Was Holyfield Past His Prime Against Lewis?

Right after his tough fights against Lewis, he had his "trilogy" with John Ruiz. At that point critics were calling Holyfield Past his prime, so less than a year earlier vs. Lewis he was still prime? Did he get old overnight or was he on the slide against both guys. I think he did as good as he ever could against the much bigger Lewis and Nobody looks good against John Ruiz so I dont hold those fights against Holyfield. I dont think he really started to show his age until he fought Hasim Rahman. I think the Ruiz fights just took a lot out of him and that contributed to his three consecutive loses (not that age didnt have anything to do with it). But he fought Lewis well in the loss that I thought he won and if that wasnt a somewhat prime Holyfield I dont know what is.

people were saying holyfield was past his prime when he fought bowe. He just kept proving people wrong. thats part of the reason why he still thinks he can win a title. he used to people doubting him but now he really is past it.

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Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'

people were saying holyfield was past his prime when he fought bowe. He just kept proving people wrong. thats part of the reason why he still thinks he can win a title. he used to people doubting him but now he really is past it.

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I thought he looked great vs. Maddalone, and people still doent give him credit.

past his prime against lewis?
I think that goes without saying,
however, he is probably doing the best out of all fighters past and present who was/is "past their prime"

Holyfield ducked Lewis for as long as he could. In order to millk as much as he could from his title. Yeah, he was past his prime.

They were both passed there best

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

Right after his tough fights against Lewis, he had his "trilogy" with John Ruiz. At that point critics were calling Holyfield Past his prime, so less than a year earlier vs. Lewis he was still prime? Did he get old overnight or was he on the slide against both guys. I think he did as good as he ever could against the much bigger Lewis and Nobody looks good against John Ruiz so I dont hold those fights against Holyfield. I dont think he really started to show his age until he fought Hasim Rahman. I think the Ruiz fights just took a lot out of him and that contributed to his three consecutive loses (not that age didnt have anything to do with it). But he fought Lewis well in the loss that I thought he won and if that wasnt a somewhat prime Holyfield I dont know what is.

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He was past him prime maybe, but he was still champion around that time so if he could still become champ I figure he was still a good fighter. He was maybe on the downside, but Lennox would have beaten him in 1995 as well. Holyfield looked like a shot fighter in 1994 against Moorer, and then later he looked better. He is an amazing fighter. That is for sure.

Lewis would of beaten him at any stage in both the careers.

That first fight was a robbery, Lewis clearly won.

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

Lewis would of beaten him at any stage in both the careers.

That first fight was a robbery, Lewis clearly won.

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I agree with that. Lennox had the equalizer. That right hand punch was a punch which he used well. Evander never had that kind of punch to use to keep guys off of him. So in a way Evander is great in all he accomplished at a smaller size, yet Lennox was so much more dominant.

Evander was said to be past his best after the first loss to Bowe . Lewis would have beaten him back then . Evanders prime was probably in his cruiser days . Evander probably wasnt at his best but he was having teh best run of his career going into it ( Tysonx2 and Moorer . )

Thats true

I think Evander peakede against Buster Douglas and it was a gradual slide from there. But even at 80 per cent he was stilla great fighter and good enough to twice school Tyson. I agree lewis should have got the nod the first time.

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

I think Evander peakede against Buster Douglas and it was a gradual slide from there. But even at 80 per cent he was stilla great fighter and good enough to twice school Tyson. I agree lewis should have got the nod the first time.

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Im not so sure . Sometimes he performed well sometimes he didnt . Look at the two fights with Moorer he was better in the second fight . Against Bowe he was better in the return and even against Lewis he performed better in the return . Lewis did a number on him when they wore Grant gloves in the first fight but wearing those big everlast pillows in the rematch , his punches just bounced off him .

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Originally Posted by GAME

Evander was said to be past his best after the first loss to Bowe . Lewis would have beaten him back then . Evanders prime was probably in his cruiser days . Evander probably wasnt at his best but he was having teh best run of his career going into it ( Tysonx2 and Moorer . )

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Disagree the Lewis that fought Bruno ect got caught with alot of punches and his balance seemed to be bad i think holyfield could of beaten that version of Lewis however yes the first fight was robbery but people forget how well Holyfield done in the 2nd fight some people even thought he won it i think Holyfield was past his best but i also think Lewis was in his peak.

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

Lewis would of beaten him at any stage in both the careers.

That first fight was a robbery, Lewis clearly won.

