Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
Actually Ishe Smith's daily mailbag on boxingtalk got me thinking about this and I think he makes a good point.
If Floyd had been allowed to retain his welterweight title when moving up to fight Oscar, he could by moving back down to 140 and defeating Hatton join Henry Armstrong as a three weight consecutive world champion.
As long he's making the madatory defenses on then why not allow this? It could only be good for boxing as it provides a real talking point in the sport.
I'd personally love to see fighters aiming to rule 3 divisions at the same time, it would give them far more quality opponents to choose from and enable the truly elite fighters to attempt even greater feats.
I'm sure the lure of being a three weight consecutive champ would be too great for a Floyd Mayweather to resist and that he'd come down to 140 to face Hatton, then try and defend his 147 belt before maybe trying to fight Taylor and become a 4 weight consecutive world champ.
What do you guys think about this? I'm all for giving boxers new records to chase and new ways to showcase their talents and immortalise themselves in the ring.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
I think it'd be a great idea within reason. If wonjongkam got a hold of a much bigger title like 140, i wouldn't wanna it to be allowed because he'd have to fluxuate almost 30 pounds between fights to be competative and that would take its toll an ultimately shorten his career significantly. On the other hand floyd holding it between 140 and 154 isn't all that bad because you don't necessarily have to be 154 to fight at that weight and him being naturally much smaller than 140 he could do it easily. Within a span of three weight classes it should be allowed but once you get up to 4 or more, you start pushing it.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weigh
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Originally Posted by Punisher136
I think it'd be a great idea within reason. If wonjongkam got a hold of a much bigger title like 140, i wouldn't wanna it to be allowed because he'd have to fluxuate almost 30 pounds between fights to be competative and that would take its toll an ultimately shorten his career significantly. On the other hand floyd holding it between 140 and 154 isn't all that bad because you don't necessarily have to be 154 to fight at that weight and him being naturally much smaller than 140 he could do it easily. Within a span of three weight classes it should be allowed but once you get up to 4 or more, you start pushing it.
I doubt the fighters themselves would want to take too big a risk anyhow and someone like Wonjongkam wouldn't even attempt it.
It would be great to see the elite fighters all attempting to outdo each other by moving up and down the weights and defending two or three titles at once though.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
I think a boxer if they win there title in the ring should only lose it in the ring. So have no objection if they win seperate titles in seperate fights. But I dont think we should allow what happened when Sugar Ray Leopard boxed Donny Lalonde they not only boxed for Lalondes light heavy title but also the vacant super middle weight title. This shouldnt have been allowed and Ray Leonard should never have been allowed to call himself the light heavyweight champion.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
I believe that a fight should be capable of negotiating for multiple weight titles as well but only if the two boxers in question are undisputed champs at their respective weight. If a single boxer holds multiple titles, they shouldn't ALL be on the line for a single fight. Of course any champion has the right to vacate any title as they do now. I think that system would work out pretty well.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weigh
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Actually Ishe Smith's daily mailbag on boxingtalk got me thinking about this and I think he makes a good point.
If Floyd had been allowed to retain his welterweight title when moving up to fight Oscar, he could by moving back down to 140 and defeating Hatton join Henry Armstrong as a three weight consecutive world champion.
As long he's making the madatory defenses on then why not allow this? It could only be good for boxing as it provides a real talking point in the sport.
I'd personally love to see fighters aiming to rule 3 divisions at the same time, it would give them far more quality opponents to choose from and enable the truly elite fighters to attempt even greater feats.
I'm sure the lure of being a three weight consecutive champ would be too great for a Floyd Mayweather to resist and that he'd come down to 140 to face Hatton, then try and defend his 147 belt before maybe trying to fight Taylor and become a 4 weight consecutive world champ.
What do you guys think about this? I'm all for giving boxers new records to chase and new ways to showcase their talents and immortalise themselves in the ring.
Actually - at least according to their official site - PBF currently holds the WBC title at both 147 and 154. Also he holds the Ring belt at 147, while being rated #3 at 154 also.
