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Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Think it would go the distance with Gene getting a split decsion over johnson
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
For me Jack Johnson is over rated , he was a good boxer maybe the first Heavy weight "boxer" in a time of brawlers.
Tunney was far better than him and wins comfortable ud.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
I reckon Johnson wins. He was an excellent boxer and a big guy. Tunney was beaten by a middleweight don't forget and most of his opponents were no bigger than 190lb.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Technically, Tunney looks the better but Yeah Jack was a big lad compared to the guys Tunney fought, so who konws?
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Bilbo has a good point Jack did have trouble becoming motivated for somwe fights but in Jacks defense a lot had to do with the fact even on his worst day the best of that era could not be decent sparring partners for the Galveston Giant.......
It was not until after a long long layoff and age Johnson was beaten soundly....When in shape and prepared Johnson was a 100 yrs ahead of his time.....Tough fight for 6 or so rds then Johnson imposes his will on Tunney for the win......
That is not meant to take anything away from Gene though...Tunney was a great boxer and tough as nails
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Bilbo has a good point Jack did have trouble becoming motivated for somwe fights but in Jacks defense a lot had to do with the fact even on his worst day the best of that era could not be decent sparring partners for the Galveston Giant.......
It was not until after a long long layoff and age Johnson was beaten soundly....When in shape and prepared Johnson was a 100 yrs ahead of his time.....Tough fight for 6 or so rds then Johnson imposes his will on Tunney for the win......
That is not meant to take anything away from Gene though...Tunney was a great boxer and tough as nails
Nice to see another Johnson fan :coolclick:
We also have to remember that when he lost to Willard he was stopped in the 27th round and was winning up to the 15th.
Under any rules post 1930's he would have won and nowadays there's probably not a heavyweight around who could even go 20 rounds let alone 27.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Yes i have watched his fights and his style would be no good in newer era simple as yes maybe if he had training in 70s to change his style but who knows if it would of been better for him to completey change his style all im saying is he would lost to all of the modern greats because his style is no good for newer era like 60s 70s 80s 90s ect.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Bilbo, Newton was 300 years ahead of his time cc for the anology
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Will all due respect to Tunney I'd have to go with Johnson on this one. Johnson was the bigger man and he could move very well. Gene Tunney had trouble with Harry Greb I believe is because of Greb's footwork and pressure. I can see Johnson as giving him a lot of trouble with his footwork. Besides Johnson was hard to hit, could feint and was often the bigger man in his fights, and he would be so in a fight with Tunney.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Big Jack,superior footwork,superior power,and its not like hed have been fighting that turn of the century style if hed started in the 30s
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
Athleticism wasn't what made Johnson great, it was a masterful understanding of the sweet science of the defensive arts. No matter what era he would have fought in his intuitive understanding of boxing would have made him a nightmare for anybody to face.
How anyone could possibly think his style wouldn't be any good today is completely beyond me to honest ???
Can anyone seriously imagine Sam Peter, Oleg Maskaev, Shannon Briggs and the like having a fucking cool about how to unlock his defense? He'd make most of today's heavies look silly.
I'd fancy his chances against any fighter who ever lived.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Bilbo, Newton was 300 years ahead of his time cc for the anology
Thanks Scrap cc returned , and coming from someone who was born contemporary with Newton that means a lot :D
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
By the way has anybody seen the Jack Johnson documentary? It's was really good, I can't remember who was the guy that taught him his finer points while he was in jail.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris N.
By the way has anybody seen the Jack Johnson documentary? It's was really good, I can't remember who was the guy that taught him his finer points while he was in jail.
Which one?
I just watched one recently,but I cant remember the name of it
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris N.
By the way has anybody seen the Jack Johnson documentary? It's was really good, I can't remember who was the guy that taught him his finer points while he was in jail.
Yes I have it on DVD, it's called Unforgivable Blackness and was directed by Ken Burns.
The guy you are referring to was Joe Choynski. He knocked Johnson out in a fight in which both were arrested and put in prison for a month or so. Choynski then trained Johnson whilst they were inside.
It's quite apt really that Choynski was a Jew (historically the most hated race/nation of peoples who have ever lived) seeing as no normal white man would have wanted to befriend a negro and many boxers refused to even fight them.