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I thought the first AND second fights were robberies.....and Holyfield wouldn't be easy for ANYONE to beat ....EVER.

You can bet he was, Holyfield at full steam, excellent footwork, blazing combination punching, in and out non stop action was when he took Michael Dokes for the WBC Continental Americas Title in 1989. Against George, he showed he had everything to compete with big men and again with Bowe in 1992. Almost ten years on and after have faced Bowe twice more, Tyson twice, Moorer twice, he was not at his best in New York against Lennox... But you know what, in Los Angeles he took the juice out of the always dangerous one punch english-canadian-jamaican that never followed up his attack showing that his heart was not a part of the package, Holyfield is one of the best 5 of all time and may win a title still at 44, see how good this unbelivable warrior is like

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Originally Posted by Dorfmeister

You can bet he was, Holyfield at full steam, excellent footwork, blazing combination punching, in and out non stop action was when he took Michael Dokes for the WBC Continental Americas Title in 1989. Against George, he showed he had everything to compete with big men and again with Bowe in 1992. Almost ten years on and after have faced Bowe twice more, Tyson twice, Moorer twice, he was not at his best in New York against Lennox... But you know what, in Los Angeles he took the juice out of the always dangerous one punch english-canadian-jamaican that never followed up his attack showing that his heart was not a part of the package, Holyfield is one of the best 5 of all time and may win a title still at 44, see how good this unbelivable warrior is like

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Welcome to the Forum Dorfmeister and Have #4 :coolclick: on me.... Excellent assesment of Evander.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

past his prime against lewis?
I think that goes without saying,
however, he is probably doing the best out of all fighters past and present who was/is "past their prime"

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he was about 3 years past...still game...

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by GAME

Evander was said to be past his best after the first loss to Bowe . Lewis would have beaten him back then . Evanders prime was probably in his cruiser days . Evander probably wasnt at his best but he was having teh best run of his career going into it ( Tysonx2 and Moorer . )

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Disagree the Lewis that fought Bruno ect got caught with alot of punches and his balance seemed to be bad i think holyfield could of beaten that version of Lewis however yes the first fight was robbery but people forget how well Holyfield done in the 2nd fight some people even thought he won it i think Holyfield was past his best but i also think Lewis was in his peak.

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Thats one way of looking at it but the way I see it . Bowe knocked Evander around at that time. He was also hurt by Cooper cuz back then he had no neck . Lewis was a finisher , if you see him in the Rudduck and Bruno fights . I think he would have taken Evander out back then . He wouldnt have let him off the hook like Cooper did .

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Originally Posted by Big Jack

I think Evander peakede against Buster Douglas and it was a gradual slide from there. But even at 80 per cent he was stilla great fighter and good enough to twice school Tyson. I agree lewis should have got the nod the first time.

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I agree . Evander of 1990-1991-1992 was pretty good. I think one thing which hurt Evander after 1993 was that he beat Bowe in the rematch and seemed to start lifting more weights to get stronger to compensate for the guys he was fighting being bigger. So then he was slower in a way because of the added bulk. Well he fought Moorer in 1994 and Moorer was smaller than most of the guys and faster. So the extra bulk hurt Evander. After he took that time and got rest after losing to Moorer, he came back better since he knew that he could not bulk up as much but had to use his experience to win fights. And he did with Tyson and the Moorer rematch.

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

Lewis would of beaten him at any stage in both the careers.

That first fight was a robbery, Lewis clearly won.

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I heavily doubt lewis would of beatin holyfield in Holyfields prime.

dont be silly, there was what a couple of years age difference when they fought, what are yoou saying Lewis had abetter longer better prime? because he did. He beats Holyfield at everypoint in both there careers.....

Holyfield was past his prime when he fought Lewis certainly. But a Old Holyfield is still a title threat even now. That tells you a lot about Evander's determination and skills and a lot about the state of the heavyweight division today.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

Lewis would of beaten him at any stage in both the careers.

That first fight was a robbery, Lewis clearly won.

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I heavily doubt lewis would of beatin holyfield in Holyfields prime.

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Lewis always was and always will be the best Heavyweight of this era, you could put any version of Holyfield in with Lewis and he'd lose. Lewis avenged his losses to Rahman and McCall and everyone else he beaten thoroughly without question. NO ARGUMENTS. Put Lewis in with any of the all time greats, and predict a winner, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Louis, Marciano, Tunney, Johnson, Liston etc. he would have matched with any of them, and probably beaten them too.

