Wladimir Klitschko: I just don't understand!!

I recently bought the new issue of The Ring magazine (which I recommend) yesterdy and there are in-depth profiles of Wlad,Calzaghe,Hopkins,PacMan etc

And I seen the ring's p4p list and wondered why isn't Wladimir Klitschko in the list as he is the heavyweight no1.

Wlad has beat the number 2 Peter (Undefeated at the time) and also the likes of :

Brock (then undefeated),Austin, Byrd (twice), Brewster, McCline, Mercer and Botha etc

Why doessn't he get respect, as surely that record is better than Calzaghe's and at least he's willing to fight anywhere. It just does not make sense!!

Does any one agree he should be given more recognition like in P4P top 10?

Because preference is given to smaller men and always has been.

A flyweight with his record would be knocking on the door no doubt and if he was Mexican or Philipino El Gamo would have a pic of him for his avatar.

But he's a heavy, white and a European and that represents three strikes against his name. He'll never get in.

Unfair justice that!!

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Unfair justice that!!

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But on the bright side at least he doesn't have to put up with El Gamo messing in his boxers over his poster on the wall which is sadly the fate of so many of the smaller guys.

true

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Why doessn't he get respect?

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Because he got ko'd by a golfer & he will again.

Damn, you gat to be a Klitschko fan to even consider that he could ever become a P 4 P fighter no matter what he does, the guy really is a boring, pretty awful and extremely un-attractive fighter to start with, doesn't have a chin, doesn't have heart, doesn't have variety of punches and his fights are really tedious but I give that he has one of the strongest P 4 P punches out there, that's all, if you can't understand this then you are too blind with your own non rationality for the guy

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Originally Posted by leftylee

I recently bought the new issue of The Ring magazine (which I recommend) yesterdy and there are in-depth profiles of Wlad,Calzaghe,Hopkins,PacMan etc

And I seen the ring's p4p list and wondered why isn't Wladimir Klitschko in the list as he is the heavyweight no1.

Wlad has beat the number 2 Peter (Undefeated at the time) and also the likes of :

Brock (then undefeated),Austin, Byrd (twice), Brewster, McCline, Mercer and Botha etc

Why doessn't he get respect, as surely that record is better than Calzaghe's and at least he's willing to fight anywhere. It just does not make sense!!

Does any one agree he should be given more recognition like in P4P top 10?

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Mercer was 40+ Botha was past it Brewster is brawler and had lost his last fight and had been out for a long time Austin ?? are you kidding me only decent names on that list are Brock Brewster and Byrd none of them names make you p4p top 10.

Someone asked Dan Rafael this very question in his chat last week. His response was that the P4P designation was originally brought in under the assumption that the heavyweight champ was the best fighter on the planet, and so the heavyweight champ gets excluded from his lists by default. I don't know if The Ring uses that same line of thinking or not.

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Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Someone asked Dan Rafael this very question in his chat last week. His response was that the P4P designation was originally brought in under the assumption that the heavyweight champ was the best fighter on the planet, and so the heavyweight champ gets excluded from his lists by default. I don't know if The Ring uses that same line of thinking or not.

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He might be right, that does make sense.

I know it will never happen but it would be awesome if weights were done away with completely at least for a while then you'd see how good people truly were.

It would great to hear Floyd Mayweather going on about he's the greatest fighter ever and then getting laid out by Jeremy Bates :D

Oh yeah and Calzaghe who fought the most ovverated fighter on the planet in Lacy and a Contender joke in Manfredo and always fight in his own backyard the big girl.

So you can put him in the P4P top ten then when Wlad at least fights the best and beats the best!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Oh yeah and Calzaghe who fought the most ovverated fighter on the planet in Lacy and a Contender joke in Manfredo and always fight in his own backyard the big girl.

So you can put him in the P4P top ten then when Wlad at least fights the best and beats the best!!!!!!!

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Calzaghe beat number 2 in his division at that time and for you to say Wlad beats the best in hw division is a joke.

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Oh yeah and Calzaghe who fought the most ovverated fighter on the planet in Lacy and a Contender joke in Manfredo and always fight in his own backyard the big girl.

So you can put him in the P4P top ten then when Wlad at least fights the best and beats the best!!!!!!!

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You got a case there, Calzaghes record certainly is no better than Wlad's apart from the fact he's undefeated.

But Wlad has certainly beating more ranked opponents than Calzaghe I'd imagine.

The thing is that the heavyweights by virtue of being the flagship division obviously gets the most scrutiny.

