-
Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
There have been so many great lightweights so I'm wondering where you would put him I would put him around 15-20ish because there are so many names Duran, Benny Leonard, Whitaker, Dela Hoya, Mosley, Mayweather, Armstrong, De Jesus and the list goes on, but I think Castillo was very underrated, and a deserves to crack the top 20 ATG lightweights, and what would be your top 20 in general at LW?
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
There have been so many great lightweights so I'm wondering where you would put him I would put him around 15-20ish because there are so many names Duran, Benny Leonard, Whitaker, Dela Hoya, Mosley, Mayweather, Armstrong, De Jesus and the list goes on, but I think Castillo was very underrated, and a deserves to crack the top 20 ATG lightweights, and what would be your top 20 in general at LW?
I wouldn't put him in the 15-20. I would put Edwin Rosario over him, Ray Mancini over him. Alexis Arguello over him. Jose Luis Ramirez over him. He had a great fight with Corrales, but to rate him high is a different issue. Camacho, Boza Edwards. There have been alot of lightweights who were good.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Not sure exactly where but taking a quick shot at it I would say somewhere around 25.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
There have been so many great lightweights so I'm wondering where you would put him I would put him around 15-20ish because there are so many names Duran, Benny Leonard, Whitaker, Dela Hoya, Mosley, Mayweather, Armstrong, De Jesus and the list goes on, but I think Castillo was very underrated, and a deserves to crack the top 20 ATG lightweights, and what would be your top 20 in general at LW?
I have De La Hoya rated on another div.
Same for PBF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
I wouldn't put him in the 15-20. I would put Edwin Rosario over him, Ray Mancini over him. Alexis Arguello over him. Jose Luis Ramirez over him. He had a great fight with Corrales, but to rate him high is a different issue. Camacho, Boza Edwards. There have been alot of lightweights who were good.
I have Alexis rated on another div.
Bozas best win at Lightweight was against T. Alli he lost both title shots he had.
I would def. rate JLC higher then Camacho.
I agree on rating Edwin and Mancini higher then JLC.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Ranking fighters is hard for me.. Its so subjective.. Castillo has a body attack that could cash anyone out at lightweight , on any given night.. Match him up with 20 all time great lightweights and he is gonna win his share of matches, you can bank on it.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
I think he's underrated. I definitely wouldn't put a guy like Mancini above him.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Castillo is a good fighter. He doesn't deserve inclusion on any type of all-time list.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Castillo is a good fighter. He doesn't deserve inclusion on any type of all-time list.
Why?
And to brothers who say he is top 20,any chance of a list? I'm just interested because I don't think I even know a top 20 list!
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I think he's underrated. I definitely wouldn't put a guy like Mancini above him.
Neither would I.
The lightweights are very strong though. I mean just going to the 40's there have to be 5 or 6 lightweights there that figure into the top 20 in Ike Williams (whom I think is one of the more underrated fighters ever), Tony Canzonori, Beau Jack, Sammy Angott and their whole cast. Lightweight has been pretty shallow in the number of great fighters in the recent times really, but Castillo has clearly been one of the best. I'd probably have him just inside the top 20. He's a tough fighter, you always know what you are getting with him and he has one of the better body attacks ever in the division.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Castillo will be appreciated more the longer he's been retired. Just like most other fighters.
He's beaten Corrales, Casamayor, Stevie Johnston, and some other solid guys, and gave PBF his toughest fight. I wouldn't rate Rosario over him either. He's clearly a Hall of Famer given the types of fighters that have been getting in lately.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I think he's underrated. I definitely wouldn't put a guy like Mancini above him.
Neither would I.
The lightweights are very strong though. I mean just going to the 40's there have to be 5 or 6 lightweights there that figure into the top 20 in Ike Williams (whom I think is one of the more underrated fighters ever), Tony Canzonori, Beau Jack, Sammy Angott and their whole cast. Lightweight has been pretty shallow in the number of great fighters in the recent times really, but Castillo has clearly been one of the best. I'd probably have him just inside the top 20. He's a tough fighter, you always know what you are getting with him and he has one of the better body attacks ever in the division.
Nice post,I really like Canzonori,was watching 3 of his fights the other day(I think it was some ESPN some stuff?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Castillo will be appreciated more the longer he's been retired. Just like most other fighters.
He's beaten Corrales, Casamayor, Stevie Johnston, and some other solid guys, and gave PBF his toughest fight. I wouldn't rate Rosario over him either. He's clearly a Hall of Famer given the types of fighters that have been getting in lately.
