My introduction, and a question

Hello all::)

My name is John and have been in the boxing game for 42 years, my father started me when I was 5. I have been training fighters for over 20 years, and have produced 5 golden glove champs, one of which was Kevin Coles from Clairton in 1994. Kevin lost in the Nationals to Antonio Tarver, a split decision that many felt Kevin won.

Anyway, my daughter has been in and out of gyms with me now since the time she was born, she is 16 years old. Lianne, my daughter hits like a truck, and I predict she will be champ one day. My question however is this:
She weighs 200 pounds, she is thick, not obese or fat. She is shedding inches, but not pounds. She does not eat red meat, well seldom does I should say, and she trains everyday. For the past three months, she missed one day in the gym, and she runs 2 miles every morning during the week, and 5 miles on Saturday and Sunday, what I call a boxers jog, slow paced...

She does her crunches and pushups religiously also. Why is she losing inches but not weight? I realize that she is building muscle, and that muscle weighs more than fat, but good lord, the pounds should be comming off....Any suggestions?

My website is www.clairtonboxingclub.com
I have just recently finished the ring, and all of the gym has been redone, I will update photos in the near future. Thanks all, and I love this website, will be a regular for sure. Good job !!!!

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Originally Posted by Abaddon

Hello all::)

My name is John and have been in the boxing game for 42 years, my father started me when I was 5. I have been training fighters for over 20 years, and have produced 5 golden glove champs, one of which was Kevin Coles from Clairton in 1994. Kevin lost in the Nationals to Antonio Tarver, a split decision that many felt Kevin won.

Anyway, my daughter has been in and out of gyms with me now since the time she was born, she is 16 years old. Lianne, my daughter hits like a truck, and I predict she will be champ one day. My question however is this:
She weighs 200 pounds, she is thick, not obese or fat. She is shedding inches, but not pounds. She does not eat red meat, well seldom does I should say, and she trains everyday. For the past three months, she missed one day in the gym, and she runs 2 miles every morning during the week, and 5 miles on Saturday and Sunday, what I call a boxers jog, slow paced...

She does her crunches and pushups religiously also. Why is she losing inches but not weight? I realize that she is building muscle, and that muscle weighs more than fat, but good lord, the pounds should be comming off....Any suggestions?

My website is www.clairtonboxingclub.com
I have just recently finished the ring, and all of the gym has been redone, I will update photos in the near future. Thanks all, and I love this website, will be a regular for sure. Good job !!!!

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Can't really help with your question mate - but I'm sure somebody will shortly

But just to say :welcomesign: and have your first :coolclick:

Welcome to saddoboxing John. 8) Anyways I have a few ideas in regards to exercise and diet that may help pull your daughter out of that rut.

First just to get some things straight I need you to answer a couple questions. Does your daughter do any supplemental strength training such as weights? This not counting the typical boxing stint. This is just to rule out if your daughter is gaining more muscle which is preventing her from losing weight.

On another note I should say that a lot of people's bodies differ by their natural makeup, needs and reactions to certain diets and exercises. There's about 3 different categories of bodytypes that people fall into. Extomorphs which account for people that are have narrow shoulders, lean, and in general have a hard time building muscle. The second kind may be category that your daughter falls under. The second category is Mesomorphs, this body type is generally bigger, stronger, easier to gain muscle but on the flipside have difficulty losing weight/fat. I don't think that I'll have to go into the third category which differs from the two before mentioned.

Anyways some people's bodies have unique tendencies and needs that must be recognized for in order to know how to deal with them. A lot of the mesomorph sort of people in general have a body that hoards onto the fat produced by carbs. Reducing carbs can help as long as the body is getting enough. You experiment with reducing your daughter's daily amount in her diet, and record how her body reacts. You can not cut too much carbs from your diet because then your body would have to convert protein into energy and your body would also produce harmful toxins. A lot of people have done well to increase the amount of protein in their daily dietary intake. Protein takes more energy to burn, it's essential and there's an amount that your body needs. It'd be a good idea to find out how much protein that she needs.

