Is Evander Holyfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?

Ok so in the light of Evander's current rebirth is he the greatest heavyweight since Ali?

I'd say that if he wins another title he surely must be, as that would make him a 5 time world heavyweight champion equalling the great Ray Robinson's middleweight record.

He surely has to rank abover Tyson seeing as he destroyed him twice, once physical and the second time mentally. He's had greater longevity and fought and beat more credible opponents than Tyson.

Lennox Lewis is a difficult one. Widely regarded as the undisputed champion of the past 10/15 years Lewis did beat Holyfield twice (we all know he won the first fight) BUT he didn't fight anywhere near the level of competion that Evander has fought.

Evander has fought a whose who of the greatest fighters of modern times, Mike Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe etc and with the expection of Lewis has wins over them all. I know a few of these guys didn't want to fight Lewis but Holyfield's record has bigger names on it imo.

George Foreman is a living legend and one of the greatest of all time but would Holyfield winning a 5th title eclipse Foreman's comeback. Considering Hoylfield would be older than George and has comeback from seeming impossible odds I'd say yes again.

That leaves us with Larry Holmes and I'll admit here I'm not the best person to discuss as I've seen very few of his fights. He reigned for longer than any other modern champion and he continued to remain a force for years past his prime but he suffered imo for having his prime during a weaker era than Holyfield.


What do you guys think, where does Evander rate amongst the other greats?

Evander is second. Lennox is number one. In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes. Tyson was the main for for quite sometime but mostly in his younger days. I am going with longevity.

Evander is what every heavyweight should be though. Heart and dedication wise. He has great skills or had I should say. With Evander Holyfield his accomplishments speak for themselves

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Originally Posted by Punching Princess

Evander is second. Lennox is number one. In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes. Tyson was the main for for quite sometime but mostly in his younger days. I am going with longevity.

Evander is what every heavyweight should be though. Heart and dedication wise. He has great skills or had I should say. With Evander Holyfield his accomplishments speak for themselves

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Thanks for your opinion princess :coolclick: and remember to register your vote on the poll at the top. :)

I remember when Evander stopped Michael dokes in a brutal paced fight in 1989, knocked-down Ray Mercer with his face covered in blood ( the first to do so), when he came unbelievably from being totally dismissed by the HBO crew in 1995, dropped Bowe with a monster left hook and ran courageously into a right hand tryin to stop Big Daddy or when he awaited cool and calm for intimidating Mike Tyson during the play of the National Anthem back in 1996 - THIS GUY IS JUST AMAZING, He's Great no doubt, probably the Biggest Hearted Heavyweight since Ali yes, 44 years old and with that physic, discipline and conduct, still fighting to get a title shot? I Tell you what!!!

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon

Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon

Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.

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Personally I think Joe Louis is the most overratted heavyweight of all time. Fair enough he beat everybody but look at who he almost lost to, 175 lber Billy Conn and the 50's Butterbean Two Ton Gallento.

The names you mentioned just arn't even top 30 heavies of all time save maybe Norton.

I like Holmes but he never fought anybody special. And losing twice to a man who got blitzed by Tyson doesn't do his legacy much good either.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon

Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.

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Personally I think Joe Louis is the most overratted heavyweight of all time. Fair enough he beat everybody but look at who he almost lost to, 175 lber Billy Conn and the 50's Butterbean Two Ton Gallento.

The names you mentioned just arn't even top 30 heavies of all time save maybe Norton.

I like Holmes but he never fought anybody special. And losing twice to a man who got blitzed by Tyson doesn't do his legacy much good either.

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Holmes was past it then and still should of got decision in first fight and 2nd fight was just a robbery and i have never seen anyone on this forum or people i've met that thinks Spinks won the 2nd fight if you haven't ever watched it i suggest you go watch it and tell me Spinks should of won the 2nd fight ??


And also i would like to say Bilbo is that most Heavyweights never beat someone special or great in there prime because most of the time they never had a great in there era in first place or the great is way past his sell by date except Ali name me another Heavyweight that beat a great in his prime ??

