Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?

Ideas? Does B Hop move top3? How far does Winky drop?

I have it thus

1. Floyd.. He isnt retired and it certainly seems to have been a ploy..So yes still number one

2. Bernard.. Strange choice i know but frankly having comeback still fighting great fighters and winning still, having moved up in weight also has to be considered since this is p4p.. Then even meeting winky at 170 more so for winky's comfort shows that he can and will take big named fighters at whatever weight..
And i beleive his resume equals pac at the same time as him bieng the more skillful fighter

3.Pac.. Still great and young.. Youve heard my reason for hopkins overtaking him but the thing keeping pac above winky is his winning streak and decent performances whereas i cant drop him any lower as hes still winnning and looking good and Winky did lose so he has to drop

4. Winky.. Self explanitory now

5.Cotto

Then in no particular order i would rate the likes of barrera, Jmm, Hatton. Calzaghe and Jermain perhaps at the end at this particular time

With Floyd retired . You could make a case for Hopkins being number 1 .

Winky was top 2/3 before last night and was well beaten .

1. PBF
2. Pacman
3. Hopkins definitely.
4. Winky

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Originally Posted by superg

1. PBF
2. Pacman
3. Hopkins definitely.
4. Winky

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i agree with this order :)

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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There's nothing good to say. You said it all for me though. He's dirty and I still think he lost last night so all that did was make me like boxings politics less.

Hes definately one of my favourite fighters of all time..

But its terribly hard to rank him all time.. I want to put him in the top ten.. Hes undoubtedly no lower then top 15 imo..

But just to find his placement between the top fifteen or so all time greatsn is hard,

But the thing that will sway him and will be his legacy is his entire package..

The man that was controversial in and out of the ring, The simple fact that he was not your average lineal champ that is considered the best or unproven or that there was any debate about the fact he was UNDISPUTED.. And even in his clearest loss to Rjj he was never really utterly dominated..

The entire package that is bernard hopkins and even the though that he may still have some marquee wins ahead of him might well make him undoubted top ten..

Its like ..Was hagler always thought of as greatest middleweight of all time?..
Was he thought of as an all time great when he left the game immediately?

Bernard hopkins has quoted himself on how it will be time that secures his legacy and when boxing is completely different and people look back on bernard hopkins he will be remembered as a legend and his legacy will grow with time

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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There's nothing good to say. You said it all for me though. He's dirty and I still think he lost last night so all that did was make me like boxings politics less.

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OK that tells me two things

1. You did not read the post because I never said he was dirty I said I don't want to hear the comments about him being dirty or any other comments like that...I want honset opinions on where he ranks...

2. You don't have to like him to know the difference between being a fan and knowing boxing....If all you have to say about an 11 year Middleweight champion with the most defenses of all time and current Ring LHW champion...Who has on his resume names like Trinidada and DLH that he disposed of without breaking a sweat...the number 3 is obvious

3. You know S*** about boxing

Though I already have expressed major disappointment in last nights outing, I will still rank him at least in the top 5, it's time to hang them up though. Great memories with him, but enough.

All time? Id say top 25, at the moment he goes number 2 P4P, he is 42, that is scary, the guy is a legend, id love to see Cazlaghe in there with him, but i doubt we will see that. I think his next fight should be with RJJ, beat him and retire as a living legend.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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There's nothing good to say. You said it all for me though. He's dirty and I still think he lost last night so all that did was make me like boxings politics less.

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OK that tells me two things

1. You did not read the post because I never said he was dirty I said I don't want to hear the comments about him being dirty or any other comments like that...I want honset opinions on where he ranks...

2. You don't have to like him to know the difference between being a fan and knowing boxing....If all you have to say about an 11 year Middleweight champion with the most defenses of all time and current Ring LHW champion...Who has on his resume names like Trinidada and DLH that he disposed of without breaking a sweat...the number 3 is obvious

3. You know S*** about boxing

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I forgot more than you'll ever know about boxing first of all. You're the one that was begging for a response so don't cry like a bi*** when you get it.

