Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

If you look at any long standing champ,there'll be a guy on the list and youll look at his record,and find yourself saying "Huh,he looks pretty good"then you look at his record,and hes completely tanked after that fight.
A good example Rudi Lubbers,he was 22-1 when he fought Ali
He ended up 29-8
Is the guy exposed?
Mentally damaged?
Whats your opinion on why guys tank like that

Padded record most the time i reckon

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Originally Posted by Poom

Padded record most the time i reckon

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See,I dont think so
Another example(Im using Ali at the moment,but you can do it with just about any Champs opponents)Mac Foster
Two wins against CLeveland WIlliams,a win against Zora Foley,only loss a KO to Jerry Quarry
Loses to Ali
And then he goes 2-4 to end his career

There could be so many reasons. Loss of confidence, mismanagement etc. It could be one of them "all of the above" senarios

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Originally Posted by ghoster

There could be so many reasons. Loss of confidence, mismanagement etc. It could be one of them "all of the above" senarios

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I was kind of thinking that,but like I said its kind of consistent
I know their are alot variables,but there are two types who lose a championship bout it seems
The brush themselves off type(Ken Norton)and the guys whose entire career falls apart afterwords

I think it's just to do with record building. Most fighters who show promise are given a nice supply of stiffs to build their records, as Atlas used to say when looking for early opponents for Tyson, 'We'd hold a mirror in front of their face and if no breath steamed it up we knew he was our guy!'.

After they have their big fight and lose they are at least known and in the public eye and so will next be offered fights against other young upcoming prospects who their managers want to see if they are ready for the next level.

This inevitably leads to more losses, the odd upset and the fighter becoming a journeyman.

We are seeing it happen in the heavyweight division with Dominic Guin right now. I expect Anthony Hanshaw will probably be an opponent for other name fighters soon and thus will get a few more defeats.

K9 is about to go the same way too.

Look at Bert Cooper Look at Tillis both had promising careers then Cooper ended up with 22 losses and Tillis had plenty aswell also guys like Carl Williams and Tyrell Biggs who were decent hws i think sometimes its due to boxers padding there record with bums or its that they were in good era and couldn't quite cut it.

most of Trinidad's opponants

I personally don't think it's just 1 thing.
I think it's a mixture of different things 1st loss, mentally beaten some change trainers right away, paded records, bad management I mean the list goes on and on.

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

I personally don't think it's just 1 thing.
I think it's a mixture of different things 1st loss, mentally beaten some change trainers right away, paded records, bad management I mean the list goes on and on.

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Add to this a step up in quality of opposition.

Wilfredo Rivera was undefeated untill he met Whitaker x2, DLH, Mosley, Vargas and after five nearly straight losses your just not that much into it any more.

Fernando Vargas undefeated untill he met Trinidad, DLH, Mosley x2 all of a sudden he turns into a shot fighter in his twenties. Just too many beatdowns in a row.

It's the same thing with the lesser known fighters. Only that it happends at a lower level. Once a fighter reaches a level where they can get beat, most of them get stuck there. They keep trying to brake through that level and keep fighting at that level of competition, but they are just not good enough to break through and they end up loosing most fights untill they just loose interest and loose that hunger they once had.

I think careers go south for the following reasons

1. Fighter is given low quality opposition and then moved up to quality opponents too fast.

2. Management sets them in with a bad style opponents for their style.

3. The don't fight often enough and get ring rust.

4. They get old.

5. Can't handle the pressure of being on TV.

6. They lose the fire, to keep boxing.

7. They start thinking about money to much and not enough about boxing.

8. Go back to life of thuggery

9. Start partying all the time getting drunk and using drugs (it's ok for the fans, but not professional athletes)

Im going to go with the more complicated there isnt one thing awnser

But its definitly a phenomenon of the sport
Another one,Greg Page,looked for all the world to be a comer,beat Renaldo Snipes,and James Tillis,only loss a decision to Berbick
Loses the title shot to Tim Witherspoon,and the wheels comes off
Goes on to be knocked out by 5-5-1 Mark Willis and decision to 14-13 Artis Pendegrass among others

