Just another one of Wacko's Drunken Round by Rounds! Klitschko vs Brewster II

After a week long hiatus with a near death illness…no shat ya’ll…Wacko was sick as fwock! I’m still trying to pull through for yee ole’ fourf of July party…we shall see.


Anywho, still roughly 7 or 8 days away HBO is bringing us the rematch that we all some of us have been waiting for: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Lamon Brewster. I should be all better to hit the bottle once again & hammer out another round by round for your & mine’s own drunken pleasure. Cheers.


They say that the bigger they are the harder they fall…& quite often…in boxing, nothing could be more on point…& Wladimir Klitschko has nailed that one to a tee.

While their first encounter ended in a shocking knockout loss…extra shockingly in Lamon Brewster’s favor…we will be treated to a second serving of the now thrice disposed & thrice re-crowned Ukrainian heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko.


Oh joy, oh joy!


Back in the year 2000 (man that seems soooooooo very long ago!) the younger Klit was being heralded as the heir apparent to Lennox Lewis’s throne. There was no star in the stratosphere that shone quite as brightly as Wladimir‘s. He was young, he was pretty, he was powerful…just what the division needed then & exactly what the division needs now. With wins over the likes of Bostice, Jefferson, Shufford, McCline, Byrd, Mercer, Botha, & Barrett he was fast rising to the top…only to be derailed in 2003 by an aging heavyweight knockout artist & long shot Corrie Sanders of South Africa.

Many of Wlad’s most ardent supporters like to avoid discussing the loss to Sanders…much like they do the Brewster loss…& the even earlier loss to Purity. We’ll have none of that here.

After losing to Sanders, it would prove to be a hard & often tedious road back to the top for Wladimir. Wlad would go on to fight two more times in 2003 & quite spectacularly against two lightly regarded & easily stoppable heavyweight contenders in Danell Nicholson & Fabio Moli.

He was back…the savior was back. He had skipped the high road & jumped on the fast track.

In April of 2004, the Ukrainian former champ would return to his second home of Las Vegas, Nevada to match power & skills with Lamon Brewster for the vacant WBO Heavyweight title.

That trip back to the top ended in (queue the drama!!) tragedy for Klitshko as he would batter Brewster from pillar to post before gassing out over the span of five rounds. Again…it was a shock to everyone ringside & couch bound…which brings us back on track with the first or second paragraph of this novella.

Back then, Wlad was the man to beat…much like he is now, & thus the drama of the rematch.

This weekend we have two heavyweights that are both on the path to redemption…each of them in need of the win. After a couple of bad performances, a devastating knockout, and a loss to Serquei Lyakhovich over 12 one sided rounds during which he suffered one hell of an eye injury, Brewster has been on a year & a half layoff with no tune ups in sight. Not exactly the best of circumstances for a rematch with a heavyweight champion.

While this might seem unfair…this is the way of boxing & now that Klitschko once again holds two of the world sanctioning body’s titles & not to mention, the public’s adoration, we have our rematch…be that what it might.

This Saturday, July 7th 2007, live via satellite & Germany’s tick tock we’ll be comin atcha once again from the watchful & ever so comfy couch & home of the drunken round by round kingpin at 5:00 p.m. courtesy of HBO’s World Championship Boxing from the Cologne Arena in Cologne, Germany.


As always with these precisions I say to the oh faithful viewers & readers of the game…it’s fight night & with that…it’s time to break out the chips & salsa accompanied by your poison of choice.

The poll is above…so make your picks & let’s get this thing underway. As soon as I’ve fully recovered I’ll be back in the thick of it with the lot of you…but until then…make your picks & voice your opinions.

As always…much love…cheers & koneecheewah bitches.

Brewster by tko late. I'm not sold on wlad yet. The purity loss came when he gassed out in the 11th round and then a few years later when hes a better fighter, he apparently has even less stamina and "gasses out" in 5? I'm not buying it.

OOOOH YEAH BROTHER! Wladimir Klitschko is going to come in ready for Brewster this time and he's going to pace himself while damaging Lamon Brewster....in my opinion the last fight Wlad lost more than Lamon won it and that kind of thing doesn't happen often, just 2 times in over 50 fights!

I see Wlad starting out with the jab, blocking Lamon's furious hooks to begin the first round, Wlad will tire Brewster out from throwing the hook and eating the 1-2. Lamon will try to move to the inside to get a clean shot and Wlad will begin throwing the right cross and hooking off the jab, and as the fight progresses Lamon will throw less and less and Wlad will open up on him...stopping him with a barrage of huge power shots.

Think of what Wlad did to Chris Byrd in their rematch vs their 1st fight...think of how Manny prepared Hearns for Leonard in their 2 fights and how he got Lewis revenge vs Rahman in their rematch.


This KO will possibly be the biggest moment of Wladimir's career thus far

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Brewster by tko late. I'm not sold on wlad yet. The purity loss came when he gassed out in the 11th round and then a few years later when hes a better fighter, he apparently has even less stamina and "gasses out" in 5? I'm not buying it.

