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I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Man i can't believe i forgot how much power this man had i hadn't watched his fights for ages and now watching them again wow is all i can say i rate him alot higher in power department the power he knocked my boy Holmes down with was devasting and also the i would say top 3 of all time easy just watch this shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jK7AVHft4U
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Yeah, that was a superb knockout blow.
I never get bored of watching the pre jail Tyson. He was a wrecking machine. Even as he was losing his skills post Douglas he still had that power. The Ruddock fights were quality entertainment.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Given the way his career ended, the mess his personal life became, and the general sense that he never reached his potential and/or went downhill too soon, Tyson is currently underrated.
If nothing else, his punching power should not be doubted. With his bob-and-weave style, defensive ability, and tremendous (for a heavyweight) hand speed, he was a much more complete fighter in his prime than some other great pure punchers: Foreman, Shavers, and Liston. Mike though, was mentally weak (despite a great intelligence--no dumb people read Mao for fun), and never possessed the determination to win once the going got tough. In this sense, he had the mentality of a classic bully: if he didn't get you right away, you had a real chance to get him.
Specifically, he never learned to fight backwards, and thus was unable to adapt as he aged (like Ali). Despite great boxing knowledge, he never won on guile or strategy, relying almost exclusively on power and intimidation. Holyfield and Foreman, though not as intelligent as Mike, were much more determined and mentally tough. Men of Faith, they really fooled themselves into believing they were destined to win. Tyson, remarkably self-aware, reflective, and mentally tortured, was in a way too sophisticated to be a true warrior. War is not the time for nuanced men of self-doubt.
But Foreman, IMO, was the hardest hitter in boxing history. His destruction of Frazier--5 knockdowns and the last resulting in Frazier being lifted off the canvas by Foreman's sheer punching power--is arguably the greatest knockout in history. Frazier was the champ, had defeated the greatest heavyweight ever, was undefeated himself and on his way to becoming a legend. Never before or since has a fighter so great been destroyed so thoroughly.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
My favourite youtube boxing vid has some good Tyson ko's. After Louis and Marciano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiI2rBggtpc
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Excellent writing Manju, the only thing I would say is that Tyson could not really change his style of fight like the boxers you named. In my opinion he had the best boxing skills of all the great "sluggers" (Dempsey, Marciano, maybe Louis, Frazier and Foreman) and in my opinion beaten them. Great boxers like Ali, Lewis and Holyfield could have beaten him but this is up to debate (and boy it has been debated).
I do believe that Tyson was mentally tough and would have given the greats a good fight in his prime and not wilted as he did later in his career when he lost his discipline and desire for the game.
I agree Foreman is the hardest punching heavyweight champion but Shavers the hardest punching heavyweight, which is probably the reason why he never became a champion because he relied on his power too much.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
No HW threw or throws their weight into their punches like Tyson imo.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manju
Given the way his career ended, the mess his personal life became, and the general sense that he never reached his potential and/or went downhill too soon, Tyson is currently underrated.
If nothing else, his punching power should not be doubted. With his bob-and-weave style, defensive ability, and tremendous (for a heavyweight) hand speed, he was a much more complete fighter in his prime than some other great pure punchers: Foreman, Shavers, and Liston. Mike though, was mentally weak (despite a great intelligence--no dumb people read Mao for fun), and never possessed the determination to win once the going got tough. In this sense, he had the mentality of a classic bully: if he didn't get you right away, you had a real chance to get him.
Specifically, he never learned to fight backwards, and thus was unable to adapt as he aged (like Ali). Despite great boxing knowledge, he never won on guile or strategy, relying almost exclusively on power and intimidation. Holyfield and Foreman, though not as intelligent as Mike, were much more determined and mentally tough. Men of Faith, they really fooled themselves into believing they were destined to win. Tyson, remarkably self-aware, reflective, and mentally tortured, was in a way too sophisticated to be a true warrior. War is not the time for nuanced men of self-doubt.