The climate of hate that Johnson lived in is just something you can't even imagine today. Even the papers were openly racist about Johnson.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
I believe that Tunney had tougher opposition then Jack johnson did and beat bigger names
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I believe that Tunney had tougher opposition then Jack johnson did and beat bigger names
Tunney didnt have to fight the audience,and the press,along with the fighter in front of him
There were riots after he beat Jeffries
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Didn't Jack Dempsey duck Jack Johnson ???
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I believe that Tunney had tougher opposition then Jack johnson did and beat bigger names
Tunney didnt have to fight the audience,and the press,along with the fighter in front of him
There were riots after he beat Jeffries
:coolclick:
Good point. Jack Johnson used to carry fighters for 15 rounds or so to ensure there was enough footage for the fights to be screened at the cinemas.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Oh come off it! ;D
That smells of bedtime fairy tales! ::**
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I believe that Tunney had tougher opposition then Jack johnson did and beat bigger names
Tunney didnt have to fight the audience,and the press,along with the fighter in front of him
There were riots after he beat Jeffries
:coolclick:
Good point. Jack Johnson used to carry fighters for 15 rounds or so to ensure there was enough footage for the fights to be screened at the cinemas.
cc back,he probably doesnt lose to Willard if he hadnt punched himself out
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
did Jack Dempsey duck Jack Johnson?
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
did Jack Dempsey duck Jack Johnson?
He refused to fight any black fighters
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
did Jack Dempsey duck Jack Johnson?
He refused to fight any black fighters
Harry WIlls could have beat him.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris N.
By the way has anybody seen the Jack Johnson documentary? It's was really good, I can't remember who was the guy that taught him his finer points while he was in jail.
Yes I have it on DVD, it's called Unforgivable Blackness and was directed by Ken Burns.
The guy you are referring to was Joe Choynski. He knocked Johnson out in a fight in which both were arrested and put in prison for a month or so. Choynski then trained Johnson whilst they were inside.
It's quite apt really that Choynski was a Jew (historically the most hated race/nation of peoples who have ever lived) seeing as no normal white man would have wanted to befriend a negro and many boxers refused to even fight them.
The climate of hate that Johnson lived in is just something you can't even imagine today. Even the papers were openly racist about Johnson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris N.
By the way has anybody seen the Jack Johnson documentary? It's was really good, I can't remember who was the guy that taught him his finer points while he was in jail.
Yes I have it on DVD, it's called Unforgivable Blackness and was directed by Ken Burns.
The guy you are referring to was Joe Choynski. He knocked Johnson out in a fight in which both were arrested and put in prison for a month or so. Choynski then trained Johnson whilst they were inside.
It's quite apt really that Choynski was a Jew (historically the most hated race/nation of peoples who have ever lived) seeing as no normal white man would have wanted to befriend a negro and many boxers refused to even fight them.
The climate of hate that Johnson lived in is just something you can't even imagine today. Even the papers were openly racist about Johnson.
:coolclick: Thanks for that Bilbo. Jack Johnson was a tough game fighter before he took in what he could learn from Choynski, he had to endure what a lot of black fighters had to go through, the battle royal, and crooked promoters, it's remarkable how he overcame it although he still had to do what he had to do. It could well be the reason why he was so rebellious by his nature, all the pressure and circumstances of the time.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
Athleticism wasn't what made Johnson great, it was a masterful understanding of the sweet science of the defensive arts. No matter what era he would have fought in his intuitive understanding of boxing would have made him a nightmare for anybody to face.
How anyone could possibly think his style wouldn't be any good today is completely beyond me to honest ???
Can anyone seriously imagine Sam Peter, Oleg Maskaev, Shannon Briggs and the like having a F****** cool about how to unlock his defense? He'd make most of today's heavies look silly.
I'd fancy his chances against any fighter who ever lived.
When did i say in todays era ?? i clearly stated i was on about 90s 80s 70s ect.
And he would lose to the following
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Louis
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
Athleticism wasn't what made Johnson great, it was a masterful understanding of the sweet science of the defensive arts. No matter what era he would have fought in his intuitive understanding of boxing would have made him a nightmare for anybody to face.