Another thing that should be noted is eating balanced meals. If you eat too much carbs, or eat too much in general a few detrimental things will happen. For one you're causing a big insulin spike, which leads to more more carbs and fat to be stored as body fat. A big meal also sets you up for a big let down later when your blood sugar drops.

Even if she's working extra hard it still wouldn't be a good idea to to eat big meals. The effects are still the same, for example look at a lot of the guys in the NBA, they burn thousands of calories on the court, but the gorge themselves eating, this causes their bodies to hoard onto those extra carbs and fat.

Do you follow?

What would be then better is eating more smaller portioned meals throughout the day. Your body would get what it needs without putting it into storage. Getting enough protein in those meals are also necessary. This will also keep you from getting frequent cravings that is a result from lower blood sugar levels.

Some obvious things that should be taken to mind is gradually reducing the amount of calories during the day. This would mean eating smaller lean portions, and cutting out any junkfood for the most part. Don't be too strict with the diet, at least one or two days a week it is necessary to eat more carbs to maintain your leptin levels. Leptin is our body's antistarvation hormone that that sends signals to the body saying that we're getting enough to eat. A higher amount of carbs one day a week will maintain the leptin levels which will prevent your body from going into a fat hording survival mode. Some other obvious stuff is to stay away from junk food such as saturated fats, trans fats.

I hope this helps, next I'll go over some exercise ideas...

I got stuff to do so I'll go over some exercise ideas later. If you got any more questions don't be afraid to shoot.

Hiya::)

Yes that gave me a lot to think about. I have my daughter on a low fat diet, her diet is shredded wheat for breakfast, low fat soup and a chicken or turkey sandwhich for lunch, and chicken or tuna with veggies on the side. No junk food at all, and for a snack she eats fruit and an occcasional protein bar. She also eats some fruit between meals.....

That's a good start but think what else can you do to improve it? I mentioned the importance of protein and that it takes more energy to burn it. You don't want to cut too much fat out of your diet but you want to stay away from bad fats. For fats if you can get your daily need from fish and nuts that'd be perfect. Anyways here why don't I show you what my diet for today looks like:

6:00 am, Breakfast:
-3 scoops of oats, half a cup of milk mixed with 4-5 strawberries, a handful of blueberries and crushed flaxseed.
-1 scoop (18 grams) of Whey Protein
-1 glass of distilled water or half a cup of orange juice
-Multivitamin supplement

6:30-45 am, long walk followed by a light core workout.

9:00 am, Brunch:
-Protein shake: 2 scoops of Whey protein w/ glass of distilled water/ice, with almond oil.
-1 WA. Delicious Apple

11:45 am, Lunch:
-Tuna sandwitch (serve on whole wheat bread)
-1 poached egg

1:00 pm, Roadwork (more than every other day)

2:30 pm, Meal 4 (pre-workout):
-Protein shake
-Lipo 6 (caffeine supplement)
-Ginseng and Royal Jelly Supplement

4:00 pm, Workout.

5:45 pm, Dinner:
-Salad with veggies,
-grilled chicken sandwitch
-1 scoop of Protein

If I'm hungry after dinner I may have something light to eat such as a piece of fruit, or some yogurt/cottage cheese, but never after 8:00 pm.

I haven't added it all up yet but by the end of the day I'll know about how much calories, protein, carbs and fat that I've taken in. Knowing this I can always adjust it accordingly depending on what my body needs, and how it's responding.

Does this mean you have to be meticulous about it, no but it helps. You at least need to know what your body's needs are and have a ball park figure when it comes to how much of what you should be getting. Now you don't need to have a bunch of protein shakes like I do, if you'd like to prepare something else that's fine, I just do the shakes thing because it takes just 1 minute to have it all whipped up and doesn't take me long to drink.

You still need need to live and learn and find out how much you or she needs, and then establish a plan that works around it. This allows you to adjust the diet to reach your goals. Now if you are carrying around some extra weight weight yourself some of the things that I have outlined will help you bigtime.

With this all you're not going to lose all the weight over night, the first few weeks you'll burn the visceral fat which lies in your muscles. This will make the muscles appear to become smaller while in all actuality you're not losing any muscle at all. Later you'll burn the fat that covers your muscle which will give you a more defined lean look. Also in general upper body fat is burned before lower body fat, I can't explain why, it's just how the body does things.

