Snr. was training him it was more offensive and more power punching.
Now going from the ODLH-PBF 24/7 series theres a few little Mayweathers running around with dirty diapers and boxing gloves. For the sake of the discussion let's say Roger starts training them and gives them what hes taught PBF then for some reason he stops and PBF (now retired) starts to train the little Mayweathers and teahces them what he learned from his pops and his uncle BUT then he also adds new things to it and takes away things from it.

Who do you think would be credited with the style by then?

And then the arguements would be he could beat who?
People would say PBF would beat his dad in a fight easily, other people would say his dad cause HE created the style?
Then the 3rd party would say well Floyd Snr. might have created it but Roger would beat them both cause he perfected the style and taught PBF what he knows.
Then if any of the little Mayweathers turned out really good people would say the little Mayweathers are better then PBF and Floyd Snr. & Roger cause of the new things they'd add.

So who do you credit with this style that's being used by PBF? Floyd, Roger or even PBF himself?

Damn.. Nobody even given you an answer yet! Cc in 24 for the topic!

For me..Its plain and simple..

Floyd sr and Roger can say they own floyds style all they like..But neither were ever a shade on floyds skill.. So since floyd put it into motion and made it his own.. And stuck his speed and eventual experiance to it.. Then its Floyds

All they can do..Which i will add is what they have done.. Is claim that they Helped..

Floyd sr Did more then roger i would say.. Roger as far as training and bieng there for floyd as a person and a fighter and bieng a successful fighter himself added the final touches which i believe doesnt include his defense..

And Floyd was just gifted enough to put it into practice.. Cos Floyd sr and Roger cant show floyd how to punch as fast as he does.. They cant show him how to block punches by getting in the ring with him.. Its all technical..And floyd puts his spin and skill on it

But if someone wants to claim it from the start they should be looking down the list in this sort of manner..

Toney-- From, Charles Walcott and so on :)

:coolclick: # 1575 for the thought provoking topic... Let me mull this one over before I can give you a definate answer ;)

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Damn.. Nobody even given you an answer yet! Cc in 24 for the topic!

For me..Its plain and simple..

Floyd sr and Roger can say they own floyds style all they like..But neither were ever a shade on floyds skill.. So since floyd put it into motion and made it his own.. And stuck his speed and eventual experiance to it.. Then its Floyds

All they can do..Which i will add is what they have done.. Is claim that they Helped..

Floyd sr Did more then roger i would say.. Roger as far as training and bieng there for floyd as a person and a fighter and bieng a successful fighter himself added the final touches which i believe doesnt include his defense..

And Floyd was just gifted enough to put it into practice.. Cos Floyd sr and Roger cant show floyd how to punch as fast as he does.. They cant show him how to block punches by getting in the ring with him.. Its all technical..And floyd puts his spin and skill on it

But if someone wants to claim it from the start they should be looking down the list in this sort of manner..

Toney-- From, Charles Walcott and so on :)

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i agree completely, both Floyd Sr. and Roger contributed to Floyd's style by teaching him the various nuances and subtleties he employs. I would say, however, that I would credit Floyd Jr. with the style he uses. Only he can put it into practise and I'm sure he's added things along the way that are wholly his own.

In the end...no matter what Floyd jr says...it all came from his daddy.

Senior taught Roger, Senior taught Floyd, Roger taught Floyd, & then Floyd melded both together & then tweaked it with his own speed & foot work.

CC.thought provoking stuff Mick. Although I have ZERO idea as to the answer,I'd like to know,do you just want to know who made the style for Floyd or the origins of it??>

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Damn.. Nobody even given you an answer yet! Cc in 24 for the topic!

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Ahh! not to worry sometimes I create threads that are for my own understanding of something.
Like I'll think something up and start typing most of them don't make it this board some do.
Anyway! heres CC#445.

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

For me..Its plain and simple..

Floyd sr and Roger can say they own floyds style all they like..But neither were ever a shade on floyds skill.. So since floyd put it into motion and made it his own.. And stuck his speed and eventual experiance to it.. Then its Floyds

All they can do..Which i will add is what they have done.. Is claim that they Helped..

Floyd sr Did more then roger i would say.. Roger as far as training and bieng there for floyd as a person and a fighter and bieng a successful fighter himself added the final touches which i believe doesnt include his defense..