If you don't wnna hear that he's dirty then you should have said that you only want hopkins backers replying to your post. Even some of of them are not as blind as you and realize he's a dirty fighter and wouldn't be anywhere near where he is if not for illegal tactics.

Skill wise he is in a league of his own. He knows all the tricks and invented a lot of them. Even when he holds it is in a intellegent way, not like Ruiz holding or someone like that. He holds subtly with the arm thats opposite the ref. and throws short punches with the other hand and then immidiately spins out and some of the sh@t he does looks dirty and maybe it is but it works. But the way he does things isnt teachable. Hopkins is the definition of a guy who fights with his mind and is a genius at it. In terms of skill he top 15 of all time. In general hes in the top 25.

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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There's nothing good to say. You said it all for me though. He's dirty and I still think he lost last night so all that did was make me like boxings politics less.

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OK that tells me two things

1. You did not read the post because I never said he was dirty I said I don't want to hear the comments about him being dirty or any other comments like that...I want honset opinions on where he ranks...

2. You don't have to like him to know the difference between being a fan and knowing boxing....If all you have to say about an 11 year Middleweight champion with the most defenses of all time and current Ring LHW champion...Who has on his resume names like Trinidada and DLH that he disposed of without breaking a sweat...the number 3 is obvious

3. You know S*** about boxing

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I forgot more than you'll ever know about boxing first of all. You're the one that was begging for a response so don't cry like a bi*** when you get it.

If you don't wnna hear that he's dirty then you should have said that you only want hopkins backers replying to your post. Even some of of them are not as blind as you and realize he's a dirty fighter and wouldn't be anywhere near where he is if not for illegal tactics.

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Yeah like when Echols hip tossed him,or when Keith Holmes came out to fight him with his trunks around his tits.....................

I think with his accomplishments as a MW alone give him consideration as an ATG...Now with a onesided demolition of Tarver and close but definitive win over one of the most technical fighters of his era I dont know how he isn't in a top 15 P4P argument...He is the most dominant MW since Hagler, he beat two of the three best WW's of his time in ODH and Tito, beat the best Jr MW and LHW and if he does beat the Calzaghe/Kessler winner then I dont know how he isn't mentioned with the likes of SRL etc.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Ideas? Does B Hop move top3? How far does Winky drop?

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Neither of them should be in the p4p top10, but they have US passports

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Originally Posted by Peter Plys 44

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Ideas? Does B Hop move top3? How far does Winky drop?

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Neither of them should be in the p4p top10, but they have US passports

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Im sure your top 10 reads like this
Daniel Thorpe
Daniel Walker
Robert Burton
Craig Lynch
Paul Lomax
Jed Tytler
Peter Dunn
Matt Scriven
Martin Marshall
Keith Elwood

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

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would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

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Originally Posted by Preme

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

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Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Preme

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

---

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

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Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making fuck all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

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CC, that is an honest appraisal. Im a big Hopkins fan and have supported him in every one of his fights, but I think some are going a little overboard in his rating as an ATG. Hopkins at middleweight was dominant but as you say, his 2 big wins were against men coming up from lower weights.

His recent career has been calculated very well. Of course Hopkins has needed to be in top shape, but he did nothing to Tarver that Jones Jr could not have done if he hadnt been so gun shy. And Winky was fighting almost 2 weight groups outside what he last fought at. Hopkins knew Winky couldnt hurt him.

Im not trying to be overly cynical because I like Hopkins a lot, but a little balance is needed.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

---

CC, that is an honest appraisal. Im a big Hopkins fan and have supported him in every one of his fights, but I think some are going a little overboard in his rating as an ATG. Hopkins at middleweight was dominant but as you say, his 2 big wins were against men coming up from lower weights.

His recent career has been calculated very well. Of course Hopkins has needed to be in top shape, but he did nothing to Tarver that Jones Jr could not have done if he hadnt been so gun shy. And Winky was fighting almost 2 weight groups outside what he last fought at. Hopkins knew Winky couldnt hurt him.