I agree with that. Castillo is already one of the best fighters of this generation and one of the most under rated imo so you're right,in hindsight,we'll look back and see that he fought some of the best fighters of this generation and beat quite a few of them.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
If you can Gamo, get some Ike Williams specifically his fights with Beau Jack or Tony Canzonori. One of the more entertaining fighters ever imo.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Castillo is already one of the best fighters of this generation
Roughly what time period are you using to define "this generation"? 15 years? 20? 10?
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I think he's underrated. I definitely wouldn't put a guy like Mancini above him.
I would. Mancini was pretty good. He went 13 rounds with Alexis Arguello and beat a worn out Chacon but beat him good. He won the title from Frias in a war. If Mancini is not better than Castillo he is more iconic. Mancini just seems to have been more significant in the history of the division that Castillo. Castillo's claim to fame is the Corrales fight, but my guess is that Hatton will beat Castillo in about 8 or 9 rounds.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Castillo is already one of the best fighters of this generation
Roughly what time period are using to define "this generation"? 15 years? 20? 10?
Hmmm....yeah,I'd say he 15-20 years...
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
If you can Gamo, get some Ike Williams specifically his fights with Beau Jack or Tony Canzonori. One of the more entertaining fighters ever imo.
I have the fight with Beau Jack but not with Canzonori. I have yet to see it though.Is it a good fight?
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Castillo is already one of the best fighters of this generation
Roughly what time period are using to define "this generation"? 15 years? 20? 10?
Hmmm....yeah,I'd say he 15-20 years...
Whitaker
Jones
Mayweather
Holyfield
Winky
Trinidad
Oscar
Hopkins
Lennox Lewis
Chavez
Mosley
Morales
Barrera
Marquez (both)
Ricardo Lopez
Pacquiao
Toney
Tyson
That was real quick off the top of my head. I could come up with several more no problem if I really thought about it. He's not even Top 20 or 25 of this generation.
He's a good fighter, but that's it. His claim to fame is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even make weight.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Castillo is already one of the best fighters of this generation
Roughly what time period are using to define "this generation"? 15 years? 20? 10?
Hmmm....yeah,I'd say he 15-20 years...
Whitaker
Jones
Mayweather
Holyfield
Winky
Trinidad
Oscar
Hopkins
Lennox Lewis
Chavez
Mosley
Morales
Barrera
Marquez (both)
Ricardo Lopez
Pacquiao
Toney
Tyson
That was real quick off the top of my head. I could come up with several more no problem if I really thought about it. He's not even Top 20 or 25 of this generation.
I don't feel that Castillo is in the top of the class for all lightweights in history. To even think he is anywhere near Whitaker or Chavez is sort of ridiculous. I understand how people love his fight with Corrales and it was one of the top fights ever, but that does not rate him a top lightweight ever. I would not put him in a top 30 to be honest.. There are some really deserving guys who should be there.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I think he's underrated. I definitely wouldn't put a guy like Mancini above him.
I would. Mancini was pretty good. He went 13 rounds with Alexis Arguello and beat a worn out Chacon but beat him good. He won the title from Frias in a war. If Mancini is not better than Castillo he is more iconic. Mancini just seems to have been more significant in the history of the division that Castillo. Castillo's claim to fame is the Corrales fight, but my guess is that Hatton will beat Castillo in about 8 or 9 rounds.
I think Castillo's overall resume is clearly better. I don't put too much into the iconic status when rating a guy, that's just me. And lets face it, with Mancini, at least some of that was the fact that he was a white guy from Ohio who had a pleasing style. Who had the better overall career is what matters to me, and I'd rate Castillo's over Mancini's clearly. Not too mention I think Castillo would beat Mancini more often than not, but that's just an opinion.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
Tszyu and Carbajal are two obvious ones that I forgot the first time around. Camacho might be up there too.
Like I said before, Castillo is a nice fighter. He's had a good career. But his crowning achievement is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even bother to make weight.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
Tszyu and Carbajal are two obvious ones that I forgot the first time around. Camacho might be up there too.
Like I said before, Castillo is a nice fighter. He's had a good career. But his crowning achievement is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even bother to make weight.
You make your points well but aside from the guys you have mentioned,JLC could be up there too. He has beaten Lazcano,Bazan,Stevie Johnston,gave PBF his toughest fight and arguable beat him,beat Corrales,Joel Casamayor and if he beats Hatton too,thats pretty darn impressive.
I'm not saying hes an ATG of any kind and may be I was pushing it saying he was one of the best of this generation but his accomplishments are not to be looked down upon. His list of fights is like a whos who at lightweight from this generation.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
Tszyu and Carbajal are two obvious ones that I forgot the first time around. Camacho might be up there too.
