Just another one of Wacko's Polls. Get it? Wacko's Poll? Heh heh heh. Cal vs Kes

For years many U.S. fight fans have balanced on a thin, tight rope when it comes to their opinions or support of the Welshman that would be the kingpin of the super middleweight division.

This U.S. fan feels that that’s one hell of a huge cop out.

The fact that a vast majority of our U.S. champs face less scrutiny under the same actions has always been a mystery to me. Names like Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather, & countless others get away with it seems beside the point for Calzaghe’s critics.

Another little discrepancy lies in the line of opposition. Many tear apart Joe’s record as if it were made of tissue paper. Many regard Joe’s opponents as if they were the perfect match for the white cotton…I am not one of those many. Joe has faced the same level of opposition as the majority of our champions…the names are just not that recognizable due to the side of the lake that they swim & that’s a bit close minded.

Joe’s beaten names like Reid, Sheika, Salem, Veit, Ashira, Mkrtchian, Jimenez, & the great Eubank…whom most argue wasn’t great when Joe got to him. Utter rubbish. Although many discredit those names now…they were quite impressive when Joe just walked through them. Many fighters took notice as most of the “then” champions either refused to cross the lakes or priced themselves out of the matches. It would seem that Calzaghe could do no right or please pundits & fans alike.

Enter Jeff Lacy.

Coming up Lacy was considered the danger man of 168lbs…& very few would argue. Lacy knocked out 17 of his first 20 opponents & bested the rest quite impressively. There was a stumble here & there…but nothing to get to worried about. Lacy was rising & he was rising fast (far to fast, IWHO) up the ladder of one hundred sixty. Lacy faced & hammered some game opponents & the moment that he grabbed the IBF’s strap in 2004 he began to call out Joe Calzaghe.

When the match was finally made, after countless trips to the bartering table, many were of the opinion that Calzaghe would all but hand Lacy the title once they were toe to toe. Just the opposite occurred. Lacy traded home court advantage, his IBF title, his reputation, & the majority of his “danger man” image to Calzaghe for the fight of life…which is just what Joe gave him.

It’s become ancient lore now…the story of Joe man handling Lacy has been pushed to the back burner. Lacy has been discounted as a meagerly talented bum & Joe is still being critiqued by his detractors as a pity-pat puncher that’s been cared for like fine china his entire run.

Both of the above accusations are utter trash & any boxing fan worth his salts can should be able to get past their bias & admit that…but they won’t & here we are…another one of Wacko’s long drawn out diatribes.

So let me get to my point…& questions.

Will Mikkel Kessler fall to the same fate if he loses to Joe in near or like fashion?
If the opposite were to happen & Kessler handles Joe…will Joe then be dismissed?

Just curious what your thoughts were.

Mine are short & sweet concerning the Dane. If there is a foil out there for Joe Calzaghe I believe that it can be only one of two men…Kessler or Hopkins.

I won’t get into the Hopkins debate because it’s an old one…but Kessler…it’s still fresh cut & waiting on the table.

Kessler has the age, power, & abilities to cause Joe all sorts of issues. While I am a dyed in the wool Calzaghe fan…I’m just as big of a Kessler fan…so it’s hard for me to pick a winner with my heart or my head…but I truly believe that Calzaghe has the better shot down the stretch.

Kessler’s footwork could cause Joe issues…if Kessler can get his feet to work against someone as quick & awkward as Joe. Joe throws punches from all angles & is constantly working his feet. I have a feeling that down the stretch of 12 this is what will benefit Joe the most. Joe has never punched himself out & this is something that Kess needs to remember.

Kessler needs to come on & come on hard…& he can do it…but he can also box.

I just honestly feel that the speed is going to be the bigger factor in the fight.

Here’s hoping that I’m wrong.

I want a fight. I want to see a contest for Joe & I want to see Kessler prove himself…which I think he can if he keeps his head.

Your thoughts?

Personally...I think that everyone's disregarding Kessler & looking for another Joe C blowout ala the Lacy fight. I just don't see it...so I voted Calzaghe by a hard fought decision.

I say that Kess gives Joe some issues with size & footwork & what not...also...Kessler has a defense where Lacy did not.

I've missed you pre fight analysis Mr Wacko ;)

Personally I think this will be a tough hard fight. Kessler is a more acomplished boxer than Lacy as evidenced by the boxing lesson he handed out to the highly rated Librado Andrade.

