What makes for a good trainer?

everybody has a different idea when it comes to developing a regular person into a fighter. thought it would be interesting to see what you guys thought. i think a good trainer is a guy who, beyond just teaching them how to punch and counter and things like that, also teaches him how to think. this trainer's ultimate goal is to get his pupil to be able to think creatively/rationally on his own. So that eventually he doesnt need a trainer or corner advice because he already understands the elements of boxing comprehensively. this trainer does this by nurturing his student's love of boxing. he doesnt just run them through drills but sits and watches fights together and talks boxing with them all day. they spend most of their training time doing just that: sharing views and chatting about boxing. The more a person knows about boxing the more weapons they have in their arsenal so its not just for fun it also translates to fighting eventually. I think many fighters are not creative or rational thinkers/fighters because it ultimately goes back to not spending enough time THINKING about boxing in the first place. Thats ultimately the trainers fault for creating a rigid fighter who cannot think outside of the box to save his life because he was never taught to do so. Because the trainer acted like a boss that didn't allow any discourse or debate between the two. debates and things like that should be heavily encouraged because it promotes critical thinking which is the greatest weapon of all in fighting. but i rarely ever see it happening between trainer and fighter.

THOMAS 200% CC

Odd,early on in all of my fighters,and all throughout are made to write down their combinations,and to explain to me what they were hoping to achieve with combination,how one shot leads to another.
Also,we constantly watch tape after trainings done and I explain to them whats happening in the fight
Now mind you though,I run a private gym with hand picked fighters so I have the luxury of paying more attention,and putting in more time

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Originally Posted by Scrap

THOMAS 200% CC

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Scrap the speech they all get coming in the door here
"I want you to understand,you are not just here to learn how to hit things,any idiot can hit something,boxing is chess with fists,and if you are not prepared to learn how to think in the ring,you are wasting my time,and your money."

Ive yet to have a fighter Ive wasted my time with they might have I didnt I learned from every one of them.

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Ive yet to have a fighter Ive wasted my time with they might have I didnt I learned from every one of them.

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The way I look at it,if they are un-interested in learning the mental aspects of the game(and some are) they are taking time away that I could be concentrating on a fighter who is.
A perfect example,I try to block out a full afternoon evening of training time a week for each fighter,where Im concentrating on nothing but them,so I can garuntee Im not distracted
They need to train 5 or 6 days a week regardless,but I try to make sure I block out a day,thats garunteed to be,just them.
Had a new guy,who kept saying he was coming out,he was coming out,yadda yadda
Hed blow it off every week,now how much time could I have put in to more dedicated fighters,with the time I had blocked out for personal training for that yutz
Sundays too,man I got a family too

I think the most important aspect is the ability to think. In order for that to matter, of course, there has to be a solid fundamental basis. By that I mean balance, punching technique, and a basic understanding of defense. But watching tape, going to the fights, discussing what you are seeing, putting everything into the proper perspective: You never ever ever in a boxing ring do something just to do it. There is always a purpose.
All the stuff about where to hold your hands etc.. will take care of itself, given the proper basis fundamentally and mentally. Each individual will adapt a style that suits them IF they have the proper foundation. I think that, in this age, many guys do things "naturally" (and/or incorrectly/stupidly) because the person that 'taught' them didn't give them the reference points necessary to begin thinking for one's self.
Great post Thomas. I hope this one goes on for awhile.

Its a 2 way thing, you want to giude They want to direct Its who takes who where and why is the good bit

I think that a good experienced trainer or even a teacher for that matter gives their pupil all the tools that they'll need and much of the know how that comes with it. I like the idea of a discussion between the trainer and boxer. If you go back to Athens and take a look at great Greek Philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle and Socrates and it wasn't just them preaching. It was interactive, it was engaging as the students were encourages to ask questions, and more importantly asking the right questions. How to think, creativity, or coming up with the answers on your own should be interactive in itself. In regards to boxing everything there is, including the training, the learning process should become as interactive as possible and this should beyond just a good student/teacher relationship. Teaching them what they need to know, how to observe or what to look for and most importantly how to think on their own, the fighter can then grow. When training on the the various apparatus, and in the ring the fighters should be able observe themselves, their movements, their own thought process's and be able to make their own inferences and adjustments.

So even if God forbid something bad happens to the trainer, the fighter has everything that they need to keep growing. You could say this about a teacher, and even a good parent.

Good habits are learned and so are bad habits. If a mistakes are caught on early then they can be corrected before they reach the bad habit stage. Early on sparring and in training I believe a good coach should be able to point out the mistakes to the beginners and make them become aware of it themselves so that they can can avoid them. So even if you put two beginner boxers in the ring to spar you can caution them about what they're doing wrong and so forth so that the same mistakes are not repeated and therefore the fighter's are not hindered by any bad habits later on.

