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name the great that made him great...
Roberto duran...name the fighter that he beat that propelled him into greatness...
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Re: name the great that made him great...
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Re: name the great that made him great...
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roberto duran...name the fighter that he beat that propelled him into greatness...
There's a lot more to greatness than that mate
I assume you are questioning his greatness based on his opposition?
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Beating Sugar Ray Leonard has got to be.
Because Ken Buchanan was controversial that wouldn't of made him great
Neither did De Jesus.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
When he beat Barkley it made him more of a legend but Iran was never a gret boxer.
One hellofa fighter do
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Re: name the great that made him great...
From his first win to his last, from his first loss to his last Duran was amazing. Anybody with an eye surely saw that.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
If we can discuss other fighters & not just Duran...how about Floyd Mayweather jr?
Rule of thumb says it was TKOing Genaro Hernandez for the WBC's Super Feather belt.
My opinion?
Wacko says the Corrales win showed Floyd's true form. I say that was when his greatness came into play...not just the Oscar win...as many are now saying made him great.
Anyone?
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Re: name the great that made him great...
I don't consider Floyd grat just yet.
He has awesome potentional but hasn't captured the publics imagination
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Sparring with Rocky Balboa ;D ;D
Seriously the 2 DeJesus wins,or Hector Thompson
Beating Leanard made him a well known great in the States though
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Sparring with Rocky Balboa ;D ;D
Seriously the 2 DeJesus wins,or Hector Thompson
Beating Leanard made him a well known great in the States though
so who did Dejesus and thompson beat that made them great?
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Beating Sugar Ray Leonard has got to be.
Because Ken Buchanan was controversial that wouldn't of made him great
Neither did De Jesus.
So then oliver mccall must be great? but then you might not consider Lennox to be great...
So then is montell griffith great because he beat toney twice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roberto duran...name the fighter that he beat that propelled him into greatness...
There's a lot more to greatness than that mate
I assume you are questioning his greatness based on his opposition?
you assume correctly because i personally think he's way too high on the all time list and he beat up a bunch of bums and padded his record....
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Re: name the great that made him great...
DeJesus-Duran himself,Garcia,Gomez,Marquez
Thompson-Santos,White,Tetteh,though Thompson stuck around WAY to long
Sort of like Duran,except with alot more losses
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Beating Sugar Ray Leonard has got to be.
Because Ken Buchanan was controversial that wouldn't of made him great
Neither did De Jesus.
So then oliver mccall must be great? but then you might not consider Lennox to be great...
So then is montell griffith great because he beat toney twice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Roberto duran...name the fighter that he beat that propelled him into greatness...
There's a lot more to greatness than that mate
I assume you are questioning his greatness based on his opposition?
you assume correctly because i personally think he's way too high on the all time list and he beat up a bunch of bums and padded his record....
What you are showing is complete ignorance and proving that your knowledge of him is based on a piece of paper with his opponents written on!
Honestly mate for any boxing fan to say that about Duran is madness. You won't find many boxing experts (and I mean the real experts) that don't have Duran top 5 p4p of all time.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
DeJesus-Duran himself,Garcia,Gomez,Marquez
Thompson-Santos,White,Tetteh,though Thompson stuck around WAY to long
Sort of like Duran,except with alot more losses
are you talking about josue? because there's no way in hell beating him would make any one great..
and garcia? fighting a lot of fights doesn't make him great esp when his resume is a virtual who's who's of nobody's
and gomez? please!!!!!!
So I ask again who was it that made duran great? because he just a has a padded record and a win over SRL...
other than ray no one else he beat is considered great so how is it that he's considered great?
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
DeJesus-Duran himself,Garcia,Gomez,Marquez
Thompson-Santos,White,Tetteh,though Thompson stuck around WAY to long
Sort of like Duran,except with alot more losses
are you talking about josue? because there's no way in hell beating him would make any one great..
and garcia? fighting a lot of fights doesn't make him great esp when his resume is a virtual who's who's of nobody's
and gomez? please!!!!!!
So I ask again who was it that made duran great? because he just a has a padded record and a win over SRL...
other than ray no one else he beat is considered great so how is it that he's considered great?
Gee Thompson held numerous belts over his career,and was a mandatory for the WBA belt twice
DeJesus won the WBC belt and held it for 3 defenses before Duran unified
Marquez challenged for the WBA title
And Gomez held a WBA title
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Re: name the great that made him great...
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
Top 3 of all time BBC are talking out there ass.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
He only held the lightweight belt for 7 years,unified the WBC and WBA belts,took the welterweight belt from Leonard,and then moves up in weight again to become the light middleweight champ,and then moves up again to take the middleweight belt.
Whadda bum,I tells ya ;D
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
Top 3 of all time BBC are talking out there a**.
