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Margarito/Williams II
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Did you enjoy the fight? Because I'm one of the only people who didn't. At times I thought it was boring to watch, and I personally probably wouldn't watch a rematch. Maybe because I was expecting a classic, but I didn't enjoy it.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
I was thinking that but i just don't know. I mean margarito did come on some late but it wasn't too late to change the outcome at least going by the judges cards i personally had williams way ahead. But even with margarito late pressure he still wasnt winning the rounds he was doing much better but not enough and it almost seems that a rematch would just be a re-play of this fight.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
it was far from being a classic but it wasn't one of these fights that are made to be the fight of the century and completely didn't live up to the expectations (DLH/Mayweather although it's Mayweather's fault lol, Corrales/Casamayor III, Barrera/Juarez II), they were all ok fights, but they didn't live up to the hype at all, and well there was good action in the later rounds when Tony finally let his hands go fluently, and i think there are good enough grounds for there to be a rematch, and also from what i've see, it was a better fight than Jones Jr. Vs. Henshaw, and it was a million times better than the borefest that was Simms/Alcine last week
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
If i was Williams, I would move on and try to snatch another title
I'm wondering how long it will be till he moves up to 154 or even 160.
What's next for Williams?
1) PBF
2) Cotto
3) Mosley
4) Cintron (probably the most realistic to make)
5) Rematch with Margarito
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
yea i understand all that, but i mean Margarito does deserve his rematch more than half of all these other jokes that lose their titles *cough* Darchinyan *cough*, so i think it would be an ok thing for there to be a rematch, and not that long from now
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
If i was Williams, I would move on and try to snatch another title
I'm wondering how long it will be till he moves up to 154 or even 160.
What's next for Williams?
1) PBF
2) Cotto
3) Mosley
4) Cintron (probably the most realistic to make)
5) Rematch with Margarito
Interview in last week's Boxing News with him he was asked about moving up. He said he's not even considering it as he wants all the belts to become dominant at Welter. Basically, while unification at Welter is an option, then moving up isn't.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
I would rather see Williams vs. Cintron. :)
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Interesting. I rewatched the fight as well, but came away with the opposite conclusion. I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th pretty clearly. My revised score is 117-111. He just never stopped throwing even when he got stunned and outworked Tony from beginning to end. I don't think Williams has anything to prove, and should move on and try to get another fighter. I think he'll need another win or two before he can get a big name, so maybe a unification bout with Cintron can be made. That would be a great fight and set the winner up for a bout with one of the big money guys.
As far as Williams moving up, I don't think he should ever go any higher than 154. Once he gets to 160, a lot of his natural advantages will become neutralized, and it will be much more difficult for him to absorb the big blows his style requires him to take coming from 160 pound fighters. Besides, all the big fights are going to be at welterweight for the foreseeable future. So, as long as he can keep making weight, there is no need for him to move up.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Interesting. I rewatched the fight as well, but came away with the opposite conclusion. I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th pretty clearly. My revised score is 117-111. He just never stopped throwing even when he got stunned and outworked Tony from beginning to end. I don't think Williams has anything to prove, and should move on and try to get another fighter. I think he'll need another win or two before he can get a big name, so maybe a unification bout with Cintron can be made. That would be a great fight and set the winner up for a bout with one of the big money guys.
As far as Williams moving up, I don't think he should ever go any higher than 154. Once he gets to 160, a lot of his natural advantages will become neutralized, and it will be much more difficult for him to absorb the big blows his style requires him to take coming from 160 pound fighters. Besides, all the big fights are going to be at welterweight for the foreseeable future. So, as long as he can keep making weight, there is no need for him to move up.
What do you mean on review?
You said:
"I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th"
?
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Interesting. I rewatched the fight as well, but came away with the opposite conclusion. I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th pretty clearly. My revised score is 117-111. He just never stopped throwing even when he got stunned and outworked Tony from beginning to end. I don't think Williams has anything to prove, and should move on and try to get another fighter. I think he'll need another win or two before he can get a big name, so maybe a unification bout with Cintron can be made. That would be a great fight and set the winner up for a bout with one of the big money guys.
