Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Funny thing, i was thinking about this in work today(my jobs sucks so i veg alot;) and was gunna post it, forgot and just seen what eubank said about calzaghe...
Throught boxing fighters stock have risen from suffering a loss and coming back... and alot seem to get slated if they have un an blemished record...
Its only now since mayweather just got by the great oscar de la hoya that people really acknowlageing his talents...
Barrera had some ups and downs but hit superstardom from lossing to tapia and coming back...
Maciano is considered a great in the sense of what he done, whislt most people don't rate him as a 'great' boxer - mianly down to the fact he never lost so menaing he never fought anyone who was really good...
I think thats why you have to lose to be a great, lossing shows you are human, that you fought someone out there as good as you, can you came back at another level... anyone other than a devout fan will always question a fighter who has never tasted deafeat; i do it now, sure mayweather has fought and beat some great fighters - yet i still want to see him fight mosley, magarito cotoo if he wins - when realisticaly, beating de la hoya should of been enough for even the biggest hater, and honestly. im not a fan of mayweathe rin person but i think hes a fantastic boxer...
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
No depends on opposition if you beat great opposition and never lose then that makes you even greater imo.
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Theres no real great that went on his entire career undefeated.
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Theres no real great that went on his entire career undefeated.
Marciano did(don't even say he's not a great)
I think it has more to do with fighting through adversity then having to lose.
I use Marciano due to him being undefeated... He would be clearly losing and then a blistering hook would KO a poor bastard... He was fun to watch
People like drama
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Funny thing, i was thinking about this in work today(my jobs sucks so i veg alot;) and was gunna post it, forgot and just seen what eubank said about calzaghe...
Throught boxing fighters stock have risen from suffering a loss and coming back... and alot seem to get slated if they have un an blemished record...
Its only now since mayweather just got by the great oscar de la hoya that people really acknowlageing his talents...
Barrera had some ups and downs but hit superstardom from lossing to tapia and coming back...
Maciano is considered a great in the sense of what he done, whislt most people don't rate him as a 'great' boxer - mianly down to the fact he never lost so menaing he never fought anyone who was really good...
I think thats why you have to lose to be a great, lossing shows you are human, that you fought someone out there as good as you, can you came back at another level... anyone other than a devout fan will always question a fighter who has never tasted deafeat; i do it now, sure mayweather has fought and beat some great fighters - yet i still want to see him fight mosley, magarito cotoo if he wins - when realisticaly, beating de la hoya should of been enough for even the biggest hater, and honestly. im not a fan of mayweathe rin person but i think hes a fantastic boxer...
Barrera didnt loose to tapia ???
.. I suppose he is respected from the junior jones losses when he came back and 'lost' a close decision to morales in the first fight.. But it was sucha great fight and performance that you knew he was back..
And again when he was blown out by pac..But came back and beat morales convincingly in theyr third fight..
Also its not so much that you have to loose..But in alot of unblemished fighters cases..
They have never had the chance to show how much heart they have..
The ones who have either had the defining fights where they had to dig deep, Or have come back from defeat just seem to capture more respect from the fans..
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
I don't think so...i'm starting to belive mayweather will retire undefeated and he's one of the greats !!
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
No, people just say that because they're annoyed that a fighter keeps winning so its just a reason they use to devalue their career rather then appreciate their dominance
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Theres no real great that went on his entire career undefeated.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Ricardo Lopez :)
I only saw him once or twice and wasn't too blown away on showtime when he was dropped but looking at his record he is an atg
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
No, people just say that because they're annoyed that a fighter keeps winning so its just a reason they use to devalue their career rather then appreciate their dominance
That couldn't possibly be it. Floyd and Calzaghe are the two highest profile undefeated boxers in the sport today and no one is looking for any little thing that discredits them. It not like they are the most hated fighters today....... ;D
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
No, people just say that because they're annoyed that a fighter keeps winning so its just a reason they use to devalue their career rather then appreciate their dominance
FFS Maj, what do I say now when you've stolen all my words. Basically, I reckon there are two types of champion who go undefeated. There's your Sven Ottke's who don't fight any major titles and fight in a dreary division. Then there are your Rocky Marciano's who beat everything in their path and never get beaten. I'm still not sure whether Calzaghe will fit into either category, or find himself somewhere in the middle if he goes for the last few fights without a defeat.
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Of course you DON'T have to.
But if you so happen to loose and you bounce back and accomplsih great things thats a plus.
B-Hop, Alexis, R.Marquez all lost their pro debuts.
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
PBF is too young to retire and afraid that somebody would whoop his azz for good and retire that way.
JCC is a fine example of "great" coz he kept on fighting and not busy protecting his record. A real fwocking warrior!