How anyone could possibly think his style wouldn't be any good today is completely beyond me to honest ???
Can anyone seriously imagine Sam Peter, Oleg Maskaev, Shannon Briggs and the like having a F****** cool about how to unlock his defense? He'd make most of today's heavies look silly.
I'd fancy his chances against any fighter who ever lived.
When did i say in todays era ?? i clearly stated i was on about 90s 80s 70s ect.
And he would lose to the following
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Louis
I'd fancy him to beat Tyson, Liston, Luis, Bowe and Foreman. Lennox Lewis and Ali would have been his hardest fights and Holmes. But I can't seriously see how you can think he wouldn't have lived in any of those eras ???
Johnson was the Ray Robinson of the heavyweight division. It's fighters like Johnson, Willie Pep, Ray Robinson etc who were the innovators and inspirations for all the fighters that came after them.
Johnson was light years ahead of his contemporaries.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
Athleticism wasn't what made Johnson great, it was a masterful understanding of the sweet science of the defensive arts. No matter what era he would have fought in his intuitive understanding of boxing would have made him a nightmare for anybody to face.
How anyone could possibly think his style wouldn't be any good today is completely beyond me to honest ???
Can anyone seriously imagine Sam Peter, Oleg Maskaev, Shannon Briggs and the like having a F****** cool about how to unlock his defense? He'd make most of today's heavies look silly.
I'd fancy his chances against any fighter who ever lived.
When did i say in todays era ?? i clearly stated i was on about 90s 80s 70s ect.
And he would lose to the following
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Louis
I'd fancy him to beat Tyson, Liston, Luis, Bowe and Foreman. Lennox Lewis and Ali would have been his hardest fights and Holmes. But I can't seriously see how you can think he wouldn't have lived in any of those eras ???
Johnson was the Ray Robinson of the heavyweight division. It's fighters like Johnson, Willie Pep, Ray Robinson etc who were the innovators and inspirations for all the fighters that came after them.
Johnson was light years ahead of his contemporaries.
Well its pretty easy why he wouldn't his style was of olden time boxing his style would not fare well against skilled hws of 70s 80s and 90s plus they are much bigger and no he wasn't the Sugar Ray Robinson of hw division Robinson didn't have olden time style he was skilled fast and powerful and had similar style to young generations of boxers bit like Ray Leonard or ect Johnson on other hand was skilled but really and truthfully his style is very old boxing style that would not fare well against fighters i mentioned Lewis would beat him down so would Ali and Foreman ect i don't see how you can think he would give them fighters tough time or even beat them boxing has come along way Johnson was excellent for his time but sport has moved on and his style against elites of 70s 80s and 90s he would get bad beat down im sorry to say.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
Athleticism wasn't what made Johnson great, it was a masterful understanding of the sweet science of the defensive arts. No matter what era he would have fought in his intuitive understanding of boxing would have made him a nightmare for anybody to face.
How anyone could possibly think his style wouldn't be any good today is completely beyond me to honest ???
Can anyone seriously imagine Sam Peter, Oleg Maskaev, Shannon Briggs and the like having a F****** cool about how to unlock his defense? He'd make most of today's heavies look silly.
I'd fancy his chances against any fighter who ever lived.
When did i say in todays era ?? i clearly stated i was on about 90s 80s 70s ect.
And he would lose to the following
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Louis
I'd fancy him to beat Tyson, Liston, Luis, Bowe and Foreman. Lennox Lewis and Ali would have been his hardest fights and Holmes. But I can't seriously see how you can think he wouldn't have lived in any of those eras ???
Johnson was the Ray Robinson of the heavyweight division. It's fighters like Johnson, Willie Pep, Ray Robinson etc who were the innovators and inspirations for all the fighters that came after them.
Johnson was light years ahead of his contemporaries.