THough a prime example of a padded record is David"Will Lose For Food" Bostice

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

If you look at any long standing champ,there'll be a guy on the list and youll look at his record,and find yourself saying "Huh,he looks pretty good"then you look at his record,and hes completely tanked after that fight.
A good example Rudi Lubbers,he was 22-1 when he fought Ali
He ended up 29-8
Is the guy exposed?
Mentally damaged?
Whats your opinion on why guys tank like that

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I'll be honest I have never heard of Lubbers. For the sake of the thread I took a look at him. And yes he was 22-1 when he went into the Ali fight. I will only respond about him since his name was brought up.

The answer to this question in this case is fairly simple IMO. Only 6 of those 22 wins were against guys that had winning records themselves. 8-3, 10-6, 8-5, & 5-4 were four of the six. No disrespect to those guys but that's not gonna get u ready for Ali.

His biggest test & win up to the Bugner loss (his only loss before Ali) was a 42-8 -- 12 year veteran named Del Papa (w 10 rds pts). Might not look so bad until you factor in the fact that Del Papa only fought 4 times (2-2) after their encounter. Del Papa's last 7= 2-5 having been KO'd 2x's. His 2 wins that I referred to were against 11-32 & 4-14 opponents.

After the Ali fight, Lubber's had already been to the mountain top & was matched much tougher. He went 7-6 in his last 13. Losing to opponents with records like 28-1, 11-0, 32-6, & 30-5 (4 of the 6 losses). U get the point. 3 of his 7 wins, vs 9-9, 14-10, & 11-12.

Conclusion= Lubbers was never a world class threat. He was a guy who was obviously matched carefully until he got his shot. Good for him.

Not all will be the same reason as Lubbers. But IMO it usually will not be something as simple as "lost confidence" "mental damage" & definitely not the "exposed" theory.

Lubbers was always the same fighter. For the most part he was actually pretty consistent from the beginning to the end of his career. He beat most guys with losing records & lost to most guys with winning records. IMO this is the case more often than not.

A little long winded for me. I need a break.

Silent that was Spot on Lubbers was not very good cc

#519 :coolclick: back at ya scrap. For takin the time to actually read & give ur opinion on my long winded response.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Silent that was Spot on Lubbers was not very good cc

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Ah but Lubbers wasnt the only examples I gave,also tossed out Mac Foster,who had quality wins,and Greg Page,who had the look of a comer

Foster goes 2-4 for the rest of his career,and Page ended up being KO'ed by a guy who was 5-5,let alone decision losses to guys who were barely .500
And these type of career collapses litter the boxing world
Now I also tossed up a record that was more padded then a training bra,in David Bostice,but not all,or even most of these guys have padded records

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Silent that was Spot on Lubbers was not very good cc

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Ah but Lubbers wasnt the only examples I gave,also tossed out Mac Foster,who had quality wins,and Greg Page,who had the look of a comer

Foster goes 2-4 for the rest of his career,and Page ended up being KO'ed by a guy who was 5-5,let alone decision losses to guys who were barely .500
And these type of career collapses litter the boxing world
Now I also tossed up a record that was more padded then a training bra,in David Bostice,but not all,or even most of these guys have padded records

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Round 2. Let's break it down.

Greg Page. Pro debut-June,1979

He was fighting for the USBA belt not even 2 years into his pro career (Feb.1981). A quick ascent IMO.

He wasn't the poster boy for fitness as he was not always in the best of shape.

He has some losses in his record like-- dec.-L vs Witherspoon, dec.-L vs Tony Tubbs, dec.-L vs Berbick, etc... He also had some good lookin wins in there-- TKO-W vs Tillis, dec.-W vs Snipes, KO-W vs Cotzee. Good fighters.