I think when it comes to the fundamentals the trainer must know it inside and out to be able to teach them properly. Most important thing a fighter can learn right from square one is posture/stance, which will give them balance and efficient movement, and from there the fighter has a good foundation for learning all the various movements.

True that Chris, Ive had guys who have become very rich Chief of Police my favourites are those that have become good coaches. I dont know what went wrong with the one who became a Detective Inspecter, but you cant win them all ;D

Isnt it interesting,everyone who responded have chops in the sport
And we all went straight to the same place
Your mind
I can teach any jackass to throw a punch,but I cant help you think in the ring,unless you work with me and listen

I tried this a minute ago and was pretty happy with it, but the two squirrels and the jackass that run my internet provider had different thoughts.
When I train fighters I like to work with people in one of two categories: very young (4-12 years of age) or those that have been trained by others and have experience.
I like beginners that are young because they listen and don't get bored, if you present it properly. My method begins with a firm foundation in punching technique and balance; there is nothing beyond that without that. That is how I start a fighter evry time. Learn to throw your punches and maintain your balance without walking all over the place. Once you can do that everything is possible. When I work with "older" people learning to box, say, 16, 17, who think they already know how to fight, I either send them to some one else or prove what I am saying. This is simple: I put on the mitts, they put on gloves, and I tell them to punch, alternating left and right, as hard as they can. I let them whale away, stepping, swinging, as they will, while I "punch" back, without moving my feet, just shifting my weight. Inevitably they either get turned sideways or get winded- the "old" man is still strong.
The point I am trying to make is not how strong I am, but how my theory works. Most fighters accept this and we go forward. A lot of "fitness boxers" don't. A lot of people are turned away by my "perfectionism"- OK. I'd feel like shit if I didn't do my best and had to watch them flounder.
Fighters that have experience tend to be suprised by my attention to detail. I am very specific about where to put your feet and when...
This isn't meant to brag. There are many on this site that are far superior to me when it comes to teaching boxing, have more knowledge than I will ever gain. That's just my practice and my thoughts onwhat matter.

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Originally Posted by Chris N.

I think that a good experienced trainer or even a teacher for that matter gives their pupil all the tools that they'll need and much of the know how that comes with it. I like the idea of a discussion between the trainer and boxer. If you go back to Athens and take a look at great Greek Philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle and Socrates and it wasn't just them preaching. It was interactive, it was engaging as the students were encourages to ask questions, and more importantly asking the right questions. How to think, creativity, or coming up with the answers on your own should be interactive in itself. In regards to boxing everything there is, including the training, the learning process should become as interactive as possible and this should beyond just a good student/teacher relationship. Teaching them what they need to know, how to observe or what to look for and most importantly how to think on their own, the fighter can then grow. When training on the the various apparatus, and in the ring the fighters should be able observe themselves, their movements, their own thought process's and be able to make their own inferences and adjustments.

So even if God forbid something bad happens to the trainer, the fighter has everything that they need to keep growing. You could say this about a teacher, and even a good parent.

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good post

Tell how to judge a good coach, The guy who doest try to mend something that isnt broken and succeeds

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Originally Posted by Scrap

Tell how to judge a good coach, The guy who doest try to mend something that isnt broken and succeeds

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:laugh:

I think that there's a feeling of enthusiasm for a lot guys that put on a pair of boxing gloves for the first time and are starting out. Trainers can definately be valuable guide, but things such as patience and figuring out the things on your own, a trainer can't really help you with that. Here's what Jack Sharkey had to say:

"The reason you learn, it isn’t too much from the trainers, it’s from your own eyesight that you notice these fighters, standing around in the gym while you are waiting to go in to box or you are jumping rope or punching the bag, you stop while he’s boxing, you pick up little pointers and these things you try, and this is what, if you go any brains in your head at all, this is what makes fighters improve. And you get so that it’s entirely different and easier than your own style, so this is how a good fighter becomes a great fighter, it’s the fighter himself that can improve and try something."

Now that we are in the days of punch-out drills, punching by numbers and a superabundance of exercises and drills, it's easy for a fighter to get lost in the motions and lose sight of what Sharkey was talking about.

I guess that one way a trainer can really help a fighter develope (and be grow by themselves) is by sitting down and watching fights with them. Just talking with them, of what's going on in a fight. It would be more helpful to be able to watch the fight from the stand point of what it'd be like if you were in the ring. Pick a side, and watch the fight in the eyes of one fighter. All the while asking yourself what the fighter is trying to do, etc. This is all important because this is the kind of eyes that you'll use while watching a fight as well as when you're in one.

Here's interesting account by the great trainer Mannie Seamon on Benny Leonard: "Benny often went into the gym even when he was not training. Because boxing was his life. He said he discovered new moves and tricks by watching the other boxers work out. He was a thorough student of boxing."


Like Sharkey said, it's the kind of thing that makes a good fighter become a great fighter. :)