It wasn't overt, but Ndou got screwed...

First, let me say that I don't think Ndou could have beaten Malignaggi tonight regardless of who was officiating - Paulie was too quick for him and showed great defense and some nice combinations.

BUT, Eddie Cotton did flat out the worse job I have ever seen by a professional referee. He broke the fighters before they were even IN a clinch... He effectively eliminated the possibility of any infighting AT ALL. Ndou's strategy was obviously to get inside the faster Malignaggi and rough him up on the inside - the referee just did not allow any infighting to take place whatsoever. Contrast that with Dave Parris handling of Kostya Tszyu's fight with Ricky Hatton - he took an eternity to break them up and let Hatton maul Tszyu stupid on the inside.

If Ndou had been allowed to fight on the inside I don't think he would have won but the fight sure as hell would have been a bit closer.

Infighting is a (HUGE) part of boxing. Guys like Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez and countless others would not have been heard of if they were not allowed to rough guys up inside.

I have never seen boxers being broken as quickly as they were tonight EVER. It was laughable.

Eddie Cotton had obviously been given his instructions from DiBella and followed them to the letter.

And taking a point from Ndou was disgraceful - if Malignaggi is going to dip his head down at every opportunity then Ndou is within his rights to hit him there. I've seen plenty of fights where Malignaggi would have been the one getting warnings for constantly putting his head down...

All in all Paulie was the better fighter on the night - but that fight should have been a far better and closer one.

Eddie Cotton - you are a fucking disgrace.

No one wants to reply because you open up a huge can of worms.

I don't know where to begin.

I know I am angry and disgusted at some of the inconsistencies of some of these refs.

You would think they were all on the same page.

Holding is illegal.

Why some ref's let fighters hold and other ref's are quick to seperate them is a good question.

Some fighters do it far too much and never get deducted a point. Paulie was the one who was doing all the holding on the inside.

It just seems like there is always something broken in this sport.

I hate some of this shiet.

I am not going to rain on Paulies parade because he did a great job.

I do hear you and I do feel you.

I wish there was something I could say but the more I think about what I do want to say the more frustrated and confused I become :(

I think Eddie did a good job in having a good clean fight.
He wanted them to fight and not be holding on.

For what it's worth I would love for Eddie to ref. Hatton vs. JLC :D

The fight was boring for me, paulie is ok but he'll get drown again against the elite in welterweights. If only he had better punching power he'd have a chance.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

The fight was boring for me, paulie is ok but he'll get drown again against the elite in welterweights. If only he had better punching power he'd have a chance.

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Paulie fights at Light Welterweight not Welter.
Unless your saying hes moving up in weight soon, which I don't see happening it doesn't appear he has any weight issues.
However hes does appear to have some type of stamina issue cause at times he has lapses and he slows down and drops his left hand low.

Best ref I've ever seen for infighting is the great New England referee Frank Cappucino (sp?), does a very good job up there of knowing when to break fighters on the inside.

Agreed Amat - Cappucino is great.

Cotton tonight was woeful - he should never be allowed to work a championship fight again. The fighters would come together, they would still BE PUNCHING, and he would yell stop and separate them.

Boxers are only meant to be broken when they are tied up and can't punch.

DiBella paid him off, there is nothing surer...

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Originally Posted by Greig

Agreed Amat - Cappucino is great.

Cotton tonight was woeful - he should never be allowed to work a championship fight again. The fighters would come together, they would still BE PUNCHING, and he would yell stop and separate them.

Boxers are only meant to be broken when they are tied up and can't punch.

DiBella paid him off, there is nothing surer...

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DiBella paid him off.....Now your just talking BS......If they rematch with a different ref the outcome is the same

..HHrrmpphhh..

Greig
You know..I fail to remember a mornin after a big fight where you havnt posted something that offends or just plain annoys..

Daxx, check my posts - I admit that Ndou couldn't have won the fight.

Now please admit that Cotton did a terrible job of officiating the fight. It's clear he was under orders to allow NO INFIGHTING. Check the tape, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable and reasonable guy. Cotton was taking orders from above.

And Tito_BHB - stop talking out of your arse, what else, besides my rant at Pac_Man groupies, have you found so annoying or offensive?

And a question - does BHB stand for Bernard Hopkins' B i t c h??

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Originally Posted by Greig

Daxx, check my posts - I admit that Ndou couldn't have won the fight.

Now please admit that Cotton did a terrible job of officiating the fight. It's clear he was under orders to allow NO INFIGHTING. Check the tape, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable and reasonable guy. Cotton was taking orders from above.