And yes he had 5-5 Mark Wills stop him in 9 rds. And beat him again in 6. All we can do is guess on this fight that is very inconsistent in Page's career. Was he in great shape?--Probably not. What was going on in his personal life?--We'll never know. Maybe he just got beat by a guy that had his #. Lets remember that even though Wills was 5-5 he was a pro, legitamate full sized HW. A far as his record, Wills had never took the easy road in his match ups. Among a bunch of other fighters with good records he fought Bonecrusher, Witherspoon (2x's), (a 32-0) Gary Mason, Page (2x's), Mercer, Jeremy Williams (2x's), (a 22-0) Zeljko Mavrovic, & for goodness sake Wlad Klitschko. Wills was no world beater but he was obviously a hard nosed guy.This is boxing & some guys just have another guy's #. This is a very likely scenario in this case IMO.

You point out that he lost to a guy that was barely .500. I'm assuming your referring to Artis Pendergrass. He was 41 yrs old fighting a 28 yr old Pendergrass. And the scoring suggests that the fight was VERY close (96-97 on one of the cards). Cut him some slack bro. Besides this dec. loss at the ripe age of 41, the only other guy that beat him that had a losing record was Wills (who I addressed already). I am thouroghly convinced that we will never be able to give him (Wills) the credit of how tough he was (I'm convinced). Everybody else that beat him (Page) had a VERY good record (even after he was over 40 yrs old).

10 of his (Page's) losses were after 1989-- he had been a pro fighter for a decade already. 5 of them was after he was 40 yrs old.

IMO this is not a guy that had the wheels fall off. This was a case of a guy that fought good fighters throughout his career. He also fought well past his better days (into his 40's. Over 20 years as a pro). This is as simple as u win some & u lose some.

There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
Id call that the wheels falling off

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
Id call that the wheels falling off

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Agree to disagree.

This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
Id call that the wheels falling off

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Agree to disagree.

This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?

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No,Bey
Not a good fighter?
Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of

good topic.
Its no mistery that if you look at fighters who have been exposed, they usually had padded records approx 20 or so fights against opponents who were barely breaking even in the win/loss column. Then, when their promoters have them up to a nice number like
25-0 (22ko). they give them a shot at a belt, or a top ten contender. Then Poof! it all goes away. and down hill from there. Because after they get exposed, they still have some type of name left, and THEY are now being used to pad someone else's record.
"Hey look at that guy, he got starched by the champ!, if i can lay em out too, then im on the champs level too!"
Then the vicious cycle starts all over again.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
Id call that the wheels falling off

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Agree to disagree.

This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?

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No,Bey
Not a good fighter?
Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of

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Dis u even read my post. Ur posting things that I have already posted on the "Record"(Loss to Wills 2x's).

How much do u really know about this sport? And I'm not tryin to be ugly here.

As for Bey. At the end of his career yes he ended up 18-11. But Page fought the 13-0 Bey. And he was no good? Could u win 13 in a row as a pro? U think that's easy? His 11 losses were against guys that all had good records.

U claim to be a boxer. What would u have been able to do with Bugner, Wills, & Bey?

Losing to other tough guys is not a shame or humiliation. It's very easy for people to sit on a couch, hit a heavy bag, & bark about who's the good & not good fighters. I have been around & my beliefs/viewpoints based on my experiences are waaayyy different from urs.

To each, their own.

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
Id call that the wheels falling off

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Agree to disagree.

This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?

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No,Bey
Not a good fighter?
Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of

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Dis u even read my post. Ur posting things that I have already posted on the "Record"(Loss to Wills 2x's).

How much do u really know about this sport? And I'm not tryin to be ugly here.

As for Bey. At the end of his career yes he ended up 18-11. But Page fought the 13-0 Bey. And he was no good? Could u win 13 in a row as a pro? U think that's easy? His 11 losses were against guys that all had good records.

U claim to be a boxer. What would u have been able to do with Bugner, Wills, & Bey?

Losing to other tough guys is not a shame or humiliation. It's very easy for people to sit on a couch, hit a heavy bag, & bark about who's the good & not good fighters. I have been around & my beliefs/viewpoints based on my experiences are waaayyy different from urs.

To each, their own.

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Losing to every one you fight is
Come on,I was around when Page was coming
He was supposed to be the next big thing
After Spoon he never had another great win,how much do YOU know about this sport
After he beat Page, Bey went 5-11
Not exactly a Randall Cobb,let alone a Mike Tyson

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
Id call that the wheels falling off

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Agree to disagree.