And Floyd was just gifted enough to put it into practice.. Cos Floyd sr and Roger cant show floyd how to punch as fast as he does.. They cant show him how to block punches by getting in the ring with him.. Its all technical..And floyd puts his spin and skill on it

But if someone wants to claim it from the start they should be looking down the list in this sort of manner..

Toney-- From, Charles Walcott and so on :)

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Great point's and good thing that you brought up Walcott and Toney theres def. some influence there from those styles.
But I would say they helped PBF develope his speed, they helped him learn how to avoid/block punches.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

:coolclick: # 1575 for the thought provoking topic... Let me mull this one over before I can give you a definate answer ;)

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Thanks...
Heres CC#626 on me....
And I'll be looking forward to your post....

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Originally Posted by CFH

i agree completely, both Floyd Sr. and Roger contributed to Floyd's style by teaching him the various nuances and subtleties he employs. I would say, however, that I would credit Floyd Jr. with the style he uses. Only he can put it into practise and I'm sure he's added things along the way that are wholly his own.

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Herec CC#62 CFH and thanks for your input....

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

In the end...no matter what Floyd jr says...it all came from his daddy.

Senior taught Roger, Senior taught Floyd, Roger taught Floyd, & then Floyd melded both together & then tweaked it with his own speed & foot work.

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Wacks take CC#2940 and take it in well..... :)
I strongly agree here Senior is the creator while Roger and PBF are inovators of that form. (Amongst them not talking about Walcott & Toney)

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

CC.thought provoking stuff Mick. Although I have ZERO idea as to the answer,I'd like to know,do you just want to know who made the style for Floyd or the origins of it??>

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Heres CC#1724 El Gamo,
My questions are;
Who do YOU credit with the style that PBF uses today? Senior, Roger or PBF himself? Or other?
;D

Very simular to Charlie Burley.

Even though a huge Toney fan.. I can honestly say unbiased that Toney may have had some sort of impression on the style..Even if its picking little things here and there from a prime toney's performances on tape..

The way floyd turns in from the waist and with his shoulders with his right hand up is very ' Toney-esque'

I would draw the line quite close to there as i find floyd is alot more agile on his feet and a faster straiter puncher who doesnt rely on just his body movement to use as defense..

I also find floyd tends to lean away from the right hands where Toney does lean away but also tends to roll under punches and look for counters..

It could also be that floyd only really ever leans away when he is either on or near to the ropes as theres not much need for as much defensive work when hes controlling a fight in the centre of the ring..

Floyd is a student of the game, IMO. Learned what he could from dad, and both uncles, and from other fighters, and has adapted what works best for him out of all the styles. Give his family credit, but none of them were as good. If you listen, Roger hardly ever gives detailed instructions. A gameplan is formulated before the fight, and Floyd makes the adjustments on his own.



Not trying to discredit Roger, because I'm sure he takes it a little easier barking orders at Floyd, considering how Floyd Sr. was always like a drill sergeant with his son.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I recently got into a little debate on Bruce Lee and how he would do in MMA today. Upon debating that I tried to go more in depth as far as the styles/forms that Bruce trained under. (I know this is starting off as MMA but hear me out and you'll see my point)
Bruce started training with his father Wu style Tai Chi Chuan, then he started training with Master Yip Man (Wing Chun) Yip Man would become Bruces mentor BUT Bruce did not finish learning the ENTIRE Wing Chun style.

What I'm trying to get to is Wing Chun, Wu style Tai Chi Chaun, Kung Fu and the rest of those Martial Art Forms have all evolved or it is said to have evolved from 1 form but as time has passed several people have modified or added things to ALL of these different styles. Amongst reading up on all of this I've learned that theres sooo many versions of styles that have been modified by different people and we really don't know who originally created the style. Since it is said that there 3 people who knew a style and one of em died the other 2 escaped and began to teach their styles.

And I started thinking about PBF's style of fighting. It is said that Floyd Snr. created this style that we see PBF use Roger says he learned some things from Floyd Snr. but that Roger himself added things to it and made his own style. FLoyd Snr. used it and practiced it himself when he was fighting. He then taught the style to Roger who to be honest didn't use much of the shoulder roll but you can see spurts of that style like tucking the chin at times with lot's of waist movement. Floyd Snr. then taught his son PBF that style for years Floyd Snr. with time modified the style took things from it and added things to it. He then stoped training PBF and Roger took over but once Roger took over you saw MORE shoulder roll, more defensive style without waisting too much energy and conserving your punches for the right moment as opposed to when Floyd Snr. was training him it was more offensive and more power punching.
Now going from the ODLH-PBF 24/7 series theres a few little Mayweathers running around with dirty diapers and boxing gloves. For the sake of the discussion let's say Roger starts training them and gives them what hes taught PBF then for some reason he stops and PBF (now retired) starts to train the little Mayweathers and teahces them what he learned from his pops and his uncle BUT then he also adds new things to it and takes away things from it.