Lets not forget the guys everyone thought where very good at the time

Trever Berbick,Renaldo Snipes,Marvis Frazier(only two losses of his career were Homes/Tyson),James Bonecrusher Smith,and Carl The Truth Williams
And before we get too out of hand with the Holyfield stuff,yeah nice win,but that WAS a 41 year old Lou Savarese in there,who promptly retired right after the fight

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon

Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.

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Personally I think Joe Louis is the most overratted heavyweight of all time. Fair enough he beat everybody but look at who he almost lost to, 175 lber Billy Conn and the 50's Butterbean Two Ton Gallento.

The names you mentioned just arn't even top 30 heavies of all time save maybe Norton.

I like Holmes but he never fought anybody special. And losing twice to a man who got blitzed by Tyson doesn't do his legacy much good either.

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Holmes was past it then and still should of got decision in first fight and 2nd fight was just a robbery and i have never seen anyone on this forum or people i've met that thinks Spinks won the 2nd fight if you haven't ever watched it i suggest you go watch it and tell me Spinks should of won the 2nd fight ??

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Nah I agree he didn't lose the second fight. You make good points I'm just saying that Holme's resume isn't stacked with all time greats like Holyfields is.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets not forget the guys everyone thought where very good at the time

Trever Berbick,Renaldo Snipes,Marvis Frazier(only two losses of his career were Homes/Tyson),James Bonecrusher Smith,and Carl The Truth Williams
And before we get too out of hand with the Holyfield stuff,yeah nice win,but that WAS a 41 year old Lou Savarese in there,who promptly retired right after the fight

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Im big fan of Holmes but Smith wasn't regarded as good he only got a shot at the title by koing Frank Bruno in last round when he had lost near enough every round and Frazier was never considered good and Berbick wasn't a top contender either but others i agree with they were considered top contenders.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets not forget the guys everyone thought where very good at the time

Trever Berbick,Renaldo Snipes,Marvis Frazier(only two losses of his career were Homes/Tyson),James Bonecrusher Smith,and Carl The Truth Williams
And before we get too out of hand with the Holyfield stuff,yeah nice win,but that WAS a 41 year old Lou Savarese in there,who promptly retired right after the fight

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Im big fan of Holmes but Smith wasn't regarded as good he only got a shot at the title by koing Frank in last round when he had lost near enough every round and Frazier was never considered good and Berbick wasn't a top contender either but others i agree with they were considered top contenders.

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Marvis did beat Bugner,Tillis,and Smith,and like I said,his only two losses were to prime Tyson and prime Holmes
Oh yeah Leroy Jones should be on the list,only loss was Holmes

Lewis and Holmes were both better heavyweights than Holyfield. You could make a good argument that Holyfield is better than both PFP because of his work at crusierweight.

Since Holmes I think he is the best, but I could see Lennox taking that place too. Like Sweet Pea said I think p4p he was better than Lennox for sure.

I went with prime Tyson but if not Tyson then Lennox Lewis

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Originally Posted by TYSONMAYWEATHER

I went with prime Tyson but if not Tyson then Lennox Lewis

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Do you mean skillwise or what they achieved ??

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Punching Princess

Evander is second. Lennox is number one. In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes. Tyson was the main for for quite sometime but mostly in his younger days. I am going with longevity.

Evander is what every heavyweight should be though. Heart and dedication wise. He has great skills or had I should say. With Evander Holyfield his accomplishments speak for themselves

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Thanks for your opinion princess :coolclick: and remember to register your vote on the poll at the top. :)

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I voted Lennox

Holmes, he stopped everybody who he boxed from evolving at his best I would give him a shout against anyone. Thats a big shout.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by TYSONMAYWEATHER

I went with prime Tyson but if not Tyson then Lennox Lewis

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Do you mean skillwise or what they achieved ??

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Lennox achieved more at Heavy than Holyfield in my eyes Holyfields reigns as heavyweight champ were short and Tyson was better than Holyfield when he was in his prime

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Holmes, he stopped everybody who he boxed from evolving at his best I would give him a shout against anyone. Thats a big shout.