---

Did you WATCH that fight...Wlad threw a ton of punches and Brewster made Wlad move a lot.

Wladimir is the best of the best and will really win over some people on the 7th

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Brewster by tko late. I'm not sold on wlad yet. The purity loss came when he gassed out in the 11th round and then a few years later when hes a better fighter, he apparently has even less stamina and "gasses out" in 5? I'm not buying it.

---

Stamina has ALWAYS been the issue with Wlad...not the chin...as many love to declare.

The Purity loss was waaaaaaaaaaaay back in 1998, then came the KO loss to Sanders in 2003, & then the loss to Brewster in 2004.

While I agree...it's tuff to be sold on Wlad...his track record has proven as good or equal to previous champions such as Tyson, Holyfield, & Lewis.

I say the guy deserves the benefit of the doubt...even though I aint a fan...& do have my doubts like you. If he avenges some of his losses...bully for him...if not & he keeps on winning...I'll be fine with that too.

While it may not be saying a lot for the current state of the division right now...he is the best wev'e got & he has been proving himself of late. His wins over Byrd, Peter, Brock, & Austin were impressive enough to put me back on the wagon...ahhhhhhhhhhhh how fitting. ;D

While I can see where you're coming from & as I stated above...& I do kinda semi-sorta agree...& you were the first to post on the thread...have a :coolclick:

Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Brewster by tko late. I'm not sold on wlad yet. The purity loss came when he gassed out in the 11th round and then a few years later when hes a better fighter, he apparently has even less stamina and "gasses out" in 5? I'm not buying it.

---

Did you WATCH that fight...Wlad threw a ton of punches and Brewster made Wlad move a lot.

Wladimir is the best of the best and will really win over some people on the 7th

---

Manny has turned Wlad into a beast!!! this will be a boxing clinic followed up by an execution......Wlad is going to punish Lamon..just to show how dominant he is now.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

OOOOH YEAH BROTHER! Wladimir Klitschko is going to come in ready for Brewster this time and he's going to pace himself while damaging Lamon Brewster....in my opinion the last fight Wlad lost more than Lamon won it and that kind of thing doesn't happen often, just 2 times in over 50 fights!

---

Totally agree here.

The only thing that's got me a bit worried in regards to Wlad is the fact that he hasn't faced any tough opposition since the Sander's loss & he's faultered a few times.

That being said...I think that the Peter fight was the toughest of his career since the loss to Sanders. The only deal was that Peter was pretty much limited compared to the minor improvements that he's pulled lately, be those small that they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

This KO will possibly be the biggest moment of Wladimir's career thus far

---

:coolclick: Again...I almost totally agree here...but defeating Sanders next would be the better accomplishment. Since beating Wlad & then having his skull battered by Vitali, Sanders has fought three times & won twice by brutal knockouts coming in the second round.

Although Sanders is old & probably past it...as he was thought to be when he destroyed Wlad back in 2003...that'd be more impressive to me.

cc wack.

Forget july 7th, come talk to me when september 22nd comes around ;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by THE Bigragu

Manny has turned Wlad into a beast!!! this will be a boxing clinic followed up by an execution......Wlad is going to punish Lamon..just to show how dominant he is now.....

---

:coolclick: Very well said.

While I'll have to back peddal on my age old mantra of "the fighter makes the trainer"...well...I have to back peddal & state that in this very rare occassion...the trainer has now made the fighter.

I have always thought that Steward was overratted (& I believe that he's doing a terrible job with Taylor...or that Taylor's doing a terrible job with him...that's probably more to point!) I have to say that I was clearly wrong in this case.

Even though they both had a stumble with Brewster & Williamson...they weathered the storm & Wlad is back near the top of his game.

Time will tell...maybe Wlad is the end all be all of the division.

Would that be so bad if he keeps on winning?

Not in my book.

no tough opposition????

Ray Austin gave Sultan all he could handle...1 hook from Wlad and he's done for!

Calvin Brock UNDEFEATED and a guy who is a very good very awkward fighter gave Wlad 6 good rounds dodged and ducked the cross and did as good as anyone I have seen with Wlad but once the steel hammer landed it was all over!

Chris Byrd just got PLASTERED! He was a very game tough fighter and he just got destroyed with that right cross.



BIG FYI here....Wladimir wants a rematch with Corrie Sanders and this fight is a work towards that or a unification bout

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

cc wack.

Forget july 7th, come talk to me when september 22nd comes around ;D

---

Oh you know I'll be here for that one...being that I am a huge fan of the elder Klit...not really thrilled with the way he went out...but what can one do? ;D

Wacko you always hop on and off the Wladimir Klitschko bandwagon...."I'm a fan"....."I'm not a fan"...make up your mind boy!!!


