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this isnt a floyd nut hugging thread, i just have a question ................ if and i do mean IF, floyd beats hatton and than winner of cotto, margarito, what would u say bout him? do you think that would be enough or will he have to fight more than that to become a legend?
Become a serial killer or try and assassinate the president are his best chances of achieving legendary status.
Nothing he can do in the ring will ever be good enough and he;ll never have mainstream appeal.
Fight more.
And not stylistically - I mean more matches.
I don;t think that will matter. He's already had almost as many fights in his career as Ray Leonard had.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollins
His biggest problem is that boxing isn't the sport it once was. There arn't the superstars any more and even if fought the very best at 140, 147 and 154 there still wouldn't be any superstar names on his record.
Mayweather will never be as big as Leonard, Hagler, Duran etc no matter how many fights he has and who he beats.
If he beat hatton, mosley, Cotto, Winky, and Taylor he would be a top 10 fighter there's ever been, but asking him to do up to MW to fight Winky and Taylor is asking a hell of a lot of him considering what weight he started out at!
In fact thinking more he could have a case for being top 3, that would be one hell of a record to retire with.
It would definitely make him one of the greatest ever, BUT I doubt he would get any more mainstream appeal whastoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by gudnite vienna
In 20 or 30 years he's destined to join the likes of Wille Pep, Harry Greb, Gene Tunney and Carlos Monzon, i.e great fighters but ones only hardcore fight fans will have ever heard of.
He'll never be well known in the same way as Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler or even De La Hoya and Trinidad.
...i don't think this guy could beat five guys in one night and get anymore respect than he already has.....people's mind is made up about him..either you like him or you'll spend the rest of your life waiting for the day someone beats him that's it. There are very few people like me that really don't root so much for any particular fighter and can both dislike him and still give him the props he desearves well at least in my opinion. His undeafeated record and that pic of him after the de la hoya fight holding up yet another belt in another division speak loudly for me no matter how he has accomplished it......we all know his style we all know what to expect when he enters the ring including his opponets and still no one has beat him..most they do is complain after loosing about his style etc......he could be 100-0 and people will still have shit to say about how horrible he is....
It's simple:
Clean out 147.
I agree, if he cleans out 147, which is probably boxing's deepest division, I think he'll go down as legendary in the eyes of, like Bilbo says, hardcore boxing fans. I agree that he'll never attain the same status as Ray Leonard etc. but very few have, and it doesn't mean he's not as talented as they are, its just that boxing is in a lull these days and isn't a popular sport anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
PBF's style just isn't as crowd pleasing at the higher weights and people seem to focus more on that rather than the accomplishments he has achieved. But when you look at where he started, and how he has seemingly breezed through the higher weight classes there is no doubting that he is a tremendously talented fighter.
I think the influence of UFC/MMA on casual fight fans has been the most detremental to PBF's "legacy". Most casual fight fans today seem to prefer blood and guts fighting that tends to end with the losing fighter brutally KO'd and laying on the mat long after the fight is over as opposed to technical brilliance. He's not the type of fighter to go all hell bent for leather trying to KO or punish his opposition, prefering to outclassed them with technical precision while taking as few risks as he can - fighting smart.
There was a similar thread a few weeks ago.
My response is in order to be great, he has to do great things. He just has not done that yet. The only name on his record that anyone will remember 10 years from now is DLH. And if they look more into it they will see that DLH was in his mid 30s and was on the downward slope in his career at the time.
Longivity would help him. He easily has a good 4 to 5 years left in him. He could clean out the 147 lb division. He could give 160 a shot after that. It might sound crazy but this is what he needs to do. He needs to do something extraordinary.
Let me ask you something. What made Leonard a legend? Was it his rematch against Duran? Was it his epic fight against Hearns? Or was it not his victory over the reigning undisputed middleweight king Marvin Hagler after a 5 year layoff? My vote is on his victory over Hagler.
Let me just say it straight and messy, and succinct as possible. I'll get it wrong I know, but I'll just say it and take the heat. I'm basically reducing a thesis into a sentence here, but any questions and I'll try to answer them nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by the phenom
Here it is...
"Floyd has already wasted a lot of years talking trash and ducking some mean sunuvubiatches." "He's already set his legacy." "There's no turning back." "It's like an old man who won't change." "You know Floyd will choose the least risk/
more money choice." He's up there with the best... but as far as all-time... he will never get that. Many will still say he was an image.... and Floyd's fans won't get Floyd to shut those guys up. Hey... his fans wanted him to take care of Margarito, but that never happened.... and don't jump on me for saying only that... because there's more to this.
CC#246 Sweet Pea finally someone else states this....Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Go through the threads and I've been saying it for ages, that he needed to settle in a division and wipe out clean.... At one point I thought he would fo this at 140 but then he started chasing ODLH money and he talked about moving up in weight...
If PBF can clean out 147 forget it... He's already beat Zab and Baldo (regardless of what you think about him Baldo was still the Champ) if he can add SSM, Cotto and the winner of Margarito vs. Williams Whoa!! That sure as hell would raise his status...