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Totally agree Holmes skills are very underrated.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Holmes, he stopped everybody who he boxed from evolving at his best I would give him a shout against anyone. Thats a big shout.

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Totally agree Holmes skills are very underrated.

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Holmes suffered from coming in to his own at the tale end of one of the greatest eras in HW history
He fought good quality opponents,but they werent nearly as impressive as what was around in say 73,so people took an attitude like he didnt fight anyone

either him or larry holmes. if tyson never went 2 jail--then he could have well been. evander is what the sport of boxing is all about

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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homes is a legend --he however thinks that he is the greatest heavy 2 ever 2 lace up the gloves. but because of his oppostion he cant be, ali was the greatest

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Originally Posted by undefeated

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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homes is a legend --he however thinks that he is the greatest heavy 2 ever 2 lace up the gloves. but because of his oppostion he cant be, ali was the greatest

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I agree with you. How do you think he would have done had he faced Holyfields opponents? Tyson twice, Lewis twice, Bowe three times, Foreman and Holyfield himself?

His record is phenomenal though and he did have two really late title shots one as recent as 95 against McCall when he was about 46 :o

And he still beat Butterbean at over 50 years old. Thinking about it he'd make a great next opponent for Kimbo Slice :D

Since evander's starting fighting weight was 169 lbs, in the pros, i'll give him extra accolades. The others started and finished their careers as heavyweights. Holyfield had to overcome the weight disadvantage.

HOLYFIELD IS THE BEST, MOST EXCITING, MOST BELOVED, MOST RESPECTED HEAVYWEIGHT SINCE ALI !!!(LOOK AT ALL HIS PPV $$$)
HE IS NOT THE MOST TALENTED THOUGH. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT LENNOX LEWIS HAS HAD THE MOST TALENT SINCE HOLMES.
BUT TALENT DOES NOT MAKE A GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT (AS MOST PEOPLE DO NOT PUT LENNOX IN THAT CATEGORY).
WHAT MADE GREAT HEAVYWEIGHTS WAS WHAT THEY GAVE THE FANS, AND ALTHOUGH HOLYFIELD WAS NOT THE MOST TALENTED HEAVYWEIGHT, HE GOT MORE OUT OF THE TALENT THAN ANY OTHER HEAVYWEIGHT AND CRUISERWEIGHT. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE GREW TO LOVE HIM AND THOSE THAT DIDN'T, CAME ON THE BANDWAGON WHEN HE "ICE'D TYSON, AND THEN BROKE HIM INTO A MELTDOWN IN THE SECOND".

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT - HOLYFIELD HAS BEEN THE MAN SINCE ALI. HE WAS WHAT ALL HEAVYWEIGHTS SHOULD STRIVE TO BE.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIS GREATNESS AND LENNOX'S GOODNESS IS SIMPLY THIS....
HOLYFIELD WOULD FIGHT TO WIN, WHILE LENNOX WOULD MOSTLY BOX NOT TO LOSE!!!

THAT MAY GET YOU SOME WINS, BUT IT DOESN'T GET YOU GREATNESS.

HOLYFIELDS LIST OF OPPONENTS OUTWEIGHS ALL OTHERS IN HIS ERA (1990-2000)

NOTE: AFTER HOLYFIELDS REVENGE KO OF MOORER IN 1997 (AS HE WAS RE-UNIFIYING THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS)
NONE OTHER THAN RING MAGAZINE MADE HIM THE #3 HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL TIME (I BELIEVE JUST BEHIND JOE LUIS AND ALI)

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT HOLFIELD WAS ALREADY PAST HIS PRIME AT THAT POINT.
HOLY WAS PAST HIS PRIME WHEN HE FOUGHT LENNOX, BUT HE DEFINITELY WON THE SECOND AND SHOULD HAVE RETIRED AS UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION AGAIN.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT HOLYFIELD IS ALREADY AN UNDISPUTED CHAMPION IN THE 80'S, 90'S AND NOW MAYBE IN THE 2000'S !!!
HE ALREADY HAS BEEN A CHAMPION IN EACH DECADE, AND HE NEEDS TO GET AN HONORARY GOLD MEDAL FOR THE ONE HE WAS SO WRONGLY DENIED TO FIGHT FOR IN THE 84' OLYMPICS. (WHY HAS ROY JONES GOT ONE AND HOLY NOT???)

