Barrera: Marquez...After reflection who do you think won?

I watched this fight again for the first time in a good while last night. A quality fight with 2 of the best fighters in the game. Barrera looked technical but was ready to unload when called for.

I scored it as follows

1-Barrera 10-9
2-Barrera 20-18
3-Barrera 30-27
4-Marquez 39-37
5-Even 49-47
6-Barrera 59-56
7-Marquez 67-66 (10-8 Marquez but I still have issues with the point deduction and the uncalled kd)

8- Barrera 77-75
9-Barrera 87-84
10- Marquez 96-94
11- Barrera 106-103
12- Even 116-113

I have it Barrera by 3 points. A quality fight and in terms of technical boxing mixed with hard power shots landed and the sheer intensity of it all...its my fight of the year so far!!

How do you guys see this fight in retrospect?















Note: Can certain Pac fans please abstain from deviating the intentions of this thread as they have too many other Barrera threads. Thank you!! ;)

yeh I had barrera by 2 points

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Originally Posted by leftylee

yeh I had barrera by 2 points

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If the knock down had been scored then IMO its a very clear victory. A couple of those rounds I really couldnt divide them. Real score for score rounds. Admittedly the even rounds could see me being biased in favour of Barrera but I really tried to stay straight in my scoring. Even if those rounds go go Marquez then it is a Barrera win regardless and thats me as pro Marquez as it is possible to go.

Barrera really is far from washed up.

And the nature of the actual scoring of that fight was an absolute disgrace.

I actually can't remember now but I think I will try and find time to watch it again over the weekend.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I actually can't remember now but I think I will try and find time to watch it again over the weekend.

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I read a couple of mentions on another thread of it possibly being a highlight of the year. I remembered loving the fight and went back to watch it. Usually with hindsight you realise some errors in your scoring, but I realise that Barrera did just as well as I thought and that he is once again being underestimated by some now...

Barrera still has it! :D

I remember having Barrera slighty ahead but remember Miles even if knockdown would of been scored Barrera would of only won the round by 1 point because Marquez dominated the round up until that point.

Fight of the year in my opinion. Two superb technical boxers who also can mix it up. Barrera was ultra sharp in the beginning, but Marquez settled down in later rounds. I still think the scoring was a complete joke. I had it a draw at the very LEAST. As far as Barrera...i have no idea how anyone can think he is "washed up" after watching this fight. Sure, he is not in his prime....but he is such fantastic, intelligent boxer. Even in the round that Marquez had him in serious trouble...Marco should his heart and brilliance with the knockdown shot. What people really tend to forget is that the one fight Barrera has really wanted in the past few years has been the Pac fight. I think that's the one fight that would truly bring out his fire. He never really wanted to fight Juarez...especially since he was preparing originally to go to 135 to face Chavez. And i really think he would have rather faced Pac in the last year rather than Marquez. But obviously that fight couldn't be made until now. He faced a strong up and comer in Juarez....and he went to war with him in the first fight...and completely out boxed him in the second fight. He then fought one of the best fighters in the game in Marquez. Now he is fighting one of the most exciting and dangerous fighters in Pac. The man deserves major props for finishing his brilliant career by taking fights like this. Does he have enough in the tank to beat Manny? Not sure. Technically he is as sharp as ever. Stamina, however, will be the big question. If he can come into this fight in tremendous shape...he has the skills and intelligence to beat Pac. I think it will be a much closer fight than many are expecting.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

I remember having Barrera slighty ahead but remember Miles even if knockdown would of been scored Barrera would of only won the round by 1 point because Marquez dominated the round up until that point.

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Yes, but the round was scored 10-8 including the point deduction. So reverse a 2 point deficit with a round supporting Barrera by 1 and IMO you have a pretty clear Barrera win! :)

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Fight of the year in my opinion. Two superb technical boxers who also can mix it up. Barrera was ultra sharp in the beginning, but Marquez settled down in later rounds. I still think the scoring was a complete joke. I had it a draw at the very LEAST. As far as Barrera...i have no idea how anyone can think he is "washed up" after watching this fight. Sure, he is not in his prime....but he is such fantastic, intelligent boxer. Even in the round that Marquez had him in serious trouble...Marco should his heart and brilliance with the knockdown shot. What people really tend to forget is that the one fight Barrera has really wanted in the past few years has been the Pac fight. I think that's the one fight that would truly bring out his fire. He never really wanted to fight Juarez...especially since he was preparing originally to go to 135 to face Chavez. And i really think he would have rather face Pac in the last year rather than Marquez. But obviously that fight couldn't be made until now. he faced a strong up and comer in Juarez....and he went to war with him in the first fight...and completely out boxed him in the second fight. He then fought one of the best fighters in the game in Marquez. Now he is fighting one of the most exciting and dangerous fighters in Pac. The man deserves major props for finishing his brilliant career by taking fights like this. Does he have enough in the tank to beat Manny? Not sure. Technically he is as sharp as ever. Stamina, however, will be the big question. If he can come into this fight in tremendous shape...he has the skills and intelligence to beat Pac. I think it will be a much closer fight than many are expecting.

