Why are USA Heavyweights so poor?

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

Their are two resons for the decline in U.S heavyweights:

1. Most of young kids these days want to fight straight away, they don't want to have to wait 6 months to spar for the first time. They need to learn their trade before they start fighting. This frustrates the kids and they go back to the street which is easier, faster and infinitely more profitable.

2. Some potential fighters quit to try to play in the NFL.

This needs to change if U.S.A are going to have some top class heavies again.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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It's simple. If you're a young American, and you're big, strong, and have athletic ability, why in the world would you want to become a boxer?
Why deal with a corrupt sport where only a very few make lots of money, and get punched in the head over and over? Instead, you can pursue football or basketball, unionized sports where virutally every professional player earns millions, and those sports are safer by comparison.

Everyone always asks where did the Fraziers, Alis, and Foremans all go.... It's simple, the next generation does exist, they're just playing in the NFL and the NBA.

Summed up well by those above. Good, big American alteletes can go into football or basketball, with more chance of making alot of money, more chance of being a star, and less chance of getting hurt. Smaller Americans aren't so desired in other sports, which is why they are still prevailent in alot of other weight classes, and the top heavyweights are now coming from Europe, where boxing is still a top way for a big man to make himself some money. Football (soccer) tends to favour smaller, nimble men.

I just believe America's hold on the heavyweight division is over for now ( i am American by the way). Their Era is over, and now it's time for someone else to have it...can't be on top forever right (with the exception of PBF,,, :D )

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

Their are two resons for the decline in U.S heavyweights:

1. Most of young kids these days want to fight straight away, they don't want to have to wait 6 months to spar for the first time. They need to learn their trade before they start fighting. This frustrates the kids and they go back to the street which is easier, faster and infinitely more profitable.

2. Some potential fighters quit to try to play in the NFL.

This needs to change if U.S.A are going to have some top class heavies again.

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SO WAS THAT FROM YOUR OWN EXTENSIVE ANALYSIS or are you just saying the same thing everyone else is saying???

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

There are a few good young American Heavyweights right now. One in particular is Chris Arreola. He is coming up strong, is aggressive and exciting to watch.

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Originally Posted by Fire

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

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Of course Wlad would beat him, because Wlad has trained as a professional boxer and Ray Lewis hasn't.
Throw Wlad on a football field and Ray Lewis would break Wlad in half, because Ray is a professional football player and Wlad isn't.

I'm not sure what you meant with that line...

Better question, why are ALL the heavyweights today mostly bad? We'll be back, it's only a matter of time. People just have to want to box. Some people play football (i'm sure money is a factor) because they actually like the game and its history. You have a chance to be mentioned a long side other all time greats so it gives you something to work towards other than just the money.

The same's true with boxing but the problem is that there's been a gap of boxers to look up to. The only way a sport can perpetuate itself is if its current stars bring interest to its future stars. People know too much about Tyson and not enough about Ali or Joe Louis. All they've seen in the sport over the last 20 years almost is corruption by king and arrest after arrest with tyson. You can say "What about holyfield?" but say holyfield to somebody and by word association they will automatically think of tyson biting his ear not all the great fights he was in with heart. Yeah tyson brought fans to the sport while he was at his best but at the same time did the aftermath of his actions also drive away boxing stars of the future?

Boxing will find away to fix itself, it always has. It's gonna take awhile and its gonna take a great heavyweight fighter from america to do it. All the champs are from europe and asia so if someone doesn't show up soon, boxing is gonna suffer from a soccer effect. Which is "We don't have any good people in it so why bother watching it?" There's still plenty of great american boxers in the lower weight classes but the heavyweights have always been the best of the best. The whole sport could be greatly improved if all the crooked ass promoters and orgs quit having the mindset of "If WE'RE not broke, why fix it".

The fighters from esaten Europe are by and large not up to much.

If they were fighting 10 or 15 years ago they would be lucky to break the top ten.

Its just a case that all the other HW are so bad.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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Because they're all in the NFL. There are much better options these days for outstanding athletes than boxing, the NFL being the biggest one. Even if you don't make the grade eventually you get a free university education. Also, life is much easier economy-wise than it used to be. Not so much economic hardship, much better athletic opportunities = the current situation.