THAT IS GREATNESS!!!

HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING NEEDS MORE FIGHTERS LIKE A PRIME HOLYFIELD RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT!!!

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Originally Posted by JulianJaz

HOLYFIELD IS THE BEST, MOST EXCITING, MOST BELOVED, MOST RESPECTED HEAVYWEIGHT SINCE ALI !!!(LOOK AT ALL HIS PPV $$$)
HE IS NOT THE MOST TALENTED THOUGH. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT LENNOX LEWIS HAS HAD THE MOST TALENT SINCE HOLMES.
BUT TALENT DOES NOT MAKE A GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT (AS MOST PEOPLE DO NOT PUT LENNOX IN THAT CATEGORY).
WHAT MADE GREAT HEAVYWEIGHTS WAS WHAT THEY GAVE THE FANS, AND ALTHOUGH HOLYFIELD WAS NOT THE MOST TALENTED HEAVYWEIGHT, HE GOT MORE OUT OF THE TALENT THAN ANY OTHER HEAVYWEIGHT AND CRUISERWEIGHT. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE GREW TO LOVE HIM AND THOSE THAT DIDN'T, CAME ON THE BANDWAGON WHEN HE "ICE'D TYSON, AND THEN BROKE HIM INTO A MELTDOWN IN THE SECOND".

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT - HOLYFIELD HAS BEEN THE MAN SINCE ALI. HE WAS WHAT ALL HEAVYWEIGHTS SHOULD STRIVE TO BE.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIS GREATNESS AND LENNOX'S GOODNESS IS SIMPLY THIS....
HOLYFIELD WOULD FIGHT TO WIN, WHILE LENNOX WOULD MOSTLY BOX NOT TO LOSE!!!

THAT MAY GET YOU SOME WINS, BUT IT DOESN'T GET YOU GREATNESS.

HOLYFIELDS LIST OF OPPONENTS OUTWEIGHS ALL OTHERS IN HIS ERA (1990-2000)

NOTE: AFTER HOLYFIELDS REVENGE KO OF MOORER IN 1997 (AS HE WAS RE-UNIFIYING THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS)
NONE OTHER THAN RING MAGAZINE MADE HIM THE #3 HEAVYWEIGHT OF ALL TIME (I BELIEVE JUST BEHIND JOE LUIS AND ALI)

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT HOLFIELD WAS ALREADY PAST HIS PRIME AT THAT POINT.
HOLY WAS PAST HIS PRIME WHEN HE FOUGHT LENNOX, BUT HE DEFINITELY WON THE SECOND AND SHOULD HAVE RETIRED AS UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION AGAIN.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT HOLYFIELD IS ALREADY AN UNDISPUTED CHAMPION IN THE 80'S, 90'S AND NOW MAYBE IN THE 2000'S !!!
HE ALREADY HAS BEEN A CHAMPION IN EACH DECADE, AND HE NEEDS TO GET AN HONORARY GOLD MEDAL FOR THE ONE HE WAS SO WRONGLY DENIED TO FIGHT FOR IN THE 84' OLYMPICS. (WHY HAS ROY JONES GOT ONE AND HOLY NOT???)

THAT IS GREATNESS!!!

HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING NEEDS MORE FIGHTERS LIKE A PRIME HOLYFIELD RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT!!!

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Great posting although you didn't need to scream it at us :o :coolclick:

I think Holyfield will be remembered more than Lennox Lewis just as Frazier is remembered more than Larry Holmes.

Holyfield epitomises the never say die warrior spirit more than any other fighter of the past 30 years.