As far as Williams moving up, I don't think he should ever go any higher than 154. Once he gets to 160, a lot of his natural advantages will become neutralized, and it will be much more difficult for him to absorb the big blows his style requires him to take coming from 160 pound fighters. Besides, all the big fights are going to be at welterweight for the foreseeable future. So, as long as he can keep making weight, there is no need for him to move up.
What do you mean on review?
You said:
"I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony),
but on review decided that Williams won the 9th"
?
I mean after watching the fight a second time (replay last night on HBO), I decided Williams won the 9th after having given it to Margarito on the first viewing.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Interesting. I rewatched the fight as well, but came away with the opposite conclusion. I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th pretty clearly. My revised score is 117-111. He just never stopped throwing even when he got stunned and outworked Tony from beginning to end. I don't think Williams has anything to prove, and should move on and try to get another fighter. I think he'll need another win or two before he can get a big name, so maybe a unification bout with Cintron can be made. That would be a great fight and set the winner up for a bout with one of the big money guys.
As far as Williams moving up, I don't think he should ever go any higher than 154. Once he gets to 160, a lot of his natural advantages will become neutralized, and it will be much more difficult for him to absorb the big blows his style requires him to take coming from 160 pound fighters. Besides, all the big fights are going to be at welterweight for the foreseeable future. So, as long as he can keep making weight, there is no need for him to move up.
What do you mean on review?
You said:
"I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony),
but on review decided that Williams won the 9th"
?
I mean after watching the fight a second time (replay last night on HBO), I decided Williams won the 9th after having given it to Margarito on the first viewing.
I hear what you are saying.
The problem with judging a fight is you have to turn in your results as soon as the round is over. lol There is no going back. Judging a fight is not always as easy as one might think.
But I hear you and I too have done the samething after watching a fight several times, I will score it differently and those contraversial fights where people complain, "I was robbed" I try to find rounds to give them and even then, I still don't have them winning most of time. So go figure ;)
I am just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt when I give them a round or two ;D
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Interesting. I rewatched the fight as well, but came away with the opposite conclusion. I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th pretty clearly. My revised score is 117-111. He just never stopped throwing even when he got stunned and outworked Tony from beginning to end. I don't think Williams has anything to prove, and should move on and try to get another fighter. I think he'll need another win or two before he can get a big name, so maybe a unification bout with Cintron can be made. That would be a great fight and set the winner up for a bout with one of the big money guys.
As far as Williams moving up, I don't think he should ever go any higher than 154. Once he gets to 160, a lot of his natural advantages will become neutralized, and it will be much more difficult for him to absorb the big blows his style requires him to take coming from 160 pound fighters. Besides, all the big fights are going to be at welterweight for the foreseeable future. So, as long as he can keep making weight, there is no need for him to move up.
What do you mean on review?
You said:
"I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony),
but on review decided that Williams won the 9th"
?
I mean after watching the fight a second time (replay last night on HBO), I decided Williams won the 9th after having given it to Margarito on the first viewing.
I hear what you are saying.
The problem with judging a fight is you have to turn in your results as soon as the round is over. lol There is no going back. Judging a fight is not always as easy as one might think.
