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WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Or was he a great Cruiserweight with a respectable Heavyweight record?
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
He WAS great.
He IS pretty damn good.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Or was he a great Cruiserweight with a respectable Heavyweight record?
He does have flaws on his record, but he also has great successes. He was crap against Cooper, Holmes, Moorer, Foreman, Stewart, & Lewis. But was awesome in the first 2 Bowe fights and the 1st Tyson fight. I would still call him a great - but not a top tenner ;)
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Evander looked good and bad depended on which version showed up....As a cruiserweight he was beyond good.....He would have owned that division until he was good and ready to let the title go....Evander will not go down as a top 10 heavyweight but will be an all time pound for pound fighter in the top 25
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
He was the greatest CW ever and a very good HW champion but not a great one
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
is this a serious question? Of course he was a great HW
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Yeah, its a question thats popped up a few times on this forum. Never fully resolved though.
Its just that he's Heavyweight record (pre 2000 if you like) is kinda patchy.
Can you be great yet not particularly dominant and Inconsistant?
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Or was he a great Cruiserweight with a respectable Heavyweight record?
He does have flaws on his record, but he also has great successes. He was crap against Cooper, Holmes, Moorer, Foreman, Stewart, & Lewis. But was awesome in the first 2 Bowe fights and the 1st Tyson fight. I would still call him a great - but not a top tenner ;)
I wouldn't say he looked crap in Cooper or Stewart fights he fought well in both times just he got caught because Holyfield isn't exactly hardest guy to hit he is only man to beat Bowe he beat Tyson and thats where his big success and hw comes right there beating Tyson and he gave Lewis the best hw of 90s 2 of his toughest fights when he was past his prime he is great hw just for his excitement and his wins but i doubt he is top 10.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Great champion, and one of the greatest!!! I am a big fan of this warrior.... A Warrior with a big heart are some of the adjectives that describes Holyfield. I really admire Holyfied. O0
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
He's a great. Don't personally see what's patchy about his record pre 2000. He lost a trilogy to Bowe, fighting with illness in the finale but still giving him all he could handle. Avenged his defeat to Moorer convincingly. Beat Tyson twice, probably the best version of Tyson that was ever beaten. Got a dodgy draw against Lewis in the first fight, but was much better in the rematch, I watched it recently and that's the fight which should have been draw.
In the second best era of boxing (90's) he was second only to Lewis, He's certainly top ten of all time for me.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
I scored the second Lewis fight a win for Evander but never the less he often didn't look good in some wins due to styles. Evander looked good against fighters that came forward and who wanted to mix it up, but not so much against guys who were more defensive minded.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time....  ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
IMO Holyfield won the first fight against Moorer, and even if it says he lost on his record, he gave him hell and also gave him hell while having heart problems, then came back and completely whooped him in the rematch, and i disagree with the Foreman statement, i thought that that fight was classic, it was a very hard fought fight between two fighters that were prepared to put it on the line and well the put on a great fight
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time.... ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
Okay well its safe to assume that he won't :D
Can i ask, were exactly do you also have Tunney & Sullivan placed in your top10?
If you have one of course ;)
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
Frazier higher than Marciano ??
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time.... ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
Okay well its safe to assume that he won't :D
Can i ask, were exactly do you also have Tunney & Sullivan placed in your top10?
If you have one of course ;)
I dont have those guys ranked in my top 10 there Jim Booger ;D ..... I said most have them ranked as a great, I personally think if you want to consider them great then Evander certainly should by those standards...
Regardless of all that Evander is a Legend and a great. No question ;)
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
He is currently the Greatest Crusierweight that there has been.
As a Heavyweight his achievements certainly justify calling him a Great. In my opinion he was the 2nd best Heavyweight of the 90's and that is some achievement as that era was tough.
A Great Heavyweight - Yes.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
Frazier higher than Marciano ??