But Foreman, IMO, was the hardest hitter in boxing history. His destruction of Frazier--5 knockdowns and the last resulting in Frazier being lifted off the canvas by Foreman's sheer punching power--is arguably the greatest knockout in history. Frazier was the champ, had defeated the greatest heavyweight ever, was undefeated himself and on his way to becoming a legend. Never before or since has a fighter so great been destroyed so thoroughly.
:coolclick: great posting and welcome to the board. Call me crazy though but I always felt Joe Frazier was over theatrical in his knockdowns by Foreman. When he got lifted off the canvas I felt it was Joe doing some amatuer dramatics. He got a beatdown no doubt but I think he exaggerated it a bit as he was looking for a way out.............
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manju
Given the way his career ended, the mess his personal life became, and the general sense that he never reached his potential and/or went downhill too soon, Tyson is currently underrated.
If nothing else, his punching power should not be doubted. With his bob-and-weave style, defensive ability, and tremendous (for a heavyweight) hand speed, he was a much more complete fighter in his prime than some other great pure punchers: Foreman, Shavers, and Liston. Mike though, was mentally weak (despite a great intelligence--no dumb people read Mao for fun), and never possessed the determination to win once the going got tough. In this sense, he had the mentality of a classic bully: if he didn't get you right away, you had a real chance to get him.
Specifically, he never learned to fight backwards, and thus was unable to adapt as he aged (like Ali). Despite great boxing knowledge, he never won on guile or strategy, relying almost exclusively on power and intimidation. Holyfield and Foreman, though not as intelligent as Mike, were much more determined and mentally tough. Men of Faith, they really fooled themselves into believing they were destined to win. Tyson, remarkably self-aware, reflective, and mentally tortured, was in a way too sophisticated to be a true warrior. War is not the time for nuanced men of self-doubt.
But Foreman, IMO, was the hardest hitter in boxing history. His destruction of Frazier--5 knockdowns and the last resulting in Frazier being lifted off the canvas by Foreman's sheer punching power--is arguably the greatest knockout in history. Frazier was the champ, had defeated the greatest heavyweight ever, was undefeated himself and on his way to becoming a legend. Never before or since has a fighter so great been destroyed so thoroughly.
That's some very eloquent writing, and welcome to the forum, a CC from me for such a well written piece. However I would argue that your assumptions about Tyson's intelligence, self awareness and ability to reflect upon himself as you allude to ("Tyson, remarkably self-aware, reflective") may be somewhat misguided. My view is that someone that aware and reflective would not have ended up in the situation Mike has. Also you state "Specifically, he never learned to fight backwards, and thus was unable to adapt as he aged (like Ali)". I think you miss the point on both guys here. Ali had other health issues later in his career as a boxer and Mike did too, his psychological issues and the time he'd done. With regard to "no dumb people read Mao for fun", most people in prison read this kind of stuff. Lots of dumb people read lots of stuff and interpret it incorrectly. Just reading something doesn't make one intelligent, 5 yr olds can read. But finally Tyson's power can't be denied. His ability as a boxer early on can't be denied. The amalgamation of his private life with his sporting life has been a shame and has tainted IMO the career of one of the great boxers of our time.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Tyson's post-jail career caused many of us to forget how devastating he was. Foreman may have hit harder but no one could use their power as effectively as Tyson could. Tyson's career as the most feared man in the world was over when he stopped moving his head but for the golden years when he did bob and weave he was unbelievable. I never bought into Tyson being frail minded and a weak character. He was articulate, no doubt, but he never seemed to have full control of himself. I also think that Tyson's 'get them quick or be beaten' style didn't come from him being a bully. When you knock as many guys out as Tyson did you belive thats the best way for you to win. Tyson proved in some of his early bouts that If he didn't get you early he could box for the decision whilst still probing the opponent in case the K.O opportunity arose.