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AAAARGHH!!! You brought Pac into the discussion!!! :o

But you made some excellent points so :coolclick:

I agree completely that the Pac fight will be much closer than many are anticipating. I cannot wait. We have some great fights coming up later this year and this has to be one of my favorites.

And why are the Marquez voters abstaining from discussion completely? I would really like to hear their opinions too. It was a quality fight, Im sure some would make a claim for Marquez winning. I would like them to back it up though.

The poll now shows an even spread and yet no Marquez winners have stepped forward at all. :-\

Is this a closed topic then, people? Barrera did in fact beat Marquez and quite handily....

Marquez fans deserved to be ashamed of themselves!!! >:mad

Haha! I'm sure we will hear from the Marquez fans soon enough Miles...and probably the Pac fans too ;)

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Originally Posted by zhubin

Haha! I'm sure we will hear from the Marquez fans soon enough Miles...and probably the Pac fans too ;)

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The Marquez fans are welcome....but those Pac ones should refer to the opening posting. I dont want that shit here. That deserves its time and place.

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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I don't care what the other sites had it i had Barrera ahead Marquez landed more power punches but thats only because of the one sided round in 7th and one other round which i forgot other than that Barrera was slighty outlanding Marquez it was very close fight i wouldn't of been disappointing whoever won but by the wide margins judges had it ??

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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I don't care what the other sites had it i had Barrera ahead Marquez landed more power punches but thats only because of the one sided round in 7th and one other round which i forgot other than that Barrera was slighty outlanding Marquez it was very close fight i wouldn't of been disappointing whoever won but by the wide margins judges had it ??

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Well,I find the scores of guys like Doug Fischer etc,guys who have been watching boxing for over 25 plus years more significant than most other opinions.Also,they were ringside so it gives them a better view and I watch the fight minus the punch stats(minu the first time) ,it influences the view too much especially when views are so biased towards one fighter.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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I don't care what the other sites had it i had Barrera ahead Marquez landed more power punches but thats only because of the one sided round in 7th and one other round which i forgot other than that Barrera was slighty outlanding Marquez it was very close fight i wouldn't of been disappointing whoever won but by the wide margins judges had it ??

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Well,I find the scores of guys like Doug Fischer etc,guys who have been watching boxing for over 25 plus years more significant than most other opinions.Also,they were ringside so it gives them a better view and I watch the fight minus the punch stats(minu the first time) ,it influences the view too much especially when views are so biased towards one fighter.

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Well Gamo thats fine and dandy mate but if i believe a fighter has won a fight i don't care who disagrees thats my opinion and before i even knew punchstats i thought Barrera won but all im saying is that some people use that Marquez landed more power punches and i was just pointing out why he did because of 2 one sided rounds i have watched the fight 2 times once with sound once without and i had Barrera edging it.

Well,you're entitled to your opinion,but the fight wasn't a robbery and JMM won.End of for me.And for most JMM fans.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well,you're entitled to your opinion,but the fight wasn't a robbery and JMM won.End of for me.And for most JMM fans.

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Didn't say it was robbery mate was just disappointed with the judges scores like i said it could of gone either way and Marquez won but if Pac fight can't be made i believe Barrera deserves a rematch.

Barrera CLEARLY scored a knockdown and prematurely penalized when he punched JMM while he was down.

Jeff Nady really fuck3d up on that one. That fight would've been a draw or even a win for MAB.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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No offence taken. I initially saw the fight on Korean television, and believe me, I dont know enough Korean to be sucked into any Korean bias! ;D

I know how to score a fight and even giving the rounds I think were possibly even then Barrera still wins by 1. Barrera won. If you would like to make a case against Barrera winning then please post your card and then lets discuss it and break it down step by step.