Anyway, I kind of like your idea, but my initial concern is what will happen if the fighter, campaigning at multiple divisions, loses? I mean, does PBF keep his belt at 154, if (however unlikely it seems) he was to lose to Hatton at 147 (or 140)? Surely the idea of weight classes must be that the 154 champ is stronger than the 140 champ, so it would seem a bit backwards, if he did. On the other hand, Hatton may still be the best boxer in the world at 140, even if he did lose a fight, when moving up. Perhaps a fighter should only be allowed to keep his belt, while campaigning in another division when he is the one moving up in weights?
Also, there is the obvious problem of different alphabet groups. How confusing would it be to the casual fans, if Hatton and Mayweather meet for the IBO 140 title, WBA 147 title and the WBC 154 title for example? And if the title fights have to be between two fighters holding the same alphabelt in two bordering weightclasses, it kind of limits the number of mouthwatering prospects for fights. PBF vs Witter, any takers?
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Actually Ishe Smith's daily mailbag on boxingtalk got me thinking about this and I think he makes a good point.
If Floyd had been allowed to retain his welterweight title when moving up to fight Oscar, he could by moving back down to 140 and defeating Hatton join Henry Armstrong as a three weight consecutive world champion.
As long he's making the madatory defenses on then why not allow this? It could only be good for boxing as it provides a real talking point in the sport.
I'd personally love to see fighters aiming to rule 3 divisions at the same time, it would give them far more quality opponents to choose from and enable the truly elite fighters to attempt even greater feats.
I'm sure the lure of being a three weight consecutive champ would be too great for a Floyd Mayweather to resist and that he'd come down to 140 to face Hatton, then try and defend his 147 belt before maybe trying to fight Taylor and become a 4 weight consecutive world champ.
What do you guys think about this? I'm all for giving boxers new records to chase and new ways to showcase their talents and immortalise themselves in the ring.
Not a terrible idea, but at the stage of a fighter's career like Floyd is, I don't think he would take the bullshit mandatory defense against a nobody. If the organisations rankings actually ranked by quality, then this idea could work.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
They still allow it in the womens division,Wolfe held belts in 4 different divisions
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
They still allow it in the womens division,Wolfe held belts in 4 different divisions
Thats different tho. There's not as many fighters and one person holding them in several different weight classes actually helps things out to a degree. Having a champ with many belts almost gives the illusion that there's more fighters in women's boxing than there actually is you know what i'm saying? If they all belonged to different fighters they'd only have like 20 challengers at best for their division but when one person has them there's a pretty big list of opponents to chose from.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weigh
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Originally Posted by Mikkel_K
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Actually Ishe Smith's daily mailbag on boxingtalk got me thinking about this and I think he makes a good point.
If Floyd had been allowed to retain his welterweight title when moving up to fight Oscar, he could by moving back down to 140 and defeating Hatton join Henry Armstrong as a three weight consecutive world champion.
As long he's making the madatory defenses on then why not allow this? It could only be good for boxing as it provides a real talking point in the sport.
I'd personally love to see fighters aiming to rule 3 divisions at the same time, it would give them far more quality opponents to choose from and enable the truly elite fighters to attempt even greater feats.
I'm sure the lure of being a three weight consecutive champ would be too great for a Floyd Mayweather to resist and that he'd come down to 140 to face Hatton, then try and defend his 147 belt before maybe trying to fight Taylor and become a 4 weight consecutive world champ.
What do you guys think about this? I'm all for giving boxers new records to chase and new ways to showcase their talents and immortalise themselves in the ring.
Actually - at least according to their official site - PBF currently holds the WBC title at both 147 and 154. Also he holds the Ring belt at 147, while being rated #3 at 154 also.