3 is a bit high, but 5 maybe :-\
Seriously you goota watch the man - it aint just about names on paper! He fought everybody there was to fight - and people that know a lot more than anybody on here ALL have him top 10 all time
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
Top 3 of all time BBC are talking out there a**.
3 is a bit high, but 5 maybe :-\
Seriously you goota watch the man - it aint just about names on paper! He fought everybody there was to fight - and people that know a lot more than anybody on here ALL have him top 10 all time
I have seen most of his fights but there are much more deserving
Henry Armstrong
Pep
Harry Greb ect.
I heard Greb was excellent.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
Top 3 of all time BBC are talking out there a**.
3 is a bit high, but 5 maybe :-\
Seriously you goota watch the man - it aint just about names on paper! He fought everybody there was to fight - and people that know a lot more than anybody on here ALL have him top 10 all time
I have seen most of his fights but there are much more deserving
Henry Armstrong
Pep
Harry Greb ect.
I heard Greb was excellent.
SRR
Armstrong
Pepp
Ali
Duran
Wouldn't be out of the question
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Re: name the great that made him great...
How about this BIG H would you rate Benny Leonard higher ??
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
How about this BIG H would you rate Benny Leonard higher ??
7th ;)
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Chavez is interesting one because even though his opposition wern't always the best he ruled a long time having a awesome record would he get into top 10 ??
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
Not sure about Jones even though im big fan or Whitaker but others i agree on.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
Not sure about Jones even though im big fan or Whitaker but others i agree on.
Hard to have JCC without Whitaker :-\
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
No he beat Welterweights moving up to Middleweight he never beat a great natural Middleweight ever.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
He only held the lightweight belt for 7 years,unified the WBC and WBA belts,took the welterweight belt from Leonard,and then moves up in weight again to become the light middleweight champ,and then moves up again to take the middleweight belt.
Whadda bum,I tells ya ;D
who did he take the MW belt from because he lost to hagler and hagler was the MW champ?
So then holding a belt for a long time makes him great? top 10? because there are a number of guys that did that...
And still you haven't named the fighter that he beat that made him great? My point is so what if he held the belt for a long time..nowadays fighters aren't given credit for winning belts, or reigning for a long time but rather who they fight...and certainly aren't rated high because they lose to great fighters but rather because they beat great fighters....
and if beating ray leonard 1 out of three times makes him great, then montell griffith must be all world because he beat toney twice took the belt from RJJ (albeit DQ)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
And I could less what a bunch of polls say..I'm asking for you and anybody else on here to decide for yourself...forget reading the results of polls....by what standard do you think he's deserving of top 10 ATG status?
certainly wasn't because of who he beat....
certainly isn't because he beat leonard 1 out of 3....
is it just because he moved up in weight?
i hope not because of his record it's padded with the likes of the tijiauna or panamanian cartel henchmen...
i hope not because he lost to hearns and hagler....
just let me know why you think he's deserving of a top ten ranking....
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
No he beat Welterweights moving up to Middleweight he never beat a great natural Middleweight ever.
Yes he did,Joppy,Holmes,Echols,etc,etc,etc
His career didnt start the day Tito and Oscar tried to move up
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
No he beat Welterweights moving up to Middleweight he never beat a great natural Middleweight ever.
Yes he did,Joppy,Holmes,Echols,etc,etc,etc
His career didnt start the day Tito and Oscar tried to move up
All of those guys you mentioned are just over average not even elite he has never beat a great Middleweight ever if it wasn't for Oscar and Tito natural Welterweights moving up his record would just be as bad as Calzaghes reign is.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
No he beat Welterweights moving up to Middleweight he never beat a great natural Middleweight ever.
Yes he did,Joppy,Holmes,Echols,etc,etc,etc
His career didnt start the day Tito and Oscar tried to move up
All of those guys you mentioned are just over average not even elite he has never beat a great Middleweight ever if it wasn't for Oscar and Tito natural Welterweights moving up his record would just be as bad as Calzaghes reign is.
or durans
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
No he beat Welterweights moving up to Middleweight he never beat a great natural Middleweight ever.
Yes he did,Joppy,Holmes,Echols,etc,etc,etc
His career didnt start the day Tito and Oscar tried to move up
All of those guys you mentioned are just over average not even elite he has never beat a great Middleweight ever if it wasn't for Oscar and Tito natural Welterweights moving up his record would just be as bad as Calzaghes reign is.
Glen Johnson (remember him,beat Jones like a red headed stepchild) as well
Johnson was 32-0 at the time
And last I checked,both Joppy,and Holmes held 1 of the belts in the division
Also Syd Vanderpool in his prime
Howard Eastman,who was 40-1
He did hold the title for 11 years you know
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
He only held the lightweight belt for 7 years,unified the WBC and WBA belts,took the welterweight belt from Leonard,and then moves up in weight again to become the light middleweight champ,and then moves up again to take the middleweight belt.