Marciano has one of the weakest resumes of all HW greats....a washed up louis, 39 yr old walcott, and washed up Moore. I give him the Charles wins as impressive. Then the only real name left is LaStarza. Their first fight is widely considered a dubious decision. Plus I just dont see Rock beating any of the other 9 guys except Frazier. 49-0 is impressive and great KO's help his legacy, but I just feel that he wouldn't have gone undefeated in some of the other eras.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
Frazier higher than Marciano ??
Marciano has one of the weakest resumes of all HW greats....a washed up louis, 39 yr old walcott, and washed up Moore. I give him the Charles wins as impressive. Then the only real name left is LaStarza. Their first fight is widely considered a dubious decision. Plus I just dont see Rock beating any of the other 9 guys except Frazier. 49-0 is impressive and great KO's help his legacy, but I just feel that he wouldn't have gone undefeated in some of the other eras.
Maybe but Marciano has better resume Frazier only good win is Ali and he lost trilogy me personally i don't think he is that high but thats my opinion.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
Frazier higher than Marciano ??
Marciano has one of the weakest resumes of all HW greats....a washed up louis, 39 yr old walcott, and washed up Moore. I give him the Charles wins as impressive. Then the only real name left is LaStarza. Their first fight is widely considered a dubious decision. Plus I just dont see Rock beating any of the other 9 guys except Frazier. 49-0 is impressive and great KO's help his legacy, but I just feel that he wouldn't have gone undefeated in some of the other eras.
Maybe but Marciano has better resume Frazier only good win is Ali and he lost trilogy me personally i don't think he is that high but thats my opinion.
Frazier beat some good fighters in that era make no mistake
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time.... ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
cc. spot on.. Terrific fighter Evander Holyfield.. one of a kind work ethic.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time.... ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
cc. spot on.. Terrific fighter Evander Holyfield.. one of a kind work ethic.
Yep also my favorite fighter of all time ;) CC returned
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time.... ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
cc. spot on.. Terrific fighter Evander Holyfield.. one of a kind work ethic.
Yep also my favorite fighter of all time ;) CC returned
Holyfield vs Tyson was the first boxing fight i've ever saw always admired Holyfield after that i enjoy watching all his fights well ones in his prime anyway especially enjoyed his first fight vs Dwight that was toe to toe slugest at its best should of got fight of the year 1986 and his technical skills were underrated aswell look how quick handed he was sticking and moving against Dwight in the rematch and against James Tillis.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
Frazier higher than Marciano ??
I put Frazier higher then Marciano...Joe was HW champion in the greatest decade of HW boxing ever....Marciano and his best wins are over faded Louis and Moore who was a lh....
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Given his size, what he has done at heavyweight is nothing short of amazing. He fought the best and gave them all a fight beating most. Top 10 heavyweright of all time imo. He had all the elements of a true champion. I rank him higher than Lewis even because he had more disasvantages but never lacked heart.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
No doubt about it. I dont even know why someone has to ask that question.
Is Lewis a great heavyweight?
Was Hagler a great middleweight?
Was Duran a great lightweight?
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Given his size, what he has done at heavyweight is nothing short of amazing. He fought the best and gave them all a fight beating most. Top 10 heavyweright of all time imo. He had all the elements of a true champion. I rank him higher than Lewis even because he had more disasvantages but never lacked heart.
Well imo you shouldn't be rated higher than someone because someone had disadvantages then we might aswell rate Rocky as number 1 then because he had biggest disadvantages out of the lot.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Given his size, what he has done at heavyweight is nothing short of amazing. He fought the best and gave them all a fight beating most. Top 10 heavyweright of all time imo. He had all the elements of a true champion. I rank him higher than Lewis even because he had more disasvantages but never lacked heart.
Well imo you shouldn't be rated higher than someone because someone had disadvantages then we might aswell rate Rocky as number 1 then because he had biggest disadvantages out of the lot.
I disagree cause if Floyd Patterson was a 6'5 240 pound natural heavyweight, he wouldnt be seen like he is. What made Tyson amazing to me was he was usually the much smaller guy but he could overpower these bigger guys. Not many guys Evanders size could trade with Lennox Lewis let alone nearly beat him. And whay made Shannon Briggs so great is that he did it all with a huge disadvantage; a debilitating disease.