And Tito_BHB - stop talking out of your arse, what else, besides my rant at Pac_Man groupies, have you found so annoying or offensive?

And a question - does BHB stand for Bernard Hopkins' B i t c h??

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Oh so thats how you wana play..

Like a big kid who cant hack it when someone tells him he talks crap.. Lets start slaggin him off cos he makes a point and you cant take it can you

For one..You claimed that dibella was corrupt

Secondly you diss on Judahs performance last week..

Your not a boxing fan, Your a fan of hating on boxing..

And by all that crap you talk im about 99% sure youve never stepped foot in a ring in your life!

And if that 1% adds up to something.. and you have..Then your just too egotistical for your own good

Well, somebody told Cotton to break the fighters before they were even in the clinch - I think it was Lou DiBella. Do I have any proof? No, just a gut feeling.

The only part of Judah's performance I dissed last week was his reaction to his being hit low - he acted more hurt than he really was. I thought Judah aquitted himself quite well in there. If I took the piss out of Judah last week it was because of his whole career where he has acted like a complete twat - not what he achieved last weekend.

I am not a boxing hater, I am a boxing lover. But there are things I can't stand - corruption and politics in the sport (see Cotton's performance in handling that fight, hometown decisions, weak mandatory challengers etc) and fighters who consistently have done things that are bad for the game (see Judah)

So you make a sweeping unfounded assertion that after every big fight I say something ridiculous on here, and then you get angry with me for having a crack about what BHB stands for. It was a joke and I am a fan of Felix Trinidad, far more than I am of Hopkins.

I love this game mate, and I have recently stepped inside a boxing ring for the first time. I know how hard this game is, I'm a terrible boxer. But I am a fucking decent boxing observer who has spent a large part of my life studying the game and the people in it.

I know my stuff and I don't talk crap - Cotton was terrible today and if you say he wasn't then I doubt your judgement.

He wasnt terrible..

Its plain to see that yes.. He did break them up.. And that did blatantly favour malignaggi..

But for one... Technically holding is not allowed in boxing so you cant hold it against him thats just his own style of refereeing..

And aside from that

For one..If cotton hadnt broke them up so consistantly i promise you it would have been the most boring frustrating fight ever..

And its all Ndou's fault anyway..

He walks right in.. Hardly trying to even slip shots .. He waits till he gets close to punch..

If he had half a brain he would have at least tried to jab his way in and work of the jab to land some decent shots..But he just walked in and fell in trying to pound Paulie with shots..

So i have absolutely no sympathy for Ndou that he couldnt 'fight his fight'..

Because at the end of the day..His fight wasnt even a fight..I doubt very much he could have won if he was to get close and pound away and make it a boring inaffective fight

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

He wasnt terrible..

Its plain to see that yes.. He did break them up.. And that did blatantly favour malignaggi..

But for one... Technically holding is not allowed in boxing so you cant hold it against him thats just his own style of refereeing..

And aside from that

For one..If cotton hadnt broke them up so consistantly i promise you it would have been the most boring frustrating fight ever..

And its all Ndou's fault anyway..

He walks right in.. Hardly trying to even slip shots .. He waits till he gets close to punch..

If he had half a brain he would have at least tried to jab his way in and work of the jab to land some decent shots..But he just walked in and fell in trying to pound Paulie with shots..

So i have absolutely no sympathy for Ndou that he couldnt 'fight his fight'..

Because at the end of the day..His fight wasnt even a fight..I doubt very much he could have won if he was to get close and pound away and make it a boring inaffective fight

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But Tito, Ndou wasn't holding YET. The clinch hadn't even got to the holding stage yet, the guys were still punching.

Saying that Ndou had 'no fight' today is like saying that Hatton had no fight when he fought Tszyu. Hatton's strategy was to get in as close as he could and maul Tszyu with short shots inside, inside of Tszyu's range.

Hatton was allowed, Ndou wasn't and I think it was because the organizers of the event wanted Malignaggi victorious.

Now I'll say it again: I think Malignaggi wins NO MATTER WHO REFS AND IN WHAT STYLE.

But Ndou was a victim in there tonight of some highly dubious refereeing that allowed no infighting to take place whatsoever, and that is not right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greig

Daxx, check my posts - I admit that Ndou couldn't have won the fight.

Now please admit that Cotton did a terrible job of officiating the fight. It's clear he was under orders to allow NO INFIGHTING. Check the tape, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable and reasonable guy. Cotton was taking orders from above.