I gotta get working now, I'll definitely go over some exercises later. :)


Peace...

Sounds like she is an endo/mesomorph and is probably at her natural healthy training weight. :)

One way you can check for sure can be a little expensive but was worth it for me - I saw an anthropometrist.

He measured me on body fat percentage scales but since they can be out by a bit he also measured me with those tong thingies (sorry can't think of the name right now) and measured many points to get an idea of my bone structure.

I was trying to make weight at 54 kg and hold it and making myself sick. Found out my minimum healthy weight is 55 kg. I may be able to get down to 54 kg for short periods of time without adverse effect but holding it too long is dangerous for me.

He could tell me what it was safe to aim for and how to do it with minimum risk. Bone structure is unlikely to change and you can measure muscle mass on some body fat percentage scales so I don't think it's something you need to do again often.

I found when I did force the weight down to 54 kg my body fat percentage went UP!!!! I lost muscle, my body went into starvation mode and wanted to store fat. Training became harder and harder and my performance suffered.

I'll also add I think this is MORE dangerous for women. It interferes with our hormones which prevents us from absorbing calcium. Over a long period of time it can reduce bone density and increase the risk of osteoperosis. Google "female athlete triad". I suffered from this but hopefully not long enough to suffer any permanent damage.

Women have naturally higher body fat percentages than men and I know a lot of successful female athletes who don't have six packs. If you think she performs well at her current weight and hits like a train she will probably do well. From what I've seen and experienced in the womens boxing scene here the skinniest are not always the best.

Thanks for all the input !!

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Originally Posted by Sharla

One way you can check for sure can be a little expensive but was worth it for me - I saw an anthropometrist.

He measured me on body fat percentage scales but since they can be out by a bit he also measured me with those tong thingies (sorry can't think of the name right now) and measured many points to get an idea of my bone structure.

I was trying to make weight at 54 kg and hold it and making myself sick. Found out my minimum healthy weight is 55 kg. I may be able to get down to 54 kg for short periods of time without adverse effect but holding it too long is dangerous for me.

He could tell me what it was safe to aim for and how to do it with minimum risk. Bone structure is unlikely to change and you can measure muscle mass on some body fat percentage scales so I don't think it's something you need to do again often.

I found when I did force the weight down to 54 kg my body fat percentage went UP!!!! I lost muscle, my body went into starvation mode and wanted to store fat. Training became harder and harder and my performance suffered.

I'll also add I think this is MORE dangerous for women. It interferes with our hormones which prevents us from absorbing calcium. Over a long period of time it can reduce bone density and increase the risk of osteoperosis. Google "female athlete triad". I suffered from this but hopefully not long enough to suffer any permanent damage.

Women have naturally higher body fat percentages than men and I know a lot of successful female athletes who don't have six packs. If you think she performs well at her current weight and hits like a train she will probably do well. From what I've seen and experienced in the womens boxing scene here the skinniest are not always the best.

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What's strange is if you reduce the amount of food that you eat the hormone leptin decreases which is the trigger for your body to go into starvation mode and burn more muscle than fat. One way to counter this is to eat more carbs on one day durring the weak. This'll send your body the right signals that will maintain your leptin hormone levels therefore not putting you into starvation mode.

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Originally Posted by Abaddon

Thanks for all the input !!

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I guess that means you'll stay right? ;)

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Originally Posted by Chris N.

What's strange is if you reduce the amount of food that you eat the hormone leptin decreases which is the trigger for your body to go into starvation mode and burn more muscle than fat. One way to counter this is to eat more carbs on one day durring the weak. This'll send your body the right signals that will maintain your leptin hormone levels therefore not putting you into starvation mode.

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Interesting little tit bit of info CC Chris :)

You mean 'tid bit' right? because there's no nipples in this one. ;)

Anyways, you can find more info on the hormone leptin on google. I found one artical that linked low leptin levels with morbin obesity. I think that's both unfortunate and ironic because when we're talking about a 500+ pound person's body that thinks it's starving.