I still believe Shavers is the hardest hitter in Heavweight history. I think Foreman's power was overrated, i'm not saying he couldn't hit but at times he floored guys with sheer, constant pressin forward and pressure. Then he wouldland the big blow. But Shavers could k.o anyone clean out at anytime in a fight no matter what.Tyson and Foreman could bang like hell but for mr Shavers is head and shoulders above the rest. Yet out of the 3, Tyson was the better fighter, IMO, even though Foreman is undeniably more succsesfull and greater. There's a big difference between the best and the greatest
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Man i can't believe i forgot how much power this man had i hadn't watched his fights for ages and now watching them again wow is all i can say i rate him alot higher in power department the power he knocked my boy Holmes down with was devasting and also the i would say top 3 of all time easy just watch this shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jK7AVHft4U
what made you change you mind?.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Man i can't believe i forgot how much power this man had i hadn't watched his fights for ages and now watching them again wow is all i can say i rate him alot higher in power department the power he knocked my boy Holmes down with was devasting and also the i would say top 3 of all time easy just watch this shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jK7AVHft4U
what made you change you mind?.
Because i always remembered Tyson being good puncher with great technique but i underrated his power because i hadn't watched his fights for ages except the Tillis fight so watching some Tyson fights again reminded me what a powerhouse he was.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
thre reason why people question tysons power is because a lot of tysons opponents in the eighties said that he didnt hit that hard.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
thre reason why people question tysons power is because a lot of tysons opponents in the eighties said that he didnt hit that hard.
Most of those guys had to have somebody wake them up to tell them the fight was over.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
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I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
May I ask? What gave you the impression he wasn't a dangerous puncher? Admittedly if you watched the McBride and Danny Williams fights only you might wonder. But I have watched him since the begining and that thought never crossed my mind. He did KO his first 19 opponents(16 of which in the first 3 rounds).
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoster
Quote:
I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
May I ask? What gave you the impression he wasn't a dangerous puncher? Admittedly if you watched the McBride and Danny Williams fights only you might wonder. But I have watched him since the begining and that thought never crossed my mind. He did KO his first 19 opponents(16 of which in the first 3 rounds).
Where did i say i thought he wasn't a dangerous puncher ?? i had watched all his fights well most of them but i hadn't watched them since i was young and my memory went a bit cloudy but refreshing my memory again i now think he is top 3 p4p for punching power the fight that got me into boxing was Holyfield and Tyson i remember watching that wow.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
I think Tyson had great power but IMO Louis was the greatest puncher of all time.
I think Tyson is in at least the top 15 of all time but doesn't crack the top 10 for me. In the top 10 hitters for heavyweights though.
I mean you guys like Langford, Moore, Wild, Saddler, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons, Foreman, Shavers, Oliveras, Gomez, Dempsey, Marciano & Liston who could all rate higher!
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
I think Tyson had great power but IMO Louis was the greatest puncher of all time.
I think Tyson is in at least the top 15 of all time but doesn't crack the top 10 for me. In the top 10 hitters for heavyweights though.
I mean you guys like Langford, Moore, Wild, Saddler, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons, Foreman, Shavers, Oliveras, Gomez, Dempsey, Marciano & Liston who could all rate higher!
Langford, Wild , Moore , Ketchell, Fitsimmons were all light heavyweights . No way they hit harder than tyson . Dempsey wore 4 ounce gloves give me a break . Marciano no way in hell , he never one punched guys it was an accumulation of punches . Liston, foreman and shavers probably hit harder than tyson . But the rest on that list didnt come close to tysons power.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
the man respect his opponents he always hep them up instead of celebrating
but it obivious lightweights dont hit harder than heavyweight
but it all alround like to daniel ponce de leon p4p today
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Good to see your seeing the light ICE lol ;D about time
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Good to see your seeing the light ICE lol ;D about time
;D
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Good to see your seeing the light ICE lol ;D about time
;D
Maybe he will become a fan of Tyson ;)
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Good to see your seeing the light ICE lol ;D about time
;D
Maybe he will become a fan of Tyson ;)
Pre jail what is there not to like! As Alan Partridge would say "Lovely stuff!"