If Wlad can handle Sam Peter as easily as he did he should have no trouble with Brewster this go round

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

BIG FYI here....Wladimir wants a rematch with Corrie Sanders and this fight is a work towards that or a unification bout

---

Big FYI back...the last that I read was that Sanders suffered a pretty rough injury to his money puncher...but that's just what I read...hearing is different than reading...so you may have me there as I have no direct link to South Africa. ;D

As far as a Unify Bout...that I can believe in. Wlad's been clamoring for that since the first strap he hoisted over his shoulder...that I can believe in.

I would honestly say that I would think Wlad believes Sanders to be one hell of a threat...not sure that either he nor Steward is chomping at the bit or bridal for that one.

Could be wrong though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

no tough opposition????

Ray Austin gave Sultan all he could handle...1 hook from Wlad and he's done for!

Calvin Brock OVERRATED and a guy who is a very good very awkward fighter gave Wlad 6 good rounds dodged and ducked the cross and did as good as anyone I have seen with Wlad but once the steel hammer landed it was all over!

Chris Byrd just got PLASTERED! He was a very game tough fighter and he just got destroyed with that right cross.



BIG FYI here....Wladimir wants a rematch with Corrie Sanders and this fight is a work towards that or a unification bout

---

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

cc wack.

Forget july 7th, come talk to me when september 22nd comes around ;D

---

Oh you know I'll be here for that one...being that I am a huge fan of the elder Klit...not really thrilled with the way he went out...but what can one do? ;D

---

If he's healthy he'll clean up the division for sure. He's got atleast 3 good years left in him.

Wlad by stone cold KO because he wants to completely erase that Brewster win from our minds.

"AIM FOR THE RETNA! THE RETNA, WLADDY!" -- Emanuel Steward.


Glad your back, Wack. I for one missed you.

I'm not saying wlads a bum by anymeans, i'm just saying that in the lineage of great heavyweight champs (going back to lewis) is wlad really that kind of caliber boxer? He's great for this time but does he really have everything that would make people from years now agree that he was worthy of being the undisputed champ?

yo, im pissed, i was thinking this AND the travis simms + darchinian fighting another jobber cards were tonight

also i thought the UFC card was today

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

Hey he was undefeated he fought some decent opposition, he EARNED his title shot and right now you're doing EXACTLY what HBO does and discrediting Wladimir for Brock's lack of talent. He came off the floor to beat the crap out of Jameel McCline. He didn't have the resume of a top teir guy but he earned his shot.

Calvin Brock had a very good but very safety first oriented fight vs Wladimir, he was crafty and hard to hit but there was no doubt Wlad could end it at any time.

You could say the same things about Sam Peter than you can about Calvin Brock and everyone on here will disagree with me but Brock is a good average fighter with heart and an awkward style....he doesn't have Sam Peter's power but he fights in a manner which is just as difficult to cope with.


If Ray Austin can't box what does that say about Sultan Ibragimov????

Punisher you bring up how these guys haven't done anything but honestly find me a guy in the division that CAN pose a threat to Wlad.




What does Wlad have to do to be a credible undisputed champ for you? Get up from a knockdown and win CHECK, beat undefeated fighters CHECK, beat the best CHECK, avenge a loss.....see me on the 7th around 11:00 and I'll check that one off too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

Hey he was undefeated he fought some decent opposition, he EARNED his title shot and right now you're doing EXACTLY what HBO does and discrediting Wladimir for Brock's lack of talent. He came off the floor to beat the crap out of Jameel McCline. He didn't have the resume of a top teir guy but he earned his shot.

Calvin Brock had a very good but very safety first oriented fight vs Wladimir, he was crafty and hard to hit but there was no doubt Wlad could end it at any time.

You could say the same things about Sam Peter than you can about Calvin Brock and everyone on here will disagree with me but Brock is a good average fighter with heart and an awkward style....he doesn't have Sam Peter's power but he fights in a manner which is just as difficult to cope with.


If Ray Austin can't box what does that say about Sultan Ibragimov????

Punisher you bring up how these guys haven't done anything but honestly find me a guy in the division that CAN pose a threat to Wlad.




What does Wlad have to do to be a credible undisputed champ for you? Get up from a knockdown and win CHECK, beat undefeated fighters CHECK, beat the best CHECK, avenge a loss.....see me on the 7th around 11:00 and I'll check that one off too

---

actually, should be around 5PM EST, i think the fights in germany

...well I have to have time to get good and liquored up so I can tell off all the haters on here

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

Hey he was undefeated he fought some decent opposition, he EARNED his title shot and right now you're doing EXACTLY what HBO does and discrediting Wladimir for Brock's lack of talent. He came off the floor to beat the crap out of Jameel McCline. He didn't have the resume of a top teir guy but he earned his shot.

Calvin Brock had a very good but very safety first oriented fight vs Wladimir, he was crafty and hard to hit but there was no doubt Wlad could end it at any time.