Lol.. If im honest..
Probably nothing..
He would gain more respect for fighting more and hes more then likely going to stay undefeated forever..
But in all honesty..
All he needs to do is give it time.. Boxing fans heart get fonder when he isd gone thats how all legends are made..
He isnt the most popular so it prob take longer then your average great.. But believe.. Thats how it happens..
You dont get appreciation till your gone.. Nobody bought his retirement anyway..
And its likely hes timed his 'comeback' right..
Hatton has gotten back in the news ..So he takes that fight..By the time thats over
Well.. Cotto will prob have beaten margarito..Who Floyd was 'ducking' Lol..
And i doubt whoever he defeats will be broken by theyr defeat..Theyr futures after floyd will mold floyd further..
For example.. Floyd beats ricky and cotto.. some say oh they were bs...
Floyd retired and people hate on him.. But ricky and miguel go off and become legends in theyr own rights...
What does that do.. That just makes floyd bigger then what he has achieved himself by his ex opponents achieving some wild sh*t
Im not a floyd hater but i dont love the dude by any means..But i am a hatton and cotto man.,..
Those arent predictions..Those are whatifs..
But you can see my view / agenda...
Pizeaceeee
It would be great to see him take on all the best in a division, instead of winning one or two solid fights then jumping weights again. My opinion of him would increase hugely if he cleaned out 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
When it comes down to it what the true fight fan feels about pretty boy Floyds legacy is all that matters. Lets not forget that Floyd has already beaten champions such as corrales,castillo,judah,chavez,gatti, manfredy and of course Oscar some names which even the casual fight fan has heard of before. Floyd Mayweather jr. posseses hands down some of the best boxing skills we have seen of late. Now if Floyd were to fight 5-8 more major fights and win them all he would cement his legacy as one of the top 20 fighters i feel of all time. Mosley, Cotto ,Margarito,Hatton,Cintron,Williams,Clottey,Hopkins , or even Spinks, Malinaggi or Junior Witter who many forget hasnt lost since 2000 to Zab Judah when he was in his prime. The opponents are out there if you look from 140-154 weightclasses where floyd would be able to compete in there are plenty of opponents for floyd to make a case as of the best of his generation and ever. With Floyds defensive skills and hand speed to think he would not stand a chance against Sugar Ray Leonard at 147 or Tommy Hearns at 147 is ignorant .The most interesting matchup i feel would be against Aaron pryor the all time best at 140 pounds. First lets see if Floyd can get past Hatton, Mosley or Margarito then we will judge his all time status from there.
Floyd already is a bit of a legend imo,just look at how many belts he's won and at what weights,then look at some of the names he's beaten.
Yeah some were past their best (oscar) but the history books don't remember any of that do they.
Thing is can someone name a classic fight that has involved the Pretty Boy?
:)
He should just go away, and take Barry Bonds with him.
Heres :coolclick: #2 on me dantheman5166 and Welcome aboard the Saddo Express.... 8)
Hope you enjoy your stay here.....
I personally would remove Judah from that list and add 'Chicanito' Hndz. I just don't think Zab held regards by the time they met and I ain't saying this just now I've been saying it since before they fought. I don't care how well Zabs and PBFs styles matched and how Zabs as fast or faster and stronger then PBF.... The fact the fight was sgined prior to the PBF fight is what makes it worst... 'Chicanito' was working on his 5th defense if memory serves me right and was more experienced then PBF so I hold that win higher then him beating a Zab that was well past it and I don't care if he won the 1st 3 rounds, a fight is scheduled for 12 not 3 rounds...Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman5166
Right off the bat knock off Cintron off that list he won't be getting any credit by beating him thats for damn sure... Same applies for Witter he won't get shit! for beating him even if he hasn't lost since 2000 those 2 guys aren't stand outs at least now in their divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman5166
Knock off B-Hop also that fight ain't happening....
SMM, Cotto, Margarito, Hatton, Clottey and Spinks could be future opponents... Those are names that mean/stand for something those are names that will give PBF credit.....
Williams who is yet to prove himself I would discredit until the result of the Margarito fight....
I think Spinks would PBF a good fight really surprised no ones mentioned that match up before...
Spinks might be the one to beat PBF.... Who knows....
I see what your saying and I agree that it's ignorant NOT to THINK that PBF does not stand a chance against SRL or Hearns at anyweight BUT you gotta understand something and we've discussed this here, PBF has only had 1 opponent of great stature to fight and he did beat ODLH. The reason why people tend to always lean to the oldschool fighters in this case SRL, Hearns is because they had great opponents. Duran, Hagler, De Jesus, Benitez and others. PBF hasn't really had marquee names at the top with him add that to the fact that he wen't thru divisions like used to run through women and thats why people give him the flack he get's cause he hasn't really dominated a signle division.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman5166
I gotta disagree here Pryor the best 140 lber. all time... Nah! Surely you gotta think JCC, 'Kid Pambele' Cervantes, Loi and possibly Locche derserve those honors more then Pryor....Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman5166
He needs to fight all the top guys in the welterweight division. Let's say he beats Hatton, which I think he will. He then needs to fight the winner of Cotto-Margarito (assuming Margarito beats Williams). After that, then battle Sugar Shane. Clean out a division!