Like I said before, Castillo is a nice fighter. He's had a good career. But his crowning achievement is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even bother to make weight.
I guess its a bit off the point but how hard is it really to break down Tsyzu's resume. We all think of him as this great fighter, and he was, but what are his best wins? Judah? The most mocked boxer of our generation. Its still a good win, but its not a great win. Other than that, Mitchell, Hurtado, Ruelas, Tackie, Gonzalez, ancient Chavez. Its not bad, its not murderers row. I can't say he has three wins as good as Johnston, Casamayor, and Corrales, leven eaving out the fact that Castillo could have easily gotten a win over PBF the first time out. Its hard to say if he's one of the best of our generation, but I guess I rate him higher than you do.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
Tszyu and Carbajal are two obvious ones that I forgot the first time around. Camacho might be up there too.
Like I said before, Castillo is a nice fighter. He's had a good career. But his crowning achievement is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even bother to make weight.
I guess its a bit off the point but how hard is it really to break down Tsyzu's resume. We all think of him as this great fighter, and he was, but what are his best wins? Judah? The most mocked boxer of our generation. Its still a good win, but its not a great win. Other than that, Mitchell, Hurtado, Ruelas, Tackie, Gonzalez, ancient Chavez. Its not bad, its not murderers row. I can't say he has three wins as good as Johnston, Casamayor, and Corrales, leven eaving out the fact that Castillo could have easily gotten a win over PBF the first time out. Its hard to say if he's one of the best of our generation, but I guess I rate him higher than you do.
Totally agree.CC in 24. I think I was a bit rash in stating he was one of the best of this generation,only time will tell but his resume speaks for itself and like I said,outside the first list of guys you mentioned,JLC could be one of the best of the rest.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
I think he's underrated. I definitely wouldn't put a guy like Mancini above him.
I would. Mancini was pretty good. He went 13 rounds with Alexis Arguello and beat a worn out Chacon but beat him good. He won the title from Frias in a war. If Mancini is not better than Castillo he is more iconic. Mancini just seems to have been more significant in the history of the division that Castillo. Castillo's claim to fame is the Corrales fight, but my guess is that Hatton will beat Castillo in about 8 or 9 rounds.
I think Castillo's overall resume is clearly better. I don't put too much into the iconic status when rating a guy, that's just me. And lets face it, with Mancini, at least some of that was the fact that he was a white guy from Ohio who had a pleasing style. Who had the better overall career is what matters to me, and I'd rate Castillo's over Mancini's clearly. Not too mention I think Castillo would beat Mancini more often than not, but that's just an opinion.
I don't see Castillo beating Mancini. Mancini was good with the aggressive guys who would come to him. Look how he beat Jose Luis Ramirez.. Mancini had trouble more with the guys like Arguello or Bramble who would counterpunch him and exploit his size. He really was in my mind a small lightweight in stature, yet in physical strength he was a strong guy. Mancini I think would have probably won a decision against Castillo. It would have been a good fight. That is my prediction.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
Tszyu and Carbajal are two obvious ones that I forgot the first time around. Camacho might be up there too.
Like I said before, Castillo is a nice fighter. He's had a good career. But his crowning achievement is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even bother to make weight.
I guess its a bit off the point but how hard is it really to break down Tsyzu's resume. We all think of him as this great fighter, and he was, but what are his best wins? Judah? The most mocked boxer of our generation. Its still a good win, but its not a great win. Other than that, Mitchell, Hurtado, Ruelas, Tackie, Gonzalez, ancient Chavez. Its not bad, its not murderers row. I can't say he has three wins as good as Johnston, Casamayor, and Corrales, leven eaving out the fact that Castillo could have easily gotten a win over PBF the first time out. Its hard to say if he's one of the best of our generation, but I guess I rate him higher than you do.
When talking about Tszyu's resume remember 50% of all his fights were against World Champions and he beat a former World Champion in only his 4th pro fight! A lot of guys ducked him too!
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Castillo will be remembered as a big part of an era, but not the best of his era. One thing that will go down for all of time is his first fight with Corrales R.I.P, which is worth a hell of a lot in my opinion.
-
Re: Where do you put Castillo all time as a lighweight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Who are the other fighters outside that list SweetPea.?
Tszyu and Carbajal are two obvious ones that I forgot the first time around. Camacho might be up there too.
Like I said before, Castillo is a nice fighter. He's had a good career.
But his crowning achievement is beating Corrales on a night when he didn't even bother to make weight.
I disagree with that, IMO his crowning moment was his win against Casamayor, and what should of been his even bigger crowning moment was the first Mayweather fight :lickish: everyone knows Mayweather got a gift.