You could say the same things about Sam Peter than you can about Calvin Brock and everyone on here will disagree with me but Brock is a good average fighter with heart and an awkward style....he doesn't have Sam Peter's power but he fights in a manner which is just as difficult to cope with.


If Ray Austin can't box what does that say about Sultan Ibragimov????

Punisher you bring up how these guys haven't done anything but honestly find me a guy in the division that CAN pose a threat to Wlad.




What does Wlad have to do to be a credible undisputed champ for you? Get up from a knockdown and win CHECK, beat undefeated fighters CHECK, beat the best CHECK, avenge a loss.....see me on the 7th around 11:00 and I'll check that one off too

---

If the shoe fits.... ;D

I just can't see the crowning of wlad as undisputed heavyweight champ when vitali is still in the picture. Yes he's the best active fighter in the division right now but he has a loss to a journeyman regardless of what excuses you wanna make up, a loss is a loss. Brock actually earned his title fight as opposed to some people by fighting names of other average fighters. Do i think brock's a bum? Not completely. He's a contender. As for peter, i dunno how you knockdown a guy three times and end up losing a decision, thats something you gotta try hard at.

There's no one to challenge wlad, and there never has been, i think thats his whole problem. If Vitali quit against byrd and then didn't have the lewis fight, there'd be huge questions about him too but he fought somebody who could challenge him size and power wise. You could say peter challenged wlad but as you said the things i said about brock could be brought against peter just as well. Lennox went thru tyson (maybe washed up, but he was still a name) and holyfield and vitali had to deal with him. Wlad's never fought the guy who beat the guy and thats his problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Wacko you always hop on and off the Wladimir Klitschko bandwagon...."I'm a fan"....."I'm not a fan"...make up your mind boy!!!

---

Truer words have never been spoken...as I have said in the past...fundamentally he is better than his brother Vitali...but for some reason...he's never been in an exciting fight as Vitali has. That's just my opinion. As big of a fan as I am TRUE BOXERS slick, smooth, & on point...it's odd that I was never sold on him...but honestly...I was never sold on him...basically because of the Puritty fight. He just fell apart...& it wasn't like he was in the lead full swing either.

There were early scares during & that one that showed if one didn't buckle like a belt...Wlad was soon to follow.

One of the reasons I never liked that Tyson fellar...that & the fact that I just couldn't stand him after Cus was gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

If Wlad can handle Sam Peter as easily as he did he should have no trouble with Brewster this go round

---

Agreed...but no matter what you say about the proximity of Peter's punches...he gave Wlad fits to be such a limited figher.

Everyone will have their opinions, right or wrong, but I am more than eager to give him the benefit of the doubt...& for the record...my on again off again thing with Wlad wasn't always after a loss...I was pretty disgusted with him after the Williamson & Castillo fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

no tough opposition????

Ray Austin gave Sultan all he could handle...1 hook from Wlad and he's done for!

Calvin Brock OVERRATED and a guy who is a very good very awkward fighter gave Wlad 6 good rounds dodged and ducked the cross and did as good as anyone I have seen with Wlad but once the steel hammer landed it was all over!

Chris Byrd just got PLASTERED! He was a very game tough fighter and he just got destroyed with that right cross.



BIG FYI here....Wladimir wants a rematch with Corrie Sanders and this fight is a work towards that or a unification bout

---

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

While I do agree with some of this...I don't with some of it.

Wlad has the ability to make those with meager skills look like those with much skills...an other words...an on point Wlad is quite a spectacle & dare I say...the most fundamentally talented heavyweight in the last ten to fifteen years.

That, I honestly believe, & that's a tall order.

I hate to say that I don't believe in Brock. Brock was a good up & coming heavyweight...but he was only that...good. He was never great & he was often seemingly unfocussed or something...can't quite put my finger on it.

Again, I gotta say that Wlad deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Take this thread for instance...the hits it's gotten since it's just put up...pretty good conversation so far...wouldn't you say?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Wlad by stone cold KO because he wants to completely erase that Brewster win from our minds.

"AIM FOR THE RETNA! THE RETNA, WLADDY!" -- Emanuel Steward.

---

:coolclick: :appl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BoxingGorilla

Glad your back, Wack. I for one missed you.

---

Thanks babe...no misses me till I'm gone...come to think of it...no one probably misses me then. ;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

I'm not saying wlads a bum by anymeans, i'm just saying that in the lineage of great heavyweight champs (going back to lewis) is wlad really that kind of caliber boxer? He's great for this time but does he really have everything that would make people from years now agree that he was worthy of being the undisputed champ?

---

Good question.

I say YES to both.

Easily & he's proven it by coming back after each loss. If he redeems his losses spectacularly...then absolutey YES.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

Hey he was undefeated he fought some decent opposition, he EARNED his title shot and right now you're doing EXACTLY what HBO does and discrediting Wladimir for Brock's lack of talent. He came off the floor to beat the crap out of Jameel McCline. He didn't have the resume of a top teir guy but he earned his shot.