Anyway, I kind of like your idea, but my initial concern is what will happen if the fighter, campaigning at multiple divisions, loses? I mean, does PBF keep his belt at 154, if (however unlikely it seems) he was to lose to Hatton at 147 (or 140)? Surely the idea of weight classes must be that the 154 champ is stronger than the 140 champ, so it would seem a bit backwards, if he did. On the other hand, Hatton may still be the best boxer in the world at 140, even if he did lose a fight, when moving up. Perhaps a fighter should only be allowed to keep his belt, while campaigning in another division when he is the one moving up in weights?
Also, there is the obvious problem of different alphabet groups. How confusing would it be to the casual fans, if Hatton and Mayweather meet for the IBO 140 title, WBA 147 title and the WBC 154 title for example? And if the title fights have to be between two fighters holding the same alphabelt in two bordering weightclasses, it kind of limits the number of mouthwatering prospects for fights. PBF vs Witter, any takers?
They way I think it should work is that you can hold titles in different weights but when defending a title only the title/s that are in the weight category you defned in are at stake.
so if Mayweather was 140, 147 and 154 lb champion and lost to Hatton at 140 Hatton would win all the belts that Mayweather held at 140 but none of the others.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weigh
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel_K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Actually Ishe Smith's daily mailbag on boxingtalk got me thinking about this and I think he makes a good point.
If Floyd had been allowed to retain his welterweight title when moving up to fight Oscar, he could by moving back down to 140 and defeating Hatton join Henry Armstrong as a three weight consecutive world champion.
As long he's making the madatory defenses on then why not allow this? It could only be good for boxing as it provides a real talking point in the sport.
I'd personally love to see fighters aiming to rule 3 divisions at the same time, it would give them far more quality opponents to choose from and enable the truly elite fighters to attempt even greater feats.
I'm sure the lure of being a three weight consecutive champ would be too great for a Floyd Mayweather to resist and that he'd come down to 140 to face Hatton, then try and defend his 147 belt before maybe trying to fight Taylor and become a 4 weight consecutive world champ.
What do you guys think about this? I'm all for giving boxers new records to chase and new ways to showcase their talents and immortalise themselves in the ring.
Actually - at least according to their official site - PBF currently holds the WBC title at both 147 and 154. Also he holds the Ring belt at 147, while being rated #3 at 154 also.
Anyway, I kind of like your idea, but my initial concern is what will happen if the fighter, campaigning at multiple divisions, loses? I mean, does PBF keep his belt at 154, if (however unlikely it seems) he was to lose to Hatton at 147 (or 140)? Surely the idea of weight classes must be that the 154 champ is stronger than the 140 champ, so it would seem a bit backwards, if he did. On the other hand, Hatton may still be the best boxer in the world at 140, even if he did lose a fight, when moving up. Perhaps a fighter should only be allowed to keep his belt, while campaigning in another division when he is the one moving up in weights?
Also, there is the obvious problem of different alphabet groups. How confusing would it be to the casual fans, if Hatton and Mayweather meet for the IBO 140 title, WBA 147 title and the WBC 154 title for example? And if the title fights have to be between two fighters holding the same alphabelt in two bordering weightclasses, it kind of limits the number of mouthwatering prospects for fights. PBF vs Witter, any takers?
They way I think it should work is that you can hold titles in different weights but when defending a title only the title/s that are in the weight category you defned in are at stake.
so if Mayweather was 140, 147 and 154 lb champion and lost to Hatton at 140 Hatton would win all the belts that Mayweather held at 140 but none of the others.
Thats kinda how it is now except for the mandatories that mess everything up.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
Only if they were willing to go back down or up to defend it.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
You actually can keep your title if you move up and fight for another title as long as it's within the same sanctioning body. Floyd is still the WBC Welterweight champion, he just vacated his 154 title. I believe Mosely is the interm titleist.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
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Originally Posted by the wiz
You actually can keep your title if you move up and fight for another title as long as it's within the same sanctioning body. Floyd is still the WBC Welterweight champion, he just vacated his 154 title. I believe Mosely is the interm titleist.
You're right. Margarito went up to 154 and lost against Santos (a close headbutt TD), then came back to his 147 title.