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Originally Posted by 'Big' Dan McCarthy

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

Lewis would of beaten him at any stage in both the careers.

That first fight was a robbery, Lewis clearly won.

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I heavily doubt lewis would of beatin holyfield in Holyfields prime.

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Lewis always was and always will be the best Heavyweight of this era, you could put any version of Holyfield in with Lewis and he'd lose. Lewis avenged his losses to Rahman and McCall and everyone else he beaten thoroughly without question. NO ARGUMENTS. Put Lewis in with any of the all time greats, and predict a winner, Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Louis, Marciano, Tunney, Johnson, Liston etc. he would have matched with any of them, and probably beaten them too.

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Lewis would of lost to the following

Larry Holmes
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe watching some fights of his recently have swayed me
George Foreman just because i don't think Lewis could take Foremans power.

Lewis and bowe dont make me laugh. Lewis was by far the best HW of his era, and would prob still beat any of the boys today if he got into shape. He could hold his own with any HW of any era ^-^

prove it?
one fact that you cannot ignore is in the 2 fights that defined his status as an all time great were against2 GREAT fighters who badly past their prime.
IMO,
Holyfield (in his prime) had a workrate that would nullify lewis main weapon, and thats the jab. Holyfield was the type of fighter who would eat the jab all night long to get in his work.
However during the lewis fights, you could easily see holyfield eatin the jabs to get inside, but didnt have the power or speed anymore to implement his attack on lewis.
Lennox NEVER faced an athletic opponent like Evander Holyfield (prime)
I am convinced that for lennox to have such a hard time against a tired past his prime holyfield, he wouldnt of beatin a prime holyfield.

ok then, but what was the age difference when they fought, im not exactly sure but it cant be more than two years. Why was Holyfield so past his prime and Lewis wasnt....

Dont forget Holyfield ducked Lewis like Tyson did untill they had no where else to turn.

FACT

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

ok then, but what was the age difference when they fought, im not exactly sure but it cant be more than two years. Why was Holyfield so past his prime and Lewis wasnt....

Dont forget Holyfield ducked Lewis like Tyson did untill they had no where else to turn.

FACT

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Fact my azz, you are so biased against American fighters its ridiculous... Take your meedly mouth "FACT" and shove it were the sun dont shine junior...... Holyfield Ducked no one.. Ever!!!!! not a bitch ass lewis who got KO'D by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall... What the hell was Lewis doing when guys like Tyson, Holyfield and 40 + year old Foreman were strong and in the mix..... I'll tell you NOTHING!!!!!

yeh yeh yeh... he beat every oppenent put in front of him, never ducked anyone. Beat every fighter of his generation. It was the US fighters who were ducking him, belts being thrown on dustbins and all that. boo hoo hoo.....

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

yeh yeh yeh... he beat every oppenent put in front of him, never ducked anyone. Beat every fighter of his generation. It was the US fighters who were ducking him, belts being thrown on dustbins and all that. boo hoo hoo.....

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Intelligence at its best ::** please lets stick to the point, I want proof of your so called FACT that Holyfield ducked him till he had no choice but to fight him ??? C'mon junior stand by your comments and man up!!

Well i think you'll agree that certain american's ducked him? e.g. Mr Tyson for a long time, im i dontt have any evidence about Holyfield ducking him, but he didnt want any part of him for a long time, that i have heard a lot of.

and give the Junior shite a rest, its not big and its not clever.

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

i dontt have any evidence about Holyfield ducking him, but he didnt want any part of him for a long time,

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Sure thing Vienna Sausage ;D (sorry couldnt resist) again you make a claim about one of the best blood and guts fighters especially one that epitomises everything courage is in a Boxing ring, like it is bible or something but yet you have ABSOLUTEY NOTHING to substantiate that claim... Then you have a problem with the reprucussions

you calld Lewis a bitch ass, hhmmm let me think. he gave a beat down to everyone of your boys, and no im not biased towards US fighters, cause some of my favourite fighters are American pal. My simple fact is he beat every fighter put in front of him, only had one legit loss (Mccall fight should of gone on) and bowe and tyson admitted to bottling getting in the ring with him. I have heard before that Holyfield ducked him, i have no thing to back it up granted.

Admit no one could live with him in a ring while he was about.

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

ok then, but what was the age difference when they fought, im not exactly sure but it cant be more than two years. Why was Holyfield so past his prime and Lewis wasnt....

Dont forget Holyfield ducked Lewis like Tyson did untill they had no where else to turn.