Calvin Brock had a very good but very safety first oriented fight vs Wladimir, he was crafty and hard to hit but there was no doubt Wlad could end it at any time.

You could say the same things about Sam Peter than you can about Calvin Brock and everyone on here will disagree with me but Brock is a good average fighter with heart and an awkward style....he doesn't have Sam Peter's power but he fights in a manner which is just as difficult to cope with.


If Ray Austin can't box what does that say about Sultan Ibragimov????

Punisher you bring up how these guys haven't done anything but honestly find me a guy in the division that CAN pose a threat to Wlad.




What does Wlad have to do to be a credible undisputed champ for you? Get up from a knockdown and win CHECK, beat undefeated fighters CHECK, beat the best CHECK, avenge a loss.....see me on the 7th around 11:00 and I'll check that one off too

---

:coolclick: in another 24 hours. Very well stated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

There's no one to challenge wlad, and there never has been, i think thats his whole problem. If Vitali quit against byrd and then didn't have the lewis fight, there'd be huge questions about him too but he fought somebody who could challenge him size and power wise. You could say peter challenged wlad but as you said the things i said about brock could be brought against peter just as well. Lennox went thru tyson (maybe washed up, but he was still a name) and holyfield and vitali had to deal with him. Wlad's never fought the guy who beat the guy and thats his problem.

---

Totally disagree with you here. Wlad's taken on the remnants of the divisions better fighters & he's totally destroyed them. You can't pigeon hole the man like that. Just because he came through the thin of it doesn't make him a poor fighter.

The men that he defeated were tall orders & they didn't climb through the ropes to just get knocked out.

You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

Hey he was undefeated he fought some decent opposition, he EARNED his title shot and right now you're doing EXACTLY what HBO does and discrediting Wladimir for Brock's lack of talent. He came off the floor to beat the crap out of Jameel McCline. He didn't have the resume of a top teir guy but he earned his shot.

Calvin Brock had a very good but very safety first oriented fight vs Wladimir, he was crafty and hard to hit but there was no doubt Wlad could end it at any time.

You could say the same things about Sam Peter than you can about Calvin Brock and everyone on here will disagree with me but Brock is a good average fighter with heart and an awkward style....he doesn't have Sam Peter's power but he fights in a manner which is just as difficult to cope with.


If Ray Austin can't box what does that say about Sultan Ibragimov????

Punisher you bring up how these guys haven't done anything but honestly find me a guy in the division that CAN pose a threat to Wlad.




What does Wlad have to do to be a credible undisputed champ for you? Get up from a knockdown and win CHECK, beat undefeated fighters CHECK, beat the best CHECK, avenge a loss.....see me on the 7th around 11:00 and I'll check that one off too

---

If the shoe fits.... ;D

I just can't see the crowning of wlad as undisputed heavyweight champ when vitali is still in the picture. Yes he's the best active fighter in the division right now but he has a loss to a journeyman regardless of what excuses you wanna make up, a loss is a loss. Brock actually earned his title fight as opposed to some people by fighting names of other average fighters. Do i think brock's a bum? Not completely. He's a contender. As for peter, i dunno how you knockdown a guy three times and end up losing a decision, thats something you gotta try hard at.

There's no one to challenge wlad, and there never has been, i think thats his whole problem. If Vitali quit against byrd and then didn't have the lewis fight, there'd be huge questions about him too but he fought somebody who could challenge him size and power wise. You could say peter challenged wlad but as you said the things i said about brock could be brought against peter just as well. Lennox went thru tyson (maybe washed up, but he was still a name) and holyfield and vitali had to deal with him. Wlad's never fought the guy who beat the guy and thats his problem.

---

And Mike Tyson lost to Kevin McBride and Danny Williams....hey a loss is a loss I guess Mike is a sorry ass fighter huh.....Ali lost to Trevor Berbick.

You may say "hey those guys were old as hell" well I'm saying Wladimir was 22 years old now you can take that however you want to I'm saying perhaps a fight that happened damn near 10 years ago and that has little to do with the fighter you see fighting these days might need to be left in the past.

You sound like a hater when you bring up the Purrity fight...yeah it was a loss but it was a loss because Wlad was a young fighter who threw too many punches.

Sanders is the MOST legit loss he has suffered, the Brewster loss, well I guess we'll see about that next weekend.





Lineage is kind of hard to follow when there is not just ONE CHAMPION....if we're doing lineage we're saying Oleg Maskaev is THE GUY right now and to me....that sounds outrageously stupid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Come on lyle, the only person worth a damn left in this division is vitali and thats because hes the only one that fought another heavyweight that was ever any good in lewis. Byrd is a blown up crusierweight who shouldn't be called a 2 time champ because vitali handed him the title the first time which he immediately lost and the second time he beat up a washed up holfield only to defend it five times in 4 years and then lose it again. Austin is a guy, who despite having a huge height advantage in his fights, has ended up with several draws (means the guy can't box). Who did calvin brock ever defeat to make him a proven heavyheavy? Timor was an upcoming unproven prospect and Lawrence has NEVER ko'd anybody and he's a HEAVYWEIGHT!. Watch the video, Brock tryed to counter wlad's right hand with a jab.