Im not trying to be overly cynical because I like Hopkins a lot, but a little balance is needed.

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CC back!

I have always liked hopkins in the ring, not a fan of him outside it personally, but in the ring he is a clever exp fighter, he adapted well as he aged... i just don't see him in the top 20's, 30's just yet

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

Dont underestimate bitter coffee, that throws my whole day off...if it was bitter coffee I cant blame Winky for losing.

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Preme

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

---

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

---

Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making F*** all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

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"Ive done that before,why do I need to do it again"-Roy Jones Jr when he still had a belt
"He should take %40"-Roy Jones Jr when he didnt have a belt and Bernard was undisputed
"Ill fight him anywhere"-Roy Jones Jr now that nobody cares

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

---

Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

---

Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making F*** all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

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"Ive done that before,why do I need to do it again"-Roy Jones Jr when he still had a belt
"He should take %40"-Roy Jones Jr when he didnt have a belt and Bernard was undisputed
"Ill fight him anywhere"-Roy Jones Jr now that nobody cares

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I dunno what your on about, but you claim hopkins called him out? after hopkins beat Daniels there was a Tv link up with RJJ in his changing room just before he was going out to defend HIS WBC, WBA, IBF, IBO, WBF, IBA, NBA, - during that hopkins wanted roy to come down in weight, as well as fight for a 50-50 split...

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

---

would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

---

CC, that is an honest appraisal. Im a big Hopkins fan and have supported him in every one of his fights, but I think some are going a little overboard in his rating as an ATG. Hopkins at middleweight was dominant but as you say, his 2 big wins were against men coming up from lower weights.

His recent career has been calculated very well. Of course Hopkins has needed to be in top shape, but he did nothing to Tarver that Jones Jr could not have done if he hadnt been so gun shy. And Winky was fighting almost 2 weight groups outside what he last fought at. Hopkins knew Winky couldnt hurt him.

Im not trying to be overly cynical because I like Hopkins a lot, but a little balance is needed.

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CC back!

I have always liked hopkins in the ring, not a fan of him outside it personally, but in the ring he is a clever exp fighter, he adapted well as he aged... i just don't see him in the top 20's, 30's just yet

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He is a quality fighter and I would never knock that because I do have the utmost respect for him as a fighter. But if that middleweight reign is picked apart it can be seen that apart from the 2 junior middleweights moving up that there is a lot of filler there too. Hopkins has all the skills in the world but has calcualated his career a little too well. It only came a unstuck with Taylor and thats when he jumped up completely.

After he beat Ruiz Jones was asked about Hoopkins that was his response
After he lost to Tarver the second was his response
Now that nobody cares,Roy seems reall eager to fight either B-hop,or Calzeghe for that matter,but nobody cares anymore
Hey,what do Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson both have in common,other then beating Roy Jones Jr?

Why have the topics been merged?

They were both different topics..

One was about current P4P and the other his all time standing regardind greatness...

Would rather the titles were just changed to make them more clear..Now its just a jumble

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Originally Posted by Tito_BHB

Why have the topics been merged?

They were both different topics..

One was about current P4P and the other his all time standing regardind greatness...

Would rather the titles were just changed to make them more clear..Now its just a jumble

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I dont think anything has been merged. I think its just gone on a tangent and now seems like two different threads in one :-\

Revised posting.....yes, it all seems merged.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

After he beat Ruiz Jones was asked about Hoopkins that was his response
After he lost to Tarver the second was his response
Now that nobody cares,Roy seems reall eager to fight either B-hop,or Calzeghe for that matter,but nobody cares anymore
Hey,what do Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson both have in common,other then beating Roy Jones Jr?

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Who cares what fighters say when they are done... in thier primes, hopkins had a chance to fight roy, he let money get in his way, if he called him out when roy was getting on, and knocking about up at at heavys, well then that says it all

Better question is what does this do to Wright
I dont think much because of the rise in weight

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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There's nothing good to say. You said it all for me though. He's dirty and I still think he lost last night so all that did was make me like boxings politics less.