And Tito_BHB - stop talking out of your a***, what else, besides my rant at Pac_Man groupies, have you found so annoying or offensive?

And a question - does BHB stand for Bernard Hopkins' B i t c h??

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I just reinstated the fact it would have been the same either way...Never insinuated you said N'Dou would have won with diffrent ref...

I did clearly state that it is BS about the Ref being paid off by DiBella......Cotton is world renown he can get a job reffing any fight he does not need to show favortism to a promoters fighter to assure future work....

Did he break them to soon?? At times yes but that is a far cry from being paid off....

And by insulting Tito is not going to change that

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greig

Daxx, check my posts - I admit that Ndou couldn't have won the fight.

Now please admit that Cotton did a terrible job of officiating the fight. It's clear he was under orders to allow NO INFIGHTING. Check the tape, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable and reasonable guy. Cotton was taking orders from above.

And Tito_BHB - stop talking out of your a***, what else, besides my rant at Pac_Man groupies, have you found so annoying or offensive?

And a question - does BHB stand for Bernard Hopkins' B i t c h??

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I just reinstated the fact it would have been the same either way...Never insinuated you said N'Dou would have won with diffrent ref...

I did clearly state that it is BS about the Ref being paid off by DiBella......Cotton is world renown he can get a job reffing any fight he does not need to show favortism to a promoters fighter to assure future work....

Did he break them to soon?? At times yes but that is a far cry from being paid off....

And by insulting Tito is not going to change that

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Yep, like in rounds 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 12 ;D


It was the consistency that has me suspicious Daxx - if it was once or twice then no problem, but the whole night come on.

If Cotton had have refereed, Corrales/Castillo like that how would you feel? If Cotton had refereed Hatton/Tszyu, Tszyu might still hold the belt they were fighting for today...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greig

First, let me say that I don't think Ndou could have beaten Malignaggi tonight regardless of who was officiating - Paulie was too quick for him and showed great defense and some nice combinations.

BUT, Eddie Cotton did flat out the worse job I have ever seen by a professional referee. He broke the fighters before they were even IN a clinch... He effectively eliminated the possibility of any infighting AT ALL. Ndou's strategy was obviously to get inside the faster Malignaggi and rough him up on the inside - the referee just did not allow any infighting to take place whatsoever. Contrast that with Dave Parris handling of Kostya Tszyu's fight with Ricky Hatton - he took an eternity to break them up and let Hatton maul Tszyu stupid on the inside.

If Ndou had been allowed to fight on the inside I don't think he would have won but the fight sure as hell would have been a bit closer.

Infighting is a (HUGE) part of boxing. Guys like Marvin Hagler, Julio Cesar Chavez and countless others would not have been heard of if they were not allowed to rough guys up inside.

I have never seen boxers being broken as quickly as they were tonight EVER. It was laughable.

Eddie Cotton had obviously been given his instructions from DiBella and followed them to the letter.

And taking a point from Ndou was disgraceful - if Malignaggi is going to dip his head down at every opportunity then Ndou is within his rights to hit him there. I've seen plenty of fights where Malignaggi would have been the one getting warnings for constantly putting his head down...

All in all Paulie was the better fighter on the night - but that fight should have been a far better and closer one.

Eddie Cotton - you are a F****** disgrace.

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Good post!

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Originally Posted by Greig

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

He wasnt terrible..

Its plain to see that yes.. He did break them up.. And that did blatantly favour malignaggi..

But for one... Technically holding is not allowed in boxing so you cant hold it against him thats just his own style of refereeing..

And aside from that

For one..If cotton hadnt broke them up so consistantly i promise you it would have been the most boring frustrating fight ever..

And its all Ndou's fault anyway..

He walks right in.. Hardly trying to even slip shots .. He waits till he gets close to punch..

If he had half a brain he would have at least tried to jab his way in and work of the jab to land some decent shots..But he just walked in and fell in trying to pound Paulie with shots..

So i have absolutely no sympathy for Ndou that he couldnt 'fight his fight'..

Because at the end of the day..His fight wasnt even a fight..I doubt very much he could have won if he was to get close and pound away and make it a boring inaffective fight

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But Tito, Ndou wasn't holding YET. The clinch hadn't even got to the holding stage yet, the guys were still punching.

Saying that Ndou had 'no fight' today is like saying that Hatton had no fight when he fought Tszyu. Hatton's strategy was to get in as close as he could and maul Tszyu with short shots inside, inside of Tszyu's range.

Hatton was allowed, Ndou wasn't and I think it was because the organizers of the event wanted Malignaggi victorious.