---

Hey he was undefeated he fought some decent opposition, he EARNED his title shot and right now you're doing EXACTLY what HBO does and discrediting Wladimir for Brock's lack of talent. He came off the floor to beat the crap out of Jameel McCline. He didn't have the resume of a top teir guy but he earned his shot.

Calvin Brock had a very good but very safety first oriented fight vs Wladimir, he was crafty and hard to hit but there was no doubt Wlad could end it at any time.

You could say the same things about Sam Peter than you can about Calvin Brock and everyone on here will disagree with me but Brock is a good average fighter with heart and an awkward style....he doesn't have Sam Peter's power but he fights in a manner which is just as difficult to cope with.


If Ray Austin can't box what does that say about Sultan Ibragimov????

Punisher you bring up how these guys haven't done anything but honestly find me a guy in the division that CAN pose a threat to Wlad.




What does Wlad have to do to be a credible undisputed champ for you? Get up from a knockdown and win CHECK, beat undefeated fighters CHECK, beat the best CHECK, avenge a loss.....see me on the 7th around 11:00 and I'll check that one off too

---

If the shoe fits.... ;D

I just can't see the crowning of wlad as undisputed heavyweight champ when vitali is still in the picture. Yes he's the best active fighter in the division right now but he has a loss to a journeyman regardless of what excuses you wanna make up, a loss is a loss. Brock actually earned his title fight as opposed to some people by fighting names of other average fighters. Do i think brock's a bum? Not completely. He's a contender. As for peter, i dunno how you knockdown a guy three times and end up losing a decision, thats something you gotta try hard at.

There's no one to challenge wlad, and there never has been, i think thats his whole problem. If Vitali quit against byrd and then didn't have the lewis fight, there'd be huge questions about him too but he fought somebody who could challenge him size and power wise. You could say peter challenged wlad but as you said the things i said about brock could be brought against peter just as well. Lennox went thru tyson (maybe washed up, but he was still a name) and holyfield and vitali had to deal with him. Wlad's never fought the guy who beat the guy and thats his problem.

---

And Mike Tyson lost to Kevin McBride and Danny Williams....hey a loss is a loss I guess Mike is a sorry ass fighter huh.....Ali lost to Trevor Berbick.

You may say "hey those guys were old as hell" well I'm saying Wladimir was 22 years old now you can take that however you want to I'm saying perhaps a fight that happened damn near 10 years ago and that has little to do with the fighter you see fighting these days might need to be left in the past.

You sound like a hater when you bring up the Purrity fight...yeah it was a loss but it was a loss because Wlad was a young fighter who threw too many punches.

Sanders is the MOST legit loss he has suffered, the Brewster loss, well I guess we'll see about that next weekend.





Lineage is kind of hard to follow when there is not just ONE CHAMPION....if we're doing lineage we're saying Oleg Maskaev is THE GUY right now and to me....that sounds outrageously stupid

---

Berbick is hardly a journeymen. At age 22 that ali guy you're talking about was heavyweight champion and undefeated, thats just barking up the wrong tree. Its not just the purity fight, everytime wlads stock rose, he lost again. Its hard to make a case for him when his stock keeps rising and falling like that. I'll admit right now he's probably at his best but really can you 100% trust the guy to take care of business?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.

---

I do realize that...& I see where you are coming...but I think that you should realize the first 15 or 16 words that you stated.

That being said...you do make a good valid point...you do...& it'd good for debate...so I applaude you sincerely...but I do think that you are being a bit harsh...especially comparing him to Liston. ;D

One thing that does bother me a bit about your post is the thing about the Liston & Wlad comparison. Is it saying more that Wlad fought up & comers & bested them when they were becoming what they were or the fact that he didn't sharpen his teeth on worn talent?

I know that that sounds harsh...but honestly...I think that Wlad does deserve the benefit of the doubt...no matter how many times I've had to give it.

You feel me?

Yes "everytime"....3 times in over 50 fights that's like saying everytime Ali was on the rise he lost.

I'm not saying Wlad is as great as Ali but Wlad is a good fighter in this era and he'll be considered one of the best of the post Ali era...after his career is over I'll put him up there with Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, and Bowe

...also not EVERY fighter reaches their prime in their 20's....what about one LENNOX LEWIS???

The fight is today?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

And Mike Tyson lost to Kevin McBride and Danny Williams....hey a loss is a loss I guess Mike is a sorry a** fighter huh.....Ali lost to Trevor Berbick.

---

Tyson is sorry. ;D

McBride, Berbick, & Williams were even sorrier.

;D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

You sound like a hater when you bring up the Purrity fight...yeah it was a loss but it was a loss because Wlad was a young fighter who threw too many punches.

