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Just watched Tyson/Richardson
Forgot,not only how good Tyson was,but how much different his personality was,he was completely gracious in victory,helping the guy up,and going to check on him in his corner
Makes you wonder all over again what he would have been if the leeches hadnt gotten to him
Commentator the other day on Fox,"Well Douglas got alot of help in that fight from Robin Givens" ;D
Im sorry but Tyson done it to himself no one can make someone turn into what he became thats poor excuse in my eyes alot of people have gone through bad times in there life and they don't turn into bad people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Mike Tyson had to sharpen up his image after prison because he wasn't the same fighter so he tried harder to scare everyone so he wouldn't have to fight as hard or in a technically superior manner.
Image meant a lot to Tyson and D'Amato and Rooney...to some he still SEEMS unbeatable when he was in his prime....but I don't think so
If youvew ever dealt with someone with mental illness,youd know how easily manipulated they can beQuote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Yes i have and they ain't bad people either no one made Tyson turn into anything he done it to himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I dont think Tyson had to end up "bad" eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Like I said,the mentally ill have to be watched out for,not used
With Cus at the wheel Tyson was gracious in victory,kept his nose clean,and despite the voice,gave a civil interview
With Robin Givens,King,Finkel,and every other leech that sucked the money out of his account,he became seriously unhinged SOB
If you look at his behaviour its classic depression/manic depression
Thus the shame of it,after Cus was gone,everything changed
Happens to boxers all the time,but usually not this dramatically
No disrespect Bro but at 17 you are just coming to your own personality, and likely in about 10 years you will change certain aspects of perception and what not... So I think it will take time to comprehend fully dealing with someone with mental illness ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
I agree with you. God gives us the ashplat its up to us how smooth we pave our roads.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
It's all simple case of "you can take the man out the ghetto, but you can't take ghetto out the man." Tyson was as ghetto as they came.
Yeah, everything's as simple as that.
Both insulting and ignorant, VD. Not to say cheap and unreflective. Did I mention ignorant?
Ice Cold, too ... how easy you guys find it to categorize and judge, like you see and know all.
Someday, folks will say the same kinds of things about you for something you did for very complex and difficult reasons which you may not fully understand yourself ... but that other person will pigeonhole you and explain you with one swift descriptive phrase, and it's as simple as that.
Well put...but I totally agree with ICB.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
One word that nails it on the head:
HOPKINS!!!
I say it as i see it simple as.Quote:
Originally Posted by NuthaPug
Hopkins isnt Manic-depressiveQuote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Yes & no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
Tyson was from the streets...but when guided he handled himself like a gentleman.
Vintage Tyson when guided by Cus was a boxing fan's wet dream. He was something that even the purists fell in love with. I always loved to hear him speak after dispatching his opponent...it seemed like after Cus was gone, & I hate to use this excuse, when he married up with King he went farther south.
No...but he did commit legit crimes & he didn't let the system hold him down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
I'm not questioning the manic-depressive bit...& IWO it is often a bit that Tyson does play...but Hopkins went through many of the same if not worse things that Hopkins did & he willed himself through.
I have never seen Tyson act like a gentleman didn't you hear what he used to say about his opponents ?? he was never a gentleman even as a teenager he wasn't either luckily Cus was training him as a teen because otherwise he would of been put in jail right there and then i believe Tyson had great skills in his prime but he was never a gentleman in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Having watched Tyson in recent years,he's textbookQuote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
When Cus was around he could kind of keep it under control,when Cus was gone,the "Whats in it for me" brigade desended
It isnt just what Mike got through,Mikes fighting himself
Nobody associated with him gives two craps though,he needs,and has needed help,but hey,as long as theirs a buck to be made
Most forms of mental illness are a chemical imbalance that gets worse with a bad situation
Cus understood that,and watched out for him,nobody else has in the 20 years since then
And now that the monies dried up,everyones gone,leaving Mike to pay their tab
Then you either watched too many replays on tape or you didn't see his early fights to their fullfillment. Tyson often spoke rather gently, oddly enough sweetly, about his opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
He was taught all the rights with Cus & then when on his own...he re-learned the wrong.
AARON SNOWELL....what a peice of shit he might as well have been working on a nuclear reactor during the Douglas fight....he had no fucking idea of what to do or tell Mike (not that Tyson would listen to him which is why he was in the corner to begin with).