NFL,NBA & MLB is full of 200+ lb people. The Americans will return but the dominance is over.

They don't take time to develop they start out with piss poor trainers and they are smaller right now

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Originally Posted by Larryboy

Summed up well by those above. Good, big American alteletes can go into football or basketball, with more chance of making alot of money, more chance of being a star, and less chance of getting hurt. Smaller Americans aren't so desired in other sports, which is why they are still prevailent in alot of other weight classes, and the top heavyweights are now coming from Europe, where boxing is still a top way for a big man to make himself some money. Football (soccer) tends to favour smaller, nimble men.

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It has nothing to do with desire to play other sports... You can be an incredibly gifted athlete, strong fast, powerful, with cat like reflexes... But if you're 5'8 and in shape you weigh 147 pounds your not exactly going to make waves in the NFL or NBA. that's why America will always produce great boxers at the lower weights, as will many other countries. You have a good point about soccer though, it's just that it isn't terribly popular in the states.. In many many countries I'd guarentee the best athletes below 200 lbs are playing soccer as that's where the money and prestige is.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

The fighters from esaten Europe are by and large not up to much.

If they were fighting 10 or 15 years ago they would be lucky to break the top ten.

Its just a case that all the other HW are so bad.

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You said the magic word IF. IF they were here 10 or 15 years ago the story would have been the same maybe more exciting.Don,t make excuses for the ifs that never happened.What makes you think things would have been any different?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Larryboy

Summed up well by those above. Good, big American alteletes can go into football or basketball, with more chance of making alot of money, more chance of being a star, and less chance of getting hurt. Smaller Americans aren't so desired in other sports, which is why they are still prevailent in alot of other weight classes, and the top heavyweights are now coming from Europe, where boxing is still a top way for a big man to make himself some money. Football (soccer) tends to favour smaller, nimble men.

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It has nothing to do with desire to play other sports... You can be an incredibly gifted athlete, strong fast, powerful, with cat like reflexes... But if you're 5'8 and in shape you weigh 147 pounds your not exactly going to make waves in the NFL or NBA. that's why America will always produce great boxers at the lower weights, as will many other countries. You have a good point about soccer though, it's just that it isn't terribly popular in the states.. In many many countries I'd guarentee the best athletes below 200 lbs are playing soccer as that's where the money and prestige is.

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Read that quote again, he was saying exactly what you said. He meant that smaller guys weren't desired by by the NFL and NBA so you are only agreeing with him and therefore no need to correct him ;)

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Originally Posted by Fire

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Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw

Their are two resons for the decline in U.S heavyweights:

1. Most of young kids these days want to fight straight away, they don't want to have to wait 6 months to spar for the first time. They need to learn their trade before they start fighting. This frustrates the kids and they go back to the street which is easier, faster and infinitely more profitable.

2. Some potential fighters quit to try to play in the NFL.

This needs to change if U.S.A are going to have some top class heavies again.

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SO WAS THAT FROM YOUR OWN EXTENSIVE ANALYSIS or are you just saying the same thing everyone else is saying???

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

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Let Ray Lewis learn how to box and he would destroy Wladimir. Ray is one of the best Athletes or was in his prime IN THE WORLD. He is way faster, stronger, and more agile than Wladimir. Ray has better body control, more aggressive and would be by far the best athlete to ever box. Guys like Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell lead the revolution of big guys playing other sports.

Football and basketball were around in the 60's and 70's it didn't hurt then.

When the right guys come along we'll know....the Europeans are doing what the Americans don't want to do....soon someone will get pissed off enough to do something about it


Taeth they said the same things about Bob Gibson and Jim Brown....but look how good Mark Gastineau did at boxing

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by Fire

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

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Of course Wlad would beat him, because Wlad has trained as a professional boxer and Ray Lewis hasn't.
Throw Wlad on a football field and Ray Lewis would break Wlad in half, because Ray is a professional football player and Wlad isn't.

I'm not sure what you meant with that line...