The problem I've always had with Floyd, since the Castillo fight. He's fought: Sosa, N'Dou, Corley, Brussles, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya. Not the creme de la creme of fighters. Then Floyd will say he won't fight Cotto or Margarito because he asks who have they fought, etc. They need to be up to his level and all this nonsense. I'm sorry but Sharmba Mitchell is much lower than Cotto or Margarito.
Now by fighting that is a good step, even though I think Floyd will win easier. But don't fight Ricky, get the win, then retire. That's cheating the fans and yourself Floyd.
I have to agree with your post bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by the wiz
Comparing him to Barry Bonds, there will always be a question to his claim of greatness. If Mr. Bond can score another 100-200 or so homeruns without the aid of "you know what", he may get the respect the baseball community. Same thing with Mr. Mayweather. Call out everyone. He is young and, as he says, the greatest. Prove it by fighting the best in the division that matters the most. Once he gets past SSM, Cotto, Margarito, Hatton, then maybe even his detrators will have to agre that he is what he claims to be.
imo he is the controversey behind kinda says it all
still even thou it hard being a champion in 6 different weight classes will make him p4p for ever
Beat Cotto and Hatton.
It's actually 5 diff weight classes. And even though that this is a great feat, I only consider him a great champion in 2 divisions. Super Featherweight and Lightweight. He did not defend his title at the other 3, except unifying with Baldomir (judah shouldn't of even been champion when he won that title)Quote:
Originally Posted by headson
Agreed, ccQuote:
Originally Posted by Canvasback
Actually he probably should try and unify a division....I mean look at what COULD be done and a guy could say he's done the same thing as Floyd. Floyd has gone and won titles at 130, 135, 140, 147, and 154....right now someone could beat: Mzonke Fana, Julio Diaz, Souleymane M'baye, Kermit Cintron, and Sergei Dzindziruk....those aren't exactly the greatest fighters in the world now are they?
He's already one of the best P4P fighters of this millenium, he can become an all time great if he beats 2 or 3 of these guys,
Hatton
Cotto
Winky
Taylor
.....so we are to believe one of the greatest fighters of the millenium hasn't ever unified a division and seldom defends his titles when he does win them?
And some people wonder why UFC has become so big despite being totally worthless
CC Geat PostQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Beat Hatton, Cotto and Mosley
i disagree wit those who say he wont be like sugar ray in status cuz i think his persoanlity causes him to be remebered and be a "star"
I don't think he can to be honest. They guy is a jerk. He's not even creative enough to make that work. His personality is his downfall. Sad but true.
Simply keep fighting. More often too. He needs a few more big names the likes of Mosely and Cotto then he can retire, and be a legend. Sadly I think if he loses that cockiness hes probably lost his edge.
He's already proven his boxing skills. If he wants more fame and to become a household name like tyson, leonard, etc. he needs to keep doing things outside of the ring like the 24/7 show, which was good for his career. I dont blame him for wanting to retire to be honest. he wont get any more famous beating margarito or paul williams.
But fighting and beating Mosley might help in that regard...it would be another high profile fight that I'd love to see anyway ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by bgordon
Legend status--isn't it all about the people? He's done everything in the ring--in about 10 years! That alone is legendary. He needs to keep doing the Superfights, because right now, he can't draw his own PPV. It also has to do with his personality. After beating DLH, he could have basked in the glory, but he decided to be smug about his win and issue a pseudo 'retirement', as if he needed to create a 'buzz.' Well, it ended up being an anti-buzz, because people are now standing back to see what will happen next.Quote:
Originally Posted by bgordon
C'mon Floyd, step into the light!
Oh as a boxing fan I'd love to see it to, but Mosley's name is NOT bigger than DLH's to the casual fan, and the fight wouldnt gain the interest of the dlh fight either. Ever since dlh, Floyd has been doing talk shows, award shows, I've heard his name on the radio, etc. He should capitalize on this buzz and get a role in a movie or something. Just playing devil's advocate I'm a huge fan of Floyd's style and hope to see him in the ring many more times.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcollins
Great points BG, but remember that Shane beat DLH twice... that's the kicker. I say Mayweather fights Hatton next (30,000+ fans), then fights Cotto next year at MSG (PPV-again). Like I said, he can't sell a PPV, but he can fight the people who do! CHA - CHING!Quote:
Originally Posted by bgordon
Shane beat DLH, but he couldn't sell half as many tickets or make casual sports fans pay attention the way they did may 5th.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArawakWarria
I agree with the rest, the hatton fight in particular. If PBF only fights one more time I want it to be against Hatton just because it will be such a massive event, think of the energy level in the arena! It would be a spectical, thats for sure.
Beat Cotto and Hatton. Then wait for about 10 years to tick off the old calendar before you see him start creeping into those all time list because people will have believed that enough time has passed to call him a great fighter. Sad truth, but it is.
He's one of the top 20 most skilled fighters of all time in my opinion.