But I hear you and I too have done the samething after watching a fight several times, I will score it differently and those contraversial fights where people complain, "I was robbed" I try to find rounds to give them and even then, I still don't have them winning most of time. So go figure ;)
I am just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt when I give them a round or two ;D
Oh, yeah, my "official" scorecard must stand ;D But I was interested to see if there were any extra rounds I could have given to Margarito, and instead found one to take away ;D Bottom line for me...it was a clear win for Williams.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
sorry but i just re-watched the fight and i honest can say Margarito deserves a rematch, Williams won the fight clearly, but it was IMO close enough for there to be a rematch, plus why shouldn't there be a rematch, it was a good fight, and it was a fight IMO that Margarito can win, his defense was actually the best i have seen it in some time, the only thing was he was waiting to long to pick his shots, when he was smothering Williams with punches, he would get the better of the trades, and IMO he connected the harder more solid punches all night, but he didn't throw or land enough of them to get the win, i think Williams did earn his WBO title, but in the process i think Tony did earn his rematch, this is basically like the Hopkins/Taylor scenario, Taylor outworked Hopkins in the early rounds and then Hopkins took over, the only difference is that i felt that B-Hop won both fights, and i felt like Tony lost by 115-113 decision Saturday night
Interesting. I rewatched the fight as well, but came away with the opposite conclusion. I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony), but on review decided that Williams won the 9th pretty clearly. My revised score is 117-111. He just never stopped throwing even when he got stunned and outworked Tony from beginning to end. I don't think Williams has anything to prove, and should move on and try to get another fighter. I think he'll need another win or two before he can get a big name, so maybe a unification bout with Cintron can be made. That would be a great fight and set the winner up for a bout with one of the big money guys.
As far as Williams moving up, I don't think he should ever go any higher than 154. Once he gets to 160, a lot of his natural advantages will become neutralized, and it will be much more difficult for him to absorb the big blows his style requires him to take coming from 160 pound fighters. Besides, all the big fights are going to be at welterweight for the foreseeable future. So, as long as he can keep making weight, there is no need for him to move up.
What do you mean on review?
You said:
"I initially had it 116-112 (1-6, 8 & 12 for Williams...7,9, 10 & 11 for Tony),
but on review decided that Williams won the 9th"
?
I mean after watching the fight a second time (replay last night on HBO), I decided Williams won the 9th after having given it to Margarito on the first viewing.
I hear what you are saying.
The problem with judging a fight is you have to turn in your results as soon as the round is over. lol There is no going back. Judging a fight is not always as easy as one might think.
But I hear you and I too have done the samething after watching a fight several times, I will score it differently and those contraversial fights where people complain, "I was robbed" I try to find rounds to give them and even then, I still don't have them winning most of time. So go figure ;)
I am just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt when I give them a round or two ;D
Oh, yeah, my "official" scorecard must stand ;D But I was interested to see if there were any extra rounds I could have given to Margarito, and instead found one to take away ;D Bottom line for me...it was a clear win for Williams.
Oh, so you were doing the benefit of the doubt thing too?
LMAO and Tony came up shorter than before? Damn.
CC btw.
Too funny.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
it was far from being a classic but it wasn't one of these fights that are made to be the fight of the century and completely didn't live up to the expectations (DLH/Mayweather although it's Mayweather's fault lol, Corrales/Casamayor III, Barrera/Juarez II), they were all ok fights, but they didn't live up to the hype at all, and well there was good action in the later rounds when Tony finally let his hands go fluently, and i think there are good enough grounds for there to be a rematch, and also from what i've see, it was a better fight than Jones Jr. Vs. Henshaw, and it was a million times better than the borefest that was Simms/Alcine last week
I think some people just have unreasonable expectations, I thought it was a cracking fight. I also thoroughly enhoyed Mayweather vs De La Hoya and thought the Jones Jr Hanshaw fight was great to watch as well.
Maybe I'm easier to please than most but all three of those fights I would happily sit through again.
The Simms fight was crap though :P
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.
It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.
It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.
Agreed. The Margarito rematches that should happen now are Clottey and Cintron, not Williams. Williams really ought to take Margarito's place in the Cotto fight. Who else is Cotto going to fight next? Mosley?
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.
It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.
I respect you as a poster but that is a ridiculous statement. MAB got KTFO and lost nearly every round with Manny yet he gets a rematch. I can go through lots of fights where there was no need for a rematch and this one was much closer. And it was similar to Hopkins Taylor. JT won the earlier rounds,B Hop started too late. Same here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It was a cracking fight but Williams won convincingly. There is no need to even consider a rematch. Maybe at some later juncture if Margarito can get back in the picture, but otherwise there is no reason.