Even the casual fan knows a bunch of the heavies out there but only hardcore fans know more than 4 or 5 fighters at each of the lower weights.

When a guy like Wlad beats a guy like Brewster we have prior knowledge of Brewster, and more importantly his previous opponents and because of that knowledge we put the win into perspective.

When Rafael Marquez beats some Phillipino fisherman or African goat herder all we know is that his record shows a string of KO's and he's Ring ranked so he gets more credit for the win.

When a fighter is just a name and a record it's easy to overestimate their worth. Once you've seen a guy fight a lot of their mystique disappears and you see the flaws.

At the lower weights you don't really see these opponents so you are just judging a record with no personal opinion, whereas when the fighters are well known we all feel qualified to chime in with our own opinions.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Oh yeah and Calzaghe who fought the most ovverated fighter on the planet in Lacy and a Contender joke in Manfredo and always fight in his own backyard the big girl.

So you can put him in the P4P top ten then when Wlad at least fights the best and beats the best!!!!!!!

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Calzaghe beat number 2 in his division at that time and for you to say Wlad beats the best in hw division is a joke.

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Ok so if Sam Peter isn't the best opponent who is?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Oh yeah and Calzaghe who fought the most ovverated fighter on the planet in Lacy and a Contender joke in Manfredo and always fight in his own backyard the big girl.

So you can put him in the P4P top ten then when Wlad at least fights the best and beats the best!!!!!!!

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You got a case there, Calzaghes record certainly is no better than Wlad's apart from the fact he's undefeated.

But Wlad has certainly beating more ranked opponents than Calzaghe I'd imagine.

The thing is that the heavyweights by virtue of being the flagship division obviously gets the most scrutiny.

Even the casual fan knows a bunch of the heavies out there but only hardcore fans know more than 4 or 5 fighters at each of the lower weights.

When a guy like Wlad beats a guy like Brewster we have prior knowledge of Brewster, and more importantly his previous opponents and because of that knowledge we put the win into perspective.

When Rafael Marquez beats some Phillipino fisherman or African goat herder all we know is that his record shows a string of KO's and he's Ring ranked so he gets more credit for the win.

When a fighter is just a name and a record it's easy to overestimate their worth. Once you've seen a guy fight a lot of their mystique disappears and you see the flaws.

At the lower weights you don't really see these opponents so you are just judging a record with no personal opinion, whereas when the fighters are well known we all feel qualified to chime in with our own opinions.

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Even though Calzaghe's era has been weak he has beat better fighters than Wlad plus he has dominated his division for like 10 years Wlad hasn't even managed to dominate this terrible bunch of hws yet until he beats Chagaev Sultan Peter he isn't getting anywhere in my top 10 p4p thats for certain.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by leftylee

Oh yeah and Calzaghe who fought the most ovverated fighter on the planet in Lacy and a Contender joke in Manfredo and always fight in his own backyard the big girl.

So you can put him in the P4P top ten then when Wlad at least fights the best and beats the best!!!!!!!

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Calzaghe beat number 2 in his division at that time and for you to say Wlad beats the best in hw division is a joke.

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Ok so if Sam Peter isn't the best opponent who is?

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Peter wasn't the number 2 if i remember correctly Peter has improved since Wlad loss plus Wlad was down 3 times the rematch needs to happen and if Wlad beats Peter he will get my respect and i will give him his props but even if he beats Peter im not sure if he deserves getting in p4p top 10 he still needs to beat other champs.

I agree that he needs to beat the other champs to get anywhere. It's hard to rank anyone P4P when there are questions as whether or not he can beat everyone in his own division. The best way to answer that question is unify.

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Originally Posted by ghoster

I agree that he needs to beat the other champs to get anywhere. It's hard to rank anyone P4P when there are questions as whether or not he can beat everyone in his own division. The best way to answer that question is unify.

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Does anybody seriously doubt that Wlad would beat any of those guys out there?

I'm more confident that Wlad has the beating of all the heavies than I am of Pacquiao beating Marquez, Barrera, Soto and Guzman, or of Calzaghe beating Kessler, Mundine, Bute and Froch, or Taylor beating Wright and Pavlik or even Floyd beating Williams, Cotto and Mosely.

In fact if you asked me who had the best chance of beating all five of their top five challenges I'd probably go for Wlad ;)

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Originally Posted by leftylee

I recently bought the new issue of The Ring magazine (which I recommend) yesterdy and there are in-depth profiles of Wlad,Calzaghe,Hopkins,PacMan etc

And I seen the ring's p4p list and wondered why isn't Wladimir Klitschko in the list as he is the heavyweight no1.