FACT

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Fact my azz, you are so biased against American fighters its ridiculous... Take your meedly mouth "FACT" and shove it were the sun dont shine junior...... Holyfield Ducked no one.. Ever!!!!! not a bitch a** lewis who got KO'D by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall... What the hell was Lewis doing when guys like Tyson, Holyfield and 40 + year old Foreman were strong and in the mix..... I'll tell you NOTHING!!!!!

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WOWzers...
even tho we had our differences..CC for b*tch slappin the livin bajesus out of that fo0l.

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Originally Posted by Big_Deuce

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

ok then, but what was the age difference when they fought, im not exactly sure but it cant be more than two years. Why was Holyfield so past his prime and Lewis wasnt....

Dont forget Holyfield ducked Lewis like Tyson did untill they had no where else to turn.

FACT

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Fact my azz, you are so biased against American fighters its ridiculous... Take your meedly mouth "FACT" and shove it were the sun dont shine junior...... Holyfield Ducked no one.. Ever!!!!! not a bitch a** lewis who got KO'D by Hasim Rahman and Oliver McCall...   What the hell was Lewis doing when guys like Tyson, Holyfield and 40 + year old Foreman were strong and in the mix..... I'll tell you NOTHING!!!!!

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WOWzers...
even tho we had our differences..CC for b*tch slappin the livin bajesus out of that fo0l.

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Returned :coolclick:  Still cant believe the ridiculous claim, when all Evander ever talked about througout his whole career was unifying and being the Lineal Heavyweight champ of the world... Duck Lewis Please!!! save the nonsense for someone who hasnt followed Evanders career like I have

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

you calld Lewis a bitch a**, hhmmm let me think. he gave a beat down to everyone of your boys, and no im not biased towards US fighters, cause some of my favourite fighters are American pal. My simple fact is he beat every fighter put in front of him, only had one legit loss (Mccall fight should of gone on) and bowe and tyson admitted to bottling getting in the ring with him. I have heard before that Holyfield ducked him, i have no thing to back it up granted.

Admit no one could live with him in a ring while he was about.

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Its funny how you say that holyfield ducked lewis for so many years. But then he fights him twice? Holyfield has never ducked anyone, the man demolished the cruiserweight division, then conditioned himself enough to move to the heavyweight division and became one of the toughest HW of all time. You ARE being biased and its deffinately clear in your arguments. All you can repeat is that lewis has beatin every man infront of him. This is true, but it doesn’t let any light on the subject that lennox lewis did not

Beat Holyfield or Tyson in his prime,

Got Sparked by one punchers TWO TIMES

Gave up his ibf and wba belts not to fight ruiz (can debate it all you want, ruiz was #1 contender @ the time)

Fought Vitali klitschko (vitali only having 11 days to train for the champ) lewis got lucky when vitali got cut on his eye, he was losing on all score cards, his punch count was decreasing every round, (even his jab, Lewis with no jab = yea u know it) THEN RETIRED instead of fighting vitali on rematch that he PROMISED after the fight.

You’re the only person I have ever heard describing someones prime having to do with their AGE. It aint their age it’s the battles they endured, years in the game, and punishment taken. And with all those characteristics holyfield was Past his prime.

Next time when you want to have an argument bring some facts to the table because this “ I HAVE HEARD” bullSh*t is a mediocre (at best) attempt to try and prove anything.

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

My simple fact is he beat every fighter put in front of him, only had one legit loss (Mccall fight should of gone on) and bowe and tyson admitted to bottling getting in the ring with him. I have heard before that Holyfield ducked him, i have no thing to back it up granted.

Admit no one could live with him in a ring while he was about.

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Uh no I wont admit to something thats speculative and highly unlikely.... Also I never liked Riddick Bowe and congrats Lewis beat an out of shape uninterested shot Mike Tyson that was consequenly beaten by Holyfield already... Suprise, Suprise ::**

I hate to break in on a heated debate but Evander was past his prime against Lewis. It is silly to think otherwise..

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Originally Posted by gudnite vienna

you calld Lewis a bitch a**, hhmmm let me think. he gave a beat down to everyone of your boys, and no im not biased towards US fighters, cause some of my favourite fighters are American pal. My simple fact is he beat every fighter put in front of him, only had one legit loss (Mccall fight should of gone on) and bowe and tyson admitted to bottling getting in the ring with him. I have heard before that Holyfield ducked him, i have no thing to back it up granted.

Admit no one could live with him in a ring while he was about.

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NAH your not biased, ::**