Anyways it's late, I'm bashed so I'll save the rest for tomorrow.

Until then,
Chris 8)

Oh heck yea I am gonna stay, lol. As a matter of fact, I have linked to your forums from my website, hope you dont mind. My site is new, and I do not have many hits yet. I built it mostly for communication between my boxing team. You guys should check it out. The ring in the pics was under construction, it is done now, and we have some good pics of our resident pro, with an up and commer sparring.......www.clairtonboxingclub.com

I also have another site, www.dirtydawgs.net that has been in existence for 7 years. It is an on-line gaming community, and my squad is one of the best in the world. The reason I am straying from the topic of my daughters weight is because you all have been so kind and insightful, if ya ever want a site built, let me know, it will be done for free::)....Thanks all, and I will be posting often, just call me a pest...lol

I think it's cool that this forum has input from people who are interested in boxing - not only mens boxing but all boxing. :)

I'm glad we've got another coach of female fighters here CC :)

I just checked it out, and signed up on your site's message board. I noticed you have a psalms verse on your main page which isn't a surprise since you've just mentioned that you've served in the marine corp. Anyway's I'm about ready to turn in for the night but I have a piece in the bible that I think that you'd like to read.

"Whatever your hands finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity, planning, knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you're going..." -ECC. 9:10

I read it on a baseball mount a friend owned. :) Maybe you'll enjoy it too.

By the way I checked out that gamer site, it's nice it brought back a couple memories because I used to play that game a few years ago, Delta Force is it? It was a fun game, I just don't have time to spend to that kind of stuff anymore.

You're welcome here, you check out any post that you want.

CC for everybody who has posted on this thread - how many forums could somebody get so much help from their first post - quality advice guys :D

Thank you Chris::) I love boxing, and I got to tell you thast I have never ever recieved the type of input concerning anything that I have recieved here, thak you all kindly. And thanks again Chris for inviting me to stay::)....And Sharla, I think womens boxing is fantastic, gosh you guys should see my daughter hit, lol.

updated my site, new ring and new pics::) www.clairtonboxingclub.com

CC back at ya Abaddon and BIG H :)

You should post a vid of your girl so we can see Abaddon. Unless you want to keep it under wraps in case some of her potential opponents coaches want to study it I guess.

I'd like to see it. I've been boxing for a while but am taking a while to get the power up. It's coming along gradually but I always feel inspired by female boxers who really pack a wallop.

I'm so used to knowing that the male fighters in my gym are always going to hit harder it's good to see another female with power I can aim for realistically.

Of course FeuerFrie makes knock downs look easy too :)

Hey Sharla, you should check out Lucia Ryker and Anne Wolfe's fights. They hit hard for woman, and they have some nifty moves as well.

By the Abs, if you don't mind me calling you that, I checked out your website again yesterday. I'll drop some useful posts on your message board once I've finished typing them up. I'm still working on a exercise followup that I was going to add last night but never got around to.

Alright John onto some exercise ideas.

In your first post here you said that your daughter goes on a 2 mile jog everyday during the week and a 5 miler on the weekends. This idea of slow and steady training has been around for ages, and another kind of training that’s been around for almost as long I’m going to introduce to you.

Interval Training, it’s generally characterized as repetitions of high-intensity, cycled with periods of rest or lower activity. This seems to raise the body’s metabolism more so than a slow and constant jog. Now this idea has been done by boxers since the turn of the century, the great Bob Fitzsimmons would sprint from telephone pole to telephone pole alternating it with walking and jogging. He also did plenty of jogging and long walks and could still hold a conversation without being winded despite running at a blistering pace.

In the 40’s and from book written by olympic boxing coach Edwin L. Haislet, he referred to this method of training as ‘Wind Sprints.’ In this way you would sprint a 100 yards then walk a 100 yards. Bruce Lee also referred to this method in his roadwork doing intervals of walking, running, and sprinting. He would also mix up his running, doing what has already been mentioned, running backwords, cross-stepping, side-stepping, and shadowboxing along the way. Muhammad Ali also did much of this as well.