This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?

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No,Bey
Not a good fighter?
Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of

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Dis u even read my post. Ur posting things that I have already posted on the "Record"(Loss to Wills 2x's).

How much do u really know about this sport? And I'm not tryin to be ugly here.

As for Bey. At the end of his career yes he ended up 18-11. But Page fought the 13-0 Bey. And he was no good? Could u win 13 in a row as a pro? U think that's easy? His 11 losses were against guys that all had good records.

U claim to be a boxer. What would u have been able to do with Bugner, Wills, & Bey?

Losing to other tough guys is not a shame or humiliation. It's very easy for people to sit on a couch, hit a heavy bag, & bark about who's the good & not good fighters. I have been around & my beliefs/viewpoints based on my experiences are waaayyy different from urs.

To each, their own.

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Losing to every one you fight is
Come on,I was around when Page was coming
He was supposed to be the next big thing
After Spoon he never had another great win,how much do YOU know about this sport
After he beat Page, Bey went 5-11
Not exactly a Randall Cobb,let alone a Mike Tyson

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My expertise is far & above what ur accustomed to, I'm sure. I had 88 amateur fights w/ multiple amateur titles & 10 pro fights.

U keep sayin "the next big thing". Maybe u shouldn't be so fast to buy into "the next big thing" line until someone has actually accomplished something that convinces u. What the hell does that even mean? ("the next big thing").

When u put a bunch of guys in with each other that are all pretty good they will beat & lose to each other. That doesn't make them bad fighters.

Everybody is not goin to be the undefeated fighter. Or the 1, 2, or even 3 loss fighter. Not when ur fighting other fighters.

When the rare exception comes along & can dominate & win at this top level for an extended period of time it's an uncommon thing. It's the truly elite. It's not that many chief.

But u got it figured out. Post me when u & ur fighters go get that belt buddy. It's not a long road.

Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
See the lead post
Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
It still doesnt mean your right
Page never had a great win again
But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
See the lead post
Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
It still doesnt mean your right
Page never had a great win again
But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible. And winning the WBA HW title means nothing to the monkey. :Sarcasm:

There's an answer for u.

Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ. Go get'em fella.

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
See the lead post
Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
It still doesnt mean your right
Page never had a great win again
But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

There's an answer for u.

Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.

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Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
How closely related to Page are you btw?

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
See the lead post
Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
It still doesnt mean your right
Page never had a great win again
But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

There's an answer for u.

Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.

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Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
How closely related to Page are you btw?

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Our only relation is that we are both REAL fighters. Something that u would no nothing about.

Stay in ur basement & work that heavybag monkey. It will never hit u back.

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
See the lead post
Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
It still doesnt mean your right
Page never had a great win again
But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

There's an answer for u.

Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.

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Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
How closely related to Page are you btw?

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Our only relation is that we are both REAL fighters. Something that u would no nothing about.

Stay in ur basement & work that heavybag monkey. It will never hit u back.

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Yeah right
Crybaby
You made an ass of yourself,and now your PO'ed
Care to post a name,Id LOVE to check your record
Hey,wanna see a new pic of the gym,we finally got around to hanging up all the medals

Whats interesting is that was a fairly snotty exchange,but neither one of us SC'ed each other
Meh,Assasin have a CC just for that

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
See the lead post
Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
It still doesnt mean your right
Page never had a great win again
But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

There's an answer for u.

Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.

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Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
How closely related to Page are you btw?

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Our only relation is that we are both REAL fighters. Something that u would no nothing about.

Stay in ur basement & work that heavybag monkey. It will never hit u back.

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Yeah right
Crybaby
You made an a** of yourself,and now your PO'ed
Care to post a name,Id LOVE to check your record
Hey,wanna see a new pic of the gym,we finally got around to hanging up all the medals

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PO'ed? Not the least. It takes more than u got to pull somethin like that off.

I will not post my name or id#. This site is not about me & I do not want any fighter attenion. I answered ur question truthfully beacaused u asked my credentials.