I don't know if that would be good for boxing, because one person would be bottlenecked at the top. All I am saying is, the sanctioning bodies would find a way to strip all of the belts so they could get multiple fees.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weights?
I think what needs to happen is not strip a guy if he's going to unify a belt rahter than face his mandatory. Now that would be great for boxing.
Re: Would boxing be better if a fighter could remain champion at different weigh
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkel_K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Actually Ishe Smith's daily mailbag on boxingtalk got me thinking about this and I think he makes a good point.
If Floyd had been allowed to retain his welterweight title when moving up to fight Oscar, he could by moving back down to 140 and defeating Hatton join Henry Armstrong as a three weight consecutive world champion.
As long he's making the madatory defenses on then why not allow this? It could only be good for boxing as it provides a real talking point in the sport.
I'd personally love to see fighters aiming to rule 3 divisions at the same time, it would give them far more quality opponents to choose from and enable the truly elite fighters to attempt even greater feats.
I'm sure the lure of being a three weight consecutive champ would be too great for a Floyd Mayweather to resist and that he'd come down to 140 to face Hatton, then try and defend his 147 belt before maybe trying to fight Taylor and become a 4 weight consecutive world champ.
What do you guys think about this? I'm all for giving boxers new records to chase and new ways to showcase their talents and immortalise themselves in the ring.
Actually - at least according to their official site - PBF currently holds the WBC title at both 147 and 154. Also he holds the Ring belt at 147, while being rated #3 at 154 also.
Anyway, I kind of like your idea, but my initial concern is what will happen if the fighter, campaigning at multiple divisions, loses? I mean, does PBF keep his belt at 154, if (however unlikely it seems) he was to lose to Hatton at 147 (or 140)? Surely the idea of weight classes must be that the 154 champ is stronger than the 140 champ, so it would seem a bit backwards, if he did. On the other hand, Hatton may still be the best boxer in the world at 140, even if he did lose a fight, when moving up. Perhaps a fighter should only be allowed to keep his belt, while campaigning in another division when he is the one moving up in weights?
Also, there is the obvious problem of different alphabet groups. How confusing would it be to the casual fans, if Hatton and Mayweather meet for the IBO 140 title, WBA 147 title and the WBC 154 title for example? And if the title fights have to be between two fighters holding the same alphabelt in two bordering weightclasses, it kind of limits the number of mouthwatering prospects for fights. PBF vs Witter, any takers?
They way I think it should work is that you can hold titles in different weights but when defending a title only the title/s that are in the weight category you defned in are at stake.
so if Mayweather was 140, 147 and 154 lb champion and lost to Hatton at 140 Hatton would win all the belts that Mayweather held at 140 but none of the others.
While I understand your idea, I am still not sold on this. In my world the whole notion of weightclasses imply a hierarchy. The champ at a higher weight is always able to beat the champ at a lower weight. Therefore it would screw up the system if Mayweather kept the 147 and 154 titles after losing at 140. And even more it would screw things up, if Mayweather kept 140 and 154, but lost the 147.
(Now I understand that this does not necessarily make sense - e.g. Mayweather-Hatton at 154 is a completely different fight than the same fight at 140, and it is not completely ridiculous to believe that Hatton is the best at 140, but wouldnt be the best at 154. Hmm, perhaps the even better example would be Hatton-Cotto, where I'd fancy the former at 140, the latter at 147. PBF I would fancy at any weight.)
Still - in my opinion - whenever you lose a fight at a lower weight, then your titles in higher weights should be removed as well. Obviously it would be fair, if you didnt fall completely out of the picture, but perhaps just fell to the #1 position, mandatory for a fight for the now vacant title. Then somebody would still have to defeat you to gain your title.
One last note - this is all based on the notion that you can keep your titles by defending them. 3-weight champions means 3 (mandatory) defenses in a year. Not much room for further unifying there... And boxing is in more dire need of unifications than multiple-weights-at-the-same-time champions - to keep with the PBF example, I would rather see him face Cotto, than to see him face Witter and Cotto face M'Baye.