I dont care who landed the harder shots. Marquez was dominating Barrera in the 7th and Barrera didnt have an equally dominant round like it. But a fight comes on a round by round basis and thats the way it should be scored. Marquez's strong 7th is cancelled out by a less dominant Barrera 8th. Thats the way boxing works.

Compubox stats do not tell the story of the fight by a long shot.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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I don't care what the other sites had it i had Barrera ahead Marquez landed more power punches but thats only because of the one sided round in 7th and one other round which i forgot other than that Barrera was slighty outlanding Marquez it was very close fight i wouldn't of been disappointing whoever won but by the wide margins judges had it ??

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:coolclick:, fella

Thats why I started this thread. I couldnt care less what critics or other sites feel about the fight. Im interested here in what my fellow Saddoneans feel about the fight now the hype and excitement has fallen away.

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Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

Barrera CLEARLY scored a knockdown and prematurely penalized when he punched JMM while he was down.

Jeff Nady really fuck3d up on that one. That fight would've been a draw or even a win for MAB.

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I agree completely. :coolclick:

Whats done is now done but that was a messed up situation. Its a credit to Barrera that he came back strong in the 8th and 9th after such a beating in the 7th and then having the knockdown not called.

I think Marquez won the fight it was close but the decision went to the right guy IMO.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

No offence Miles but JMM fans are'nt posting because they all saw who won and it's been recorded who won,JMM.The first time,I had it close because I had the commentary on and was sucked into the bias. The second,third and fourth times,I had JMM by wider margins. Try listening to the fight without the bias bordering on cocksucking commentary(ie JMM landin clean punches and the punch visibly landing and MAB supposedly "rolled" it) by Lampley and Steward for MAB and you'll see who won.

Also,all of front row,and nearly all big sites had JMM by 4/5 points,I posted the scores myself,straight after the fight.Max boxing, fightnews, Eastside,BoxingTalk all had wide margins for JMM.

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I don't care what the other sites had it i had Barrera ahead Marquez landed more power punches but thats only because of the one sided round in 7th and one other round which i forgot other than that Barrera was slighty outlanding Marquez it was very close fight i wouldn't of been disappointing whoever won but by the wide margins judges had it ??

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:coolclick:, fella

Thats why I started this thread. I couldnt care less what critics or other sites feel about the fight. Im interested here in what my fellow Saddoneans feel about the fight now the hype and excitement has fallen away.

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:coolclick: back bro totally agree.

JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!

jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.

For those who are adamant that Marquez won, I would be interested to see how you scored each of the rounds. Im asking this out of curiosity because I really find it hard to see how it could be anything less than Barrera by a point.

It was a close fight and some of those rounds were awkward ones...

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Originally Posted by miles

For those who are adamant that Marquez won, I would be interested to see how you scored each of the rounds. Im asking this out of curiosity because I really find it hard to see how it could be anything less than Barrera by a point.

It was a close fight and some of those rounds were awkward ones...

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i would love to post my round by round but its been a while since the fight. So I really need to watch it again to remember, but I know JMM clearly won and it was NOT that close to call it controversial. OFcourse mab fans or supporter will argue but it was one of those fight that both fighters are great, but JMM just won. he just won plain and simple he WON. what else is there to say he won. ;D

JMM WON dot, dot, dot.

3 for MAB

9 for JMM

this just proves, we have more educated boxing fans than delusional onces ;D

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!

jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.

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CC bro,says it all really,especially the highlighted part.JMM took majority of control as the fight wore on,backing MAB up,landing,hooks,combinations,right hands,especially in the last few rounds.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!

jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.

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CC bro,says it all really,especially the highlighted part.JMM took majority of control as the fight wore on,backing MAB up,landing,hooks,combinations,right hands,especially in the last few rounds.

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I saw Barrera clearly winning the first 3 and the 6th. Then 7 and 8 were extremely convincing too. Marquez did come on with a couple of big rounds in the second half (I think the 7th and 10th) but I find it hard to consider that Marquez won the majority of the rounds as a whole. He had the most dominant rounds but having more dominant rounds doesnt mean more than Barrera winning less dominant rounds on the cards. This only affects the perceptions of those who really are not scoring a fight as it should be scored.