It really wasnt Hopkins: Taylor 1. Not at all.
Agreed. The Margarito rematches that should happen now are Clottey and Cintron, not Williams. Williams really ought to take Margarito's place in the Cotto fight. Who else is Cotto going to fight next? Mosley?
After every round the analysis would be PW throws over 100 punches yet if you look at punch stats,they land near enough simlar % with Margarito certainly landing the harder shots. The scoring for this fight reminds me of Ponce V Penelosa. Ponce threw hundreds of punches every round but never once hurt Gerry. Gerry landed and threw less but made much more of an impact.
I've altered my opinion having seen the fight numerous times,I want to see a rematch. If Margarito can go to court against his own promotional company to get the fight with PW,I'm sure PW can return the favour.
And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning. I'd like to see a rematch.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
I've yet to read of anyone other than Margarito (and now Gamo, I guess) actually claiming that Margarito won. The fight was close (sort of; I had it 116-112, which seems to be the most common score out there among boxing journalists), but the result was not controversial. This was not like Hatton-Collazo where there was actually a dispute as to the result and it seemed as if the challenger perhaps should not have become the champ.
I said before this fight that Margarito ought to give Clottey a rematch. I think that fight is far more ripe and deserving of a rematch than this one. Many people, me included, think Clottey would have won if he hadn't injured his hands.
And Gamo, come on--the MAB/Pac comparison is inapt. MAB/Pac I was years ago, and MAB beat Morales and Juarez in between. If Margarito goes and beats Cintron or Cotto and a couple years down the road comes looking for a rematch with Williams, then by all means he should get it. But not now--in a division with this much talent I have no interest in seeing an immediate rematch. Immediate rematches are only worthwhile where (a) the first fight was very good (i.e., worth watching again), AND (b) one of the following: (i) there are no other good fights to be made at the weight class (see, e.g., R. Marquez v. I. Vasquez II), (ii) the result was controversial (see, e.g., Mayweather v. Castillo II or Taylor v. Hopkins II; this also should have happened for Hatton/Collazo), or (iii) the fight could have gone the other way but was changed due to some freak headbutt or injury, etc. (arguably R. Marquez v. I. Vasquez, Pac v. EM II, Clottey v. Margarito).
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114
Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114
Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113
Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113
Doug Fischer, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113
Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113
Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113
David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114
Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114
Which majority of journalists did you hear? These were the ringside journalists. And where did I say Margarito WON? I had it 115-113 PW,but I used the Ponce De Leon Penelosa example to show how fights can be scored differently ergo the above scores.
And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close. Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW. And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning.
Yea right!!!! C'mon man you got to let it go, he let the 1st 6 rounds slip away, and even if he won the next 5 he clearly lost the 12th....
And were is my sig bro? you squelching on me ;D
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning.
Yea right!!!! C'mon man you got to let it go, he let the 1st 6 rounds slip away, and even if he won the next 5 he clearly lost the 12th....
I don't understand why you 2 are so confused about this: I have shown proof that alot of guys had it a draw or Margo winning. I had 115-113 PW.
And if I have not made my points well enough already,Margarito went to court against his own promotional company for the fight,PW can easily give Tony a rematch provided he wants one of course. I have no idea what Margarito wants to do.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?
Fine. I didn't do an internet survey like you did. I'm frankly shocked that any journalist could score the fight for Margarito. 4 is the only round in the first 6 I could conceivably see being scored for Margarito. And Williams clearly won the 12th. So even if Margarito won rounds 7-11 (which he didn't), the best I could see him doing was a draw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close.
Hey, I agree with you there. I don't want a Floyd-Oscar rematch. You can see why Floyd wants it though (a reason that clearly doesn't apply to Margarito-Williams or really anything not involving Oscar).
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW.