Evander skill wise is probably not.. but... evander posseses a different kind of greatness his training his willingness to be a warrior awesome heart.... not saying evander dont have great skills just that overall a couple of guys tyson (on paper to name one posses better power.) However even back in tysons prime I beleived holy would win epsecailly after watching an interview i think evander thought Mike was a little fragile and when the going got tough hed wilt... and you know what he did

great post bilbo (cc)
I have said it once, and i'll say it again. Lennox lewis was an overated fighter. He DOMINATED his era. However his era was filled with has beens, never-weres. His greatest acomplishments were over shot or past their prime fighters. ala tyson and Holyfield.
If lennox lewis had such a hard time with holyfield with holyfield being past his prime, then wtf woulda happend earlier.. Also if you put tyson against lewis at tyson peak lennox lewis would not have a job doing HBO commentary because he would have no head in which to speak out of. The one time lennox lewis faces PRIME opposition he gets EXTREMELY lucky and his opponent gets cut. FOrcing lennox lewis to get a TKO. Then retires.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Lewis and Holmes were both better heavyweights than Holyfield. You could make a good argument that Holyfield is better than both PFP because of his work at crusierweight.

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cc sweetpea. I think Lewis and Holmes were just better at consistent wins and they both had power.. Yes Holmes had power. At least to shut a guy down and make him into a shell. By the way, if you look at quality of opposition Holyfield is the greatest ever. Look at his resume. Incredible. Just at heavyweight. Michael Dokes, Buster Douglas,George Foreman,Bert Cooper, Michael Moorer (2 times), Riddick Bowe (3 times) Lennox Lewis(2 times), Mike Tyson (2 times) , Vaughn Bean ,Ray Mercer, James Toney, Chris Byrd, Lou Savarese, Fres Aquendo, Larry Holmes, Bobby Czyz, Larry Donald, Hasim Rahman, John Ruiz (3 times), Alex Stewart, James Tillis, Pinklon Thomas, Adlison Rodriquez. and the list goes on and on.. Look at that record. Unbelievable quality of opposition. On that alone he is great.. And that record is better than anyone at heavyweight as far as opposition then probably anyone in heavyweight history. Not saying he could beat them all but that record is astounding.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by undefeated

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.

Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?

There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.

I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.

Really who did he beat?

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homes is a legend --he however thinks that he is the greatest heavy 2 ever 2 lace up the gloves. but because of his oppostion he cant be, ali was the greatest

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I agree with you. How do you think he would have done had he faced Holyfields opponents? Tyson twice, Lewis twice, Bowe three times, Foreman and Holyfield himself?

His record is phenomenal though and he did have two really late title shots one as recent as 95 against McCall when he was about 46 :o

And he still beat Butterbean at over 50 years old. Thinking about it he'd make a great next opponent for Kimbo Slice :D

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And that was razor thin close fight what i thought Holmes won.

I don't know if it was Evander's opponent (Lou Savarese) or what but he looked good like he did ten years ago.I hope the best for him.

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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

Lewis and Holmes were both better heavyweights than Holyfield. You could make a good argument that Holyfield is better than both PFP because of his work at crusierweight.

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cc sweetpea. I think Lewis and Holmes were just better at consistent wins and they both had power.. Yes Holmes had power. At least to shut a guy down and make him into a shell. By the way, if you look at quality of opposition Holyfield is the greatest ever. Look at his resume. Incredible. Just at heavyweight. Michael Dokes, Buster Douglas,George Foreman,Bert Cooper, Michael Moorer (2 times), Riddick Bowe (3 times) Lennox Lewis(2 times), Mike Tyson (2 times) , Vaughn Bean ,Ray Mercer, James Toney, Chris Byrd, Lou Savarese, Fres Aquendo, Larry Holmes, Bobby Czyz, Larry Donald, Hasim Rahman, John Ruiz (3 times), Alex Stewart, James Tillis, Pinklon Thomas, Adlison Rodriquez. and the list goes on and on.. Look at that record. Unbelievable quality of opposition. On that alone he is great.. And that record is better than anyone at heavyweight as far as opposition then probably anyone in heavyweight history. Not saying he could beat them all but that record is astounding.