;D
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
holyfield is a legend. he was def the greatest crusierweight of all time--he was 2 good 4 cruise--nobody in hell was ever gonna beat him. moved up 2 heavy and was still i think the greatest heavy at that time. he may not be a "boxer" but hes got skill, chin and heart--holyfield is easily a great
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
He makes it in my top ten. W/O out really thinking about it here is mine
Ali
Johnson
Foreman
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Frazier
Marciano
Holyfield
Tyson
Hon. Mention: Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Liston, Tunney, Dempsey
Frazier higher than Marciano ??
Marciano has one of the weakest resumes of all HW greats....a washed up louis, 39 yr old walcott, and washed up Moore. I give him the Charles wins as impressive. Then the only real name left is LaStarza. Their first fight is widely considered a dubious decision. Plus I just dont see Rock beating any of the other 9 guys except Frazier. 49-0 is impressive and great KO's help his legacy, but I just feel that he wouldn't have gone undefeated in some of the other eras.
i say the weakest resume has got 2b jack dempsey--yet he is a "great" as well. actually walcott was 37 when marciano beat him--however joe louis beat a 37 old braddock for the title as well-and walcott is a much better fighter than braddock. every great has gotten a "dubious" decision. louis had a bum of the month club--
i say louis and marciano's resumes are the same as far as opposition goes. would marciano b undefeated in every era....no of course not--but he fought when he fought and owned his era--no1 can take that away from him.
anyway -i like your post its openminded has good points without hating on marciano so CC
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Or was he a great Cruiserweight with a respectable Heavyweight record?
HE was great. A guy with that record and resume.. Great at heavyweight.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Of course Evander is one of Greatest Heavies ever, and the Greatest Cruiser of all time.... ;)
You cant say guys like Tunney, Sullivan were great and say Evander isint... Evander is a legend
Not to mention he isint even finished, HE COULD CONCEIVABLY WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP AT AGE 45
Okay well its safe to assume that he won't :D
Can i ask, were exactly do you also have Tunney & Sullivan placed in your top10?
If you have one of course ;)
I dont have those guys ranked in my top 10 there Jim Booger ;D ..... I said most have them ranked as a great, I personally think if you want to consider them great then Evander certainly should by those standards...
Regardless of all that Evander is a Legend and a great. No question ;)
;)
I'll be honest. I wasn't making chit chat on this, i genuinely couldnt decide on his legacy as a heavyweight.
Im usualy the 1st one to commened a great fighter with a number of losses on his record but basing his greatness on the legacy of Tunney was something that was impossible for me :P
My point being, i was just fishing for a better reason to agree with most of you guys :)
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
yes.
One of the best CW, HW of all time.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Great skill. Has any man done what he has done? There, you've got your answer to whether he was great or not.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
He was a great fighter but I think his weakness if you can call it that was a lack of domination at heavyweight. For a smaller heavyweight to last and fight all those guys which are on his resume is incredible. Even the smaller fights he had were against good guys like Vaugn Bean.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Was Holyfeild Great Was Tommy Cooper funny.
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimboogie
Or was he a great Cruiserweight with a respectable Heavyweight record?
It's thread bumping Friday so here have this Saddobastards ;)
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Re: WAS Holyfield a GREAT heavyweight
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Or was he a great Cruiserweight with a respectable Heavyweight record?
He does have flaws on his record, but he also has great successes. He was crap against Cooper, Holmes, Moorer, Foreman, Stewart, & Lewis. But was awesome in the first 2 Bowe fights and the 1st Tyson fight. I would still call him a great - but not a top tenner ;)
I wouldn't say he looked crap in Cooper or Stewart fights he fought well in both times just he got caught because Holyfield isn't exactly hardest guy to hit he is only man to beat Bowe he beat Tyson and thats where his big success and hw comes right there beating Tyson and
he gave Lewis the best hw of 90s 2 of his toughest fights when he was past his prime he is great hw just for his excitement and his wins but i doubt he is top 10.
lions and tigers and bears, oh my! :o