He beat a somewhat Green Mundine in Oz and destroyed Marcus Beyer so it's clear he's no pushover.

I'd say Andrade, Mundine and Beyer are better names than any on Lacy's record but obviously Kessler is not an American so most causual fans will not have heard much about him.

I think as long as Calzaghes hands hold up he can beat Kessle through speed and sheer workrate.

Kessler is a strong boy but not a huge puncher and this will most likely go to the cards and it's difficualt to envision Joe losing on points, he's one of the most active and relentless fighters out there.

We know he can go for 12 rounds at a rate of 100 punches a round. Stamina is not an issue.

Whilst Kessler has looked impressive we've yet to see him really tested and and so can't say with certainty how he will respond to Calzaghe's nonstop pressure.

I think Calzaghe is too fast, too experienced and too wiley for Kessler at this stage of their careers. Kess can still be the future of this division but as long as age hasn't caught up with overnight Calzaghe is still the best 168 lb fighter out there and I believe he will prove it come fight night.

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I think that everyone's disregarding Kessler & looking for another Joe C blowout ala the Lacy fight. I just don't see it...so I voted Calzaghe by a hard fought decision.

I say that Kess gives Joe some issues with size & footwork & what not...also...Kessler has a defense where Lacy did not.

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Not me i reckon 100 percent Calzaghe would win ud but thing is Wacko is that im worried about Calzaghe's hands but if we are talking 100 percent Calzaghe he is bit too quick and too much workrate for Kessler winning a ud 115-113 115-113 116-112.

I voted for "Calzaghe by a hard fought decision" his last win with Gomez was caused by premature stoppage.

I think Joe will going to outbox and avoid Kessler's bombs at the same time.

Calzaghe is one quick mofo.

I reckon Calzaghe gets the UD....but I think it will be close. Joe is no spring chicken and a younger, more hungry Kessler has a great chance.

I voted Kessler by hard fought decision. I think he has the style to beat Joe if he keeps on the outside. I see Joe trying to pressure with his volume punching, but Kessler is too smart for that, he showed a nice blueprint in the Andrade fight. He has a good jab , Calzaghe isnt going to just waltz right in. Its gonna be a good fight, and can I finally give Joe C. some props for manning up ;) but I still think he loses ;D

Whats with the flip flopping Wacko? I thought you were backing Kessler. ;D

As much as I want to say Joe Calzaghe by landslide, I just can't see any way possible that this is going to be another Lacy. That will have been over 18 months ago by the time he gets in the ring with Kessler, and with the body clock ticking along relentlessly, the question whether that will have an impact on the shape Joe can get himself into.

The divisions where fighters can defy time tend to be among the bigger guys where speed is not an issue, but if Joe does turn up at 100%, then I think that he can outwork Kessler from the kinds of angles and frequency that Kessler has never faced before. The success of Calzaghe's movement and evasiveness whilst throwing oodles of punches will be the key for this fight I feel, and I have voted for a Hard fought Calzaghe decision as the result, but if Calzaghe fights to his best, Kessler's stamina might fail him as he continually fails to land, and might get stopped late on.

Damn, I don't know. I can see a flash knockdown for Kessler, Joe getting his ego in the way and trading a little, but ultimately I still see him winning. And either way, I see myself being rather drunk whilst at the stadium, praying that my VCR is going to record the damn thing properly.

I pick Kessler

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Originally Posted by No Contest

Whats with the flip flopping Wacko? I thought you were backing Kessler. ;D

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No flip flopping dawgy.

I've always said that I thought Kess had the goods to beat Joe...but having the goods & being able to use them...two totally different things.

Kessler aint gonna be fighting home...Joe is.

Correct?

Makes a diff if you ask me. I'm sure that there'll be a buncha Danes up in the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, Wales...but it's still just that...Wales. Joe tends to go apeshit when challenged in his backyard.

But that's just one of many variables.

I just see Joe's speed being a capper.

As I said...Kess or Hopkins...& those are the two that I can see besting Joe...but it'll be tuff.

This is going to an absolutely amazing fight. When I play match ups in my head, this one seems to have limitless potential. Of all the great match ups there has been this year I can't think of one that better than this. This is as 'pick em' as it gets folks.

:coolclick: cheers Wacko for the great rundown, although it only makes it even harder to wait for Nov 3rd!