Arum is a bitch. Cotto-Williams is definitely the fight that should be happening now. I agree that anyone would have trouble with Williams, but I think Williams-Cintron would be a good fight and I wouldn't be surprised if it got made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??
Inapt, not inept. But I don't think the KO matters that much--you were one of the people most looking forward to Pac-EM III, right? (a fight which I consistently said should not have ever happened). Wlad got KO'd by Brewster. Should he not have rematched him? I think Margarito-Cintron II should happen again too--sooner than Margarito-Williams, despite the fact that Cintron got owned. He picked himself back up and improved, and plenty of time has passed. Immediate rematches are almost always a bad idea.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
And lots of ringside obersvers had the fight even or Tony winning.
Yea right!!!! C'mon man you got to let it go, he let the 1st 6 rounds slip away, and even if he won the next 5 he clearly lost the 12th....
I don't understand why you 2 are so confused about this: I have shown proof that alot of guys had it a draw or Margo winning. I had 115-113 PW.
And if I have not made my points well enough already,Margarito went to court against his own promotional company for the fight,PW can easily give Tony a rematch provided he wants one of course. I have no idea what Margarito wants to do.
Why would he want one.... Tony has 0 maketabilty and had none before he lost Saturday nite now he has veven less... Tony has 2 types of audiences
1)People who think he is the end all be all boogey man and ducke fighter etc...
2) people who didnt buy into the hype PERIOD!!!
All we heard is, When Tony gets his big break and hits the main stage he is gonna prove he is deserving of all the hype and will shine bright
Well he was on the biggest stage and he lost.... His arrogance and all that smiling during the fight paid off  ::** most were skeptical of him when he was a champ now the skeptism is at an all time high... Like I said 0 maketibility, not likeable and cant even connect with the guy... the last images of him were Bitchin and moaning and being a sore loser on national TV and headlineing a boxing card, instead of being gracious to his opponent      
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114
Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114
Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113
Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113
Doug Fischer, MaxBoxing.com: Margarito, 115-113
Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113
Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113
David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114
Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114
Oh! Shit!
Whoa!! I a bit surprised at Doug socring it for Margarito.
LMAO! at Iole 116-112 for Margarito :D
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Margarito let the fight out of his hands early. The fight got exciting after rnd 7 but it was too late for Margarito. Williams out hustled him at many times and he showed me he has some heart.
Now, If Cintron fights Williams, this is one of those fight that I say favor the style. Cintron would knock this guy out. Margarito hit Williams with a lot of Right crosses. Cintron is accurate and that is his siganture punch. If Williams can survive 12 rounds and be as active as always, he'll pull it off. But if he leaves his guard open for those right hands, The welterweight division will then be very interesting.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114
Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114
Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113
Steve Kim, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113
Doug Fischer, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113
Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113
Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113
David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114
Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114
Which majority of journalists did you hear? These were the ringside journalists. And where did I say Margarito WON? I had it 115-113 PW,but I used the Ponce De Leon Penelosa example to show how fights can be scored differently ergo the above scores.
And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close. Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW. And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??
Some of those scores are absolutely absurd. 116-112 for Margarito, are you kidding me? Even if you were extra kind and gave him the benefit of the doubt in rounds you thought he might have lost close because he's the champ, there is simply no way anybody who saw that fight could give him more than 5 rounds. And that is stretching it. Anyone giving Margarito the fight loses credibility in my mind. 116-112 Margarito, good lord ???
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
it was far from being a classic but it wasn't one of these fights that are made to be the fight of the century and completely didn't live up to the expectations (DLH/Mayweather although it's Mayweather's fault lol, Corrales/Casamayor III, Barrera/Juarez II), they were all ok fights, but they didn't live up to the hype at all, and well there was good action in the later rounds when Tony finally let his hands go fluently, and i think there are good enough grounds for there to be a rematch, and also from what i've see, it was a better fight than Jones Jr. Vs. Henshaw, and it was a million times better than the borefest that was Simms/Alcine last week
I think some people just have unreasonable expectations, I thought it was a cracking fight. I also thoroughly enhoyed Mayweather vs De La Hoya and thought the Jones Jr Hanshaw fight was great to watch as well.