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Good to see your seeing the light ICE lol ;D about time
;D
Maybe he will become a fan of Tyson ;)
Pre jail what is there not to like! As Alan Partridge would say "Lovely stuff!"
Or ''Back of the net'' lol i ant been on for ages
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYSONBRUNO
Good to see your seeing the light ICE lol ;D about time
;D
Maybe he will become a fan of Tyson ;)
Pre jail what is there not to like! As Alan Partridge would say "Lovely stuff!"
Or ''Back of the net'' lol i ant been on for ages
"Kiss my face!" ;D
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
I enjoy a Tyson fight my favorite Tyson fight has to be 2 Ruddock fights because Ruddock forced Tyson to dig deep and they were wars all punches being thrown were power punches i don't think i will ever be a fan but will i enjoy his fights ?? you bet i will.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
I enjoy a Tyson fight my favorite Tyson fight has to be 2 Ruddock fights because Ruddock forced Tyson to dig deep and they were wars all punches being thrown were power punches i don't think i will ever be a fan but will i enjoy his fights ?? you bet i will.
its strange though that ruddock, holmes and holyfield said that other fighters such as morrison,shavers,foreman punched a lot harder . maybe tysons power is overrated.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Man i can't believe i forgot how much power this man had i hadn't watched his fights for ages and now watching them again wow is all i can say i rate him alot higher in power department the power he knocked my boy Holmes down with was devasting and also the i would say top 3 of all time easy just watch this shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jK7AVHft4U
I like Tyson and thinks that it was his quick hands rather than his power which KOed his opponents. Great fighter.
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
I think Tyson had great power but IMO Louis was the greatest puncher of all time.
I think Tyson is in at least the top 15 of all time but doesn't crack the top 10 for me. In the top 10 hitters for heavyweights though.
I mean you guys like Langford, Moore, Wild, Saddler, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons, Foreman, Shavers, Oliveras, Gomez, Dempsey, Marciano & Liston who could all rate higher!
Langford, Wild , Moore , Ketchell, Fitsimmons were all light heavyweights . No way they hit harder than tyson . Dempsey wore 4 ounce gloves give me a break . Marciano no way in hell , he never one punched guys it was an accumulation of punches . Liston, foreman and shavers probably hit harder than tyson . But the rest on that list didnt come close to tysons power.
For starters Moore has the most KO's ever! Enough said there! Look at Ketchel's KO ratio! P4P which I think Ice Cold was referring to when he sais Tyson was top 3 of all time then Tyson ain't in the mix with these guys! Marciano never one punched? Go watch the 1st Walcolt fight! The other guys I listed are all time great punchers P4P. Tyson's early KO's are deceptive because his opponents were limited at best!
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Re: I Changed My Mind About Tysons Power After Watching Some Of His Fights Again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy.
I think Tyson had great power but IMO Louis was the greatest puncher of all time.
I think Tyson is in at least the top 15 of all time but doesn't crack the top 10 for me. In the top 10 hitters for heavyweights though.
I mean you guys like Langford, Moore, Wild, Saddler, Ketchel, Fitzsimmons, Foreman, Shavers, Oliveras, Gomez, Dempsey, Marciano & Liston who could all rate higher!
Langford, Wild , Moore , Ketchell, Fitsimmons were all light heavyweights . No way they hit harder than tyson . Dempsey wore 4 ounce gloves give me a break . Marciano no way in hell , he never one punched guys it was an accumulation of punches . Liston, foreman and shavers probably hit harder than tyson . But the rest on that list didnt come close to tysons power.
For starters Moore has the most KO's ever! Enough said there! Look at Ketchel's KO ratio! P4P which I think Ice Cold was referring to when he sais Tyson was top 3 of all time then Tyson ain't in the mix with these guys! Marciano never one punched? Go watch the 1st Walcolt fight! The other guys I listed are all time great punchers P4P. Tyson's early KO's are deceptive because his opponents were limited at best!
Yes i was meaning in hws Galaxy but p4p i think Julian Jackson is hardest hitter.