Well its pretty easy why he wouldn't his style was of olden time boxing his style would not fare well against skilled hws of 70s 80s and 90s plus they are much bigger and no he wasn't the Sugar Ray Robinson of hw division Robinson didn't have olden time style he was skilled fast and powerful and had similar style to young generations of boxers bit like Ray Leonard or ect Johnson on other hand was skilled but really and truthfully his style is very old boxing style that would not fare well against fighters i mentioned Lewis would beat him down so would Ali and Foreman ect i don't see how you can think he would give them fighters tough time or even beat them boxing has come along way Johnson was excellent for his time but sport has moved on and his style against elites of 70s 80s and 90s he would get bad beat down im sorry to say.
I don't understand you at all? Johnson was lightyears AHEAD of his time so why would you think that if he fought in the 70's that he would fight the way people fought 50 years before ???
If Johnson would have fought in the 70's he'd have been an innovator then, fighting with a defense tighter than B Hop.
Again I go back to my previous analogy. If Galilleo lived today he wouldn't be studying the universe looking through a telescope built in the 1500's so why would you assume that Jack Johnson would be fighting as if boxing had only been invented 30 years or so before?
I'll give you a modern example. Look at Floyd. His defensive skills will doubtless inspire some of the best boxers of the next generation one of whom may well go on to improve his technique. Does that mean that if Floyd were to have fought in a future era that he wouldn't have been able to learn those skills? Of course not it's absurd to even think that. Floyd would have been just as talented in any era. He has the ability to master the boxing fundamentals and fight with the best possible defensive style for his era. If he fought in a different era where boxers had different styles he would have mastered a defensive strategy suitable for that era.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Bilbo has a good point Jack did have trouble becoming motivated for somwe fights but in Jacks defense a lot had to do with the fact even on his worst day the best of that era could not be decent sparring partners for the Galveston Giant.......
It was not until after a long long layoff and age Johnson was beaten soundly....When in shape and prepared Johnson was a 100 yrs ahead of his time.....Tough fight for 6 or so rds then Johnson imposes his will on Tunney for the win......
That is not meant to take anything away from Gene though...Tunney was a great boxer and tough as nails
Nice to see another Johnson fan :coolclick:
We also have to remember that when he lost to Willard he was stopped in the 27th round and was winning up to the 15th.
Under any rules post 1930's he would have won and nowadays there's probably not a heavyweight around who could even go 20 rounds let alone 27.
CC# 867.....And your right no HW hell I will go on a limb and say 95% of the guys today period could not go that long...And with the gloves they used as well...I don't see it
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
Bilbo has a good point Jack did have trouble becoming motivated for somwe fights but in Jacks defense a lot had to do with the fact even on his worst day the best of that era could not be decent sparring partners for the Galveston Giant.......
It was not until after a long long layoff and age Johnson was beaten soundly....When in shape and prepared Johnson was a 100 yrs ahead of his time.....Tough fight for 6 or so rds then Johnson imposes his will on Tunney for the win......
That is not meant to take anything away from Gene though...Tunney was a great boxer and tough as nails
Nice to see another Johnson fan :coolclick:
We also have to remember that when he lost to Willard he was stopped in the 27th round and was winning up to the 15th.
Under any rules post 1930's he would have won and nowadays there's probably not a heavyweight around who could even go 20 rounds let alone 27.
CC# 867.....And your right no HW hell I will go on a limb and say 95% of the guys today period could not go that long...And with the gloves they used as well...I don't see it
The only reason he lost that fight was going for the knockout,it was 105 degrees in the ring,and he just punched himself out,not to mention Willard was a counter puncher,who just started unleashing bombs on Johnsons body in the 20s
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Willard was a what?
;D I think your giving the big lump far far too much credit.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Willard was a what?
;D I think your giving the big lump far far too much credit.
Don't knock Jess Willard. In his own way he was just as much an innovator as Johnson.
I'd go so far to say that if there had been no Jess Willard there would have been no Primo Carnera.
Even the great Nicolai Valuev owes a lot that former cowboy.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Johnson knew the sweet science down to a tee. Johnson is over-rated but is till top 50 of all-time. If Johnson was motivated,in top shape and the fight was over 15 or 12 rounds Johnson would win a close UD. Tunney never thought some one who was as big as Jack Johnson. Tunney's style was perfectly suited to smaller brawlers like Jack Dempsey, i dont think he could deal with Johnson.