What I am more than willing to do is to catch a plane to ur state for a weekend. We can climb in the ring with each other & u can see what ur really made of. I will pay my own expense if u can remain upright for 5 rounds. But when I wipe the florr with u, U pick up the bill, Airfare, Hotel, & food.

What'cha say big boy?

Call me on it & see if it's a joke. But understand that if it happens. It really happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Whats interesting is that was a fairly snotty exchange,but neither one of us SC'ed each other
Meh,Assasin have a CC just for that

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:coolclick: Yeah, u to.

Though for the record the local airport is a puddle skipper between Bluefield and Princeton
What Im made of is a 37 year old who used to be decent,and am looking to make some cheap money in a rough and rowdy
My other fighters are good
Me Im old,and I smoke
But hey,its your dime

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Though for the record the local airport is a puddle skipper between Bluefield and Princeton
What Im made of is a 37 year old who used to be decent,and am looking to make some cheap money in a rough and rowdy
My other fighters are good
Me Im old,and I smoke
But hey,its your dime

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I think that to further this offer is not a good idea. It may not be a very good situation.

I was watchin the SC # to. Thought u was gonna kick off the trading of the clicks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Though for the record the local airport is a puddle skipper between Bluefield and Princeton
What Im made of is a 37 year old who used to be decent,and am looking to make some cheap money in a rough and rowdy
My other fighters are good
Me Im old,and I smoke
But hey,its your dime

---

I think that to further this offer is not a good idea. It may not be a very good situation.

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Actually so was I
Again your dime,Im willing to get my ass beat any time,and buy ya a beer afterwords
Course Im also willing to do the beating,as well,and still buy ya a beer
Ive been very honest about that,this is my last go round,after this is done,Id best get my head around just being a trainer,cause thats all theres going to be
But for now,Im looking good and feeling it,but age happens to everyone,wether you like it or not

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Though for the record the local airport is a puddle skipper between Bluefield and Princeton
What Im made of is a 37 year old who used to be decent,and am looking to make some cheap money in a rough and rowdy
My other fighters are good
Me Im old,and I smoke
But hey,its your dime

---

I think that to further this offer is not a good idea. It may not be a very good situation.

---

Actually so was I
Again your dime,Im willing to get my a** beat any time,and buy ya a beer afterwords
Course Im also willing to do the beating,as well,and still buy ya a beer
Ive been very honest about that,this is my last go round,after this is done,Id best get my head around just being a trainer,cause thats all theres going to be
But for now,Im looking good and feeling it,but age happens to everyone,wether you like it or not

---

The expalining that I would have to do to convince my guys that I wasn't goin crazy would be unbearable. To convince them that it makes any sense whatsoever to fly out to go put a beating on a 37 yr old trainer wouldn't go over smoothly.

Good luck with ur people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silent assassin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Though for the record the local airport is a puddle skipper between Bluefield and Princeton
What Im made of is a 37 year old who used to be decent,and am looking to make some cheap money in a rough and rowdy
My other fighters are good
Me Im old,and I smoke
But hey,its your dime

---

I think that to further this offer is not a good idea. It may not be a very good situation.

---

Actually so was I
Again your dime,Im willing to get my a** beat any time,and buy ya a beer afterwords
Course Im also willing to do the beating,as well,and still buy ya a beer
Ive been very honest about that,this is my last go round,after this is done,Id best get my head around just being a trainer,cause thats all theres going to be
But for now,Im looking good and feeling it,but age happens to everyone,wether you like it or not

---

The expalining that I would have to do to convince my guys that I wasn't goin crazy would be unbearable. To convince them that it makes any sense whatsoever to fly out to go put a beating on a 37 yr old trainer wouldn't go over smoothly.

Good luck with ur people.

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37 year old Boxer/Trainer
Next few years it will be just be Trainer
But for now,come one bro,Im working my butt off for this.
At 37 its twice as bad,you got all the aches and pains to deal with,my shoulders tweaking,flys sucked today

Tell ya what,you'll cost me about 4 grand semi-pro
So if you can make a 180 catch weight
And can garuntee me that
Call our promoter Jerry Thomas
No Rough And Rowdy crap,Ill fight ya

Lost of focus

and Losing too much