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what i meant with that line is to say if lewis would have trained in boxing wlad would whoop his ass...

ther is ALOT of good football, basketball players who choose to play baseball because it is an easier sport to make money in...

if current HW boxers was so horrible today that means all them athletes would be boxing to make the easy money...

name me some great hw's that would have been good enough to play in the nba or nfl... its takes a completely different skill set mentally and physically to play american sports than to box at the highest level...

futhermore alot of football players, rugby players, mma fighters, basketball players, alot of those guys try boxing and hardly any ever make it....

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Football and basketball were around in the 60's and 70's it didn't hurt then.

When the right guys come along we'll know....the Europeans are doing what the Americans don't want to do....soon someone will get pissed off enough to do something about it


Taeth they said the same things about Bob Gibson and Jim Brown....but look how good Mark Gastineau did at boxing

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Have you played high level football? I would rather take a punch then get tackled at a university level let alone in the NFL. Just playing allstar football as a kid I would get worse body bruising from football than I ever did from boxing.

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Originally Posted by Fire

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by Fire

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

---

Of course Wlad would beat him, because Wlad has trained as a professional boxer and Ray Lewis hasn't.
Throw Wlad on a football field and Ray Lewis would break Wlad in half, because Ray is a professional football player and Wlad isn't.

I'm not sure what you meant with that line...

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what i meant with that line is to say if lewis would have trained in boxing wlad would whoop his a**...

ther is ALOT of good football, basketball players who choose to play baseball because it is an easier sport to make money in...

if current HW boxers was so horrible today that means all them athletes would be boxing to make the easy money...

name me some great hw's that would have been good enough to play in the nba or nfl... its takes a completely different skill set mentally and physically to play american sports than to box at the highest level...

futhermore alot of football players, rugby players, mma fighters, basketball players, alot of those guys try boxing and hardly any ever make it....

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If you think that Lewis owuldn't beat Wlad if he went into boxing then you are not a good gauge on athletes at all. Lewis has it all to be the best heavyweight ever.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Football and basketball were around in the 60's and 70's it didn't hurt then.

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Yes, except the NFL and NBA were nothing like they are today. The sports weren't unionized and the players weren't reaping the financial benefits that they get today.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Football and basketball were around in the 60's and 70's it didn't hurt then.

When the right guys come along we'll know....the Europeans are doing what the Americans don't want to do....soon someone will get pissed off enough to do something about it


Taeth they said the same things about Bob Gibson and Jim Brown....but look how good Mark Gastineau did at boxing

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Have you played high level football? I would rather take a punch then get tackled at a university level let alone in the NFL. Just playing allstar football as a kid I would get worse body bruising from football than I ever did from boxing.

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Yes as a matter of fact I have....and as a guard I had to pull and run full speed into a defensive tackle who was NO SHIT 6'5 330 and although he wasn't strong running into him was like hitting a brick wall and my shoulder seperated. It hurt but it's not like getting punched in the head for a living either



Very true SweetPea

there has been no "great" to come along and take the titles back--the HW division is in its weakest era of all time right now. it desperatly needs a louis, marciano, dempsey ,ali -2 come along and save it

well its because of all that money in the NFL and NBA. If they paid them nothing more would do boxing as why would you go do boxing and have good chance at getting brain damage later on for rest of your life or play in the those sports.

Also the sports image to boxing for the youths is not there. The other brand sports market towards young guys with jersey's, great video games, plus those sports are team ones, which most parents try and get their kids into when their young.

Death is more common during competition in college football than it is in pro boxing (per 100,000 participants). Football wrecks your whole body and brain damage is just as likely in football (maybe alittle less for some positions) as well as knee/back/shoulder/neck injuries. After boxing you might not know where you're going, but atleast you can walk there.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Fire

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by Fire

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

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Of course Wlad would beat him, because Wlad has trained as a professional boxer and Ray Lewis hasn't.
Throw Wlad on a football field and Ray Lewis would break Wlad in half, because Ray is a professional football player and Wlad isn't.

I'm not sure what you meant with that line...