Whadda bum,I tells ya ;D
who did he take the MW belt from because he lost to hagler and hagler was the MW champ?
So then holding a belt for a long time makes him great? top 10? because there are a number of guys that did that...
And still you haven't named the fighter that he beat that made him great? My point is so what if he held the belt for a long time..nowadays fighters aren't given credit for winning belts, or reigning for a long time but rather who they fight...and certainly aren't rated high because they lose to great fighters but rather because they beat great fighters....
and if beating ray leonard 1 out of three times makes him great, then montell griffith must be all world because he beat toney twice took the belt from RJJ (albeit DQ)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
ESPN – Roberto Duran 6 p4p all time
Panel from the associated boxing press Roberto Duran – number 7 p4p all time
BBC writers poll – Roberto Duran number 3 p4p all time
IBRO is an esteemed group of analysts who are well researched in the history of boxing. The IBRO membership had 30 historians participating in the poll they had Roberto Duran number 7 p4p alltime
The Sun online poll – Roberto Duran number 9 p4p all time
Just a few I picked out - but you won't find any respected poll that doesn't include him.
Maybe JonesMyweather knows more than 99% of the rest of the boxing world :-\
And I could less what a bunch of polls say..I'm asking for you and anybody else on here to decide for yourself...forget reading the results of polls....by what standard do you think he's deserving of top 10 ATG status?
certainly wasn't because of who he beat....
certainly isn't because he beat leonard 1 out of 3....
is it just because he moved up in weight?
i hope not because of his record it's padded with the likes of the tijiauna or panamanian cartel henchmen...
i hope not because he lost to hearns and hagler....
just let me know why you think he's deserving of a top ten ranking....
He took it from Iran Barkley
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Julio Cesar Chavez, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr, Harry Greb, Pernell Whitaker - all these guys have a claim
You could make a case for Hopkins,record holder for title defenses,unified the belts,and was able to move up to beat Tarver at 40
No he beat Welterweights moving up to Middleweight he never beat a great natural Middleweight ever.
Yes he did,Joppy,Holmes,Echols,etc,etc,etc
His career didnt start the day Tito and Oscar tried to move up
All of those guys you mentioned are just over average not even elite he has never beat a great Middleweight ever if it wasn't for Oscar and Tito natural Welterweights moving up his record would just be as bad as Calzaghes reign is.
Glen Johnson (remember him,beat Jones like a red headed stepchild) as well
Johnson was 32-0 at the time
And last I checked,both Joppy,and Holmes held 1 of the belts in the division
Also Syd Vanderpool in his prime
Howard Eastman,who was 40-1
He did hold the title for 11 years you know
Glen Johnson beat Washed up Jones
Joppy and Holmes aren't elite name one good fighter they beat ??
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Johnson had been around the block 9 or 10 times as well when he beat Jones
Joppy held the belt for quite awhile himself,taking it in 96 against undefeated Shinji Takehara,his last title defense before Tito was 27-0 Jonathen Reid,Holmes had had 3 title defense when he ran in to Hopkins as well
So first you say he never fought a middleweight
Then it wasnt any good ones,even though Hopkins was the guy who unified the belts and held his for 11 years
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Johnson had been around the block 9 or 10 times as well when he beat Jones
Joppy held the belt for quite awhile himself,taking it in 96 against undefeated Shinji Takehara,his last title defense before Tito was 27-0 Jonathen Reid,Holmes had had 3 title defense when he ran in to Hopkins as well
So first you say he never fought a middleweight
Then it wasnt any good ones,even though Hopkins was the guy who unified the belts and held his for 11 years
I don't question Hopkins wasn't all time great but he isn't top 10 for certain and most of his opponents were average or only decent he never actually beat great Middleweight only great names he beat was Oscar and Tito and they were well above there natural weight.
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Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Johnson had been around the block 9 or 10 times as well when he beat Jones
Joppy held the belt for quite awhile himself,taking it in 96 against undefeated Shinji Takehara,his last title defense before Tito was 27-0 Jonathen Reid,Holmes had had 3 title defense when he ran in to Hopkins as well
So first you say he never fought a middleweight
Then it wasnt any good ones,even though Hopkins was the guy who unified the belts and held his for 11 years
I don't question Hopkins wasn't all time great but he isn't top 10 for certain and most of his opponents were average or only decent he never actually beat great Middleweight only great names he beat was Oscar and Tito and they were well above there natural weight.
Id say a guy who bracketed his reign as Middleweight champ with wins against very good undefeateds is pretty damned good
The reason Hopkins never gets credit,isnt about wether or not he beat anything you put in front of him,face it,its his style
Younger,he was a clenching infighter,which doesnt sell well
Old hes picking people apart two punches at a time from the outside
But at the end of the day he IS the master at tactics,he tailor made every fight to every fighter.