Well when there are rounds MAB lands jabs,and JMM lands power punches,why would I give the round to MAB? Cleaner harder punching is the criteria. Power punching fulfills that criteria moreso than jabs. JMM won clearly,the record books show,press row had him winning and Saddoneans have him winning. I have nothing else to say,

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well when there are rounds MAB lands jabs,and JMM lands power punches,why would I give the round to MAB? Cleaner harder punching is the criteria. Power punching fulfills that criteria moreso than jabs. JMM won clearly,the record books show,press row had him winning and Saddoneans have him winning. I have nothing else to say,

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In rounds where Barrera lands nothing more than jabs and Marquez lands a significant number of power shots then clearly those rounds will be scored for Marquez. The fight was a tale of 2 halves Barrrera was leading the fight at the half way point and Marquez did come into the fight more in the seconds half. Marquez dominated the rounds that he won and Barrera did his work by looking busier than Marquez in the rounds that he won.

Im not disputing that JMM won. I know this and accept this. But for me this is a fight like the first Hopkins: Taylor fight. Or even the Barrera: Morales fights. A case can be made that either fighter won depending upon how you score the fight. Debate will not change the result. But a bit of debate is all im seeking here.

Its fine with me if a majority of people think Marquez won but I would like to hear their opinions too and perhaps know how they scored the individual rounds of the fight. So far nobody has been able to go as far as doing that though.

My opinion isnt set in stone, it can be altered by a convincing argument. But so far noone has broken down for me how Barrera lost the fight. Especially not as far as by a possible 4 point margin! :o

Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.

As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.

As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.

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Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.

I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.

An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!

jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.

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What you just said there you have not explained why JMM should of won considering Barrera did land more punches overall.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.

As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.

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Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.

I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.

An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.

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CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.

I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.

I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

JMM WON, the knock down should of counted but it doesn't change the outcome. JMM STILL WON!!!!!!!

jmm made the fight, he caught mab more and more often. MAB didn't do more to deserve the win. JMM took it and JMM deserved it, end of story.

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And Also what do you mean Barrera didn't do more to deserve to win ?? Barrera fought his heart out threw more and landed more.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Wow, I've never really discussed this fight much, I guess I was not around here at the time. I thought Marquez won it clearly. I've only seen it once, I don't remember how I scored each exact round but I'm Miles I'm surprised you had Barrera winning the 11th and having the 12th a draw. I clearly thought he swept the last three, I remember that for sure. I thought JMM was getting more dominant as the fight went on, especially those last three.

As for why I scored the fight the way I did, I thought it was clear who was doing damage, and that was JMM. MAB worked the jab pretty well and did pretty well early (again I can't remember round for round, I may download it actually and watch it again just to see if maybe I was wrong slightly but honestly I can't see how my card would change that much. That and I'd have to sit through Lampley verbally massaging Barrera's genitals for another 12 rounds.) But I thought JMM was slicker, seemed more accurate with power punches, landed the far better punches, and when they exchanged I thought he got the best almost every time. I tend to side with effective damaging punching more in scoring a fight though so maybe that's why I thought it was so clear.

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Fair points. :coolclick:, for bringing up specific rounds that I should re-evaluate.

I do still think that Barrera won the 11th. He controlled the majority of the round with his jab. Marquez landed some nice blows but for much of the round was ineffective. I conceded earlier in the thread that the even rounds were possibly Marquez rounds. I think those were the 5th and 12th. Barrera does indeed have his moments in the 12th also though.

An awkward fight to score and thats the main reason why I wanted it discussed.

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CC. I thought JMM won it fairly clearly but I've only seen it once.

I'm going to download it and watch it again with the sound off.

I mean I've been a big Barrera fan for a while but I almost started rooting for JMM during the fight because of HBO's commentary. It was that bad, Lampley was crediting Barrera for landing punches that he never threw. Just think if Lampley loved Winky like he does Barrera, Winky could just stay in his shell, throw no punches, and win a UD on Lampley's scorecard. I actually am going to watch it again with no sound, to see if maybe I gave JMM too much of the benefit of the doubt because I was so disgusted by Lampley. If that makes any sense at all. ??? Cause I was shocked to see people thought Barrera won actually, I guess I was really out of the loop around the time of this fight and I didn't see what people on here thought about it.

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I initially watched it on the Korean networks so I had no need to worry about bias. I had Barrera edging it by a point or two. I recently decided to reevaluate and watch it again and I did score it Barrera by 3 points. I watched it again. The two rounds I gave as even are the only rounds that are not clear but must be scored to someone and so I do see how the edge might go to Marquez in those. Especially the 5th.

Marquez had 2 huge rounds in the fight and that does seem to have sewn most of the opinions on this fight. But if you take it on a round by round basis, I find it incredibly hard to make a case for JMM winning. A dominant round is still equal to a round won in a less domineering fashion.