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what i meant with that line is to say if lewis would have trained in boxing wlad would whoop his a**...

ther is ALOT of good football, basketball players who choose to play baseball because it is an easier sport to make money in...

if current HW boxers was so horrible today that means all them athletes would be boxing to make the easy money...

name me some great hw's that would have been good enough to play in the nba or nfl... its takes a completely different skill set mentally and physically to play american sports than to box at the highest level...

futhermore alot of football players, rugby players, mma fighters, basketball players, alot of those guys try boxing and hardly any ever make it....

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If you think that Lewis owuldn't beat Wlad if he went into boxing then you are not a good gauge on athletes at all. Lewis has it all to be the best heavyweight ever.

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I think we should wait to see him throw a punch before we go declaring him the greatest of all time. He may have a jaw made out of the finest crystal.

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Originally Posted by mikefromstu

There are a few good young American Heavyweights right now. One in particular is Chris Arreola. He is coming up strong, is aggressive and exciting to watch.

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The kid is a prodigy.

Jonathan Banks is an exciting fighter too
[youtube=425,350]o-zS8Wyuk0g[/youtube]


Hasim Rahman Jr.....oddly enough is being trained by Emanuel Steward....that's a GOOD pairing IMO

And for the record, there is a steadily increasing rate of foreign born players playing in the big four (nba,mlb,nfl, and nhl wether you wanna realize it or not) so you'd have to believe that some time soon american athletes will start being pushed towards combat sports.

Europeans and canadians will continue to play well in the nhl.
Big men are coming from europe to play in the nba as centers and a few as other positions as well.
Baseball attracts a lot of latin players from all over the place.
Football is the only one thats predominantly american but with the closing of euro-league and the nfl's apparent plans to globalize, you'd have to assume its just a matter of time before a huge influx of foreign born players move to that as well.

A big reason is that the amateur circuit has changed in America. Years ago most American fighters developed as amateur fighters. Alot of the "experieced" amateurs turned pro in America now have in the neighborhood of 50 fights. Some guys turn pro with very little amateur background. Alot of the the European fighters have extensive amateur careers. 200+ fights.

Amateur & pro fighting is different. But the experience of ring time & technique goes a long way.

Since the Iron Curtain came down it certainly is now for the World Title and they are hungrier, just like the Americans were in the 30s times change nothing stays the same.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

---

not really american heavyweights, but heavyweights in general are lazy fighters who do not have a weight limit.. This means they can get up and down in weight and not really have to train hard. They have always been the spoiled division and the most overrated. I am not sure why people put so much emphasis on them when you have guys at 160 or 135 who work harder and are better technicians. But the thing heavyweights can do which guys lower cannot is longevity. Somehow the slower pace makes it so a heavyweight can fight until he is 40, and fight effectively. Now? Well thing is you have these big heavyweights like 6-7 250 pounds and the americans have to start to have some big guys in this country start to fight. It is all about size. The Klitchkos are all about size and not about skill. Klitchko had a good jab but he had it too low and that is all he did. jab and right hand counter when he wanted to. That is not a great fighter. He had a guy who was alot smaller in front of him. Put a Lennox Lewis or a 250 pound Tyson or Holmes in front of him and he gets dominated.

Legend......must you insist on being ignorant.

Wlad kept his hand low well yeah SOOOOO many punches were coming back over the top after the jab.


Wladimir has beaten guys just as big as himself and honestly he'd destroy Nicolay Valuev who is a lot bigger than him.

If Mike Tyson was 250 pounds he'd be splattered all over the canvas....Larry Holmes would have his trouble with Wlad too seeing how Wlad has a jab just as good as Holmes' and he has more power than pretty much anyone Holmes ever fought

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

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Do you have something against fighters from other countries?I could care less where they come from, if they can fight and are entertaining who cares?

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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

What’s going on with American Heavyweights?
For almost 100 years America has dominated Boxings heaviest division but now no one.

Lamon Brewster's non effort last night against the china chinned Wladimir Klitschko just about summed up the pathetic state of the USA Heavyweights.

Americas other best Heavyweight Shannon Briggs surrendered his WBO title meekly and now Brewster does the same. Currently no American Heavyweight holds a version of the title (with the main 4 bodies)

Why are American Heavyweights so poor? Are there any prospects on the way?