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OK that tells me two things

1. You did not read the post because I never said he was dirty I said I don't want to hear the comments about him being dirty or any other comments like that...I want honset opinions on where he ranks...

2. You don't have to like him to know the difference between being a fan and knowing boxing....If all you have to say about an 11 year Middleweight champion with the most defenses of all time and current Ring LHW champion...Who has on his resume names like Trinidada and DLH that he disposed of without breaking a sweat...the number 3 is obvious

3. You know S*** about boxing

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I forgot more than you'll ever know about boxing first of all. You're the one that was begging for a response so don't cry like a bi*** when you get it.

If you don't wnna hear that he's dirty then you should have said that you only want hopkins backers replying to your post. Even some of of them are not as blind as you and realize he's a dirty fighter and wouldn't be anywhere near where he is if not for illegal tactics.

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You forgot ore about Boxing then I'll ever Know :LMAO: :lol: :LOLATYOU: :lolhaha: :moon: :lolhaha: :lolololol: :LOLATYOU:


Don't embaress yourself any more then you already have.You have not even made a valid point on your post you are a :jester:

And your Tough Guy B**** Comments impress no one here at all...

Comments like that are usually made by people who are frustrated and have nothing worth while to reply with.....

Go Study Up Junior...Come back with the few facts you learn off the internet to try and make people think you actually do know something.....

You Have A good Day

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

After he beat Ruiz Jones was asked about Hoopkins that was his response
After he lost to Tarver the second was his response
Now that nobody cares,Roy seems reall eager to fight either B-hop,or Calzeghe for that matter,but nobody cares anymore
Hey,what do Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson both have in common,other then beating Roy Jones Jr?

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Who cares what fighters say when they are done... in thier primes, hopkins had a chance to fight roy, he let money get in his way, if he called him out when roy was getting on, and knocking about up at at heavys, well then that says it all

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When Roy's getting on?
Hopkins is 4 years older then Roy

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

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would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

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Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

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Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making F*** all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

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CC# 329...Though I don't totally agree with your answer you make Valid points.....IMO he is not the greatest I was just curious where some people felt he belonged....I was in no way trying to build up Hopkins or make a case for him one way or the other.....Just like to know how everyone else ranks him according to where I do....

IMO as middleweight he is in the top 3 or 4....As an all time fighter I think I put him a little higher somewhere around the high 20's to the mid 30's

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

After he beat Ruiz Jones was asked about Hoopkins that was his response
After he lost to Tarver the second was his response
Now that nobody cares,Roy seems reall eager to fight either B-hop,or Calzeghe for that matter,but nobody cares anymore
Hey,what do Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson both have in common,other then beating Roy Jones Jr?

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Who cares what fighters say when they are done... in thier primes, hopkins had a chance to fight roy, he let money get in his way, if he called him out when roy was getting on, and knocking about up at at heavys, well then that says it all

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When Roy's getting on?
Hopkins is 4 years older then Roy

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Its hard to really choose what is what when it comes to Roy and Bernard..

They are both Atg's..

But its not unfair to say that while roy was getting worse that bernard just got better with age

At the end of the day though,its almost impossable to slot guys all time when theyre still fighting
Everyone thought Tyson would be one of the all-timers
And while he still had a great career,it isnt top 5
Both Hopkins and Wright have some great achievements to point to though

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by Preme

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....

I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....

He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport

Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....

Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....

He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....

If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???

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would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...

hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...

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Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged

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Bernard hopkins talsk about fighting everyone and hardly any of them come off... All hopkins had to do to fight jones was just step up and take the 40% - there are just 2 simple reasons why hopkins didnt fight jones IMo and they are A) he new he would not beat him and rather stayed in a weak devision and make his money there or B) he really did think he was entitled to a 50-50 split, even tho jones had already beat him with one hand and was a 3 weight undisouted world champion, and all hopkins had done was beat tito...

