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my father told me this one story of a cuban boxer who started boxing at the age of 40 and started winning alote of championships in mexico against great mexican boxers. is there a such thing as natural talent. meaning no matter what age you start you can be great becuase all the moves come naturally to you? or is that just a myth? thanks
yeah, natural talent is out there, i dont really think it has to do with age or anything...everyone has natural inclinations and it is up to you to find them and make the most of them, that is how greatness happens, especially with boxing. a lot of things can be taught and a lot of things cant be taught, speed and TRUE power for example can only be developed to a certain degree, therefore you could consider those natural talents.
Yes and no. Talent all depends on how much you want it. Two athletes can train to be boxers. One of them loves boxing and enjoys it very much, and the other one doesn't care too much about it. They can train the same amount of hours, train under the same routine, under the same trainer, etc. I guarantee you the one that loves boxing will be in much better shape and be a much better boxer than the one who doesn't care for it. It's all about passion and love for the sport, not neccesarily talent. :)
Yes and no
Even a guy with natural skills,need refinement and training
There are guys out there,that have skill gifted by god,but have loses on their record for whatever reason
Grant,Bowe,Mosely,Trinidad,all like god built his own boxer in their prime
And they all fell down at some point
Then you have a guy like Hopkins,late start at boxing,slowish hands
But he works harder at it then anyone in the buisness
Even when he loses,you leave not being %100 sure he lost
This is sport where only a tiny percent make it to the contender level. I don't think that talent is in every guy that walks in a gym. Look at Freddy Roach as a pro, he trained very hard, had a good trainer, could take a punch but couldn't beat a guy like Camacho.
You have people that haven't realized their own talents. You also have talented fighteres that are sabotaged by trainers or bad managers/promoters. But I guarantee if you ask most well to do trainers they'd rather have the fighter with a tremendous work ethic than Mr. Talent.
Interesing debate, and youll never put your finger on it theres so many impondrables. I had a kid who literaly lived the life technically was good and probably P for P the hardest hitter Ive had. He lived Boxing in the gym hed spar anyone never coming second, he was a joy. Talent wise he had it, get him a fight he would go to peaces. Because in his mind he couldnt afford to loose to become champ to him that was the crux of his life and he couldnt live with it. It bacame an obsession. He had a winning record but couldnt handle the Big occasion. He was the only kid Ive worked with that never won a title and it wasnt for the lack of trying
roach is a great example. in fact, in this generation, perhaps the best example of someone who just didn't have it. he still met with moderate success strictly through work ethic and smarts and balls of steel. there's a fighter at my gym that has roy jones speed w/ shane mosleys aggressive work rate and prince naseems athletic charisma and movement. horrid work ethic. comes to the gym once every six months, kicks the shit out of everyone, then disappears into legal troubles and social distress for 6 months. he is the prime example i have seen of natural talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris N.
conclusion:
freddie roach did more in boxing than this dude will do. it is what you make of it.
The old saying Champions are born and then Made seems to ring true.
I believe there is, but without the mentality, natural ability is worthless in the long run
There's definitely natural talent/ability. Most people has heard the ol' saying "you can't teach speed". Natural talent/ability is a great thing to have in fighting or any sport. But it takes alot more than that to excel in the ring.
I don't think people are born with talent but i do think people are born with the correct genes for the physical attributes that after some technical work can become great talents.
Sugar well put cc
Certainly does,have a CCQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Have one yourself
Very succint(sp) way of putting itQuote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
Guy can have every ounce of natural skills on earth,but if he wont take to training,you end up feeling like your pounding your head in to a brick wall.
Michael Grant is a perfect example
Natural talent can actually be a burden in a lot of cases.
When someone doesn't have to work as hard as other people they may start
working DOWN to that level, it's a pitfall you can see in almost every aspect
of life. I would rather have a steady work ethic and an open mind, than
natural talent with less ambition.
natural talent? no and yes.
when i first started to box i was totally shit. i could punch really hard, thats about it. my technique was appalling and i was really stiff and opposite to fluid movement.
if you saw me then you would say i wasnt talented enough. i was also fat then too. mentally i always bin a fighter but physically i didnt start out fluid or anything.
when i got into shape and stayed around the game, started to know the moves, got a myself a proper coach who taught me the moves, then it all came together, i have nice fluid movement, and throw combos comfortably, effortessly. and ppl say to me now, trainers, that im talented. however
now if i got myself in shape, and been around the game for a couple of years, was taught the right way and still couldnt be fluid and get the hang of it, then thats when you can say the person hasnt got the talent.
the example one trainer gave me was, i was doin the stuff effortlessly where as someone else who may not be as talented would have to graft (whilst sparring for e.g)
ps- i am not being big headed and tryna big myself up, cos no one knows who i am, so theres no point, i am jus tryna give some real examples. i hope i helped
:goodpost:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar_Shaw
But since they're born with their genetics/physical attributes then running fast & jumping high etc.. are gifts/natural talent. Whatever u wanna call it. Genetics can not be taught. Technique can be learned but some people are just more gifted athletes than others. The guy that does not properly train but has a 42inch vertical or runs a 4.2 in the 40 is a gifted/naturally talented guy.