You could also adjust your pace accordingly to your heart rate and keep it at a chosen range. If you want to keep it in sync with boxing’s intervals you can run hard a few minutes, then walk a minute while pushing air into your lungs.

It’s up to you, I’m not trying to convert anyone, but I just want to point out there are always better ways to do things.

Anyways, here are a few tips in regards to running:
At first get warmed up by going at a leisurely jogging pace until your muscles are loosened up and your blood is flowing, now stop for a few minutes and do a few stretches to loosen up the hamstrings, calve muscles and lower back. I’ll go over a few stretches if you’d like to know.

Also make you’re running properly, you’re not leaning forward, your butt isn’t sticking out, lifting your knees up and letting gravity do all the work when it comes down. There’s a few different ways that your feet can land and that would depend on the kind of running at that particular moment. For jogging your can run hell-to-toe, and with faster running you can go on the balls on your feet.

Also it’s a good idea to invest in some decent running shoes; it may save you a trip to the doctor.
Don’t do hard roadwork on days that you have sparring scheduled for later, and do not do it immediately before or after you work out at the gym.

Hiya All !!

Yep calling me Abs will be fine::) And Sharla, I will video tape her workout, mitts, and try to get them on-line. I have never did this before so it may take me some time to figure out how to publish the video for on-line. Thanks Chris for the advice. Ya know, me and Reverend Stoudemire ( you all should google his name, he is remarkable, and was 7-0 as a pro, til he got his calling from God) been discussing incorporating wind sprints in her workout, just wasnt sure how or when, so your advice is well recieved, and we will start this immediatly. Man I am glad to have found this site, lol. Sharla, what weight class are you?....If you dont mind me asking::)

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Originally Posted by Abaddon

Hiya All !!

Yep calling me Abs will be fine::) And Sharla, I will video tape her workout, mitts, and try to get them on-line. I have never did this before so it may take me some time to figure out how to publish the video for on-line. Thanks Chris for the advice. Ya know, me and Reverend Stoudemire ( you all should google his name, he is remarkable, and was 7-0 as a pro, til he got his calling from God) been discussing incorporating wind sprints in her workout, just wasnt sure how or when, so your advice is well recieved, and we will start this immediatly. Man I am glad to have found this site, lol. Sharla, what weight class are you?....If you dont mind me asking::)

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She's a bantamweight,its why Im so willing to give her advice ;Dshe'll never have to worry about being in the ring with my girl ;D

Hey John, you're doing alright, you're fitting in like apart of the family, or in our case more like a boxing fraternity. :D In regards to the running you can get a cheap sports watch to keep track of the time, and a heart rate moniter if you want to take it in that direction. Good luck with that, I'm sorry that I didn't get back to you sooner with the exercises, but hopefully you can make it work for you.

By the way I looked up the name Abbadon, it reads "angel of destruction." But I'm sure you already knew this. I'll look up Rev. Stoudemire some time. Maybe God has my number, who knows.

We got our non round timer as swag from HBO
Actually for a freebie its works pretty good,no buzzer on it,but it takes a hell of a beating

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

We got our non round timer as swag from HBO
Actually for a freebie its works pretty good,no buzzer on it,but it takes a hell of a beating

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That's neat, let me know when these freebies are happening. I can get you a boxing timer that you can put on a CD if you want.

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Originally Posted by Chris N.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

We got our non round timer as swag from HBO
Actually for a freebie its works pretty good,no buzzer on it,but it takes a hell of a beating

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That's neat, let me know when these freebies are happening. I can get you a boxing timer that you can put on a CD if you want.

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We use an Everlast round timer(might as well get freaking Everlast tattooed on me) but it only goes as low as 2 minute rounds,so for punchouts we need something else,so we use the HBO thing

Hey Abbadon, with a little trouble I was able to track down a neat article on your friend the Reverend. This one has a Million Dollar Baby twist to it: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05286/587381.stm

I couldn't find anything else though.

Hiya all !