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I'll take Ali's list of opponents over Holyfield's, but Evander's list is certainly impressive.

It's been a long time since Ali was around, so the question is really about an elite level of fighter.

Firstly, I do think that Holyfield is an all-time great...... heart, dedication, big fights etc.

I do think that quite a few people would have given him real problems - prime Foreman would have been too powerful, prime Holmes, to big and too slick, Prime Tyson too brutal. BUT Evander woukld have been competitive with them all and there are probably not hat many fighters you could say that about, period.

for one second im not doubting evanders fighting resume because it is certainly outstanding but i do think there is a double standard when comparing one boxer to another people like Lou Savarese, i mean people are saying its a good win, fair does but tyson never gets props for destroying this guy when talking about records

same goes for Larry Holmes wasnt he past it in the tyson fight??? people are quick to jump in saying tyson fought nobodys but still add the same names to evanders record as some sort of great accomplishment

Alex Stewart
James Tillis
Marvis Frazier
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tubbs
Mike spinks

the on top of that mike fought people like
Trevor Berbick
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Frank Bruno
Carl Williams
Donovan Ruddock
Francois Botha


who are jus as if not better then a lot of the fighters on holyfields record,, i dont mean for this to sound like im hating on holyfield cos im not he is a great, i just think its a bit wrong to compare him to ali,frazier, prob even foreman & a prime tyson (not for accomplishments more on boxing strengths)

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Originally Posted by woodzo

for one second im not doubting evanders fighting resume because it is certainly outstanding but i do think there is a double standard when comparing one boxer to another people like Lou Savarese, i mean people are saying its a good win, fair does but tyson never gets props for destroying this guy when talking about records

same goes for Larry Holmes wasnt he past it in the tyson fight??? people are quick to jump in saying tyson fought nobodys but still add the same names to evanders record as some sort of great accomplishment

Alex Stewart
James Tillis
Marvis Frazier
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tubbs
Mike spinks

the on top of that mike fought people like
Trevor Berbick
Tony Tucker
Tyrell Biggs
Frank Bruno
Carl Williams
Donovan Ruddock
Francois Botha


who are jus as if not better then a lot of the fighters on holyfields record,, i dont mean for this to sound like im hating on holyfield cos im not he is a great, i just think its a bit wrong to compare him to ali,frazier, prob even foreman & a prime tyson (not for accomplishments more on boxing strengths)

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There is no doubt Tyson was spectacular in destroying B- level fighters but he never beat a legitimate A lister, unless you count the much smaller Spinks and the much older Holmes.

The fact he came up short 3 times against elite competition is a permanent blot on his record.

I still believe Tyson is an all time great but for me Lewis, Holmes and Hoylfield all rank above him.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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yes Holmes did dominate, and he made his title defences quite clearly, but yet Holyfield managed to do something that Holmes never was able to do, and he did it 3 times, which was re-win a heavyweight title, he is the only 4 time heavyweight champion, IMO he should be ranked higher than Lewis because Lewis' biggest wins are against fighters way past their primes (Holyfield, Tyson), Holy didn't loose a fight so badly like Lewis until way out of his prime (both Bowe losses were close even the TKO, Moorer the first fight, i had Holyfield winning and yet on the scorecards he didn't loose by much, and even against Lewis he gave him hell)

You bring up some good points about Evander ,hard to argue . I would have to say if he wins another champinonship of the world ther could be no argument about him being the best since Ali. Not to mention he is a small heavyweight fighting this big guys.

I cant see Lewis being better than him seeing that Lennox got Koed by two bums . Even thought he came back and beat them both Evander always comes 100% . Can you imagine looking like him at his age . Im 37 and dont like to take my shirt off at the beach .LOL

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.

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Holmes Era wasnt nearly as competitive as the Era Holyfield fought in ;)