I think Calzaghe gets knocked down a couple of times but outboxes Kessler for the majority of the fight. This one ones to the cards with Kessler winning a Unanimous decision cause of the 10-8 rounds and his winning the early rounds. Should be good fight.

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Originally Posted by 'Big' Dan McCarthy

This is going to an absolutely amazing fight. When I play match ups in my head, this one seems to have limitless potential. Of all the great match ups there has been this year I can't think of one that better than this. This is as 'pick em' as it gets folks.

:coolclick: cheers Wacko for the great rundown, although it only makes it even harder to wait for Nov 3rd!

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:coolclick: right back...& I agree...this is going to be an amazing match.

I have no clue who pulls it out...but I lean towards Joe...& that's hard because I'm a fan of Kess also.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I think Calzaghe gets knocked down a couple of times but outboxes Kessler for the majority of the fight. This one ones to the cards with Kessler winning a Unanimous decision cause of the 10-8 rounds and his winning the early rounds. Should be good fight.

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Honestly...I'd like to see a few drops. A good scrap never hurt anyone...but I agree...Joe's gonna put the heat on him.

:coolclick:

I say Joe by late KO but definately a great and entertaining fight! :laugh:

I see a De La Hoya-Trinidad type situation. I think Kessler surprises everybody by taking the fight to Calzaghe and getting the better of it for most of the rounds. Only to see the decision go to the home town fighter.

I think Joe's hands will come into play again, its happened last three fights? Dont know how much of a factor that will be for Joe but I can see him breaking his hand on Kesslers elbows because hes got a good guard and he keeps it up. Kessler is still pretty unknown to me though ...I have seen about 3 of his fights in full, then some highlights. Kesslers chin is in question still with me since Andrade didnt get many shots in on Kessler...Andrade is no slouch either.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...38269.html#new

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by wacko3205

Personally...I think that everyone's disregarding Kessler & looking for another Joe C blowout ala the Lacy fight. I just don't see it...so I voted Calzaghe by a hard fought decision.

I say that Kess gives Joe some issues with size & footwork & what not...also...Kessler has a defense where Lacy did not.

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Not me i reckon 100 percent Calzaghe would win ud but thing is Wacko is that im worried about Calzaghe's hands but if we are talking 100 percent Calzaghe he is bit too quick and too much workrate for Kessler winning a ud 115-113 115-113 116-112.

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I see a UD too. My prediction is that the cards will be a bit wider though. Not a landslide by any means.

I have Calzaghe by hard fought decision. I admit that I don't know much about Kessler other than reviewing his record and seeing the Andrade fight, but from what I can tell, Calzaghe's pressure tactics along with hand speed and punch output should win him the fight.

I honestly think joes speed will not be a big problem for Kessler. Mundine is as fast if not faster than Joe and he dealt with him easily. I think Joes work rate and angles are a bigger problem than speed.

I refuse, to vote in a poll where an option is hometown robbery, and have Kessler by landslide instead. >:mad

WTF? >:mad

I ask, NO!
I demand an equal voting poll.
Until I refuse to vote. >:mad



















































*For the record I voted Kessler by points. 8)

Voted a hard fought calzaghe win.
The hard fought element could be amplified by hand worries but i see the main problem being the deliberate forward march of kessler.
Mikkel will not back off when hit with smaller punches, he will need to be forced, can calzaghe risk this and if he doesn't will he find himself under huge pressure. I can see it unfolding as Calzaghe Eubank did, but without the early knockdown. So for the first time i am curious as to whether calzaghes age will come into effect?????

I went for "home town robbery of sorts"

I wouldn't be at all shocked to see Terry O'Connor referee and stop the fight prematurely like delivering a 3 month old foetus.

I just have a feeling that this fight will have a controversial ending that will not give us a true answer to who the best man at 168lbs is. It's just starting to feel like a permanent unanswered question.

Terry does tend to stop fights early, but if either guys has the ability to merit a stoppage win over the opponent even on a technicality id be pretty convinced he'd be the top guy.

However the only way i can see a stoppage in this fight is from A kessler vantage point. Joe is unlikely to ko kessler imo.

Brilliant analysis Wacko and nice to hear someone speak up Joes side, I read in the press at the time of the Lacy fight that Joe would be facing a cross between Hollyfield and Tyson at there best...

And to be honest, having watched a hell of a lot of Joe and a little Lacy, I COULD NOT SEE THE THREAT AT ALL...