Yes, Tika, the Pitts. million dollar baby is Reverends Stoudemires neice. She will begin training at the Clairton Boxing Club soon. Reverend and I has maed a commitment to the city of Clairton for the next ten years. By the way, I have discovered that Canada has a lot of female fighters, so I will be making my way through their in the near future with my daughter. Do any of you know any place else that female boxing is big? I know of the Golden Glove tourney for females in Florida, and the nationals, anywhere else?

Hey Abaddon. I can't really help you there, but that was a nice story that I found. It's nice to know when somebody has the stuff, especially when they show you a thing or two to change your thinking.

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Originally Posted by Abaddon

Hiya all !

Yes, Tika, the Pitts. million dollar baby is Reverends Stoudemires neice. She will begin training at the Clairton Boxing Club soon. Reverend and I has maed a commitment to the city of Clairton for the next ten years. By the way, I have discovered that Canada has a lot of female fighters, so I will be making my way through their in the near future with my daughter. Do any of you know any place else that female boxing is big? I know of the Golden Glove tourney for females in Florida, and the nationals, anywhere else?

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I know its damn big around here
My wife took this years Beckley Toughman

I went to a workshop by Polar which gave a really good presentation on how to programme your running.

They said they'd email it to me so as soon as they do I'll put it up on here. You can use a heart rate monitor but even without one a lot of the principles they spoke about were still useful.

The key thing being allowing sufficient recovery. Don't get her to do two hard running sessions on consecutive days if you want her to be as explosive as she can possibly be.

I wouldn't completely drop all the longer slow runs she does now either. I know that a lot of people say you don't need them at all for boxing but people at the Polar workshop advocated one longish, slow session a week to keep your base fitness up and help your body cope with the hard stuff.

Sure she doesn't need to run marathons but I think the two 5 miles runs she does every week now are good. Maybe could make one slightly longer and drop the other completely if you want to change it.

It's still classed as a hard day because it's long though so don't do it immediately the day before or after hard running.

Coming back from a knee injury I don't do really long runs but I get in one 2 hour slow swim every week and it feels good. Maybe I'm biased though - I have to admit that because I've had my fun in distance running and endurance events :)

Good point Sharla, even when I was a cross country runner we trained in both steady long distance and intervals.

Thanks Sharla::)

Well we found a heavyweight for my daughter in Ohio, the girl that she was to fight tonight backed out, dont know why. I also talked with a gym in Canada, the manager Lily, is setting something up now....goodness, this is the part of boxing that I have a love/hate relationship with....lol

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Originally Posted by Abaddon

Thanks Sharla::)

Well we found a heavyweight for my daughter in Ohio, the girl that she was to fight tonight backed out, dont know why. I also talked with a gym in Canada, the manager Lily, is setting something up now....goodness, this is the part of boxing that I have a love/hate relationship with....lol

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Not me man,for me its strictly hate/hate ;D
Thats not enitrely true,Ive gotten to meet some pretty cool folks,but everytime I deal with a promoter,I feel the need for a vigorous bath

Aint that the truth, lol

By the way Abs, how's you're girl doing?

Hiya all !

Well she is down to 198, she lost 7 pounds over the past 10 days. I started to use slimfast, non-fat milk, and a bag of frozen mixed fruit, sometime I also use non-fat yogurt for a breakfast drink, and she will drink a 8 oz glass of it when she is craving something sweet. We have been eating a lot of fish, skinless chicken and vegetables, and fruit. We are also starting to do interval training with her running, however we followed the advice given and are only doing this every other day.

She seems to be getting stronger everyday, and her punches are god awful strong, she is going to be a force to contend with. her stamina is strong. We do every thing in the gym at 3 min. intervals. Her daily workout is:

7:30 am - 9:00 am Running (interval training incorporated now.
11:30 - 1:00 Isometrics and neck excersice, jump rope, and instructional mitt work.
3:30 - 6:00 jump rope, shadow boxing, mitts, heavy bag, double end bag, corner bag, hook bag, speed bag, and sparring on Monday, wednesdays and Fridays.

She does her evening workout at 4 rounds, 3 minutes each round, on each activity.

Wanted to let you know that Tika hemingway, and Monty Clay( I think Monty) will begin training at the gym soon.

Chatiqua still amateur?