Michael Grant came into Pro boxing very green. he had very little amateur experience. The real problem with little or no amateur experience is the lack of confidence when things are not going your way . its hard for a green fighter to get through the mental part of a competitive match without some experience and condidence to carry him on through the storm . Grant had a nice physical appearance , looked the part . Yet I have seen many an athletic build , stretched across the canvas , training was not his problem. Grant was a and still is a terrific athlete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
It's more than just athleticism that makes up talent. Not all fighters learn the same way.
absolutely there is a such thing as natural talent..
if you grow up playing basketball or football, some people can practice half as much as you, and be light-years ahead of you....
to be one of the best in the world it takes years of practice, but at the highest level of competition, all of those guys in any sport was usually dominating their peers at junior high and high school levels..
there are exceptions to the rule as always but generally any pro athlete has been very gifted his whole life..
Lets put this puppy to rest
When I was younger I pitched,I had a ton of natural ability,and very good size for pitching
I could even throw a knuckler
But because I wasnt properly coached
My elbow and shoulder got eaten alive because I was so inconsistent on delivery points
Just ended up putting un due stress on points
By the time I got my pro try-out I was allready on my downside
And the little bit of coaching I got from Joe Kerrigan that day,if it had happened 5 years earlier
Well
I wouldnt be talking to ya'all by any way but a spokesman ;D
Monkey theres a lot of truths there
Maybe natural talent exists but I don't think it's as common as people think.
I am often told I'm a natural athlete - I feel like saying "you take my back and my knee and spend the years I've spent cycling everywhere for transport and all the hours I've spent being active in one sport or another and (1) you'll realize a lot of effort has gone in - my fitness didn't just evolve of it's own accord and (2) It continues to take effort and often involves PAIN which wouldn't be worth it to most people (3 ) I sucked at everything when I first started just like everyone else and I go back to that level every time I'm injured.
I'm not a natural athlete I just like being active whether I'm successful or not. Mostly chain smokers tell me I'm a natural athlete and I think that's telling.
I think what might be natural is the level of interest in a sport or anything really which predisposes people to wanting to take the time to improve.
There's a woman at my work who is very unfit. I was talking about some Kenyan marathoners I met and how fit they are and how many hours of training they do. Her comment was something like "well it's easy for them because they get sponsorship".
It really annoyed me because it's soooo much harder for them than it would be for most first world citizens. They need to work to support huge families and compete against hundreds of other desperate poor athletes, run hours everyday without shoes and avoid a myriad of illnesses in a country with bad health care to compete before they are in a position to earn any sponsorship.
Still once they get it some fat woman sitting on her overfed arse in an office somewhere is happy to write off all their efforts as if it was easy for them because now they have a very small amount of support which still doesn't equate to what a lot of us are born into.
Some people accuse others of being natural athletes because it gives them an excuse as to why they aren't what they would like to be that's not got anything to do with the effort they've put in.
As Monkey said there will be people who have talent and are not nurtured to forfill their full potential. People in this situation are the last people to accuse others of not having to work for thier results though. Those are the people who know that even with natural talent everything worth anythign takes effort and hard work.
A true story, I was working with this kid and having a laugth working with him, all the other trainers said why the fuck you working with him S. He will never be a fighter while he has a hole in his arse your wasting your time, I said hes fun and he enjoys it Ill keep plugging away. Had a few amatuers 16 I think turned Pro, won the Bitish in his 8th fight won the Lonsdale outright won the European in his 16th lost for the World in his 17th he was fucking useless, but people at the end said he was a natural, funny old game.
A fantastic reason not to quit something if you enjoy it. I'd CC ya for that one if I could Scrap but I already have today. Very inspirational :)
Hey Scrap, If you get another like him, send them to someone high up in the new age practice of TFT or Thought field therapy and they can be taught a technique that can overcome any phobia in miniutes any time it arises, they do the formula themselves /tapping certain pressure points while thinking and feeling the fear or the negitive and it snips up all of the film that plays over and over in your mind and it disperses into your whole brain field so that emotion comming from you playing over the same senario is removed. Eventually (quickly actually)that part of your brain that is addicted to that negative thought pattern just gives it up once you have removed the emotion from it a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrap
So your happy the way it all turned out then ! ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
You remained human and conversing with real /cyber - people :-(
No,of course Im notQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
If That natural ability had been coached properly,who knows how it ends up
The last line was a joke,thus the smiley face
The point was,because I hadnt been coached properly,and didnt have a consistent delivery,I tore my elbow and shoulder up,chips in the elbow,shoulder problems,etc
But I did have a "natural" ability
But it never became what it could have been because of lack of coaching
Andre, I hear what youre saying Ive got a man now in the field whose the tops. Its facinating to watch very true. Hes remarkable in helping with injurys amazing results.
Yeah bro ,I was joking in reply to your joke. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
We are real really....