Shame is Snowell is still training I do believe....I don't know how he finds new fighter but he's still around
Tyson got in trouble alot even when he was with Cus.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Apparantly he's gotten alot better,I wouldnt risk it,but thats what Ive heardQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I don't care I wouldn't trust him....a trainer is a guy you have to trust with your life because he's your only other defense besides your two fists and your brain
You gotta be shittin me?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
There's a HUGE difference in the Tyson of then & the Tyson of the 1986 period. Cus passed in 85 & Tyson began to crumble personality wise around the Berbick win.
Sorry but he did.
Now...as I was saying...Tyson was respectful of his fallen comrades prior to that...there were still glimmers here & there...but not as bold as when Cus was in the picture.
Mentor's make a difference.
....it wasn't out in the open when Cus was around but Teddy Atlas has said his peice about how everything went down and I believe him.
What sucks is Kevin Rooney hasn't had ANY success since then....IMO he'll come back in five to ten years with a good heavyweight and do some damage
Check the lead post,He not only helps Richardson up after the count,he spends most of his time after the announcement in Richardsons corner making sure he's OkQuote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Wacko he may not of been the same person he was back then but he still got in trouble its well known Tyson is the sort of guy that would always self destruct.Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
Tyson was always a gentleman throughout his career.
Did you guys already forget how he caressed Lennoxs face after their fight? :)
I had a feeling you'd be the first queer to call that one...which is why I skipped it! Heh heh heh.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
You act as though I have said the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
YES...Tyson has issues.
YES...Tyson caused trouble.
YES...he was self destructive...
But...BUT...there was good in him. He was respectful to his fellow men after the matches & he was a credit to boxing before he turned into a total head case.
Back in his heyday Tyson was good for boxing...even those that didn't like him thought that he was a phenom & Tyson was always a totally devout student of the game.
That's the shame that I see in Tyson...he could have contributed so much...even after his losses he could have still given so much to boxing outside of the ring...but he turned himself into a media spectacle & an end is an end.
I have a feeling in my gut that the next major Tyson headline will be either jail time or overdose.
Yes, that's very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Oh no they can't.
No way, man - that's rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
It depends on what illness they have....people dealing with manic episodes are pretty easy to manipulate
I've had a couple manic episodes in my day and nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, they are completely unpredictable when they are going thru a manic episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Very philospical Nutha, cool click for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NuthaPug
But people are always stereotyping/judging on what they know little of. Can blame people for that, everyone does it. Like you said most people don't often fully understand what leads themselves to certain actions, much less have the ability to understand another's.
If someone robs a bank, a lot of people not only label them as a criminal, but as a bad person.
The media is a faceless enemy and tyson didn't know how to deal with it. He didn't bow down to it... he let out his resentment towards it. Now he's still dealing with how disgraceful "the world" thinks he is.
I don't think Tyson is more mentally ill than millions of people walking the streets who live normal lives.
Like everyone he has his good and his bad sides.
X give me all your money, it really is for the best.
People are not responsible for the illnesses they suffer from (outside events and people can cause them), but they are responsible for their actions while suffering from it. Mike tyson didn't make himself bi-polar but mike tyson did commit the crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
^^
True, but he was also accused of plenty he didn't commit, that's gotta wear a man down.
Then again in retrospect, it probably is easier to make them do stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
"I'll give you $5 to beat that guy up" "Ok"
I'm talking about the assault (which im pretty sure he went to jail for). I find it hard to believe that any pro athlete raped a women at one time or another. Like dennis miller (or maybe it was somebody else) said: "You're telling me this girl gave it up for larry, john, and mike but she wouldn't give it up for Kobe?" It almost impossible to buy any of their stories.Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
it also depends how severe the episodes areQuote:
Originally Posted by Punisher136
But back on topic, I think Tyson was taken advantage of mainly because he ain't the brightest person in the world and hustlers like Don King could wheel and deal circles around him making a very bad idea seem like a can't miss idea....for example letting a tax attourney represent you in a rape case
What Mike went through as a 20 year old wouls affect anyone, there was to much bad shit happening. There are crossroads in life unfortunatly at that age he was giuded down to many wrong turns. Sorry I hope Robin Givens dies alone and in pain, I hate the woman.