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'm a big Jack Johnson fan and reckon he could win this. He did struggle to get motivated for fights though.
A motivated Johnson would have been trouble for any fighter in history imo.
Even Larry Holmes said that he felt the only fighter in history who he would have struggled to beat was Jack Johnson.
Well Holmes must of been being nice to Johnson because no way Holmes would of struggled with Johnson he has very old boxing style that wouldn't work in newer eras Tunney by decision.
Have you ever even watched Johnson fight? Most fighters couldn't even lay a glove on him.
He was at least 50 years ahead of his time. If he would have lived and fought in another era he would have mastered the current level of boxing knowledge and built upon it again.
Do you think if Gallileo or Newton lived today they would be crap scientists and have less understanding of physics than the average high school student?
Of course not, they would absorb all of today's knowledge and build upon it. They would have been brilliant visonaries in any era, and so would have Jack Johnson.
Nice point but im not sure if Intelligence and Athleticism go hand in hand?
Athleticism wasn't what made Johnson great, it was a masterful understanding of the sweet science of the defensive arts. No matter what era he would have fought in his intuitive understanding of boxing would have made him a nightmare for anybody to face.
How anyone could possibly think his style wouldn't be any good today is completely beyond me to honest ???
Can anyone seriously imagine Sam Peter, Oleg Maskaev, Shannon Briggs and the like having a F****** cool about how to unlock his defense? He'd make most of today's heavies look silly.
I'd fancy his chances against any fighter who ever lived.
When did i say in todays era ?? i clearly stated i was on about 90s 80s 70s ect.
And he would lose to the following
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Lennox Lewis
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Louis
I'd fancy him to beat Tyson, Liston, Luis, Bowe and Foreman. Lennox Lewis and Ali would have been his hardest fights and Holmes. But I can't seriously see how you can think he wouldn't have lived in any of those eras ???
Johnson was the Ray Robinson of the heavyweight division. It's fighters like Johnson, Willie Pep, Ray Robinson etc who were the innovators and inspirations for all the fighters that came after them.
Johnson was light years ahead of his contemporaries.
Well its pretty easy why he wouldn't his style was of olden time boxing his style would not fare well against skilled hws of 70s 80s and 90s plus they are much bigger and no he wasn't the Sugar Ray Robinson of hw division Robinson didn't have olden time style he was skilled fast and powerful and had similar style to young generations of boxers bit like Ray Leonard or ect Johnson on other hand was skilled but really and truthfully his style is very old boxing style that would not fare well against fighters i mentioned Lewis would beat him down so would Ali and Foreman ect i don't see how you can think he would give them fighters tough time or even beat them boxing has come along way Johnson was excellent for his time but sport has moved on and his style against elites of 70s 80s and 90s he would get bad beat down im sorry to say.
I don't understand you at all? Johnson was lightyears AHEAD of his time so why would you think that if he fought in the 70's that he would fight the way people fought 50 years before ???
If Johnson would have fought in the 70's he'd have been an innovator then, fighting with a defense tighter than B Hop.
Again I go back to my previous analogy. If Galilleo lived today he wouldn't be studying the universe looking through a telescope built in the 1500's so why would you assume that Jack Johnson would be fighting as if boxing had only been invented 30 years or so before?
I'll give you a modern example. Look at Floyd. His defensive skills will doubtless inspire some of the best boxers of the next generation one of whom may well go on to improve his technique. Does that mean that if Floyd were to have fought in a future era that he wouldn't have been able to learn those skills? Of course not it's absurd to even think that. Floyd would have been just as talented in any era. He has the ability to master the boxing fundamentals and fight with the best possible defensive style for his era. If he fought in a different era where boxers had different styles he would have mastered a defensive strategy suitable for that era.
Its totally different boxing has pretty much reached its limit like running Johnson has the old boxing style and you think he could beat modern greats who are much bigger and more athletic like Ali Holmes ect i'll give you an example prime Roy Jones was almost perfect in speed and power its totally different boxing has come along way since the old boxing in late 1800s to early 1900s
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Re: Jack Johnson vs Gene Tunney
Ice,Jack was between 6'1" and 6'3"
Now give him the same training techniques,and the same fighting techniques
A frightening thought
