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Journeymen, do we need more?
The boxing journeyman seems to be becoming a thing of the past. Im not talking those guys that have 50 fights for 4 wins i mean the guys who have real talent, and fight anybody anywhere and always give a good showing.
Currently there are fighters like Glen Johnson, Sam Soliman, Emmanuel Augustus and Yory Boy Campas, but even these guys are getting to the end of their career. Who is gonna take their place? And does boxing need them? I'd like your thoughts on this.
And is their other journeymen i've forgot to mention?
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
Winky Wright has a long history of fighting anyone anytime.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Winky Wright has a long history of fighting anyone anytime.
You are right but it'd be hard to call Winky a journeyman just yet :)
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
N'dou has always been a journeyman, a good fighter who will give an up and comer a good workout or give a top fighter a solid 12 rounds like he did with Cotto. Just falls short of being a top 5 fighter.
Castillo will probably be doing the same after the Hatton fight!
The journeyman fighter will always be in demand for the fact that they are no easy pickings, trainers don't want their potential champions to KO everyone in 1 or 2 rounds, they need to get rounds behind them in preparation for future tough twelve rounders against the elite competition.
I think Cotto has been handled brilliantly in his career and has now got that experience by taking on good credentialed performers who have given him good fights.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
I've thought of some more. Demarcus Corley, Oktay Urkal?
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
What you think Alejandro Berrio, Mzonke Fana, Clinton Woods, Oleg Maskaev and damn near all the WBO title holders are? The problem isn't that the journey man is disappearing. Cuz he's not. The problem is the too many titles out there. With so many belts out there you get a lot of weak champions. Journey men fighters. But since at one time they manage to win a title, they become known as "Ex Champs" instead of journey man. Which in reality is pretty much what they are.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
N'dou has always been a journeyman, a good fighter who will give an up and comer a good workout or give a top fighter a solid 12 rounds like he did with Cotto. Just falls short of being a top 5 fighter.
Castillo will probably be doing the same after the Hatton fight!
The journeyman fighter will always be in demand for the fact that they are no easy pickings, trainers don't want their potential champions to KO everyone in 1 or 2 rounds, they need to get rounds behind them in preparation for future tough twelve rounders against the elite competition.
I think Cotto has been handled brilliantly in his career and has now got that experience by taking on good credentialed performers who have given him good fights.
totally agree third man! 8)
2 eg; of good journey men are james tillis and mitch blood green. i dont mean to bring up tyson, cause he gets a lot of attention on this board but the tillis and green fights are exactly what he needed. he neederd to go 10 -12 rds with a good journey man for experience, it was basically a learning curve for the young tyson.
and i agree with VD! theres to many weak title holders, that if they were in any other era, they would not be champions ......eg; shannon briggs-ex-champ ;D briggs is a journey-men at best
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
What you think Alejandro Berrio, Mzonke Fana, Clinton Woods, Oleg Maskaev and damn near all the WBO title holders are? The problem isn't that the journey man is disappearing. Cuz he's not. The problem is the too many titles out there. With so many belts out there you get a lot of weak champions. Journey men fighters. But since at one time they manage to win a title, they become known as "Ex Champs" instead of journey man. Which in reality is pretty much what they are.
Correct!
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
Isn't a Journeyman was a boxer who had his own personal career (usually blue collar) and boxed on the side?
As opposed to the Ray Leonards, Jones Jrs who live only for professional boxing or their main source of money comes from boxing and they are good enough to make a living out of it?
I always wanted a journeyman to whup a "premier boxer." Happens rarely. Always thought it was an sort of an insult to label a man a "journeyman" too. They always get treated as third rate in the boxing world. I have a lot of respect for journeyman... hard working men.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Originally Posted by Gyrokai
Isn't a Journeyman was a boxer who had his own personal career (usually blue collar) and boxed on the side? 
As opposed to the Ray Leonards, Jones Jrs who live only for professional boxing or their main source of money comes from boxing and they are good enough to make a living out of it?