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
PBF is too young to retire and afraid that somebody would whoop his azz for good and retire that way.
JCC is a fine example of "great" coz he kept on fighting and not busy protecting his record. A real fwocking warrior!
Maybe those who do retire undefeated without engaging in any real wars are just looking after their own health, and making sure that they get to enjoy the money that they have made out of the sport. Not great for sports fans who love the real scraps that swing back and forth, but doctors would probably say it was smart considering the damage that can be done.
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
PBF is too young to retire and afraid that somebody would whoop his azz for good and retire that way.
JCC is a fine example of "great" coz he kept on fighting and not busy protecting his record. A real fwocking warrior!
Thats a good point..
And a topic in itself...
Jcc Went was it 90 odd bouts indefeated?.. What would have happened if the beloeved mexican warrior and atg jcc had retired undefeated?
Would he be loved as he is now?
I dont know..But theres just something also about guys who have fought so many bouts..The robinsons, lamotta's jcc's and duran's ..
They gave the fans theyr moneys worth and fought alot!.. And that in a way seems to add to theyr legacy
Its much like the barrera's morales' Toney's of today.. They have fought ALOT..
And this gives them a sort of great feeling about them..
They are utter veterans and until late most had still been on top of theyr game..Mab i beleive stil is..
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
No....not losing at all and beating other greats can do it for it you too
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Alright heres on for you guys...
Mayweather beats cotto his next fight...
People say cotto is overrated..
They shouldnt do because he is not..Mayweather is just that good...
So say this and consider these options...
Mayweather retires.. another feather in his cap and as good as he has been through the years..
So..
Cotto retires.. People are unforgiving of cotto and some will say he was overrated.. Others will say he has no heart etc.. Ala Prince nas
Or.. He continues on .. Regains a world title and continues to beat great fighters.. Not only does cotto's legacy increase...But mayweathers does as cotto is more worthy an opponent having prooved himself..
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Funny thing, i was thinking about this in work today(my jobs sucks so i veg alot;) and was gunna post it, forgot and just seen what eubank said about calzaghe...
:coolclick: Good question...excellent post.
Alright...here's the thing...fuck what Eubank said about Joe...he's been bitter since he got his ass handed to him. Joe's a great fighter & he has fought everyone worth a damn in his division. The only people that he has missed have lost in the following 12 month period of passing Joe on injuries or negotiation disputes.
I have the utmost respect & love for Joe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Throught boxing fighters stock have risen from suffering a loss and coming back... and alot seem to get slated if they have un an blemished record...
True...& when you sit back & look at it...it's bullshit...especially the men that have faced game opposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Its only now since mayweather just got by the great oscar de la hoya that people really acknowlageing his talents...
Floyd suffers the same critique that Calzaghe does. If you'll notice...everyone is always bankin on the next somebody to beat Floyd. First it was Corrales, then Castillo, then Kostya, then Hatton, then Margarito, then Oscar, & now everyone's bankin & hopin on Mosley.
Floyd's a general wizard in the ring & a tool outside of the ring...so I can acknowledge the hate...what I can't go along with are the people that let their hatred of the man get in the way of their love of the boxer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Barrera had some ups and downs but hit superstardom from lossing to tapia and coming back...
I liked Barrera...but for some reason...I could never REALLY back him...maybe it was due to Morales. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Maciano is considered a great in the sense of what he done, whislt most people don't rate him as a 'great' boxer - mianly down to the fact he never lost so menaing he never fought anyone who was really good...
The way I look at it is this...those men that Marciano destroyed...they didn't just come in & let it happen...he did it. He stopped them & that is an impressive thing to go out with 49 wins & 43 ko's...especially when you toss in names such as Joe Louis, Henry Matthews, Ezzard Charles, Ted Lowry, Archie Moore, J.J. Walcott, & Roland LaStarza.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
I think thats why you have to lose to be a great, lossing shows you are human, that you fought someone out there as good as you, can you came back at another level... anyone other than a devout fan will always question a fighter who has never tasted deafeat; i do it now, sure mayweather has fought and beat some great fighters - yet i still want to see him fight mosley, magarito cotoo if he wins - when realisticaly, beating de la hoya should of been enough for even the biggest hater, and honestly. im not a fan of mayweathe rin person but i think hes a fantastic boxer...
Heh heh heh...see what I meant.
Re: Do you have to suffer a loss and come back to be a great?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
Theres no real great that went on his entire career undefeated.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Ricardo Lopez :)
I only saw him once or twice and wasn't too blown away on showtime when he was dropped but looking at his record he is an atg
Lopez ??? yea all time great guy