Joe is as hard as they come and can fight the fight with anyone out there......or box a master class...

So for me in the Kessler fight Joe's hardness, and do not under estimate that, combined with excellent boxing ability, and phenomenal hand and foot speed, as well as being able to punch from angles that are as yet undiscovered by man see's him blasting Kessler into points oblivion...

A well boxed and fought big points decision for Joe, I was ringside for the Lacy fight (got lucky there eh) and he was blurring in speed and pain full in his slaps...hard as nails when he needed.

From the first round he'd chose a tactic that meant he would meet Lacy head on ...and he did in so in such style too...

But then to the press and so on was Joe that good then, Naaaaaa just Lacy an over hyped puncher, errrrrr that could not punch....according to Joe that is...(did anyone here the US commentary on that one when Joe goes Back to the corner at the end of the second I think it was and said to his dad, he cant punch shit, hes got f**k all)..

Yeah i heard that, funny as hell!

Calzaghe by a hard fought UD.Think Calzaghes work rate will win it for him,he shades alot of close rounds with his work rate alone thats gonna be the main factor in this fight i recon.

i say joe by decision

This is a fight where i really don't know who to pick.....joe's hand issues and how much he slaps make me want to lean towards kessler but then there's the lacy fight where i felt he was gonna get whoooped and we see how that turned out, kessler has constantly impressed me although i'm not sure if it's been against the same level of comp that joe's been in with, i'm right in the middle with this one.....

;D

CC Skel thats fair cool!

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Originally Posted by skel1983

;D

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How come Kessler is choking Mayweather? ;D

Im going for Calzaghe tko, I won't be surprized if he goes down himself at one point
but I think he'll rise to the occasion and stop Kessler late on

Wow I didnt know Kessler had 2 right hands... ::**

I think there are just so many factors coming into this fight to be able to properly call...

I know people talk about kessler style and what not, but i don't think it's his style that will cause calzaghe any real trouble, he has beaten taller fighers, and guys who fight like kessler before... and the style seemed to play into joes hands...

The main things i would bring into questions is of course calzaghes hands...

Will they hold up? we all know his hands are dodgy and seem to be getting worse every fight, it seems almost imposible for joe to go through a fight without hurting them or adleast one... if he badly hurts his hand early on that will be major problem for him...

Is he as great as he was? In his last two fights his timing has seemed to be off a fair bit, something he will need to have perfect to beat a guy with kesslers style... Anyone who has followed Joe knows that when he is frustrated by being in the ring with lesser fighters he can get a bit sloppy and fight to their level, but has this been the case in his last few fights though? Calzaghe has barley sparred in years, he has been a little more active of late, but had a fair lay off after lacy, i doubt he sparred with any realy intenet during that lay off or the bika build up, shit he hardly sparred before lacy, the manfredo fight was to short for him to really shake off any rust or keep sharp from - the lack of out of fight ring time could really be a factor and affect his timing coming into this...

Joe's power, most will agree in his younger days before the real hand problems he hit extremlly hard, as an amature the doctor told he he would never turn pro due to him hitting to hard for his size... hence the problems... but now at this point of his career with young tought hard hitting hungry fighter, his lack of power could be again agasint him, if he has little to throw to hurt kessler i don't know if joe will be able to stay on the back foot for the night and box like that, he likes to mix it up alot, but without the power i could cost him...

As for kessler, i don't really see anything amazingly special about him. he is a very very good boxer, puts his punches together well, moves well and has a nice jab. There seems to be power behinde his punches although i think its been blown up a bit, as for his chin, well i havn't really seen it be tested so i can't honestly form a opinion on it yet, as of yet its seems sturdy.

But the thing is, this can be one of those fights where the young lion sees his change at dethroning the aging alpha male... calzaghe is getting on, he is still world class, but quit a few years past his prime IMO... Guys like kessler often view these sort of opitunites as a once in a life time chance and often put on a display they will never be able to match again due to the magnitue of such an ocasion... and this is something that could really favour kessler...

With all that said and done, i will have to pick calzaghe by a UD, maybe maybe a slim slim chance of a late TKO... i know kessler is no lacy style wise, but as of yet i have never seen kesslers chin or heart be truly tested... a lot of people take a shot at lacy and slag him off, but fuck me did that boy show unbelieveable heart and chin in that fight to take what he did and keep going...

if done right and joes stays on the outside early, is able to raise his game for a fight like this i would expect him to confuse and frustrate kessler early on picking up the early rounds and with minimal damage to his own hands. as the fight goes on and the rounds in the bag i would expect calzaghe to open up a bit more, become a lil mroe creative and kessler starting to force things and become more hittable and suseptable for combos and clean hits...