I always wanted a journeyman to whup a "premier boxer."  Happens rarely.  Always thought it was an sort of an insult to label a man a "journeyman" too.  They always get treated as third rate in the boxing world.  I have a lot of respect for journeyman... hard working men.
There's many different definitions of journeymen. To some they are just fighters whose records are really really bad. To others they are fighters who are just below contender status and have shown that they dont have what it takes to excel at the next level (this is mine). Others might use your definition but the term journeymen comes from colonial times. A journeyman was a guy learning a craft (blacksmith, etc.) whose skills were higher than that of an apprentice but they weren't quite a master of the craft (Masters could then leave the guy they were learning under and open up their own shop but in the meantime, journeymen would actually get paid for the work they did under the master). Basically a journeymen is a guy who isn't a total bum but hes not exactly championship challenging material so the term is an accurate one.
Only reason i know this is because in 3rd grade (maybe 5th) i was supposed to read a book about colonial times (it wasn't about the american revolution so i wasn't interested) it was called Johnny Tremaine or some shit, Anyway thats all i gathered from the book because thats the only thing i remember reading (and by reading i mean seeing the teacher review the book during class) about it. We were supposed to write down some SAT style writing prompts but i said the hell with that.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
We need lots of journey men who are well below world class.
Otherwise who will Frank Warrens WBO champions fight ????:)
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
I think it's always good to have journeymen (and more of them). Peter Manfredo Jr. looks like he's headed in that direction, I hope more people follow his lead.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
A journeyman is a fighter who's second job is boxing.
Sometimes it can be used as a slang term as an insult to a boxer.
I can't see how it is an insult, because journeyman aren't lazy bast@rds like premier boxers are who only have to work out 3 hours a day at most. The showcase boxers usually don't do any open workouts anymore and hardly help out in promotional aspects of the sport and often shun reporters.
Without journeymen, there are no champions.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Winky Wright has a long history of fighting anyone anytime.
You are right but it'd be hard to call Winky a journeyman just yet :)
Did I read that right, did you say just yet.... ???
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Winky Wright has a long history of fighting anyone anytime.
You are right but it'd be hard to call Winky a journeyman just yet :)
Did I read that right, did you say just yet.... ???
The smile was to show that its ridiculous to say he's a journeyman. I dont think he is.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Winky Wright has a long history of fighting anyone anytime.
You are right but it'd be hard to call Winky a journeyman just yet :)
Did I read that right, did you say just yet.... ???
The smile was to show that its ridiculous to say he's a journeyman. I dont think he is.
Ahhh! I see.... My mistake....
But Winky WAS somewhat a journeyman he'd travel the world fighting people in their backyards except he was kicking their ass and he climbed up the latter the hard way but look at him now...
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
Winky Wright has a long history of fighting anyone anytime.
You are right but it'd be hard to call Winky a journeyman just yet :)
Did I read that right, did you say just yet.... ???
The smile was to show that its ridiculous to say he's a journeyman. I dont think he is.
Ahhh! I see.... My mistake....
But Winky WAS somewhat a journeyman he'd travel the world fighting people in their backyards except he was kicking their a** and he climbed up the latter the hard way but look at him now...
Exactly man. CC.
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Re: Journeymen, do we need more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
The boxing journeyman seems to be becoming a thing of the past. Im not talking those guys that have 50 fights for 4 wins i mean the guys who have real talent, and fight anybody anywhere and always give a good showing.
Currently there are fighters like Glen Johnson, Sam Soliman, Emmanuel Augustus and Yory Boy Campas, but even these guys are getting to the end of their career. Who is gonna take their place? And does boxing need them? I'd like your thoughts on this.
And is their other journeymen i've forgot to mention?
CC#44 good topic.....
We need journeymen....It lets us know if the top tier are really the top tier.....It used to be if you couldn't beat so ans so you were not going to make it to the top....OR if s top guy lost to one of them it was a sign that things were coming to an end....
Some great and most known Journey men over the years...
Two Ton Galento...
Jerry Quarry...
Troy Dorsey....
Joe Hipp....
Jsut a few to go along with those you mentioned