---

not really american heavyweights, but heavyweights in general are lazy fighters who do not have a weight limit.. This means they can get up and down in weight and not really have to train hard. They have always been the spoiled division and the most overrated. I am not sure why people put so much emphasis on them when you have guys at 160 or 135 who work harder and are better technicians. But the thing heavyweights can do which guys lower cannot is longevity. Somehow the slower pace makes it so a heavyweight can fight until he is 40, and fight effectively. Now? Well thing is you have these big heavyweights like 6-7 250 pounds and the americans have to start to have some big guys in this country start to fight. It is all about size. The Klitchkos are all about size and not about skill. Klitchko had a good jab but he had it too low and that is all he did. jab and right hand counter when he wanted to. That is not a great fighter. He had a guy who was alot smaller in front of him. Put a Lennox Lewis or a 250 pound Tyson or Holmes in front of him and he gets dominated.

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You actually think the only reason the Klitschko's win fights is because of their size over their opponents?How many of their fights have you actually watched?Ignorance abound in this post. ???How do you think he won the gold medal in the Olympics, I will give you a hint "BOXING SKILLS"!If you really want to go over Wladimir's career I will be more than willing to e the teacher.If you think it is easier to fight as a heavyweight I don't know what to tell you.You take a lot more punishment being a heavyweight than any other weightclass.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Fire

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by Fire

throw ray lewis in the ring with Wlad and Wlad will beat his a$$ back to Baltimore....

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Of course Wlad would beat him, because Wlad has trained as a professional boxer and Ray Lewis hasn't.
Throw Wlad on a football field and Ray Lewis would break Wlad in half, because Ray is a professional football player and Wlad isn't.

I'm not sure what you meant with that line...

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what i meant with that line is to say if lewis would have trained in boxing wlad would whoop his a**...

ther is ALOT of good football, basketball players who choose to play baseball because it is an easier sport to make money in...

if current HW boxers was so horrible today that means all them athletes would be boxing to make the easy money...

name me some great hw's that would have been good enough to play in the nba or nfl... its takes a completely different skill set mentally and physically to play american sports than to box at the highest level...

futhermore alot of football players, rugby players, mma fighters, basketball players, alot of those guys try boxing and hardly any ever make it....

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If you think that Lewis owuldn't beat Wlad if he went into boxing then you are not a good gauge on athletes at all. Lewis has it all to be the best heavyweight ever.

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I think we should wait to see him throw a punch before we go declaring him the greatest of all time. He may have a jaw made out of the finest crystal.

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Yeah um I've seen him in head to head colisions moving faster than most men can, and just shake off and go back into the huddle. Most football players have a great beard.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

And for the record, there is a steadily increasing rate of foreign born players playing in the big four (nba,mlb,nfl, and nhl wether you wanna realize it or not) so you'd have to believe that some time soon american athletes will start being pushed towards combat sports.

Europeans and canadians will continue to play well in the nhl.
Big men are coming from europe to play in the nba as ceneters and a few as other positions as well.
Baseball attracts a lot of latin players from all over the place.
Football is the only one thats predominantly american but with the closing of euro-league and the nfl's apparent plans to globalize, you'd have to assume its just a matter of time before a huge influx of foreign born players move to that as well.

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I think the only reason the international world has gotten into basketball is because United states has gotten technically sloppy due to the poor regulations in the games. Fouls like double dribble often go unnoticed in the nba, and the NBA has moved away from the defense orientation that made it good ten years ago when big centers ruled the league, and its was easier to steal. Baseball has for a long time had strong support from Dominican Republic not much has changed there IMO, but I hate the sport so I don't follow it. Football is almost all americans and will likely stay that way because the best athletes are going into it.

I think the athletes who are under six feet tall, and not as heavy will go into soccer. Its going to pick up in the states and when they get their best talent in it they will be true contenders. Hell in 2002 I felt they outplayed Germany, and should have faced Brazil in the finals, but due to a bad call and a many unlucky breaks they lost the game.

Ron King took all their monies.

hahaha! ;D