Who do you think would be credited with the style by then?

And then the arguements would be he could beat who?
People would say PBF would beat his dad in a fight easily, other people would say his dad cause HE created the style?
Then the 3rd party would say well Floyd Snr. might have created it but Roger would beat them both cause he perfected the style and taught PBF what he knows.
Then if any of the little Mayweathers turned out really good people would say the little Mayweathers are better then PBF and Floyd Snr. & Roger cause of the new things they'd add.

So who do you credit with this style that's being used by PBF? Floyd, Roger or even PBF himself?

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actually, according to floyd after his fight with emmanuel burton. a fight in which floyd was bloodied up pretty good due his focus on offense not defence...floyd said that his father used to always keep him focused on defence and it was roger that told him that he wasn't going to sell fights by being the best defensive fighter and that he needed to open up and throw more punches...i think floyd mentions it after the fight with emmauel as well....

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I recently got into a little debate on Bruce Lee and how he would do in MMA today. Upon debating that I tried to go more in depth as far as the styles/forms that Bruce trained under. (I know this is starting off as MMA but hear me out and you'll see my point)
Bruce started training with his father Wu style Tai Chi Chuan, then he started training with Master Yip Man (Wing Chun) Yip Man would become Bruces mentor BUT Bruce did not finish learning the ENTIRE Wing Chun style.

What I'm trying to get to is Wing Chun, Wu style Tai Chi Chaun, Kung Fu and the rest of those Martial Art Forms have all evolved or it is said to have evolved from 1 form but as time has passed several people have modified or added things to ALL of these different styles. Amongst reading up on all of this I've learned that theres sooo many versions of styles that have been modified by different people and we really don't know who originally created the style. Since it is said that there 3 people who knew a style and one of em died the other 2 escaped and began to teach their styles.

And I started thinking about PBF's style of fighting. It is said that Floyd Snr. created this style that we see PBF use Roger says he learned some things from Floyd Snr. but that Roger himself added things to it and made his own style. FLoyd Snr. used it and practiced it himself when he was fighting. He then taught the style to Roger who to be honest didn't use much of the shoulder roll but you can see spurts of that style like tucking the chin at times with lot's of waist movement. Floyd Snr. then taught his son PBF that style for years Floyd Snr. with time modified the style took things from it and added things to it. He then stoped training PBF and Roger took over but once Roger took over you saw MORE shoulder roll, more defensive style without waisting too much energy and conserving your punches for the right moment as opposed to when Floyd Snr. was training him it was more offensive and more power punching.
Now going from the ODLH-PBF 24/7 series theres a few little Mayweathers running around with dirty diapers and boxing gloves. For the sake of the discussion let's say Roger starts training them and gives them what hes taught PBF then for some reason he stops and PBF (now retired) starts to train the little Mayweathers and teahces them what he learned from his pops and his uncle BUT then he also adds new things to it and takes away things from it.

Who do you think would be credited with the style by then?

And then the arguements would be he could beat who?
People would say PBF would beat his dad in a fight easily, other people would say his dad cause HE created the style?
Then the 3rd party would say well Floyd Snr. might have created it but Roger would beat them both cause he perfected the style and taught PBF what he knows.
Then if any of the little Mayweathers turned out really good people would say the little Mayweathers are better then PBF and Floyd Snr. & Roger cause of the new things they'd add.

So who do you credit with this style that's being used by PBF? Floyd, Roger or even PBF himself?

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actually, according to floyd after his fight with emmanuel burton. a fight in which floyd was bloodied up pretty good due his focus on offense not defence...floyd said that his father used to always keep him focused on defence and it was roger that told him that he wasn't going to sell fights by being the best defensive fighter and that he needed to open up and throw more punches...i think floyd mentions it after the fight with emmauel as well....

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Which i also find ironic because the original groundwork and what floyd sr is known for is teaching defensive fighting..

Roger is the one that said i put floyd on ppv during the 24/7 series.. But yet..