Depending how joes hands hold up and how much power he really has lost i would expect calzaghe to finish by a UD, not one sided, but not to close either, if he picks his punches right and doesnt get carried away i see no real reason why he doesn't maybe put on a late showing and finish him off in the very late rounds... i know kessler has looked fit, but ho fit exactly? its one thing when your jabbing your way to a UD, another when your getting hit all night long and trying to throw back...

I think this fight is pretty simple to analyze. Kessler will not win a decision unless he CLEARLY wins the fight.. we've seen how the refs and judges treat Joe and that cannot be overlooked while speculating the winner of this fight.. So i feel Kessler has to knock Joe out, and i think he can do it, but he needs to throw a lot of combos. So it will either be a KO/TKO for Kessler, or a UD/SD possibly controversial for JC.. i don't see Calzaghe dreaming of knocking Kessler out unless he gets a controversial TKO by premature stoppage like the Manfredo fight.. After watching the Manfredo fight, if i was Kessler i'd make sure i was able to take a ref with me, or at least someone whos not from Joe's home grounds.

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Originally Posted by RP33

I think this fight is pretty simple to analyze. Kessler will not win a decision unless he CLEARLY wins the fight.. we've seen how the refs and judges treat Joe and that cannot be overlooked while speculating the winner of this fight.. So i feel Kessler has to knock Joe out, and i think he can do it, but he needs to throw a lot of combos. So it will either be a KO/TKO for Kessler, or a UD/SD possibly controversial for JC.. i don't see Calzaghe dreaming of knocking Kessler out unless he gets a controversial TKO by premature stoppage like the Manfredo fight.. After watching the Manfredo fight, if i was Kessler i'd make sure i was able to take a ref with me, or at least someone whos not from Joe's home grounds.

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when has Joe needed help from the judges?

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Originally Posted by ~Phil~

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Originally Posted by RP33

I think this fight is pretty simple to analyze. Kessler will not win a decision unless he CLEARLY wins the fight.. we've seen how the refs and judges treat Joe and that cannot be overlooked while speculating the winner of this fight.. So i feel Kessler has to knock Joe out, and i think he can do it, but he needs to throw a lot of combos. So it will either be a KO/TKO for Kessler, or a UD/SD possibly controversial for JC.. i don't see Calzaghe dreaming of knocking Kessler out unless he gets a controversial TKO by premature stoppage like the Manfredo fight.. After watching the Manfredo fight, if i was Kessler i'd make sure i was able to take a ref with me, or at least someone whos not from Joe's home grounds.

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when has Joe needed help from the judges?

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Joe don´t need the help, but he sure got it a couple of times. Thats part the home advantage. I don´t complain and neither should Kessler since he went for the money instead and gave up his home advantage in order to make a better profit. Still think he can finish Calzaghe before time. All the pressure is on Calzaghe again he is the favorite and Kessler like to keep the distance and counter. I think Calzaghe is open for business 8) and good night to the Welshman.

If Joe pull out another Lacy display then I will salute him at the greatest in 168. And he should move up since I don´t see any real natural contenders in the division ( the same goes for Kessler)

I can hardly wait for the 3 November, and my national football team is crap at the moment. So Kessler have to save the Danish honor :banllama:

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Originally Posted by ~Phil~

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Originally Posted by RP33

I think this fight is pretty simple to analyze. Kessler will not win a decision unless he CLEARLY wins the fight.. we\'ve seen how the refs and judges treat Joe and that cannot be overlooked while speculating the winner of this fight.. So i feel Kessler has to knock Joe out, and i think he can do it, but he needs to throw a lot of combos. So it will either be a KO/TKO for Kessler, or a UD/SD possibly controversial for JC.. i don\'t see Calzaghe dreaming of knocking Kessler out unless he gets a controversial TKO by premature stoppage like the Manfredo fight.. After watching the Manfredo fight, if i was Kessler i\'d make sure i was able to take a ref with me, or at least someone whos not from Joe\'s home grounds.

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when has Joe needed help from the judges?

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A lot of people would say in the Robin Reid fight