Maybe I'm easier to please than most but all three of those fights I would happily sit through again.
The Simms fight was crap though :P
oh i'm not saying i didn't enjoy the fights that i listed (haven't seen the whole Jones fight and i'm not saying i didn't like what i saw, it just wasn't as good as Margarito/Williams), i've seen all the fights that i mentioned above more than once, well besides Corrales/Casamayor III
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
I got frustrated at all the times that the ref warned Williams about the holding. every time he would say this is the last time but never took points away.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
You say the majority of journalists had 116-112,yet where's your proof?
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: Margarito, 116-112
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: Draw, 114-114
Steve Springer, Los Angeles Times: Draw, 114-114
Bill Dwyre, Los Angeles Times: Margarito, 115-113
Steve Kim, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113
Doug Fischer, AUTO MESSAGE: The webmaster of this site has requested that we do not use any content from it.... please delete this post.com: Margarito, 115-113
Jerry Magee, San Diego Union-Tribune: Williams,
116-112
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: Williams,
115-113
Carlos Arias, Orange County Register: Williams,
115-113
David Avila, Riverside Press Enterprise: Draw, 114-114
Francisco Salazar, Fightnews.com: Draw, 114-114
Which majority of journalists did you hear? These were the ringside journalists. And where did I say Margarito WON? I had it 115-113 PW,but I used the Ponce De Leon Penelosa example to show how fights can be scored differently ergo the above scores.
And those are your reasons for rematches. Floyd wants an Oscar rematch,regardless of the SD,that fight was not close. Like I said in another thread,SSM won't fight PW,Cintron would have nightmares with PW and Arum has already said Coto won't fight PW. And how can it be an inept example,he got KTFO. Doesn't matter who he beat in between,he also lost his last fight??
Some of those scores are absolutely absurd. 116-112 for Margarito, are you kidding me? Even if you were extra kind and gave him the benefit of the doubt in rounds you thought he might have lost close because he's the champ, there is simply no way anybody who saw that fight could give him more than 5 rounds. And that is stretching it. Anyone giving Margarito the fight loses credibility in my mind. 116-112 Margarito, good lord ???
i had it 115-113 for Williams, best i saw Margarito getting was a draw, but there should be a rematch, as for people saying the whole Clottey rematch (not saying he doesn't deserve one) but don't use the hand as an excuse, cause remember that Margarito hurt his hand in that fight as well
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Quote:
Originally Posted by bond007
I got frustrated at all the times that the ref warned Williams about the holding. every time he would say this is the last time but never took points away.
I've read a couple of people complain about the holding, I just did not see it as excessive at all. I mean, hell, you can't get off 1200 plus punches if you are holding too much. It seemed to me he wisely tied up Margarito when he got too close, but it's not like it happened more than a few times a round. Tall guys are almost always going to do a bit of clinching. I'd hate to know what some of you would say about Ali...he was John Ruiz compared to Williams.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
yea i wasn't really bothered with the holding either, it wasn't a hugfest, and also Tony held him a couple times also
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Yeah I'm not getting the complaints about holding. Williams threw a ton of punches and when Margarito tried to close in it seemed his arms are so long it just happens. Margarito didn't even attempt to push off or really try and dig into him when inside. I actually saw Tony holding more if you want my honest opinion. He blew that fight and Williams to his credit did his job well; and I think got some good experience to boot. I would like to see a rematch, but not till Williams gets his shot at a couple of other guys; it's only fair. I'm sure if it was reversed, Tony wouldn't even dream of a rematch. I'm going to be pissed if they give Maargarito the fight with Cotto. Williams deserves it, even though I really wanted to see Cotto/Margarito. That dude needs to stop crying about it and realize he blew a huge oppurtunity.
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Re: Margarito/Williams II
Margarito/Williams II ain't worth watching.
Margo-Cintron rematch is better.