Although floyd taught jr all about defence and he is more known for this then roger by a long shot..

Floyd jr was in fact a more offensive fighter when at the lighter weights and with his figher..And its only since bieng with roger that he pulled out performances like baldomir, de la hoya and gatti..where he could not drop gatti aside from a referee not breaking them up and floyd catching arturo off gaurd..His power hasnt surfaced but he has shown more defensive performances..

So something is mixed up..Roger says he put him on ppv..Implying more exciting fighting but has had more defensive performances...

But Senior is the defense man.Taught him the defense in the first place but when with floyd jr he was more powerful a fighter and more entertaining by a long shot imo!

Of course aside from this the logical explanation is floyd doesnt have the same power at these higher weights and of course there is the level of competition and theyr specific attributes in chin to take into consideration..

So the above may mean nothing and it is just the weight change affecting all this..

Frankly if im to say anyone is wrong about anything it is that roger is wrong saying he put floyd on ppv..

No ..You didnt make him hit hard and be crowd pleasing did you.. Your nephew is a greatly skilled fighter and proved himself p4p best and nobody could deny him ppv status when he was fighting all the other big names etc..

Something to ponder on perhaps!

Peace

Roger was the offensive one, and Floyd Snr the defensive one just to clear that up.

Secondly I think Mayweather Jr. is a superior athlete than either ROger or Floyd Snr., and as importantly he has a far better chin than either. ANother important factor is his amazing body control. Pretty Boy isn't just fast, but always in control of his body and has incredible balance. He can leap in with a cross ala Roy Jones Jr. or with a left hook effortlessly, and thats something neither of his predecessors could do.

Every American Boxer is a bastard offspring of the GODFATHER OF BOXING....



The Great SUGAR RAY ROBINSON ;)

There is always co-credit thru history for these kind of things. There will be credit given to the person who invented it and seperate credit for the person who tweaked it to what it is today. If mayweather teaches his kids how to box and changes it up he'll get the credit of making it what it is today and his father will get credit for coming up with it in the first place. With the case of floyd currently, Senior gets credit of invention while roger gets credit for making it what it is now.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Every American Boxer is a bastard offspring of the GODFATHER OF BOXING....



The Great SUGAR RAY ROBINSON ;)

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except roy jones jr..here's his real father

http://www.severnbeach.com/sac/graph...mecock_jpg.jpg ;D

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Every American Boxer is a bastard offspring of the GODFATHER OF BOXING....



The Great SUGAR RAY ROBINSON ;)

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except roy jones jr..here's his real father

http://www.severnbeach.com/sac/graph...mecock_jpg.jpg ;D

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:D Good one! cc

This isint going to be anything different than what has been metioned already....

The foundation of Floyds style has to be attributed to his father, Boxing is all Floyd has ever known and been exposed to his whole life... But with that Floyd is no robot and was able to think and put his own stamp on that style through trial and error and just being a product of his enviorment Floyd is extremely motivated and driven to be the best, so thats condusive to him not being content with what was presented to him but working hard to make it better, like him or hate him he is a phenom and a Virtuoso..

I think Roger probably has polished his attributes like speed and coordination and ring intelligence and help him tie it all together and be more efficient ;)

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Every American Boxer is a B****** offspring of the GODFATHER OF BOXING....



The Great SUGAR RAY ROBINSON ;)

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He was an offspring of Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, etc.,etc.

Like I said before, Floyd is a student of the game. I've seen him do some SRR, some SRL, and even do the lunging lead right, and the quick duck out of the way like RJJ. IMO, if you have that much athletic ability, and the determination to train as hard as he does, use whatever you can to win, and be successful. Floyd has copied alot, but has made his own style. Why not learn from the best, and modify your own.

I wonder if Bill Miller, Toney's first trainer, ever worked with Roger or Floyd Sr. There all from Michigan.

I'm not saying Floyd fights just like Toney, he's more versatile than Toney but some of the things he does, especially on the inside are fairly similar, like Tito was saying.

good topic mick CC

i see it like this

a style is only as good as the perosn who uses it, much like a belt... many consider the wbc belt as the top belt, but i consider each belt as good as the fighter who holds it.

Floyd is an amazinly skilled fighter.. things come naturaly to him and no doubt the style he uses he makes...

through 5 weights his style has changed... and thats down to 20% of his training and 80% of his skill IMO

like any martial art... everyone has thier own idea.. but its natural talent that take sit to the next level