Now I'll say it again: I think Malignaggi wins NO MATTER WHO REFS AND IN WHAT STYLE.

But Ndou was a victim in there tonight of some highly dubious refereeing that allowed no infighting to take place whatsoever, and that is not right.

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As far as i remember i saw cotton break them up a few times without bieng in a serious clinch.. a few times also when they were just stood shoulder to shoulder but with noone holding..

but also in my opinion if he had not have broken up the clinches that some may have said were not worthy of bieng broken up.. then i dont believe there would be an issue with the refereeing for the fight

Perhaps cotton was over anxious..I do remember the better part of him breaking them up early..
Perhaps it was just the referee settling in..

But for me the referee did a good job and what he did or didnt do right in the fight was not really an issue

And also no..

You cannot compare hattons game to Ndou..

Like i mentioned earlier.. He just walked in.. no bobbing slipping weaving..He sure as hell didnt dance in..
He plain old walked in.. there was no game plan in that.. He should have known he couldnt consistantly bang at paulie by walking in and thinking it was simple..

Hatton however slips punches and uses lateral movement to get on the inside and gives you different angles when he fights.. There is just no comparison

I agree that Cotton sepereated them almost instantly, but N'dou could have done a better job for himself.

Maggie won fair and square. Hopefully he will turn it over to someone else quickly.

I don't think fighters get screwed as much as I hear people say.

Barrera was screwed...
Huerta was screwed...
Spinks was screwed...
De La Hoya was screwed...
Wright was screwed...
Toney was screwed...

:rolleyes3: C'mon...

Although the ref may have broken them up too quickly,you yourself acknowledge that Ndou most likely would not have won anyway so how could he have been screwed? Ndou got schooled and even with the ref Amat mentioned,I'd still HEAVILY fancy Paulie.

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Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

I agree that Cotton sepereated them almost instantly, but N'dou could have done a better job for himself.

Maggie won fair and square. Hopefully he will turn it over to someone else quickly.

I don't think fighters get screwed as much as I hear people say.

Barrera was screwed...
Huerta was screwed...
Spinks was screwed...
De La Hoya was screwed...
Wright was screwed...
Toney was screwed...

:rolleyes3: C'mon...

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Lol :P

Toney is being constantly screwed and Barrera was just done an injustice :) ;)

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Originally Posted by amat

Best ref I've ever seen for infighting is the great New England referee Frank Cappucino (sp?), does a very good job up there of knowing when to break fighters on the inside.

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Yep some of his notables were Tyson vs Spinks all 90 seconds... I remember Tyson Following thru with an elbow and Frank jumping in telling Mike to Knock it off

Gatti vs Ward 1 Nuff said

I agree that the fighters were broken prematurely on more than one occasion. This did indeed diminish Ndou's opportunity to be in the fight.

I agree that the point taken from Ndou was a bad call.

Paulie did come in bowed over with his head down, so that when they did clinch it often seemed like Ndou was pushing him down and holding him. But it wasn't Ndou causing that to happen

Ndou did wait until getting way inside to start punching, and by that time it was too late, because the no-clench rule that was in play took away his only chances to be in the fight.

Even against different officiating, Paulie would probably have won this fight in much the same manner as he did. It might have been a little closer. BUT - the possibility that Ndou might have got a stunner in there and then capitalized on it would have been greater - so there remains, always, the possiblity of Ndou W TKO.

As far as Cotton taking orders ... well, can't speak to that. How many fights where Cotton ref'd have folks seen? Does he have a tendency to disallow in-fighting, or was this a marked departure from his norm?

Paulie did a great job, but with his lack of power, it's hard to see him winning consistently against other good boxers who also have power.

I dont think Ndou should be talking shit because he was the one that was trying to step on Paulie's foot half the fight. Add that rabbit bunch and the elbows to that and it was obvious he was trying to fight dirty since he couldnt out box paulie

I agree the ref did break them as soon as they touched each other, he didnt allow for much in-fighting. Which I think would favor N'dou, but you never know look how Paulie flurried on him in that last round, that was inside.

The ref. is the 3rd man in there. His bias should be outlined long before the fight has begun.

That would help dissolve the conspiracies. Although, no doubt it would be a nightmare come negotiation time :-\


Personally I’m not too keen on Eddie Cotton. I remember his pandering to Tyson during the Lewis fight.

The champ got no respect that night. That was brutal to watch. N'dou was continually warned while Paulie was given the room to do as he pleased. N'dou is a far better fighter than he is being given credit for and IMO, the powers that be just didn't think he was marketable enough so they made sure he had nochance.