---

Well...I hate to sound that way also...but that was the fight that put me out the most. Honestly, more so than the Sanders loss.

I agree that Wlad was a young fighter who threw too many shots...but against Brewster he shoulda known better & against Sanders...well that was just one shot too many.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Sanders is the MOST legit loss he has suffered, the Brewster loss, well I guess we'll see about that next weekend.

---

Agreed...kind of.

He was about to get his consciousness sent into the light bulbs against Purrity...you know that as well as I do. As far as Brewster goes...many say that Brewster TKO'd him with a few choice shots...that's horse shit. Wlad clearly lost that one.

There's a photo that I used to put up all the time about Wlad lookin all silly putty faced on one of Brewster's shots that begs to differ...but Wlad did gas out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Lineage is kind of hard to follow when there is not just ONE CHAMPION....if we're doing lineage we're saying Oleg Maskaev is THE GUY right now and to me....that sounds outrageously stupid

---

Totally agree...lineage is a tuff one...but then again...so is the Oleg statement.

Gotdam that's funny!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

The fight is today?

---

No thweets.

It's next weekend...there's no fight on this weekend...

Oh yeah...Evander vs Saverwhatever's on PPV tonight. :-X

Wacko, I can understand your views on Wlad's losses and I can understand your confusion as to why he would allow himself to be beaten the ways he has BUT no one is perfect and Wladimir has his flaws and everyone knows them ....but then again everyone can't use them to their advantage can they?

Wlad is the most devistating, efficient, and effective fighter in the heavyweight division when he is on his game and I think the days where he's off his game are few and far between and his record shows that.


I'm a Wlad fan first and then a Vitali fan.....and let me just say that everyone clammoring for them to fight each other is ridiculous NEVER have we asked two brothers to fight each other and it's wrong to ask it of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO6sSV2amBQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u76Xe...elated&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Lf_...elated&search= For the guys that did not see their first encounter. But Klitschko will murder this chump this time around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Wacko, I can understand your views on Wlad's losses and I can understand your confusion as to why he would allow himself to be beaten the ways he has BUT no one is perfect and Wladimir has his flaws and everyone knows them ....but then again everyone can't use them to their advantage can they?

---

I have never said that anyone was perfect…especially not a boxer. Any man can & will lose at the drop of a hat. Honestly, I can’t understand why he loses in the fashion that he does…he should know better…there are times that I can side with you…& then there are times when you just come off as a bit…rabid…when it comes to Wlad.

I can go along with being totally dedicated to one’s fighter…I do the same with Hopkins, Wright, & Mayweather…but there are times when you just have to see that the light at the end of the tunnel don’t always shine so bright.

You get’s a bit…overly defensive when it comes to Wlad.

I’m just sayin…heh heh heh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Wlad is the most devistating, efficient, and effective fighter in the heavyweight division when he is on his game and I think the days where he's off his game are few and far between and his record shows that.

---

Agreed. Said that me very self in this very same thread. Three losses outta 51 fights aint nothing to take lightly.

My only complaint?

He never got to KICK THE FWOCKIN SHAT OUTTA JANE LOUISE!!!

Oh how I woulda loved that one!!!

Heh heh heh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

I 'm a Wlad fan first and then a Vitali fan.....and let me just say that everyone clammoring for them to fight each other is ridiculous NEVER have we asked two brothers to fight each other and it's wrong to ask it of them.

---

Ahhhh man…I hate that.

I would never NEVER want to see that.

It’s pretty stupid to even entertain the thoughts of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Just a Boxing Fan

Klitschko will murder this chump this time around.

---

You know...I can't see it any other way myself...that is unless ofcourse Wlad is psychologically fwocked, gasses out, or Brewster catches him like he did against Golota.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.

---

I do realize that...& I see where you are coming...but I think that you should realize the first 15 or 16 words that you stated.

That being said...you do make a good valid point...you do...& it'd good for debate...so I applaude you sincerely...but I do think that you are being a bit harsh...especially comparing him to Liston. ;D

One thing that does bother me a bit about your post is the thing about the Liston & Wlad comparison. Is it saying more that Wlad fought up & comers & bested them when they were becoming what they were or the fact that he didn't sharpen his teeth on worn talent?

I know that that sounds harsh...but honestly...I think that Wlad does deserve the benefit of the doubt...no matter how many times I've had to give it.

You feel me?

---

I'm not saying wlad is liston i'm saying that he's like liston because instead of fighting established greats, he's fighting people that made their own names in a different era so you kinda have to clean the slate and judge them on a whole different basis and thats hard for people to do objectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Yes "everytime"....3 times in over 50 fights that's like saying everytime Ali was on the rise he lost.

I'm not saying Wlad is as great as Ali but Wlad is a good fighter in this era and he'll be considered one of the best of the post Ali era...after his career is over I'll put him up there with Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, and Bowe

---

that "everytime" doesn't mean he always lost, that meant that everytime people where 100% sold on him and wrote his last loss off as a fluke he dropped the ball and made people go crazy. As i've said before he's doing better now than he has during any previous stretch of his career but he's still wlad and you never know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.