Wlad has beat the number 2 Peter (Undefeated at the time) and also the likes of :

Brock (then undefeated),Austin, Byrd (twice), Brewster, McCline, Mercer and Botha etc

Why doessn't he get respect, as surely that record is better than Calzaghe's and at least he's willing to fight anywhere. It just does not make sense!!

Does any one agree he should be given more recognition like in P4P top 10?

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Wanna know why?

Because the other p4p's beat the number 1 ranked and number 2 ranked fighters in their weight classes. And the only recent number 2 fighter Wladimer has beaten was Sam Peter. Other then that he hasn't touched a top 3 heavyweight. Other then Byrd who he beat years ago very easily and just did it again.

Until Wladimer fights the likes of the other heavyweight champs then he'll never see the p4p list. I'm not hating, thats just how it is.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

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Originally Posted by leftylee

I recently bought the new issue of The Ring magazine (which I recommend) yesterdy and there are in-depth profiles of Wlad,Calzaghe,Hopkins,PacMan etc

And I seen the ring's p4p list and wondered why isn't Wladimir Klitschko in the list as he is the heavyweight no1.

Wlad has beat the number 2 Peter (Undefeated at the time) and also the likes of :

Brock (then undefeated),Austin, Byrd (twice), Brewster, McCline, Mercer and Botha etc

Why doessn't he get respect, as surely that record is better than Calzaghe's and at least he's willing to fight anywhere. It just does not make sense!!

Does any one agree he should be given more recognition like in P4P top 10?

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Wanna know why?

Because the other p4p's beat the number 1 ranked and number 2 ranked fighters in their weight classes. And the only recent number 2 fighter Wladimer has beaten was Sam Peter. Other then that he hasn't touched a top 3 heavyweight. Other then Byrd who he beat years ago very easily and just did it again.

Until Wladimer fights the likes of the other heavyweight champs then he'll never see the p4p list. I'm not hating, thats just how it is.

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Yeah but you can't discount Byrd because he had beat him before any more than you can discount Pacquiao's second win over a done Morales.

You said it yourself Byrd was Top 3 and Wlad whooped him twice. He also beat Peter so that's two more wins against top 3 opponents than Joe Calzaghe. Brock was probably top 5 when he fought Wlad, Brewster was top 10 too.

There's not much more beyond that and he has loses also so I agree he's not p4p yet but he's still the best heavyweight out there and has a great chance of unifying the division.

He may yet be banging on the p4p door.....

P4P status is for nonheavyweight fighters....Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Roy Jones Jr., hell even Ezzard Charles who wasn't a natural heavyweight but fought at heavyweight all deserve p4p status as they were the "best of the rest" (meaning the rest of the divisions)

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Because preference is given to smaller men and always has been.

A flyweight with his record would be knocking on the door no doubt and if he was Mexican or Philipino El Gamo would have a pic of him for his avatar.

But he's a heavy, white and a European and that represents three strikes against his name. He'll never get in.

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:goodpost:

Fighters like John Ruiz... Valuev.... Maskaev.... and Briggs.... don't bring much glamour to the heavyweight division.
If Wlad unites all the belts then he should get in the top ten p4p, I don't know where but in the top ten. That's just my opinion on it. The heavies are really a tarnished division. C'mon man... fat and old James Toney was able to compete with this current crop of heavies. I know James is one of the best.... but this small man.... fat and old.... credit to him... was able to do it. I just don't think James could have done it in the 90's, definitely NOT in the 70's. heh

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

Fighters like John Ruiz... Valuev.... Maskaev.... and Briggs.... don't bring much glamour to the heavyweight division.
If Wlad unites all the belts then he should get in the top ten p4p, I don't know where but in the top ten. That's just my opinion on it. The heavies are really a tarnished division. C'mon man... fat and old James Toney was able to compete with this current crop of heavies. I know James is one of the best.... but this small man.... fat and old.... credit to him... was able to do it. I just don't think James could have done it in the 90's, definitely NOT in the 70's. heh

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Not to base my argument on James, but this h.w. division stinks. heheh Wlad is good, but to be recognized in the p4p elite he needs to unify. He can do it, but he has to actually DO it.

Anybody here can get an engineering degree, but few can get their buts out of here and DO it. :) The powers that be may try to stop Wlad from unifying but that just makes him a victim of his society.

I think Wlad will enter the top 10 within 5 years. It's better that way. The heavies have let us down for quite some time.