I honestly don't know what one i would go for? I men Hopkins rather stayed at Mw fighting 'decent; fighters for years after he beat tito, all along he was making F*** all? there were fihts he went into in his home state of PA wher ehe didnt even know how much he was walking away with, wasn't he making under a mil for one or two fights, when he was the undisputed Mw champ? he choose that over $3m pay days with joe, a chance to become a 2 devision WC, or 40% of RJJ, and that would of been easily around 5 mill at that time??

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CC# 329...Though I don't totally agree with your answer you make Valid points.....Unlike some other guys Named Bx730NY....IMO he is not the greatest I was just curious where some people felt he belonged....I was in no way trying to build up Hopkins or make a case for him one way or the other.....Just like to know how everyone else ranks him according to where I do....

IMO as middleweight he is in the top 3 or 4....As an all time fighter I think I put him a little higher somewhere around the high 20's to the mid 30's

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without a doub hopkins is a top few at middle of all time, the other thing i have with placing fighters now, is boxing has been going on for sooooo long, evn the top 40 or 50 in the ATG list is still highly respectable group to be in...

but again with hopkins, he did need to be able to have a mega fight with a prime proven middleweight or LHW, or even if they wern't a prime, a fighter just starting to get old, Roy had Toney, and a good few names, sadly hopkins in his prime had to former Welters as his greatest wins, and with the talent out there and there being no reason why he couldn't step up, that will always stop me form putting hopkins high up in any great list..

CC back btw...

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bx730NY

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

What no one can answer the question with out taking shots at the guy?

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There's nothing good to say. You said it all for me though. He's dirty and I still think he lost last night so all that did was make me like boxings politics less.

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OK that tells me two things

1. You did not read the post because I never said he was dirty I said I don't want to hear the comments about him being dirty or any other comments like that...I want honset opinions on where he ranks...

2. You don't have to like him to know the difference between being a fan and knowing boxing....If all you have to say about an 11 year Middleweight champion with the most defenses of all time and current Ring LHW champion...Who has on his resume names like Trinidada and DLH that he disposed of without breaking a sweat...the number 3 is obvious

3. You know S*** about boxing

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I forgot more than you'll ever know about boxing first of all. You're the one that was begging for a response so don't cry like a bi*** when you get it.

If you don't wnna hear that he's dirty then you should have said that you only want hopkins backers replying to your post. Even some of of them are not as blind as you and realize he's a dirty fighter and wouldn't be anywhere near where he is if not for illegal tactics.

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You forgot ore about Boxing then I'll ever Know :LMAO: :lol: :LOLATYOU: :lolhaha: :moon: :lolhaha: :lolololol: :LOLATYOU:


Don't embaress yourself any more then you already have.You have not even made a valid point on your post you are a :jester:

And your Tough Guy B**** Comments impress no one here at all...

Comments like that are usually made by people who are frustrated and have nothing worth while to reply with.....

Go Study Up Junior...Come back with the few facts you learn off the internet to try and make people think you actually do know something.....

You Have A good Day

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Daxx, you asked for an opinion and he gave you an opinion.


Is this a forum for boxing fans or just arrogant boxing "geniuses" ?


It is funny you are calling him the "tough guy" when you are the one who attacked him for stating his opinion.

Bra,calling someone a B****?
Thats a little over the top
And on top of it,the guys wrong
Ive seen B-hop fight clean,Ive seen him fight dirty
Just as with every other fighter out there
Hell the 2 punches Liakovich took Brewster out with were both to the back of the head
And Brewster gets no sympathy,he was hitting him with elbows all night
It'll be a cold day in hell when Holyfield gets through an entire fight without an intentional headbut
Hell we have Sonny Liston on tape,blatantly showing why thumbs are attached now
Some of the most blatantly dirty crap Ive seen in Hopkins fights,have been done to him
I think hip-tossing someone and seperating their shoulder is a little worse then popping someone on the thigh in a clinch