---

I do realize that...& I see where you are coming...but I think that you should realize the first 15 or 16 words that you stated.

That being said...you do make a good valid point...you do...& it'd good for debate...so I applaude you sincerely...but I do think that you are being a bit harsh...especially comparing him to Liston. ;D

One thing that does bother me a bit about your post is the thing about the Liston & Wlad comparison. Is it saying more that Wlad fought up & comers & bested them when they were becoming what they were or the fact that he didn't sharpen his teeth on worn talent?

I know that that sounds harsh...but honestly...I think that Wlad does deserve the benefit of the doubt...no matter how many times I've had to give it.

You feel me?

---

I'm not saying wlad is liston i'm saying that he's like liston because instead of fighting established greats, he's fighting people that made their own names in a different era so you kinda have to clean the slate and judge them on a whole different basis and thats hard for people to do objectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Yes "everytime"....3 times in over 50 fights that's like saying everytime Ali was on the rise he lost.

I'm not saying Wlad is as great as Ali but Wlad is a good fighter in this era and he'll be considered one of the best of the post Ali era...after his career is over I'll put him up there with Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, and Bowe

---

that "everytime" doesn't mean he always lost, that meant that everytime people where 100% sold on him and wrote his last loss off as a fluke he dropped the ball and made people go crazy. As i've said before he's doing better now than he has during any previous stretch of his career but he's still wlad and you never know.

---

Gotcha...on both...but I still say that he's worth giving the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.

---

I do realize that...& I see where you are coming...but I think that you should realize the first 15 or 16 words that you stated.

That being said...you do make a good valid point...you do...& it'd good for debate...so I applaude you sincerely...but I do think that you are being a bit harsh...especially comparing him to Liston. ;D

One thing that does bother me a bit about your post is the thing about the Liston & Wlad comparison. Is it saying more that Wlad fought up & comers & bested them when they were becoming what they were or the fact that he didn't sharpen his teeth on worn talent?

I know that that sounds harsh...but honestly...I think that Wlad does deserve the benefit of the doubt...no matter how many times I've had to give it.

You feel me?

---

I'm not saying wlad is liston i'm saying that he's like liston because instead of fighting established greats, he's fighting people that made their own names in a different era so you kinda have to clean the slate and judge them on a whole different basis and thats hard for people to do objectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Yes "everytime"....3 times in over 50 fights that's like saying everytime Ali was on the rise he lost.

I'm not saying Wlad is as great as Ali but Wlad is a good fighter in this era and he'll be considered one of the best of the post Ali era...after his career is over I'll put him up there with Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, and Bowe

---

that "everytime" doesn't mean he always lost, that meant that everytime people where 100% sold on him and wrote his last loss off as a fluke he dropped the ball and made people go crazy. As i've said before he's doing better now than he has during any previous stretch of his career but he's still wlad and you never know.

---

Gotcha...on both...but I still say that he's worth giving the benefit of the doubt.

---

This is the first step forward for putting away all doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wacko3205

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Punisher136

You have to realize its really hard to rate wlad because instead of following a lineage, you have to rate wlad like you rate liston. Liston didn't fight Marciano or any other names (established greats) from his previous era, He had to fight names that came into their own like Patterson.

---

I do realize that...& I see where you are coming...but I think that you should realize the first 15 or 16 words that you stated.

That being said...you do make a good valid point...you do...& it'd good for debate...so I applaude you sincerely...but I do think that you are being a bit harsh...especially comparing him to Liston. ;D

One thing that does bother me a bit about your post is the thing about the Liston & Wlad comparison. Is it saying more that Wlad fought up & comers & bested them when they were becoming what they were or the fact that he didn't sharpen his teeth on worn talent?

I know that that sounds harsh...but honestly...I think that Wlad does deserve the benefit of the doubt...no matter how many times I've had to give it.

You feel me?

---

I'm not saying wlad is liston i'm saying that he's like liston because instead of fighting established greats, he's fighting people that made their own names in a different era so you kinda have to clean the slate and judge them on a whole different basis and thats hard for people to do objectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyle

Yes "everytime"....3 times in over 50 fights that's like saying everytime Ali was on the rise he lost.

I'm not saying Wlad is as great as Ali but Wlad is a good fighter in this era and he'll be considered one of the best of the post Ali era...after his career is over I'll put him up there with Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, and Bowe

---

that "everytime" doesn't mean he always lost, that meant that everytime people where 100% sold on him and wrote his last loss off as a fluke he dropped the ball and made people go crazy. As i've said before he's doing better now than he has during any previous stretch of his career but he's still wlad and you never know.

---

Gotcha...on both...but I still say that he's worth giving the benefit of the doubt.

---

This is the first step forward for putting away all doubt.

---

Agreed.

Now aint that sumfin?!?!?! ;D